Re: [sig-policy] New Version of prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB
Yeah I think this is a bit of a radical proposal to accept at present. I'm not convinced we should be supporting CGN in this way, nor am I a fan of seeing more and more information make it into Whois which might not be the best place. I would like to hear more from Hiromi-san about the problem statement and how this might be solved, but I'm not at all sure I would support the current proposal. Would it be possible to withdraw the proposal and use the scheduled time during the Policy Sig for an informational session to allow Hiromi-san to present to the community the problem here? Dean -- Dean Pemberton Technical Policy Advisor InternetNZ +64 21 920 363 (mob) d...@internetnz.net.nz To promote the Internet's benefits and uses, and protect its potential. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 6:11 AM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: I don’t believe the proposal offers enough benefit to be worth what implementation would likely cost. First, I am sincerely hoping that CGN is an extremely temporary situation. I’m not sure it should be worth the effort to recode the registry to support it. Second, I’m wondering if there’s any real advantage to having this level of detail on residential subscribers that don’t even get full addresses, since we don’t really tend to have it for single-address subscribers now. IMHO, best to just let each ISP keep this information for themselves as the relevant contact for abuse and such is usually the ISP and not the residential user anyway. Owen On Feb 23, 2015, at 10:53 , Masato Yamanishi myama...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Colleagues, And, here is prop-115. No comment has not been made for this proposal. If reached consensus, it may needs significant change for whois database. I just reviewed implementation impact assessment by the Secretariat, and it says it might take more than 6 months. I think same thing will happen for whois database of each NIRs. And if your company have a system linked with APNIC/NIR whois database, it will be impacted also. As Chair, I'm always very neutral for each proposal, including prop-115. However, I would like to emphasis prop-115 should be discussed more widely as it has wide impact. It is very appreciated if you will express your views. Regards, Masato Yamanishi, Policy SIG Chair (Acting) 2015-02-04 14:52 GMT-06:00 Masato Yamanishi myama...@gmail.com: Dear SIG members The Problem statement Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB has been assigned a Policy Proposal number following the submission of a new version sent to the Policy SIG for consideration. The proposal, prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB now includes an objective and proposed solution. Information about this and earlier versions is available from: http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-115 You are encouraged you to express your views on the proposal: - Do you support or oppose this proposal? - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation. - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective? Regards, Masato prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB Proposer: Ruri Hiromi hir...@inetcore.com Tomohiro Fujisaki fujis...@syce.net 1. Problem statement Recently, there are some cases need to get IP address assignment information in more detail to specify user IP address. With out this information, operators cannot filter out specific address range, and it might lead to 'over-filter' (i.e. filtering whole ISP's address range). For example: 1) 'Port' range information in IPv4 ISPs are using 'CGN' or other kinds of IPv4 address sharing technology with assignment of IP address and specified port range to their users. In this case, port information is necessary to specify one user. ex) 192.0.2.24/32 1-256 is for HomeA 192.0.2.24/32 257-511 is for HomeB or 192.0.2.0/24 1-65536 is shared address of ISP-X minimum size is /32 2) address assignment size information in IPv6 The IPv6 address assignment size may be different from ISP to ISP, and address ranges in one ISP. Address assignment prefix size will be necessary. ex) 2001:db8:1::0/56 is for HomeA 2001:db8:1:1::0/48 is for HomeB or 2001:db8:1::/36's minimum size is /56 2. Objective of policy change - Lots of operators look a record
Re: [sig-policy] New Version of prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB
I look forward to hearing more from the author. At present I do not support this proposal. On Wednesday, 25 February 2015, Masato Yamanishi myama...@gmail.com wrote: Dean, I totally agree that we should focus on the problem statement itself in Fukuoka since this problem statement has something new concept for Policy SIG and Fukuoka will be first meeting. However, I don't think this proposal needs to be withdrawn to focus on the problem statement in Fukuoka. Certainly, in past meeting, we made it clear that we can discuss problem statement only presentation first, but that is optional. Regards, Masato 2015-02-24 14:41 GMT-06:00 Dean Pemberton d...@internetnz.net.nz javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','d...@internetnz.net.nz');: Yeah I think this is a bit of a radical proposal to accept at present. I'm not convinced we should be supporting CGN in this way, nor am I a fan of seeing more and more information make it into Whois which might not be the best place. I would like to hear more from Hiromi-san about the problem statement and how this might be solved, but I'm not at all sure I would support the current proposal. Would it be possible to withdraw the proposal and use the scheduled time during the Policy Sig for an informational session to allow Hiromi-san to present to the community the problem here? Dean -- Dean Pemberton Technical Policy Advisor InternetNZ +64 21 920 363 (mob) d...@internetnz.net.nz javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','d...@internetnz.net.nz'); To promote the Internet's benefits and uses, and protect its potential. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 6:11 AM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','o...@delong.com'); wrote: I don’t believe the proposal offers enough benefit to be worth what implementation would likely cost. First, I am sincerely hoping that CGN is an extremely temporary situation. I’m not sure it should be worth the effort to recode the registry to support it. Second, I’m wondering if there’s any real advantage to having this level of detail on residential subscribers that don’t even get full addresses, since we don’t really tend to have it for single-address subscribers now. IMHO, best to just let each ISP keep this information for themselves as the relevant contact for abuse and such is usually the ISP and not the residential user anyway. Owen On Feb 23, 2015, at 10:53 , Masato Yamanishi myama...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','myama...@gmail.com'); wrote: Dear Colleagues, And, here is prop-115. No comment has not been made for this proposal. If reached consensus, it may needs significant change for whois database. I just reviewed implementation impact assessment by the Secretariat, and it says it might take more than 6 months. I think same thing will happen for whois database of each NIRs. And if your company have a system linked with APNIC/NIR whois database, it will be impacted also. As Chair, I'm always very neutral for each proposal, including prop-115. However, I would like to emphasis prop-115 should be discussed more widely as it has wide impact. It is very appreciated if you will express your views. Regards, Masato Yamanishi, Policy SIG Chair (Acting) 2015-02-04 14:52 GMT-06:00 Masato Yamanishi myama...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','myama...@gmail.com');: Dear SIG members The Problem statement Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB has been assigned a Policy Proposal number following the submission of a new version sent to the Policy SIG for consideration. The proposal, prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB now includes an objective and proposed solution. Information about this and earlier versions is available from: http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-115 You are encouraged you to express your views on the proposal: - Do you support or oppose this proposal? - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation. - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective? Regards, Masato prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB Proposer: Ruri Hiromi hir...@inetcore.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','hir...@inetcore.com'); Tomohiro Fujisaki fujis...@syce.net javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','fujis...@syce.net'); 1. Problem statement Recently, there are some cases need to get IP address assignment
Re: [sig-policy] New Version of prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB
Dean, I totally agree that we should focus on the problem statement itself in Fukuoka since this problem statement has something new concept for Policy SIG and Fukuoka will be first meeting. However, I don't think this proposal needs to be withdrawn to focus on the problem statement in Fukuoka. Certainly, in past meeting, we made it clear that we can discuss problem statement only presentation first, but that is optional. Regards, Masato 2015-02-24 14:41 GMT-06:00 Dean Pemberton d...@internetnz.net.nz: Yeah I think this is a bit of a radical proposal to accept at present. I'm not convinced we should be supporting CGN in this way, nor am I a fan of seeing more and more information make it into Whois which might not be the best place. I would like to hear more from Hiromi-san about the problem statement and how this might be solved, but I'm not at all sure I would support the current proposal. Would it be possible to withdraw the proposal and use the scheduled time during the Policy Sig for an informational session to allow Hiromi-san to present to the community the problem here? Dean -- Dean Pemberton Technical Policy Advisor InternetNZ +64 21 920 363 (mob) d...@internetnz.net.nz To promote the Internet's benefits and uses, and protect its potential. On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 6:11 AM, Owen DeLong o...@delong.com wrote: I don’t believe the proposal offers enough benefit to be worth what implementation would likely cost. First, I am sincerely hoping that CGN is an extremely temporary situation. I’m not sure it should be worth the effort to recode the registry to support it. Second, I’m wondering if there’s any real advantage to having this level of detail on residential subscribers that don’t even get full addresses, since we don’t really tend to have it for single-address subscribers now. IMHO, best to just let each ISP keep this information for themselves as the relevant contact for abuse and such is usually the ISP and not the residential user anyway. Owen On Feb 23, 2015, at 10:53 , Masato Yamanishi myama...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Colleagues, And, here is prop-115. No comment has not been made for this proposal. If reached consensus, it may needs significant change for whois database. I just reviewed implementation impact assessment by the Secretariat, and it says it might take more than 6 months. I think same thing will happen for whois database of each NIRs. And if your company have a system linked with APNIC/NIR whois database, it will be impacted also. As Chair, I'm always very neutral for each proposal, including prop-115. However, I would like to emphasis prop-115 should be discussed more widely as it has wide impact. It is very appreciated if you will express your views. Regards, Masato Yamanishi, Policy SIG Chair (Acting) 2015-02-04 14:52 GMT-06:00 Masato Yamanishi myama...@gmail.com: Dear SIG members The Problem statement Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB has been assigned a Policy Proposal number following the submission of a new version sent to the Policy SIG for consideration. The proposal, prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB now includes an objective and proposed solution. Information about this and earlier versions is available from: http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-115 You are encouraged you to express your views on the proposal: - Do you support or oppose this proposal? - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation. - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective? Regards, Masato prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB Proposer: Ruri Hiromi hir...@inetcore.com Tomohiro Fujisaki fujis...@syce.net 1. Problem statement Recently, there are some cases need to get IP address assignment information in more detail to specify user IP address. With out this information, operators cannot filter out specific address range, and it might lead to 'over-filter' (i.e. filtering whole ISP's address range). For example: 1) 'Port' range information in IPv4 ISPs are using 'CGN' or other kinds of IPv4 address sharing technology with assignment of IP address and specified port range to their users. In this case, port information is necessary to specify one user.
Re: [sig-policy] New Version of prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB
Dear Colleagues, And, here is prop-115. No comment has not been made for this proposal. If reached consensus, it may needs significant change for whois database. I just reviewed implementation impact assessment by the Secretariat, and it says it might take more than 6 months. I think same thing will happen for whois database of each NIRs. And if your company have a system linked with APNIC/NIR whois database, it will be impacted also. As Chair, I'm always very neutral for each proposal, including prop-115. However, I would like to emphasis prop-115 should be discussed more widely as it has wide impact. It is very appreciated if you will express your views. Regards, Masato Yamanishi, Policy SIG Chair (Acting) 2015-02-04 14:52 GMT-06:00 Masato Yamanishi myama...@gmail.com: Dear SIG members The Problem statement Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB has been assigned a Policy Proposal number following the submission of a new version sent to the Policy SIG for consideration. The proposal, prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB now includes an objective and proposed solution. Information about this and earlier versions is available from: http://www.apnic.net/policy/proposals/prop-115 You are encouraged you to express your views on the proposal: - Do you support or oppose this proposal? - Does this proposal solve a problem you are experiencing? If so, tell the community about your situation. - Do you see any disadvantages in this proposal? - Is there anything in the proposal that is not clear? - What changes could be made to this proposal to make it more effective? Regards, Masato prop-115-v001: Registration of detailed assignment information in whois DB Proposer: Ruri Hiromi hir...@inetcore.com Tomohiro Fujisaki fujis...@syce.net 1. Problem statement Recently, there are some cases need to get IP address assignment information in more detail to specify user IP address. With out this information, operators cannot filter out specific address range, and it might lead to 'over-filter' (i.e. filtering whole ISP's address range). For example: 1) 'Port' range information in IPv4 ISPs are using 'CGN' or other kinds of IPv4 address sharing technology with assignment of IP address and specified port range to their users. In this case, port information is necessary to specify one user. ex) 192.0.2.24/32 1-256 is for HomeA 192.0.2.24/32 257-511 is for HomeB or 192.0.2.0/24 1-65536 is shared address of ISP-X minimum size is /32 2) address assignment size information in IPv6 The IPv6 address assignment size may be different from ISP to ISP, and address ranges in one ISP. Address assignment prefix size will be necessary. ex) 2001:db8:1::0/56 is for HomeA 2001:db8:1:1::0/48 is for HomeB or 2001:db8:1::/36's minimum size is /56 2. Objective of policy change - Lots of operators look a record when harmful behavior coming to their network to identify its IP address confirming it can be filtered or not. The goal is providing more specific information to support these actions. 3. Situation in other regions - No same regulation/discussion can be seen in other regions. 4. Proposed policy solution --- Provide accurate filtering information generated from whois DB. For IPv4, propose to add 'port range' information to IP address entry. For IPv6, propose to provide 'assignment prefix size' information for specific IPv6 address. 5. Advantages / Disadvantages - Advantages: - operators can set filtering by IP address based on correct assignment information base. - users who share same address space can be avoid to be including bulk filtering. Disadvantages: - registration rule will move to more strict manner. - strict watch and control in registration of database records. - additional record or option will be considered. - privilege for withdrawing detailed information will be set for these records. 6. Impact on APNIC -- This might be beyond the scope of using whois DB. 7. Other Consideration -- For the security reason, this detailed records may be able to see only by operators.(some kind of user control/privilege setting is needed) For hosting services, /32 in IPv4 and /128 in IPv6 registration should be discussed based
