Re: [silk] Why My Father Hated India
Hello, This theme has been regurgitated in far too many fora, on the Net and off it. IMHO, it is not worthy of the intellectual horsepower of silk-listers. Salman Taseer, probably said what he did for public consumption. Its difficult for a Pakistani politician to get elected unless he says unpleasant things about India. As the elections approach in Pakistan, there will be more such occasions where even the Oxbridge set falls to this. The Urdu and Punjabi media will be worse. We need to focus more on what is happening rather that what abuses are being hurled and by who. Best regards, -- Madhav Pai
Re: [silk] Thief in the night
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 6:38 AM, Udhay Shankar N ud...@pobox.com wrote: On 7/17/2011 10:36 AM, Julian Philips wrote: Sidin, Very touching article. http://www.livemint.com/2011/07/15204615/Thief-in-the-night.html?h=D Not sure why Julian's post was in the Mumbai Blasts thread, but agree, great piece. Reminds me of the standard NRI line: we'll move back to India in two years. Anecdotally, have seen this with various friends and relatives over the past few decades. Udhay Thank you.
Re: [silk] the magic about copyright is that you can extend it indefinitely
On Mon, Dec 31, 2007 at 11:25 AM, Deepa Mohan mohande...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 31, 2007 10:09 PM, Thaths tha...@gmail.com wrote: You know, I was wondering the same thing myself. Zahi seems to be the darling of Western media covering Egyptology. I will never forget the hooha that accompanied the opening of the sealed chamber in the Khufu pyramid, some years ago. Zahi organized the event to be telecast live on NatGeo (I think).The build-up went on for weeks, with Zahi talking about various treasures and incredible mysteries being solve, all before the event, and a hole was drilled in the seal and a small camera-laden robot inserted...and lo and behold, it showed...another wall a few centimetres beyond. Zahi Hawass's last name, split down the middle, did seem somewhat appropriate at that moment! http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ijBtFZ08OmsLpDoUeg-YSLO-p1Sg?docId=036d849b7eed4fd4ab3516b948a1f7ad Egypt's iconic antiquities chief fired By SARAH EL DEEB, Associated Press – 15 hours ago CAIRO (AP) — Egypt's antiquities minister, whose trademark Indiana Jones hat made him one the country's best known figures around the world, was fired Sunday after months of pressure from critics who attacked his credibility and accused him of having been too close to the regime of ousted President Hosni Mubarak. Zahi Hawass, long chided as publicity loving and short on scientific knowledge, lost his job along with about a dozen other ministers in a Cabinet reshuffle meant to ease pressure from protesters seeking to purge remnants of Mubarak's regime. He was the Mubarak of antiquities, said Nora Shalaby, an activist and archaeologist. He acted as if he owned Egypt's antiquities, and not that they belonged to the people of Egypt. Despite the criticism, he was credited with helping boost interest in archaeology in Egypt and tourism, a pillar of the country's economy. But after Mubarak's ouster on Feb. 11 in a popular uprising, pressure began to build for him to step down. Hawass was among a list of Cabinet ministers protesters wanted to see gone because they were associated with the former regime. And archaeology students and professors blasted him for what they saw as his lack of serious research. Shalaby said Hawass didn't tolerate criticism. She said most his finds were about self-promotion, with many rediscoveries in search of the limelight. Hawass prided himself in being the keeper and guardian of Egypt's heritage. He told an Egyptian lifestyle magazine, Enigma, in 2009 that George Lucas, the maker of the Indian Jones films, had come to visit him in Egypt to meet the real Indiana Jones. Hawass, 64, started out as an inspector of antiquities in 1969 and rose to become one of the most recognizable names in Egyptology. He became the general director of antiquities at the Giza plateau in the late 1980s, before being named Egypt's top archaeologist in 2002. In one of Mubarak's final official acts as president, Hawass' position was elevated to that of a Cabinet minister. After Mubarak's ouster, Hawass submitted his resignation but he was reinstated before finally being removed Sunday. His name has been associated with most new archaeological digs in Egypt, with grand discoveries such as the excavation of the Valley of the Golden Mummies in Bahariya Oasis in 1999 and the discovery of the mummy of Egypt's Queen Hatshepsut almost a decade later. He was also a staple on the Discovery Channel, which accompanied him on the find of Hatshepsut's mummy. He started his own reality show on the History Channel called Chasing the Mummies. The channel introduces him as the man behind the mummies. Hawass has long campaigned to bring home ancient artifacts spirited out of the country during colonial times. He said since he became top archaeologist, he managed to recover 5,000 artifacts. In January, just before anti-government protests erupted, he formally requested the return of the 3,300-year-old bust of Queen Nefertiti that has been in a Berlin museum for decades. Hawass also had a fashion line, including his hat, for which he organized a photo-shoot in the Egyptian Museum, something that drew the ire of many archeologists. He was a personality created by the media, said Abdel-Halim Abdel-Nour, the president of the Association of Egyptian Archeologists. He said many campaigned for Hawass's removal, including on Facebook and in Tahrir Square, the center of Egypt's protests. Just before news of his departure, Hawass was heckled near his office Sunday as he left on foot. Protesters tried to block his way, until he jumped into a taxi to get away from the melee, the taxi driver, Mohammed Abdu, said. Hawass was replaced by Abdel-Fattah el-Banna, an associate professor in restoration. He was frequently present in Tahrir Square during the protests. -- Marge: Quick, somebody perform CPR! Homer: Umm (singing) I see a bad moon rising. Marge: That's CCR! Homer: Looks like we're in for nasty weather. Sudhakar
Re: [silk] Why My Father Hated India
On Monday 18 Jul 2011 2:37:20 pm M.K.Pai wrote: Salman Taseer, probably said what he did for public consumption. Its difficult for a Pakistani politician to get elected unless he says unpleasant things about India. My My! That is odd isn't it? Why would a politican in Pakistan have to say unpleasant things about India to get elected? Does that translate to the inability to get elected if a Pakistani politician were to say good things about India? shiv
Re: [silk] Why My Father Hated India
On 07/18/2011 07:51 PM, ss wrote: On Monday 18 Jul 2011 2:37:20 pm M.K.Pai wrote: Salman Taseer, probably said what he did for public consumption. Its difficult for a Pakistani politician to get elected unless he says unpleasant things about India. My My! That is odd isn't it? Why would a politican in Pakistan have to say unpleasant things about India to get elected? Does that translate to the inability to get elected if a Pakistani politician were to say good things about India? shiv To change a few words in your para: Why would a politican _from the BJP_ have to say unpleasant things about _the Congress_ to get elected? Does that translate to the inability to get elected if a _BJP_ politician were to say good things about _the Congress_ ? It doesn't seem to matter what the context is, does it? :) Bharath Disclaimer : I have no love for either party.
Re: [silk] Why My Father Hated India
On Tuesday 19 Jul 2011 1:07:44 am Bharath Chari wrote: Why would a politican in Pakistan have to say unpleasant things about India to get elected? Does that translate to the inability to get elected if a Pakistani politician were to say good things about India? shiv To change a few words in your para: Why would a politican _from the BJP_ have to say unpleasant things about _the Congress_ to get elected? Does that translate to the inability to get elected if a BJP politician were to say good things about _the Congress_ ? It doesn't seem to matter what the context is, does it? :) Bharat - Google is useless. I am unable to find any evidence of the existence of a Congress party or a BJP in Pakistan. That leads me to the conclusion that you are equating the opposition of two political parties in India (to each other) to the opposition of politicians in Pakistan to India. Bharat - this is plain sophistry. If fails to address the original question I asked and diverts the topic to a completely unrelated issue that has no connection whatsoever. Are you joking or do you fail to see Pakistan as a separate country? Is this some weird Akhand Bharat (pun unintended) dream that you are expressing. shiv
Re: [silk] Why My Father Hated India
Bharat's point is that the bjp rss crowd are indistinguishable from the pakistanis in their tactics of hate politics I agree --Original Message-- From: ss Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net To: silklist@lists.hserus.net ReplyTo: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Why My Father Hated India Sent: Jul 19, 2011 06:13 On Tuesday 19 Jul 2011 1:07:44 am Bharath Chari wrote: Why would a politican in Pakistan have to say unpleasant things about India to get elected? Does that translate to the inability to get elected if a Pakistani politician were to say good things about India? shiv To change a few words in your para: Why would a politican _from the BJP_ have to say unpleasant things about _the Congress_ to get elected? Does that translate to the inability to get elected if a BJP politician were to say good things about _the Congress_ ? It doesn't seem to matter what the context is, does it? :) Bharat - Google is useless. I am unable to find any evidence of the existence of a Congress party or a BJP in Pakistan. That leads me to the conclusion that you are equating the opposition of two political parties in India (to each other) to the opposition of politicians in Pakistan to India. Bharat - this is plain sophistry. If fails to address the original question I asked and diverts the topic to a completely unrelated issue that has no connection whatsoever. Are you joking or do you fail to see Pakistan as a separate country? Is this some weird Akhand Bharat (pun unintended) dream that you are expressing. shiv -- srs (blackberry)
Re: [silk] Why My Father Hated India
On the topic of what Pakistanis need to do to get elected, here is a Pakistani take on Aatish Taseers article that rubbishes the idea that Pakistani politicians need to hate India to get elected. The hate India is a charcteristic, he says, of the military establishment and the faux liberals of Pakistan http://criticalppp.com/archives/53628 Recommending Aatish Taseer - by Alamgir Mendal For the urban (fake) liberal chatterati, this profound insight is unsettling. Most cannot come to terms with critical questions about the hazy myths and drawing room gossip that they hold as sacred truths regarding Pakistani history and Partition. Hence, it is very difficult for them to grasp Aatish’s very valid argument that the India-phobia shared by the security establishment has been the primary factor for fuelling violent Islamofascism in Pakistan. For the venal, shallow and fickle de-politicized urban elites, the India phobia of the security establishment defines them as well. Their virulent hatred for elected political leaders blinds them to the fact that the vast majority of Pakistanis who vote in PPP and other groups do not share their warped obsession with India. Pakistan’s elected leaders in the last three decades have all done their best to restore good relations with India (BB-Rajiv, NS-AV, AAZ-MMS) only for their efforts to be scuttled by the security establishment. shiv
Re: [silk] Why My Father Hated India
On Tuesday 19 Jul 2011 6:17:12 am Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: Bharat's point is that the bjp rss crowd are indistinguishable from the pakistanis in their tactics of hate politics I agree Please correct me if you believe I am putting words in your mouth - that is words that you did not mean or intend to say when you made the above statement. You are saying that the Hate Muslims and minorities tactics of the bjp rss crowd is indistinguisahble from the pakistanis in their tactics of hate India politics. There is, in your mind a connection between the hate politics of a political party in India with the hate politics in Pakistan. If the above conclusions are correct, let me point out that this is a frequently expressed viewpoint in India, But I am yet to hear answers to the following that stem from the above conclusions 1. If Pakistani politicians hate India, is there anything wrong in Indian polticians hating Muslims? Are they not valid political viewpoints that must be put to vote? Pakistanis have reasons to hate India and Indians have reasons to hate Muslims. 2. If Indian politicans were to give up their politics of hate, what effect would that be expected to have on the politics of hate in Pakistan. In other words, what, in your view is the connection betwen Pakistan politics and Indian politics other than a superficial strcutural similarity in the need for hating something? I would be grateful if you could go further in answering thse questions that the usual blather I hear when I ask them to various people. shiv
Re: [silk] Why My Father Hated India
ss [19/07/11 06:50 +0530]: 1. If Pakistani politicians hate India, is there anything wrong in Indian polticians hating Muslims? Are they not valid political viewpoints that must be put to vote? Pakistanis have reasons to hate India and Indians have reasons to hate Muslims. Well, lets put it this way, you're heading straight for more than one logical fallacy when you confuse muslims and pakistanis after that, there's the two wrongs dont make a right and that pakistanis being stupidly racist doesnt excuse indian politicians exhibiting the same behavior.
Re: [silk] Why My Father Hated India
On Tuesday 19 Jul 2011 7:22:47 am Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: Well, lets put it this way, you're heading straight for more than one logical fallacy when you confuse muslims and pakistanis LOL. There is no easy escape here sir. Are you saying that the BJP/RSS do not hate Muslims?. Is that what you had in the back of your mind when you wrote the following sentence: Bharat's point is that the bjp rss crowd are indistinguishable from the pakistanis in their tactics of hate politics On Tuesday 19 Jul 2011 7:22:47 am Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: after that, there's the two wrongs dont make a right and that pakistanis being stupidly racist doesnt excuse indian politicians exhibiting the same behavior. You are saying that just because Pakistanis hate India, Indians should not indulge in similar poluitics of hate. I ask you, are you now saying that there is no connection between Pakistan and India? Or are you saying there should be no connection? shiv
Re: [silk] Why My Father Hated India
The sangh parivar is making the same sort of circular reasoning you make when you say muslims do x vs pakistanis do x. The difference is about circular arguments on silklist versus burning houses and killing people. ss [19/07/11 07:33 +0530]: On Tuesday 19 Jul 2011 7:22:47 am Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: Well, lets put it this way, you're heading straight for more than one logical fallacy when you confuse muslims and pakistanis LOL. There is no easy escape here sir. Are you saying that the BJP/RSS do not hate Muslims?. Is that what you had in the back of your mind when you wrote the following sentence: Bharat's point is that the bjp rss crowd are indistinguishable from the pakistanis in their tactics of hate politics On Tuesday 19 Jul 2011 7:22:47 am Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: after that, there's the two wrongs dont make a right and that pakistanis being stupidly racist doesnt excuse indian politicians exhibiting the same behavior. You are saying that just because Pakistanis hate India, Indians should not indulge in similar poluitics of hate. I ask you, are you now saying that there is no connection between Pakistan and India? Or are you saying there should be no connection? shiv
