Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
On Mar 31, 2012 6:26 AM, Aadisht Khanna li...@aadisht.net wrote: On 29-03-2012 20:44, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: Affluence is definitely a prime culprit - during the zenith of the Imperium Romanum there was a similar crisis when free Romans didn't want to marry, because it was a drag, orgies were much fun. Roman society had to introduce a variety of incentives to promote marriage and the family. The tax benefits handed to married couples in modern societies comes directly from those times. Cheeni, do you have a citation for this, please? I was under the impression that income tax (and therefore any benefits or exemptions to it) was a twentieth century invention. Lex Julia et Papia is your Google term. http://www.unrv.com/government/julianmarriage.php « 120. Men must marry. Rome, 131 B.C. (fr. 6 Malcovati. L) Speech of the censor Quintus Caecilius Metellus Macedonicus [16] about the law requiring men to marry in order to produce children. According to Livy (Per. 59), in 17 B.C. Augustus read out this speech, which seemed written for the hour, in the Senate in support of his own legislation encouraging marriage and childbearing (see no. 121).If we could survive without a wife, citizens of Rome, all of us would do without that nuisance; but since nature has so decreed that we cannot manage comfortably with them, nor live in any way without them, [17] we must plan for our lasting preservation rather than for our temporary pleasure. 121. Prizes for marriage and having children. Rome, 1st cent. A.D. (Dio Cassius, History of Rome 54.16.1-1. Early 3rd cent. A.D. G) [Augustus] assessed heavier taxes on unmarried men and women without husbands, and by contrast offered awards for marriage and childbearing. And since there were more males than females among the nobility, he permitted anyone who wished (except for senators) to marry freedwomen, and decreed that children of such marriages be legitimate. »
Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Aadisht Khanna [31/03/12 09:54 +0530]: On 29-03-2012 20:44, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: Cheeni, do you have a citation for this, please? I was under the impression that income tax (and therefore any benefits or exemptions to it) was a twentieth century invention. 1799 in england to be specific. by Pitt the Younger eh? Kautilya’s Arthasastra (300BC) talks in detail about income tax, customs levies and trade taxes, and still earlier, the Manu Smriti also has sections on taxation of agricultural produce. Chinese emperors have for long played with income tax too. Sloth taxes were quite common too; if you didn't cultivate land under your ownership it was quite common to pay a tax for keeping it fallow. There have been other taxes on income such as tithes since ancient times In ancient times the idea of personal property was non-existent, everything belonged to the tribe. It was in later years when the size of the tribe expanded to empire sized institutions that land taxes and tithes started becoming necessary.
Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
In its present shape and form at any rate There have been previous taxes on income and wealth, around the world -- srs (blackberry) -Original Message- From: Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com Sender: silklist-bounces+suresh=hserus@lists.hserus.net Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 12:54:45 To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Reply-To: silklist@lists.hserus.net Subject: Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Suresh Ramasubramanian sur...@hserus.net wrote: Aadisht Khanna [31/03/12 09:54 +0530]: On 29-03-2012 20:44, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: Cheeni, do you have a citation for this, please? I was under the impression that income tax (and therefore any benefits or exemptions to it) was a twentieth century invention. 1799 in england to be specific. by Pitt the Younger eh? Kautilya’s Arthasastra (300BC) talks in detail about income tax, customs levies and trade taxes, and still earlier, the Manu Smriti also has sections on taxation of agricultural produce. Chinese emperors have for long played with income tax too. Sloth taxes were quite common too; if you didn't cultivate land under your ownership it was quite common to pay a tax for keeping it fallow. There have been other taxes on income such as tithes since ancient times In ancient times the idea of personal property was non-existent, everything belonged to the tribe. It was in later years when the size of the tribe expanded to empire sized institutions that land taxes and tithes started becoming necessary.
Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 6:40 PM, Deepak Shenoy deepakshe...@gmail.com wrote: To balance the personal with the social and familial is a tough thing to do in the modern world where choices are increasingly personal because the personal has a short-termist appeal to the curious. I can't agree with this; personal choices make for brilliant long term thinking. Which to me explains why, in those olden ages, people went off to the mountains to meditate. If you wanted to think longer term, you needed to get out of society which always bound you to the short term. The exception does not make the rule. Soceity has never been at risk of being over run by society shunning monks and thinkers. For most people personal choice is a way of acting out their desires away from the glare of social censure.
[silk] Listers in New York city?
I'll be around thereabouts all of next week, anyone else? Cheeni
Re: [silk] Listers in New York city?
Maybe. I live in Massachusetts but get down to NYC from time to time have business that may take me there next week. jrs On Mar 31, 2012, at 7:32 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: I'll be around thereabouts all of next week, anyone else? Cheeni
[silk] Proof, was Life and Love in Bangalore
On Mar 31, 2012 1:32 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.com wrote: The exception does not make the rule. The exception proves [tests] the rule. A pet peeve of mine (I have a lot of pets) is the misquotation and misuse of this line. Proof in this usage means to test not to demonstrate. Somewhat archaic, it can also be found in the proof of the pudding is in the tasting, proof sets of coins, and alcoholic proof. Pedantically yours, -- Charles
Re: [silk] Listers in New York city?
i'm often in new york, but not next week. but i know it well, so if anyone needs recommendations, i can supply. the more specific the requirements, the easier to satisfy them... On Mar 31, 2012, at 4:32 AM, Srini RamaKrishnan wrote: I'll be around thereabouts all of next week, anyone else? Cheeni
Re: [silk] Fwd: Life and Love in Bangalore
The exception does not make the rule. Soceity has never been at risk of being over run by society shunning monks and thinkers. For most people personal choice is a way of acting out their desires away from the glare of social censure. An exception usually attempts to disprove the rule, and in this case there was just one example given. Gazillions others exist, from the Socrateses to those that argued against blood-letting, to prove that ignoring individual choices or thinking can be hugely harmful to society as a whole. Society has always been at risk by not allowing personal decisions to flourish. I also disagree on the last sentence - every choice, whether social or personal, will invite some censure, personal or social. Either party doesn't care. The social element is far more dangerous which is why we loathe collateral damage. Often collateral damage is written away as a tradeoff, but like a white lie, it is always wrong.
Re: [silk] Listers in New York city?
Hi Mark, On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 7:03 PM, mark seiden m...@seiden.com wrote: i'm often in new york, but not next week. but i know it well, so if anyone needs recommendations, i can supply. the more specific the requirements, the easier to satisfy them... Too bad about next week, maybe another time when I'm in the city or in the area we could meet. So, what do you recommend for a visitor who's been there a dozen odd times and is falling into the trap of doing the same comfortable things every time? I love walking the streets of Manhattan (maybe I will pack a lunch and don a backpack, pack the camera and hike around the city), maybe window shopping(speaking of shopping I'm definitely staying out of BH Photo Video, but maybe some pizza when in Brooklyn), sampling the chinese and Indian restaurants (again getting into something of a pattern of favorites here, Chinese Mirch usually satisfies both and neither, but I have a few hole in the wall cabbie haunts where I grab a cheap lunch out of a styrofoam box for old memories), grabbing a coffee at my favorite coffee shop (cafegrumpy.com for the curious), running in Central Park (I will be staying too far away this time, so maybe I'll substitute running in the Hamptons or cycling), browsing books at the Strand at the risk of adding to the quite tall to-read pile, maybe a few art movies (I'll be too early for the Tribeca film festival, but I'll have to see what I can do) and since I'm on something of a vacation this time maybe I will have time for the Guggenheim and the Met or the Asia society. Oh and one more question, what's your recommendation for the best bagels in town? Thanks, Cheeni
