Re: [silk] Imperialistic countries
Why are European countries like Germany, France, UK are developed well ? Because they were imperialistic or because of good governance after hitler rule in Germany and imperalistic rules in other places ? What is causing Bulgaria to develop well ? Poland which was under communist rule is developed country ? If these are developing rapidly why is it so ? Because of lesser conflicts compared to India ? I think it would be obvious? Look how fair their skin is! If there's one thing they seem to be communicating in the obnoxious commercials from Nivea and Unilever, it's that whiter is better. Low populations, female equality, courteous driving, and the assult of science over religion (The so-called Age of Reason when Europe rediscovered Ancient Greece and Rome) maybe helped. Also they got very good at killing and conquering because of the frequent state of warfare that followed the fall of Rome up until WW II. If a monkey messes with your stuff in America, it gets caged and relocated or shot. No one would put but with the Jaipur crap because they think these are Hanuman's soldiers. But keep in mind this is all about the time in which we live. For most of Europe's history they were backwards. We just happen to live now instead of the time of Ashoka or Harrapa or Xanadu. We shouldn't take it so personally. The West seems to be doing themselves in quite finely at the moment. Even we Americans know that, hence the vociferous electoral expulsion of the Republican party from government.
Re: [silk] Imperialistic countries
Low populations, female equality, courteous driving, and the assult of science over religion (The so-called Age of Reason when Europe rediscovered Ancient Greece and Rome) maybe helped. In fact I think I made the point that the way people drive here is a metaphor for the problem. No one gives a shit about anyone else -- everyone tries to get ahead -- and the fastest anyone can go is 40KPH. Even on a very crowded highway in the US, I drive 100-120KPH. Because if I drove like they drive here, I'd be arrested -- most likely due to some other driver calling the police and the police showing up. Here's a thought experiment: Imagine you've got 2 groups 50 people each. Group A is blindfolded. Group B is charged with leading them though a maze. In Trial 1, you tell Group A that 10% of Group B has been told to mislead them, and the rest are supposed to take them though right. When those in Group A think they're being misled, they should stop and take off their blindfold. No one takes off their blindfold. Then in Trial 2, you tell Group A that 50% of Group B has been told to mislead them, and the rest are supposed to take them through correctly. Same deal. Everyone takes off their blindfold. Even the perception of corruption and the undermining of meritocracy is enough to stall progress. I try to wait in a line here, and people try to drift past me like I'm blind. No one does that in Stockholm -- they would be mortified. Q.E.D.
Re: [silk] Imperialistic countries
I try to wait in a line here, and people try to drift past me like I'm blind. No one does that in Stockholm -- they would be mortified. Q.E.D. Keeping in mind that most everyone on this list is enlightened. I'm talking about the masses.
Re: [silk] Imperialistic countries
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 7:20 PM, Ravi Bellur rav...@gmail.com wrote: I try to wait in a line here, and people try to drift past me like I'm blind. No one does that in Stockholm -- they would be mortified. Q.E.D. Keeping in mind that most everyone on this list is enlightened. I'm talking about the masses. And keep in mind that the most sexist and least traffic law abiding countries in Europe are the least successful in terms of per-capital productivity and median quality of life.
Re: [silk] Bangalore Meetup on May 16?
When do they shut down the alcohol purveyors? thanks.
Re: [silk] Imperialistic countries
Not debating you point, but you should try driving in Boston or NY. Not that it comes close to the Bangalore situation, but if the road infrastructure was as bad as it is here, you would see pretty much the same. Seattle is over-polite, I feel suffocated there with people being so nice to each other :) True about the east coast of US. But those two cities are known as the worst places to drive. How about this underly-thought out point: The more nudity and pre-marital sex and sexually liberated women -- the more successful the median person in the country (because Saudi is pretty successful as God decided to put all our oil under them, as they joke on American TV) -- e.g. Scandinavia, Germany, France, etc. I suppose Im just being an agent provacateur, but why should Bonobashi have all the fun? :-)
Re: [silk] Imperialistic countries
WTF? To be frank: TF. :-)
[silk] America's Sri Ram Sena
Like I said, we got 'em too. So concerned with repressive control that they miss the essential points of their religions. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090508/ap_on_re_us/us_school_dance_flap
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Having said that, I wonder if there is any service that allows people at USA order books from Indian stores with delivery to the US listed addresses ? The books I get here are WAY cheaper than the US, but they almost all say For sale only in India, Pakistan, Bangalesh, Sri Lanka, etc. Just like region codes for DVDs, it's a scheme to base prices on the cost of living. Fair enough, that's business.
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
Visiting India in 1921, E. M. Forster witnessed the eight-day celebration of Lord Krishna’s birthday. This first encounter with devotional ecstasy left the Bloomsbury aesthete baffled. “There is no dignity, no taste, no form,” he complained in a letter home. Brits were kinda uptight back then. See The Family Guy for the scene where they depict British Porn (probably on You Tube). Hilarious. Recoiling from Hindu India, Forster was relieved to enter the relatively rational world of Islam. Describing the muezzin’s call at the Taj Mahal, he wrote, “I knew at all events where I stood and what I heard; it was a land that was not merely atmosphere but had definite outlines and horizons.” Yeah, as an infidel. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel) -- welcome to Monotheism: there can be only one The British Army captain who discovered the erotic temples of Khajuraho in the early 19th century was outraged by how “extremely indecent and offensive” depictions of fornicating couples profaned a “place of worship.” Lord Macaulay thundered against the worship, still widespread in India today, of the Shiva lingam. Even Karl Marx inveighed against how man, “the sovereign of nature,” had degraded himself in India by worshipping Hanuman, the monkey god. Fornication rules. Watch the Animal Channel -- under our civilian vaneer we are so much like our primate cousins that it's chilling. Repelled by such pagan blasphemies, the first British scholars of India went so far as to invent what we now call “Hinduism,” complete with a mainstream classical tradition consisting entirely of Sanskrit philosophical texts like the Bhagavad-Gita and the Upanishads. In fact, most Indians in the 18th century knew no Sanskrit, the language exclusive to Brahmins. My ancestors were Brahmins -- both landlords and civil servants in recent history. When I hear how they treated non-Brahmins, it makes me furious. Egalitarianism isn't beneficient, it's protecting ones own freedom. And they found keen collaborators among upper-caste Indian scholars and translators. This British-Brahmin version of Hinduism — one of the many invented traditions born around the world in the 18th and 19th centuries Everybody wants to rule the world. That should be the qualifiing test to make sure that you're never allowed to. These mostly upper-caste and middle-class nationalists have accelerated the modernization and homogenization of “Hinduism.” And in the US, rich people brandish Christianity while mocking Obama for saying We all do better when we share the wealth a little bit. What kind of pinko commie would say that (Why... their own Jesus Christ). People with money and power use whatever powers they can to hold their own positions and enfranchise their children to it. Far from being a slave to mindless superstition, popular religious legend conveys a darkly ambiguous view of human action. Revered as heroes in one region, the characters of the great epics “Ramayana” and “Mahabharata” can be regarded as villains in another. Demons and gods are dialectically interrelated in a complex cosmic order that would make little sense to the theologians of the so-called war on terror. Polemic thought makes everything easier. It makes hate and love so much more passionate. Nevermind that it mirrors almost nothing in the natural world. Brain hurt me think too hard, ugh. As she puts it, “It’s not all about Brahmins, Sanskrit, the Gita.” It’s also not about perfidious Muslims who destroyed innumerable Hindu temples and forcibly converted millions of Indians to Islam. It makes perfect sense to me that people disenfranchised by Hinduism would willingly convert. Shovel your own nightsoil, Brahmins. BTW, Christianity permeanted the Roman Empire in the same way -- blessed are the poor? One life and then heaven? Where do I sign up?!? Can't blame 'em. I'd have done the same. Happily, it will also serve as a salutary antidote to the fanatics who perceive — correctly — the fluid existential identities and commodious metaphysic of practiced Indian religions as a threat to their project of a culturally homogenous and militant nation-state. I think they'd find any pretext for this. I'm somewhat surprised how violent the empahtically indenfied Hindus are here. Lets do some empericism. Traits of the most economically successful countries with the highest average level quality of life: 1) Not very religious 2) Highly egalitarian 3) Polite drivers who follow the rules 4) Low corruption 5) Alcohol consumption 6) High degree of women's rights, and promiscuity 7) Low or no abject poverty 8) Low violence and crime (I'm not talking about the US on this -- mainly western Europe) I dunno what it is but the countries that treat women like second class citizens, are incredibly concerned about everyone elses sex life (and limiting it), drive like thoughless maniacs (e.g. don't give a crap about anyone but themselves,
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
I would recommend Coupling[1] - the original UK version (not the US remake by NBC which was pretty lame) -- Vinayak 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling_(UK_TV_series) You could not be more right. I loved the UK Coupling, own every episode. Jeff Murdoch is a prophet! :-)
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
(hidden connections ala Seinfeld) YES YES YES!! That's what's so brilliant -- how 3 or more seemingly indepent plot lines end up dovetailing multiplicatively. You have made my day :-) I wish my DVDs weren't on the other side of the world at the moment. I'm am Giselle, the French bitch! Wa-kish! And I'm Dick Darlington!
Re: [silk] Another Incarnation (Book Review of 'The Hindus, An Alternate History')
There are so many brilliant episodes and scenes. But I think beep beep inferno is my favourite especially the scene where Steve tries to explain the plot at the table :) -- Vinayak Ah, Lesbian Spank Inferno. Good one. But my favorite has to be the one with the Israeli girl seen twice, each time from the perspective of only understanding one of the languages (don't watch with Hebrew speakers or it'll ruin it -- I have no idea what language Jeff speaks in the second perspective part). The Girl with Two Breasts I think is the name of the episode. Shadaym!!
Re: [silk] Bangalore Meetup on May 16?
Anyone up for a drink with Amit, myself, and whoever else turns up on that evening, somewhere in the vicinity? Hmmm spontaneously and with no outside influence, I think either of these places look good: http://shiokfood.com or http://mosslounge.com. :-) As to how proximal they are to the bookstore, I'm too indolent at the moment to suffer my Bangalore map book.
Re: [silk] Need some help
Thanks for this reply . -- this was the kind of elucidation that helped me understand things better. One of the many benefits of Silklist. On the US election stuff, it vetted to the nation a lot of the gender discrimination that still exists. There's plenty of discrimination that persist, though things continue to improve. I look to Western Europe mainly as the vanguard of human society. The US has a way to go before we're there. But I blame them for sending all the religious extremists here some several hundreds of years ago. And I saw Goody Proctor consorting with the Devil!!! :-)
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
Don't forget the TV channels. All they want is a straw and they will sensationalize it. Reminds of a recent sighting on News 9, a Bangalore based local news channel. They were making a big hue and cry about a program that was going to be aired later that night that was based on the news that a woman was growing 'pot' in pots at home. The ad was sounding as if it was a gruesome mass murder. Hey, you need ratings to get Nivea and Garnier to sell their skin lightening products. Apparently no one believes the Western World when we say that Indians are good looking the way they are. And we'd like to be darker. I've been sunburned twice here already. It's unpleasant. But to quote Perry Farrell from Jane's Addiction, -- The news is just another show selling sex and violence -- Ted, Just Admit It from the album Nothing's Shocking
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
sic lightening On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Ravi Bellur rav...@gmail.com wrote: Don't forget the TV channels. All they want is a straw and they will sensationalize it. Reminds of a recent sighting on News 9, a Bangalore based local news channel. They were making a big hue and cry about a program that was going to be aired later that night that was based on the news that a woman was growing 'pot' in pots at home. The ad was sounding as if it was a gruesome mass murder. Hey, you need ratings to get Nivea and Garnier to sell their skin lightening products. Apparently no one believes the Western World when we say that Indians are good looking the way they are. And we'd like to be darker. I've been sunburned twice here already. It's unpleasant. But to quote Perry Farrell from Jane's Addiction, -- The news is just another show selling sex and violence -- Ted, Just Admit It from the album Nothing's Shocking
Re: [silk] Disenfranchised Minorities?
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Srini RamaKrishnan che...@gmail.comwrote: (Bah, gmail on blackberry does not allow bottom posting) As someone once said, do not attribute to malice that which can be sufficiently attributed to stupidity. Napolean Boneparte
Re: [silk] Need some help
Welcome to our western nightmare: men are the eye candy accessories. http://omg.yahoo.com/news/melissa-rycroft-and-beau-make-red-carpet-debut-at-us-hot-hollywood-party/21664?nc Sad that the wrong side won (instead of liberating women from superficial oppression, we just subsumed men to the same thing... that said, the west is full of single mom's raising the children of passion and looking for stable men to do this. Nothing wrong with that, but from an evolutionary perspective, what genes are being progenerated? Maybe that's why India seems so nutty about controlling (and out of respect for this list, I'll walk away from the obvious, latin based double entrendre) whom women are with. That said, on the discovery channel, I'm watching a naked sadhu pull a jeep with his penis. This is one crazy place -- and I mean that in the best and worst ways, simultaneously.
Re: [silk] Need some help
In Free Societies I think we believe there's large social benefit to fairness and freedom. This includes access to enfranchisement in that society. And a place to live, a place to work, etc. are elements of that. Hence, in the US, there are Civil Rights laws that make certain discrimination against people on the basis of race, religion, and gender illegal -- all added in the 20th century after struggles. I agree with personal choice; for example, I disagree with forcing a woman to wear a headscarf and I disagree with attempts to force a woman not to be able to wear a headscarf -- like some French schools tried to do. No one forces them to rent out their places. But if they want to engage in what is essentially commerce, for the greater societal welfare it needs to be governed by fair rules as much as stock transactions should bar insider information. For example, there is a list of information that a realtor cannot provide a buyer in the US as its considered discriminatory: http://law.freeadvice.com/government_law/civil_rights_law_ada/housing_protections.htm That said, there's plenty hidden discrimination -- people who don't want to rent to college kids fearing destructive parties. Condo communities that don't allow children because it annoys the old folks. Fat people are often discriminated against in the workplace. Sometimes it can be hard to prove. As much as a huge liability the litigious nature of the US is, sometimes it does end up scaring people into doing the ethical thing, simply to avoid punishment. But on a personal note, a vegetarian Hindu in India (mind you, that's what my Indian side of the family has been for generations), who walks around thinking themselves morally superior to a Swede who eats meat just makes me laugh. In Sweden there is no such idea as a person being a dalit. There are no slums. Everyone can go to school. It is illegal to discriminate against people based on color (they even have dark skinned women on TV, which I almost never see here in India!), religion, race, gender, etc. There is no eve-teasing, no police torture (and the police enforce the law), no dowrys, no honor killing, very little violence and crime, you can cross the street without cars trying to run you down, etc. When India starts taking care of the human beings here, I'll stop eating meat. Priorities, please! Two final points -- the US has plenty of poverty, corruption, and violence (not to mention the reported torture in Gitmo)-- which many Americans find shameful (and I also laugh at Americans who think we're the best because we've got claim to so many superlatives, rather than contemplating rating us on the life of the average person or plight of those least fortunate). And second, there are *many* progressive and humanist Indians I've met who want to change things for the better here (and things have been getting better here in so many ways) -- the population is diverse here and I'm only talking about that segment that acts in these intolerant ways. The conflict between the intolerati (some of whom wouldn't want to rent to an Indian because they don't want that damned curry smell in their rental unit -- fortunately that's illegal for them to do -- and some of whom would want all Muslims in the US rounded up and put in camps, which again, is completely unconstitutional and would never be done -- especially after the shame of the Japanese internment during WWII) and the rest of Americans is one of the reasons for the major regime change in 2008. Because, to quote Michael Caine's character from the Austin Powers movie, There are two things I can't stand: people who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch! :-) On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.com wrote: It is problematic when vegetarianism is imposed on my by force, in both subtle and not-so-subtle ways. That I am viewed as lowly, meat eating person, simply because some cultures believe that it is more moral and superior to eat vegetarian food. There are personal choices, social choices, ecological choices for eating vegetables over meat. That is fine as long as it is not imposed on me. There is a fundamental issue of freedom at stake here.
Re: [silk] Need some help
But no one's apologizing to me for the fact that steak is so delicious, damn it! And don't even get me started on the wonder that is bacon... And no one's apologizing to the person that may worship phallic objects who is horrified at the treatment of carrots and cucumbers... (although I suppose that now impugns sausage)... But possibly as a result of lesser demand, beef is cheaper here (by quite a bit) than it is in the US. So the economist in me doesn't want to talk anyone out of vegitarianism. (I am trying to infuse some levity here, so please take it in that spirit. I do acknowledge the ethical and ecological virtues of veg.) On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.com wrote: The other issue is also that I am made to feel apologetic about choosing to eat meat. That makes me feel worse!
Re: [silk] Need some help
I didn't say I would pass judgment that he/she is a terrorist just on the basis of their Muslim name, just that I would be more wary. Since you've culled out other parts of my post - I'll restate. I didn't say I wouldn't rent to a Muslim, just not to somebody I didn't know at all or wasn't referred to me by somebody I know. Contrary to how you make it sound, I *don't* avoid Muslims like the plague. But neither do I want to be the open-minded stereotype-rejecting progressive-thinking idiot. I find the best way to think of humans are a bunch of pretty much identical scared little hairless monkeys who mostly can't tell the difference between post-facto rationalized instinct and deliberate thought. We'll make great uranium miners for our oppressive space-alien overlords who won't care who's from what religion, family, color, or whatever -- no matter how much we protest that we're different and special from the others. I look forward to it. :-) That said, in 988 AD if you saw a bunch of big blonde guys in a long boat, you might wanna go the other way. In 1942 Europe, if you saw a swastika flag, you shouldn't assume the place is a Yoga institute (The Yoga Institute in Santacruz, Mumbai is full of swastikas). Were all Germans Nazis? The party membership was in the single digit percentages at its height. During the crusades, I'd have rather taken my chances with Saladadin than Richard the Lionhearted (the Europeans at that time were notoriously savage) -- and if I was looking for science and culture, you'd want to head to Baghdad not Paris. Some say white people have never been slaves, but I assure you that Germanians, Gauls, and Brittanians captured by Caesar's western campaign in the 1st century BC came to Rome in chains and were sold. And in the early 21st Century, chances are that a terrorist is going to be a young Islamic male more than a middle aged Belgian woman. That's just the historical timing at the moment. And a blonde male in a long boat will elicit less fear. In fact the chance that the terrorist is going to be a young male, or violence will come from one, is obviously more likely. Over 90% of the US prison population is male, and something like 50% are violent offenders. Before in the US the fear was anti-federal militia groups such as the affinity of Tim McVey, a white christian who perpetrated the largest act of terrorism on US soil (Oklahoma Federal Building, some 190 deaths including children). The FBI had been raiding groups like that accumulating weapons. That was part of McVey's espoused justification for his actions. I never voted for Bush. I've been apologetic for the impression he's given the world of Americans for 8 years. But I'm stuck with that stereotype. If I walk into a store dressed up all gangsta I will have my picture ID checked before I can use my credit card. If I'm wearing a nice suit, I won't be checked. However, if a US police officer pulls over a black person just for driving in an neighborhood that has a low African-American population, that officer is violating the civil rights of the person and is opened up to dismissal and charges. US officials and airport security are not supposed to profile. But as a young man of swarthy description, I fit a profile. If they want to search me, I don't mind. I've nothing to hide. And if there's anyone else who looks like me getting on that plane, please, check them. It sucks that people who happen to look somewhat like me were behind 9/11, but there's not much I can do about it, much like a peaceful tall Blonde guy in 988AD might be killed for being mistaken as a Viking. However, the idea that Muslims should somehow be cleaning their own house and taking care of these guys is stupid. I had no power to stop what was going on in Gitmo. Hypothetically, had I gone down there and knocked on the door with a letter telling them to stop, I'd have been thrown in the slammer. A palenstinian living by some guys shooting off rockets at Israel is going to get a bullet in the head or a rifle butt in the face if he goes over there and tells them to stop. I don't take responsibility for what any people who meet any of my demographic groups does. I'm a culture of one -- I didn't ask to be born this way -- and I will shamelessly borrow and use the best ideas of any and all groups of humans. I will not let retarded supersticious idiots from hundreds of years ago force my behavior (although if they had some good ideas, I'm game -- pick and choose). So my point: (1) I can understand someone being more worried that a young muslim man might be a security risk than other folks. (2) I still think it should be illegal to use such criteria to make decisions about commerce, including renting. (3) Treating women like second class citizens and beating up your family is never ok -- I don't care who or what says otherwise -- it's wrong. (Unless, of course a woman chooses to want to be treated that way, or if a family member asks to be beat up,
Re: [silk] Need some help
During the crusades, I'd have rather taken my chances with Saladadin than Richard the Lionhearted (the Europeans at that time were notoriously savage) -- and if I was looking for science and culture, you'd want to head to Baghdad not Paris. I meant to spell Salahadin not Saladadin which sounds more like a witty pun for a Middle Eastern style Salad on some chain restaurant's menu (ironic slip given the vegitarian discussion earlier)
Re: [silk] Need some help
Oh, and I forgot one important point -- that playing up this Muslim Threat has been politically expedient for a number of politicians around the world (and definitely in the US). There's a different between the truth and the truthiness that gets demagogues what they want. And as far as whipping some young men up (especially when they're cut off from women due to cultural prohibitions) into a passionate violent movement, that's been going on forever, all over the world, and the leaders (almost always older men) get their own demagoguery benefits, both psychological, power, and fiduciary. And getting a population angry at an outside enemy is a fantastic way to distract them from domestic problems. And I don't think some of the guys in the metal detector or 9mm automatic ammunition businesses (or Halliburton) mind it too much either. Not to at all say they incite it, but I don't know how strong their motivation to see it go away would be. If there's no political motivation, then they just become gangs or skinheads or whatever. I think there's too much focus on trying to uncover the rationale rather than trying to measure the testosterone level. A bull elephant during their heat with high testosterone levels is predisposed to attack and dangerous to be around.
Re: [silk] Need some help
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:02 PM, sur...@hserus.net sur...@hserus.netwrote: I've eaten camel in riyadh and kangaroo in perth. i just dont order meat when others at the table are vegetarian I do cook special stuff just for them when I invite them over. Even when I have a barbecue, in California you're going to have vegetarians coming, religious, ethical, and/or health motivated. And I use separate cooking utensils and pans and all that jazz. I know from my own family how picky vegetarians want things done. It might be a little annoying, but I respect it. And I never expect them to cook meat for me. I've no problem eating veg.
Re: [silk] Need some help
So, basically I don't get it. I don't think we can compare them to the Vikings. And I don't think this is just history repeating itself. And forcing change (through military or other means) from the outside might only result in making matters worse (as evidenced in recent efforts) and maybe if nurtured from within, it might have better results? Kiran Yeah, it was somewhat flawed of an example. But lets say that radical christians were able to get big funding and take over the US. It would be pretty scary as well. And maybe they'd be supporting christian martyrs worldwide to protect christandom. If you watch the documentary Jesus Camp, it's scary. Little kids chanting about how they were christian soldiers and how they were in a religious war. Thankfully we have government agencies that keep their eyes on those guys, and most Americans, like most people in the world, I think, are moderate and just wanna live and let live (except Paul McCartney when he was writing that song for the James Bond movie...) A lot of religions have that part where they are the chosen people and everyone else is infidel shit. I think those who seize on that find it much easier to do whatever they want to outsiders. But ultimately, if it comes to crossing the street to avoid a perceived risky group of people, or showing one is above such thing -- in the individual case, I think we're programmed to err on the side of safety. It's much easier to be an idealist (I find) in a safe environment. :-)
Re: [silk] Need some help
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 10:17 PM, Zainab Bawa bawazaina...@gmail.comwrote: What makes you believe that Muslims shy away from capitalism? True, and there's also that matter of the bazzillions we pay to Muslim businessmen for oil (granted not in India, but remember that 17 of the 19 terrorists to whom 9/11 is attributed were Saudi Arabian). The west in particular has made them some of the richest people in the world. And to be honest, the west (and the US) has meddled extensively in that region, mostly to dire results (not to mention counter to the values of democracy and freedom that we ought to be prosetylizing in the world). But that's just because they had the gall to be sitting on top of OUR oil! (to be said in a Texan accent to best suitably mock those in American businessmen who thought that way... who probably also ate a lot of steak, but I doubt that was the root cause of their moral flexibility). Ask Salvador Allende what happens when you try to get in the way of our bauxite! I don't know if George Washinton, Thomas Jefferson, or Ben Franklin would have approved.
Re: [silk] Need some help
That was supposed to go to the thread that's numbering about 190+ entries. dunno why it ended up here.
Re: [silk] On self-improvement
Self-improvement, to some degree, requires self-awareness. Self-help books try to bake some of this in, but I think ultimately having the ability to see your automatic thoughts and understand their motivators. I think this is the realm of cognitive psychology, and I think they use many tools from that in self-help books -- but from what I've had recommended by well-credentialed folks is Feeling Good (horribly trite title for a great book) by David Burns. It describes itself as a therapy for depression, but what it does is quite thoroughly and methologically lay forth the principles of Cognitive Therapy as created by Dr. Aaron T. Beck at the University of Pennsylvania. Burns was one of Beck's students (both MDs and clinical researchers). And obviously way before that there was Astanga Yoga where self-awareness is a big part. For Covey the Seven Traits of Highly Effective People might be obvious, but as we deconstruct it, we see that he's a Mormon, and therefore may live a fairly idyllic life free from of the vicissitudes (or fun) that some face, simple and wholesome values, and with a lot of positive thinking going on around. For those wondering why adopting those traits may be harder than just wanting to, I think self-awareness is key. Know thyself... For example, I do not like fishsticks...
Re: [silk] Bangalore silk meet up
great meet up! good times meeting all of you -- thanks!
Re: [silk] Bangalore silk meet up
s...@venkatmangudi.com wrote: We're in for Friday. Shall we say 11:30 am? 1. Venkat 2. Usha 3. Udhay 4. Kiran 5. Ravi
Re: [silk] Indian Men Living in U.S. Strike Out
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123896998996190775.html For instance, he says some overseas Indians want a bride who is smart, fluent in English, and simultaneously, docile in the house. He says such women are now harder to find, so he bumps up his fees for some searches. To be fair, there are some red-blooded, white-breaded American males looking for such demure companions as well. Unsurprisingly, usually these guys are conservative, christian, and Republican. The cartoon Morel Orel on Adult Swim does a good job of satiring, in general, that group. But I do agree (in my case happily) that they are a vanishing breed in the US. Unless they want to be that way of their own free will and choice, understanding they have options, in which case, by all means. It's the forcing part that rubs my Free-Society fur the wrong way.
Re: [silk] Bangalore silk meet up
re: Lunch Ignorant of proximity issues, may I innocently recommend F B off of St. Marks? I went there this past weekend with Udhay and it rocked!!
Re: [silk] Bangalore silk meet up
Count me in, please! On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 1:28 PM, Venkat Mangudi s...@venkatmangudi.comwrote: Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote: OK. So lets say next Friday for dinner? I'm game...
Re: [silk] Manning the barricades
Sic transit gloria mundi. It means so passes the world's glory -- sic = so as in so is it always for tyrants which John Wilkes Booth said before he shot Abraham Lincoln (Sic semper tyrannus). transit = passes or goes (obviously they based the Latin word on our English word, before inventing their time machine to go back 2500 years) gloria = glory -- like the U2 song -- or glory to God in the highest (Gloria in excelcious Dieu)... forgive all spelling errors which are cleverly intentional as sublime satire... yeah... right... :-) -- much like Bono must be short for Bonobashi :-) mundi = like spiritus mundi from the opening track of Synchronicity by the Police Like many things, popular music has the answers. :-)
Re: [silk] Yet another introduction (Venkat Inumella)
Re: various interesting names It would be hard to beat this one for irony, especially if you're cursed with puerile sensibilties like me: the director of the WHO's dept on HIV/AIDS is named Kevin De Cock. http://www.who.int/hiv/mediacentre/news59/en/index.html He actually looks like a pretty nice guy...
Re: [silk] Manning the barricades
Yeah, I've got my problems. I still think the opposite of increment is excrement... :-)
Re: [silk] Manning the barricades
Oh you poor guy! Getting an increment must have been a very painful part of your life then. It's not completely berift of logic. If the opposite of incremental growth is excremental fall, it could explain the economic shit storm the US is in.
Re: [silk] Bangalore silk meet up previouslyTED India Registrations now open
Another time perhaps? I hear Cloud 9 is supposed to be the most enjoyable... On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Venkat Mangudi's Silk Account s...@venkatmangudi.com wrote: Sunday is out. Will be going to CloudCamp. On 3/26/09, Kiran K Karthikeyan kiran.karthike...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/3/26 Venkat Mangudi s...@venkatmangudi.com Kiran K Karthikeyan wrote: Venkat, Ravi, and Myself so far. Anybody else? Someone mentioned dinner on Friday or Saturday, both days are not good for me. Besides, I prefer the lunch at FB. Can we get a date/time for the silk meetup? That someone was yours truly. I just figured that were the best days. Lunch on Sunday is fine as well, though I won't be able to make it to dinner. FB is open for lunch from 11.30 to 3.45. Lets make it 1? Kiran -- Sent from my mobile device
[silk] Saying no to moral policing in Bangalore
I was heartened to read this piece: http://in.news.yahoo.com/43/20090325/818/tnl-no-votes-for-moral-cops-say-bangalor.html Even though I do find sleeveless t-shirts a bit lowbrow, with the usual intent of showing off the guns to the relatively unmuscled public. Unless it was a Def Leppard t-shirt, in which case, I believe sleeveless is the desired configuration. This may then help explain the abjectly low number of women walking around on Brigade Rd and the surroundings on a Saturday afternoon. I'm not fooled -- with 1.3 billion people, and women the gating factor for birthrate, they have to be somewhere -- even if sequestered underground in some Chitty Chitty Bang Bang fashion. Not that I have any salacious intent that's being foiled -- I condemn accosting anyone, women or men (for example, I don't want to take a damned 20 rupee one hour ride around the city where the driver drops me at some shopping place that he [I've never seen female autorickshaw driver -- are there any?] get kickbacks from so they can hard/guilt sell me some crap so please stop following me for 2 blocks relentlessly, necessitating I be rude with you to get the message across. Nor do I ever want to engage a woman in such a fashion that she has to be rude to me to get the message across. That's just troglodytic.) -- it was just starkly noticeable and strange to me. For so many vegetarians who thought it'd be such a sausage-fest. Then again, when I heard about the rave and the of the 100 people arrested, how it was such a disgrace that 22 were women, I completely agreed. You've got to have a 50/50 ratio at least. I'm sure that was the reason for the outrage. (But to be fair, they bust raves in the US all the time -- for illegal drugs and unlicensed liquor serving and such -- fair enough, they are breaking the law -- but obscene dancing? That said, there are conservative nut-groups in the US who want to ban school dances and such, as being immoral, so one can hardly argue the US is wholly progressive... But if one hosted a party for young people in much of the so-called Western World with 78 guys and 22 women, the host ought be prepared to be harangued for months about it... unless it was like organized by the single women or a gay party or something, in which case I think one would be rightfully lauded.) I don't think there's any ethical way to stop women from self-actualizing, even if it bothers one for whatever reason. Better we accept this. (I'm no lothario but I've learned to subjugate my anger at this ineptness the respectable way -- with bitterness and alcohol :-). Given the number of 6-foot tall Valkyries in Scandinavia, they had to succumb early, lest the men be soundly beaten, physically. However, there is the bored young men with too much testosterone and retarded inter-gender social skills cause trouble theory. Even without some demagogue to hand down rationalizations, you've got well-armed gangs in the US, frat boys, etc. I can only hope that one day there will be compassion and perhaps treatment for that tragically afflicted legion with age-related testosterone poisoning. I recall it wasn't an easy time.
Re: [silk] Introduction - New Member
If there's one thing I've learned from Keanu Reeves, it's that there is no spoon... :-) On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 8:56 AM, lukhman_khan lukhman_k...@yahoo.comwrote: Thanks Kiran. Udai is helping me as well -- but the more help the better,especially at this beginning phase which is about taking in the larger scene and seeing what's out there. Shouldnt it be *less help the better* Too much of spoon feeding takes the fun out of the exploration. Lukhman
Re: [silk] Prime Ministerial candidate
Also I think the trance band Enigma named a song Mea Culpa which means, My fault or My blame (the root of the word culpable) in Latin. Although it appears the local police may have tried to stop the party where that music was played., lest there be obscene dancing... :-) On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 9:24 AM, ss cybers...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday 23 Mar 2009 9:11:34 am Biju Chacko wrote: where the heck else would those of us who missed out on a classical education have come across the word?
Re: [silk] Introduction - New Member
Scandinavian women in general are very sexually liberated (probably the most in the world, although when it comes to being unshackled by traditional views, the Aussies are supposed to be close if not more so, but I base that solely on scuttlebutt). They are also very independent -- the most truly equal in terms of gender relations I've seen -- like if you try to pick up the check too often when going out (no one really dates there, in that this formal courtship idea is viewed as somewhat anachronistic), you will honestly anger the woman (as opposed to the cake-and-eat-it-too feminism stage that I would argue is more the case in the US -- that battle is still in the who has the power stage). This openness is seen in examples such as the City of Copenhagen employing topless women to hold speed limit signs to address a speeding problem in the city. Paid for with taxpayer money. Or topless beaches. Or sexually explicit content on TV. One might almost believe that the women there enjoy sex for its own sake, and aren't afraid to want it. Shri Ram Sena would crap their pants. To spite the prognostications that loose sexual morals is a harbinger of social distentegration, Scandinavia consistently scores as the highes quality of living in the world. I dare say, looking at places that are oppressive about sexuality, they are far further down on the list. I wouldn't posit cause for coincidence, but it does make me picture Tyler Durden leaning over to them on an airplane saying, ...so how's that working out for you... being [so pure] (N.B. my change to his original quote which was ...being clever, after Edward Norton's character says something about single-serving friends)... I speak of today's generation though -- my mom's generation was more conservative and such -- they were growing up during the aftermath of WWII where there was plenty of deprivation and devistation that needed to be remedied. Not terribly different than the Boomer generation (who are seeming to find Jesus in large numbers, and obnoxiously prosetylizing their new enlightenment as if to demonstrate their solipcism that has harmed the US in many ways). The younger generations in the US are pretty different, and more overtly salacious (thanks, Paris Hilton...) Having been smitten by a number of nordic damsels, I will say that one of the thing that is so strange is the sheer percentage of young women who are simply gorgeous. I leave it to the cultural geneticists to explain... That said, Danish pronunciation can be a bitch. Your vexation is quite entitled. But it's only 5.5M people. That's like a rounding-error in India. So, in aggregate, just in pure numbers, there must be far more sex going on in India than in Denmark. How do you like them butter cookies, Danes?!? :-) On Sat, Mar 21, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Tim Bray tb...@textuality.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Ravi Bellur rav...@gmail.com wrote: I was born in the US to an Indian dad from Bangalore and a Danish mom. This is a true story. One time I was in Helsingør, AKA Hamlet's hometown, at a technology conference, and I was single, and I met a comely young Danish woman, also single who looked at me That Way, and thought there might be something there, but I couldn't pronounce her first name and she didn't think that was cute, so I got nowhere. I recognize that having a Danish mom doesn't make this your fault, but I'm still bitter. -Tim
Re: [silk] Introduction - New Member
Welcome to the asylum, and please wipe the razors clean of blood after use. Your courtesy will be appreciated by other users. I have a theory to solve problems that I call Occam's Razor-slashed wrists, -- it states that whatever the most depressing explanation is, that's the most likely one. I'll make sure to clean up after use. :-) PS: I happen to be a friend of the only fat Dane in Denmark. It started with pity and ended in friendship. I couldn't help feeling sorry for him; he married an Iyengar. It's hard to beat the US for obesity (though the percentages vary quite a bit from state to state). But there are corpulent Danes. Beer and pork can add up, calorically. I'm not sure what marrying an Iyengar means (I know of BKE Iyengar from studying yoga, as well as the fact that the B stands for Bellur, which is where he's from. That and a rupee will buy me some paan.). Can anyone explain, so as to broaden my cultural knowledge?
Re: [silk] TED India Registrations now open
I think they assume companies will pay it, and, at least in the US, they are inured to such figures. But yeah, I think it's too much. I think they only want people who don't think that. Remember: conferences are businesses. They make money. On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Mayank Dhingra dhingra.may...@gmail.comwrote: Is it just me or $2,400 is a bit too much ?
Re: [silk] TED India Registrations now open
I'm game! Why don't we have a silk meetup there since there have been some newcomers to the list (myself included)? Need the latest food guide for Bangalore. Kiran
Re: [silk] Thanks for a warm welcome
I second that emotion. Thanks for the warm welcome. And the incisive interchange that I've been a voyeur to in the past few days. I'll tell my native species, from the planet where the sentient race is logical and fair, to send back the assult fleet -- there is, indeed, intelligence on this watery rock. And Rock, as well. :-)
[silk] Introduction - New Member
Hi, all, Udai and my cousin Bala are long time friends, from childhood. I met Udai though him and after being subjected to my company on a number of occasions, he invited me to join silklist. I thought it was a fan club for the soy milk brand. But it's more likely a place to ask and discuss the larger questions, such as why some people, perhaps out of some nefarious monosaccharide racism, cannot tolerate a glucose and a galactose molecule getting together. I was born in the US to an Indian dad from Bangalore and a Danish mom. I'm currently in India, this being my 4th visit, and no visit every being less than 6 weeks. Synthesizing the voiced input of my friends I think of myself as a dilettante that is occasionally mistaken for a polymath. I did a 5 year sentence at Stanford Maximum Security Educational Institution, escaping from a sewage pipe into a rainstorm with a bachelors in economics and a masters in industrial engineering. I then worked in tech for some 12 years -- Intuit, Microsoft, some start-ups. So I lived in the bay area for a while (though I went to Seattle for Microsoft). I did product management and marketing stuff mainly, although I did run beta testing and usability for Intuit for a while. Everything from working on features with recalcitrant engineering teams to talking to press about new products while being chaperoned by toothsome but vapid PR women dressed all in black with yellow tinted spectacles that have no corrective power. I love rock and roll, put another rupee in the jukebox baby -- I play electric guitar and sing in a throw-together band. I also love things epicurean (but hate looking up how to spell words like that), and somehow was one of Zagat's top contributors for their 2008 bay area guide (touching form letter I got from them, but at least it came with a free book and map). Politically I've been a democrat for as long as I've been a voter, and with a Danish mom, I find little wrong with being a liberal and considering social programs for areas important to human dignity that are overlooked or underserved by the private sector (there is a difference between whether help is needed and whether the help currently given is working or not). In general I look to South Park and the Daily Show for the most truthful news -- paraphrasing Shaw, 'If you're going to tell people the truth, you had better make them laugh. Otherwise they will kill you' I'm currently in Bangalore (I've been in India since Jan 21st), taking a break from the vibe in the states and soaking in all that's changed since I was last here in the late '80s. As a person of Indian origin, I got one of these very nifty Person of Indian Origin cards that connotes certain benefits like not needing a visa, and being entitled to work. So I am very seriously contemplating getting some remunerative endeavor (like a job) and spending a prolonged time here. Although with an 11:00 last call at bars, I'm thinking someone deconstructed the name of the place and presumed it meant ban galore -- as in how much can we ban. :-) Eager to enjoy the effervescent edification of ebullient erudition. Best, Ravi
