Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
On Tue, 2008-02-26 at 20:32 +, Badri Natarajan wrote: PS - The issue may become moot soon, anyway. The Indian govt is planning to introduce visas-on-arrival for citizens of a number of Western countries: wow! someone in govt found a brain cell! i once heard an official in the indian embassy in the hague who was giving a dutch businessman a ridiculous amount of trouble regarding some obscure original invitation he should have included in his application. he said woh hame itna rulate hain, ab hum rulaienge (they give us so much grief, we can do it to them too). i find it mildly annoying how europeans (or americans) complain about the indian visa procedures, given how messed up their own are. but contrast that tit-for-tat approach with the chinese embassy, that told me i could get my visa in 30 minutes instead of a few days if i just paid a 50% extra visa fee. no wonder china does so much better business than india. but visas on arrival will give india a big advantage. -rishab
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
On Tue, 2008-02-26 at 15:06 -0800, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote: This is not a restriction on journalism. It is a restriction on working. the I visa _is_ a restriction on journalism. not on working. the visa waiver restriction on working refers to earning money in the US, which would apply for a freelancer going to do a story in the US for, say, the new york times, but not one getting paid by the guardian. it's no problem to use the visa waiver form and get into the US for e.g. business meetings or conference speeches for which you are being paid by non-US organisations. on the other hand, the restriction on journalism has nothing to do with whether or not you're being paid, by anyone US or not. -rishab
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
On 27-Feb-08, at 3:35 AM, Charles Haynes wrote: That's totally bizarre. Though I was amused by this sign in a Bangalore bank: No weapons are allowed inside the bank except for kripans by Sikhs. http://www.flickr.com/photos/haynes/871162228/ Curiously enough, the Delhi airport lists items prohibited for carrying on planes, with the exception of kripans carried by sikhs measuring under specific dimensions. Last night at Garuda Mall, we saw a Sikh security person carrying a kripan and a metal detector, both of roughly equal size, on the same side of his body.
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 2:25 PM, Kiran Jonnalagadda wrote: Curiously enough, the Delhi airport lists items prohibited for carrying on planes, with the exception of kripans carried by sikhs measuring under specific dimensions. Last night at Garuda Mall, we saw a Sikh security person carrying a kripan and a metal detector, both of roughly equal size, on the same side of his body. There is a huge transparent basket inside nairobi airport near the xray machines, where they routinely place confisicated nail clippers, dangerous looking ball-point pens, cigarette lighters which resemble guns etc. However, inside the basket, one can always see a couple of large yemeni swords, very many pangas (a heavy machete useful for cutting grass, and splitting open a coconut). Presumably people had tried to carry these inside hand-luggage, since I myself have carried a spear as checked-in baggage...
[silk] Writers not welcome in India?
Debbie and I are in the process of applying for 10 yr validity tourist visas for India. Our applications are very similar, except I put down Software Engineer as my occupation and Debbie put down Writer. Big mistake. I got my ten year tourist (T) visa with no problems or delays. Debbie however only got a 3 month journalist (J) visa. She has asked them very nicely to reconsider, saying that she does not write professionally, and is just a mild mannered housewife. We will find out later today if they will deign to issue my shady potentially subversive sweetie a long term visa. They seemed concerned that she should not write about India and sell it for some reason. I know that there are third world dictatorships lacking a free press that are anxious to control access by foreign journalists, but India? WTF? -- Charles
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
subversive sweetie a long term visa. They seemed concerned that she should not write about India and sell it for some reason. I know that there are third world dictatorships lacking a free press that are anxious to control access by foreign journalists, but India? Err..you mean the same way the USA controls access by foreign journalists and makes them get special visas (even those who can otherwise enter with visa waivers)? Eg: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jun/05/usa.weekend7 FWIW, I think she'll probably get a 10 year visa (if not now, next time around, when you will presumably not put writer under occupation). It's just the govt's tendency to control things that is popping up - I don't think it is part of any grand design.. Oh, and welcome to the world of needing visas and being subject to the whims of immigration authorities..there's a lot of Indians with experience of the vagaries of INS visa policy who will sympathize with the experience.. Badri
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
I got my ten year tourist (T) visa with no problems or delays. PS - The issue may become moot soon, anyway. The Indian govt is planning to introduce visas-on-arrival for citizens of a number of Western countries: http://publication.samachar.com/pub_article.php?id=1268413navname=General%20moreurl=http://publication.samachar.com/samachartop25/general/samachartop25.phphomeurl=http://publication.samachar.com
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Badri Natarajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: subversive sweetie a long term visa. They seemed concerned that she should not write about India and sell it for some reason. I know that there are third world dictatorships lacking a free press that are anxious to control access by foreign journalists, but India? Err..you mean the same way the USA controls access by foreign journalists and makes them get special visas (even those who can otherwise enter with visa waivers)? Tu quoque? The USA is certainly no paragon of visa issuing rectitude, but I don't understand what rationale there might be for the restrictions. Is it just tit-for-tat? I can respect that, I admire the Brazilians for requiring only Americans to get fingerprinted to enter Brazil. Eg: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jun/05/usa.weekend7 FWIW, I think she'll probably get a 10 year visa (if not now, next time around, when you will presumably not put writer under occupation). It's just the govt's tendency to control things that is popping up - I don't think it is part of any grand design.. Oh, and welcome to the world of needing visas and being subject to the whims of immigration authorities..there's a lot of Indians with experience of the vagaries of INS visa policy who will sympathize with the experience.. Some time over beers let me tell you my adventures baiting the US Border Patrol while living in San Diego. I'm no fan of US immigration policy... -- Charles
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
Not that this is gonna help you now...but I *always* ask the Visa Network folks for advice when filling out a visa form (for any country). They've seen it all, and they've seen it more recently than I have. They know for instance not to refer to any specific conference when applying for an Indian visa because the rubber- stampers will focus on those dates and not on your request for a longer interval. They might also have known about the Journalist / Writer issue. In the meantime...hope your appeal works. Have you tried giving it up to the Goddess of Parking (we call her Gladys in my family). She helps with job and apartment searches in addition to parking in SF, so maybe also visas? Danese On Feb 26, 2008, at 12:40 PM, Charles Haynes wrote: On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Badri Natarajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: subversive sweetie a long term visa. They seemed concerned that she should not write about India and sell it for some reason. I know that there are third world dictatorships lacking a free press that are anxious to control access by foreign journalists, but India? Err..you mean the same way the USA controls access by foreign journalists and makes them get special visas (even those who can otherwise enter with visa waivers)? Tu quoque? The USA is certainly no paragon of visa issuing rectitude, but I don't understand what rationale there might be for the restrictions. Is it just tit-for-tat? I can respect that, I admire the Brazilians for requiring only Americans to get fingerprinted to enter Brazil. Eg: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jun/05/usa.weekend7 FWIW, I think she'll probably get a 10 year visa (if not now, next time around, when you will presumably not put writer under occupation). It's just the govt's tendency to control things that is popping up - I don't think it is part of any grand design.. Oh, and welcome to the world of needing visas and being subject to the whims of immigration authorities..there's a lot of Indians with experience of the vagaries of INS visa policy who will sympathize with the experience.. Some time over beers let me tell you my adventures baiting the US Border Patrol while living in San Diego. I'm no fan of US immigration policy... -- Charles
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
Tu quoque? The USA is certainly no paragon of visa issuing rectitude, but I don't understand what rationale there might be for the restrictions. Is it just tit-for-tat? I can respect that, I admire the My point was only that it isn't that unusual even for democratic countries to impose special immigration requirements on media. Some time over beers let me tell you my adventures baiting the US Border Patrol while living in San Diego. I'm no fan of US immigration policy... Sounds like fun..:-) My (personal) experiences of US immigration have actually been quite good..some places (in South America particularly) make it ridiculously difficult even if you actually jump through all the hoops. Atleast for the US (for tourist visas anyway), if you tick all the boxes and jump through the hoops, you'll most likely get your visa - the system is pretty streamlined now.. Eg: Ecuador does not require visas for citizens of most Western countries, but requires visas for Indian citizens (so far, quite standard), but there is a special rule that people of the *Sikh* religion need to get visas, irrespective of their citizenship. There's some pretty bizarre stuff floating around.. B
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
Tu quoque? The USA is certainly no paragon of visa issuing rectitude, but I don't understand what rationale there might be for the restrictions. Is it just tit-for-tat? I can respect that, I admire the My point was only that it isn't that unusual even for democratic countries to impose special immigration requirements on media. Some time over beers let me tell you my adventures baiting the US Border Patrol while living in San Diego. I'm no fan of US immigration policy... Sounds like fun..:-) My (personal) experiences of US immigration have actually been quite good..some places (in South America particularly) make it ridiculously difficult even if you actually jump through all the hoops. Atleast for the US (for tourist visas anyway), if you tick all the boxes and jump through the hoops, you'll most likely get your visa - the system is pretty streamlined now.. Eg: Ecuador does not require visas for citizens of most Western countries, but requires visas for Indian citizens (so far, quite standard), but there is a special rule that people of the *Sikh* religion need to get visas, irrespective of their citizenship. There's some pretty bizarre stuff floating around.. B
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Badri Natarajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point was only that it isn't that unusual even for democratic countries to impose special immigration requirements on media. As may be, but are all writers media? When asked she said she wrote for her personal blog and was not employed as a writer, and still they gave her a journalist visa. With regards to restrictions on journalists, I found this paragraph in the article you cited particularly relevant: How dare you treat an American officer with disrespect? he shouted back, indignantly. Believe me, we have treated you with much more respect than other people. You should go to places like Iran, you'd see a big difference. The irony is that it is only countries like Iran (for example, Cuba, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe) that have a visa requirement for journalists. It is unheard of in open societies, and, in spite of now being enforced in the US, is still so obscure that most journalists are not familiar with it. Thirteen foreign journalists were detained and deported from the US last year, 12 of them from LAX. Countries like Iran, and India? Some time over beers let me tell you my adventures baiting the US Border Patrol while living in San Diego. I'm no fan of US immigration policy... Sounds like fun..:-) My parents were not amused that I was using their car for it... but I now know that the US Border Patrol uses Porsches among other cars. All I did was drive along the closest paved road to the border, and turn my headlights on and off briefly. I was then followed, stopped, and threatened by uniformed Border Patrol agents driving a fascinatingly eclectic collection of unmarked vehicles. Eg: Ecuador does not require visas for citizens of most Western countries, but requires visas for Indian citizens (so far, quite standard), but there is a special rule that people of the *Sikh* religion need to get visas, irrespective of their citizenship. There's some pretty bizarre stuff floating around.. That's totally bizarre. Though I was amused by this sign in a Bangalore bank: No weapons are allowed inside the bank except for kripans by Sikhs. http://www.flickr.com/photos/haynes/871162228/ -- Charles
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
Badri Natarajan [26/02/08 20:32 -]: I got my ten year tourist (T) visa with no problems or delays. PS - The issue may become moot soon, anyway. The Indian govt is planning to introduce visas-on-arrival for citizens of a number of Western countries: I wonder if that will lead to reciprocity in visa issuance relaxations from those countries. Reciprocity is one of the major principles in visa issuance guidelines by the way. Either that or they might just reduce the visa fees to a token amount.
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
Charles Haynes [26/02/08 14:05 -0800]: On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 1:39 PM, Badri Natarajan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point was only that it isn't that unusual even for democratic countries to impose special immigration requirements on media. As may be, but are all writers media? When asked she said she wrote for her personal blog and was not employed as a writer, and still they gave her a journalist visa. Which has bitten at least one dude who thought to get in to speak at a US security conference, from Germany. He put down workshop instructor or something on his immigration form, got put on the next plane back. And bitched about it on politech and /.. And then got all this pointed out to him. Ditto bloggers who claim to be journalists.. they've got bitten by this as well. If there's something that looks like it is independent work and may earn money in there you'll get a work visa. Or a drastically limited tourist visa. It is kind of universal, this .. Just tell Debbie to put housewife or something on her next application like others say. This is not a restriction on journalism. It is a restriction on working. That's totally bizarre. Though I was amused by this sign in a Bangalore bank: No weapons are allowed inside the bank except for kripans by Sikhs. http://www.flickr.com/photos/haynes/871162228/ A small knife with a short blade, typically blunt and without an edge (it is issued to sikh kids in a ceremony kind of like a bar mitzvah, so that'd make sense). Same thing applies to inflight regulations.
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
I wonder if that will lead to reciprocity in visa issuance relaxations from those countries. Reciprocity is one of the major principles in visa issuance guidelines by the way. Either that or they might just reduce the visa fees to a token amount. Yes, but it is only one of several factors. I haven't seen the list of countries, but I think visa on arrival will only be introduced for your usual set of Western countries. Those countries simply will not start issuing visas on arrival to Indians (too many concerns about illegal immigration etc) but hopefully, yes, cheaper visas and some relaxation in the rules. In particular, it would be most useful if they exempted Indian citizens who are resident in one western country from the visa requirement for another (as Switzerland very sensibly already does). And gave multiple entry and longer term visas more easily (like the UK/US 5/10 year visas). Visa on arrival (initially at least) won't apply to other countries, but despite that, there's generally a move (slow but sure) towards liberalizing visa rules for Indians even elsewhere, as countries start to realize that Indians aren't just potential illegal immigrants, but also tourists, businessmen, etc. For eg, Indians were only granted visa-on-arrival privileges to Mauritius from late 2004 (I was one of the early people to use it in early 2005 and was subjected to some pretty detailed questioning). At any rate, there is a benefit for India even in unilaterally relaxing pointless visa rules. After all..the global passport system was only established around the time of the first World War I think..and the visa regime (I believe) only around the 60s and 70s (coinciding with the post-colonial era and large scale migration..) Badri
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
On Wednesday 27 Feb 2008 1:39:41 am Charles Haynes wrote: Debbie put down Writer. Big mistake. I got my ten year tourist (T) visa with no problems or delays. Debbie however only got a 3 month journalist (J) visa. I hope Debbie gets her visa, but I guess you don't know that writers are the baddies of the season in India. Like writing on US visa application form Need to learn how to take off and navigate aircraft in the US Further questions that Debbie might need to answer regarding writing: 1) Are you a secular writer or a communal writer? 2) Have you written anything to hurt the sentiments of the minority community in India? 3) Are you a writer of literature that can rip apart the secular fabric of the nation? 4) Have you drawn any cartoons? 5) Have you written for any cartoonists? 6) Name one city in India 2000 Km away from where you would like to live in which you can be give a safe house in case your writing is a political liability (what with elections coming up soon and all that) shiv
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:48 PM, ss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I hope Debbie gets her visa, Thanks! It turns out that living in India for a year may have taught us useful skills in dealing with the bureaucracy. Rule 1, if you don't get the answer you want at first, be persistent. Keep asking. Fortunately we didn't have to invoke rule 2 - if you still don't get the answer you want, ask a well connected friend for help. They just issued her a 10 year tourist visa. but I guess you don't know that writers are the baddies of the season in India. Live and learn! It's still surprising to us where some of the mines are located. Like writing on US visa application form Need to learn how to take off and navigate aircraft in the US ... landing instruction not required. Further questions that Debbie might need to answer regarding writing: 1) Are you a secular writer or a communal writer? 2) Have you written anything to hurt the sentiments of the minority community in India? 3) Are you a writer of literature that can rip apart the secular fabric of the nation? 4) Have you drawn any cartoons? 5) Have you written for any cartoonists? 6) Name one city in India 2000 Km away from where you would like to live in which you can be give a safe house in case your writing is a political liability (what with elections coming up soon and all that) 7) Are you now, or have you ever been a feminist? Are you or any members of your immediate family from Bangladesh? I suggested she say she wasn't a journalist but a pornographer but she wisely declined my suggestion. -- Charles
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
Congrats! I was *so* happy to get mine last year. Feels so comforting to know I can go to India any old time. D On Feb 26, 2008, at 5:03 PM, Charles Haynes wrote: They just issued her a 10 year tourist visa.
Re: [silk] Writers not welcome in India?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 1:05 AM, Charles Haynes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My point was only that it isn't that unusual even for democratic countries to impose special immigration requirements on media. As may be, but are all writers media? When asked she said she wrote for her personal blog and was not employed as a writer, and still they gave her a journalist visa. Does the average immigration official even know what a blog is ?
