Re: ppm measurement techniques?
George Martin wrote: Place the electrodes, still wet and full of fluff or oxide, on the pieces of pre-weighed paper. Bake in oven to drive off the water. Weigh the combined paper/electrode/dried fluff. (Don't sneeze!) Subtract the paper and you'll get the actual mass of silver that *didn't* go into the water! I think you would have to determine how much of the 'fluff' is silver and how much is 'oxide'... Damn, you're right. If it's all silver oxide on the positive wire, for instance, it will give you an artificially large mass, which you would then subtract from that presumed to be still in the water giving you a lower ppm reading. In fact, if all the sludge on the negative terminal was oxide as well, we could even end up with negative ppm! Alright, keep a thinkin'... Mike [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: ppm measurement techniques?
Hi, What a mind boggling exploration here! So many genius' here and with just a hair of an invite we get a very good education. Of course when your brain looks like fried eggs in a skillet, or was that your brain on drugs?? Well anyway it is stimulating and then the decisions, darn don't they always just pop up when you think you have everything under wraps(grinning) Oh well, just wanted to add that unless the universe has changed the measurements again, there are 10 drops(minums) to a cc (ml) or 15 drops can be used according to your syringes calibration and the formula you are undertaking to convert. Then of course there are 30cc's to an ounce. I just bought a homeopathic formula which said one ounce (29cc's), so it would seem that somewhere there is a conversion table that might actually says there are 29cc's to an ounce. The accepted has been 30cc's but the only thing constant in life is change. Does that mean the truth is a lie? And what do all these changes do to the world of Physics for heavens sake? I'm still making silver and still most grateful to the compassionate care I have received from the people on this list! Found out that I cannot make silver in distilled room temperature water that stays in solution. All things being equal, the same 27 volts with a light in line and over 1 hour with losts of sludge, then filtered-stayed clear as water and tested on TDL as 14 ppm. Turned golden in the darkened jar, then turned to clear with black sludge on the bottom so it appears I made an unstable colloid that turned out to be silver oxide, nasty stuff! I didn't feel well so I was cheating on my usual heating methodology to see. Was pleased at first, now I wonder what you most intelligent people can surmise from this and possibly help explain this phenomena to me. Remembering of course the initial statement about my brain. Good silvering to you-all(grin)(big grin) Life is Fragile. Handle with Prayer Susan -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: ppm measurement techniques?
Great and creative ways to seperate the silver from water, but why not just weigh the solution? 1 litre of pure water weighs 1 Kg so anything over 1000gms is silver. Better yet! You could weigh the electrodes before and after(dried). Anybody got any ideas on how to build a scale sensitive enough to register the small amounts? Is a beam type scale practical? Just a couple thoughts. Regards...Frank M. G. Devour wrote: We could save some money and get quicker results if some of us could do our own ppm testing. Here's a couple of ideas I'd like to discuss and, hopefully, refine enough to make work. The first idea is to evaporate a quantity of CS to be tested, say 100 ml (1/10th of a liter), and weigh the residue. 100 ml of a 20 ppm CS will leave 2 milligrams of residue. To get resolution to 1 ppm would require sensitivity to 1/10th of a milligram. So, ideally, you'll need access to an analytic balance sensitive to tenths of milligrams. This is a cut above your most common lab balances which will only handle milligrams. This type will typically have the measuring pan in a glass enclosure to stop drafts from effecting it. Otherwise you'd have to evaporate a much larger sample. I see putting the CS in a bag, bottle or funnel and allowing it to drip slowly onto a piece of absorbent paper. The paper would be held with clips over a heatlamp or hot air blower to evaporate the water. If you can get hold of some IV drip fittings you'd have the ideal setup, but I assume we could kludge up something with more common materials as well. The paper would need to be weighed before and after, and the results would be the difference between the weights. Now, right off, there are problems with this method. One is taking care that body oils and dust don't contaminate the paper and cause it to weigh more than it is supposed to. You can take care to handle the paper with gloves or tweezers, and perhaps enclose everything to minimize accumulation of dust. Another problem is knowing the exact state the silver is in when you're weighing it. Is it pure silver? Silver oxide? We could try using a few drops of nitric acid to digest the silver to form silver nitrate, which is one of the few silver compounds that is readily soluble in water. Now of course, we'd have to find out how the left over acid reacted with the paper. It would be easy to do a test with just the nitric acid in distilled water, and see how much weight the paper gained, if any. If all the nitrate hangs around then we *might* just be able to subtract it out and call the balance silver. The chemistry could prove to be more complicated, however. Which brings us to the *other* possibility, which is an entirely chemical assay that uses pH or some other characteristic with reagents and an indicator to standardize and visualize the reaction and allow you to measure the silver present by quantity required. If anyone knows a chemist who could help us with that it could save us a lot of effort. So here are some ideas. If I've convinced you an in-house ppm test would be useful, I hope you'll help me get one of these ideas working, or suggest another. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: ppm measurement techniques?
At 11:38 PM 7-27-98 -5, Mike D. wrote: We could save some money and get quicker results if some of us could do our own ppm testing. Here's a couple of ideas I'd like to discuss and, hopefully, refine enough to make work. Mike, My understanding is that ppm testing is only meaningful if the particle *size* is in the desired range. If true, CS particle size testing would need to be done first, or in conjunction with, the ppm testing. I think this requires access to electron microscopy, or a similar accurate test. (How much does a surplus electron microscope sell for ?) Of course, the purity issue is a third parameter involved. -- Another problem is knowing the exact state the silver is in when you're weighing it. Is it pure silver? Silver oxide? [] Which brings us to the *other* possibility, which is an entirely chemical assay that uses pH or some other characteristic with reagents and an indicator to standardize and visualize the reaction and allow you to measure the silver present by quantity required. With regards to 'purity', some types of analytical chemistry testing should be able to determine which types of silver compounds are present. (Some type of spectrography should work, also.) If several silver compounds are present (mixed together), there is also the issue of the need(?) for determining the amounts (ppm) of each. I believe it should be a priority to find a CS production protocol to minimize or entirely eliminate any unwanted compounds, regardless of their characteristics -- while being able to do a simple check of the 'overall' CS purity. Then we'd be able to do our two main tests for CS ppm and (the range of) CS particle sizes. -- If anyone knows a chemist who could help us with that it could save us a lot of effort. Maybe Bruce Marx i...@csprosystems.com would be willing to share some insights from his experiences in testing his HVAC colloidal silver. He has some useful info at: http://csprosystems.com/TechNotespg.htm We could collect a concise list of questions for Bruce. --Bill So here are some ideas. If I've convinced you an in-house ppm test would be useful, I hope you'll help me get one of these ideas working, or suggest another. Be well, Mike D. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
ppm measurement techniques?
We could save some money and get quicker results if some of us could do our own ppm testing. Here's a couple of ideas I'd like to discuss and, hopefully, refine enough to make work. The first idea is to evaporate a quantity of CS to be tested, say 100 ml (1/10th of a liter), and weigh the residue. 100 ml of a 20 ppm CS will leave 2 milligrams of residue. To get resolution to 1 ppm would require sensitivity to 1/10th of a milligram. So, ideally, you'll need access to an analytic balance sensitive to tenths of milligrams. This is a cut above your most common lab balances which will only handle milligrams. This type will typically have the measuring pan in a glass enclosure to stop drafts from effecting it. Otherwise you'd have to evaporate a much larger sample. I see putting the CS in a bag, bottle or funnel and allowing it to drip slowly onto a piece of absorbent paper. The paper would be held with clips over a heatlamp or hot air blower to evaporate the water. If you can get hold of some IV drip fittings you'd have the ideal setup, but I assume we could kludge up something with more common materials as well. The paper would need to be weighed before and after, and the results would be the difference between the weights. Now, right off, there are problems with this method. One is taking care that body oils and dust don't contaminate the paper and cause it to weigh more than it is supposed to. You can take care to handle the paper with gloves or tweezers, and perhaps enclose everything to minimize accumulation of dust. Another problem is knowing the exact state the silver is in when you're weighing it. Is it pure silver? Silver oxide? We could try using a few drops of nitric acid to digest the silver to form silver nitrate, which is one of the few silver compounds that is readily soluble in water. Now of course, we'd have to find out how the left over acid reacted with the paper. It would be easy to do a test with just the nitric acid in distilled water, and see how much weight the paper gained, if any. If all the nitrate hangs around then we *might* just be able to subtract it out and call the balance silver. The chemistry could prove to be more complicated, however. Which brings us to the *other* possibility, which is an entirely chemical assay that uses pH or some other characteristic with reagents and an indicator to standardize and visualize the reaction and allow you to measure the silver present by quantity required. If anyone knows a chemist who could help us with that it could save us a lot of effort. So here are some ideas. If I've convinced you an in-house ppm test would be useful, I hope you'll help me get one of these ideas working, or suggest another. Be well, Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
