Re: [Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About RSTS/E and Command Line.

[Johnny Billquist]

Brett. I suspect you have been dropped from the hecnet mailing list. 
Your mta also have opinions about my address, so I can't even mail you 
directly.


  Johnny

On 2017-10-07 16:43, Brett Bump wrote:


Thanks Johnny,

On Sat, 7 Oct 2017, Johnny Billquist wrote:

First of all, the HECnet mailing list is restricted to subscribed 
members only, so you can't post there until you've subscribed.



There are 10,189 messages in my HECnet folder, starting on 09/11/2007 and
most recent are your TCP/IP updates on April 30 and September 3rd.  There
is a big gap in my list from 2013 until your announcements, maybe I got
lost in the list along the way.


Sorry about the loss.
There are a guest account on both MIM:: and MAGICA::
MIM:: is an emulated PDP-11/74, while MAGICA:: is a real PDP-11/70. 
Both are running RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6, and the guest account have name 
GUEST and password GUEST. They drop you into DCL, so it shouldn't be 
too hard. They are also accessible from the internet as 
Mim.Update.UU.SE and Magica.Update.UU.SE, with telnet access.


One difference that might be relevant is that in RSX, when you connect 
you are not automatically thrown the login prompt. You are at a 
command prompt in logged out mode, where you can both get help, as 
well as log in.



3.  Does anyone have a current HECnet map, so that said students could
.   see how HECnet is set up and navigate a couple of different 
machines?


As far as I know, there is no current map. There have been a couple of 
attempts in the past, but it was a while since I last saw any, and 
they have never been very complete.
The best "picture" is by going to http://mim.update.uu.se/nodedb, 
which is served from MIM (obviously) using Datatrieve, and the source 
of the nodename database, with some additional information. However, 
one have to be away that many machines in the last is not online most 
of the time.


To explore a bit more, one can play with NCP and find out which areas 
are online, and at least some subset of which machines are online. But 
it becomes a question of knowing how to use NCP, how DECnet works, and 
some patience.


Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
 ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Re: [Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About RSTS/E and Command Line.

[Brett Bump]

Thanks Johnny,

On Sat, 7 Oct 2017, Johnny Billquist wrote:

First of all, the HECnet mailing list is restricted to subscribed members 
only, so you can't post there until you've subscribed.



There are 10,189 messages in my HECnet folder, starting on 09/11/2007 and
most recent are your TCP/IP updates on April 30 and September 3rd.  There
is a big gap in my list from 2013 until your announcements, maybe I got
lost in the list along the way.


Sorry about the loss.
There are a guest account on both MIM:: and MAGICA::
MIM:: is an emulated PDP-11/74, while MAGICA:: is a real PDP-11/70. Both are 
running RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6, and the guest account have name GUEST and password 
GUEST. They drop you into DCL, so it shouldn't be too hard. They are also 
accessible from the internet as Mim.Update.UU.SE and Magica.Update.UU.SE, 
with telnet access.


One difference that might be relevant is that in RSX, when you connect you 
are not automatically thrown the login prompt. You are at a command prompt in 
logged out mode, where you can both get help, as well as log in.



3.  Does anyone have a current HECnet map, so that said students could
.   see how HECnet is set up and navigate a couple of different machines?


As far as I know, there is no current map. There have been a couple of 
attempts in the past, but it was a while since I last saw any, and they have 
never been very complete.
The best "picture" is by going to http://mim.update.uu.se/nodedb, which is 
served from MIM (obviously) using Datatrieve, and the source of the nodename 
database, with some additional information. However, one have to be away that 
many machines in the last is not online most of the time.


To explore a bit more, one can play with NCP and find out which areas are 
online, and at least some subset of which machines are online. But it becomes 
a question of knowing how to use NCP, how DECnet works, and some patience.


Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
 ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
___
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Re: [Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About RSTS/E and Command Line.

[Tim Shoppa]

In the past, Sector7, Accelr8, and Boston Business Computing had “DCL shells” 
for Unix, DOS, and Windows. Usually they would do more and also map directory 
names etc. Some may still be available today.

Tim N3QE

> On Oct 7, 2017, at 10:32 AM, Brett Bump <bb...@rsts.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks Kevin,
> 
> Actually, I will have them connect to the 2 linux clusters I have running
> at home (simh RSTS-V4A - RSTS/E V10.1, some RT-11 and DOS-11).  There is
> also some RSTS zip kits they can work with, but I don't have any Vaxen
> running at home (nor any DECnet/HECnet).
> 
> I would love the idea of an open source DCL shell. ;-)  Anyone?
> 
>> On Fri, 6 Oct 2017, khandy21yo wrote:
>> 
>> If all else rails, you can always have them run simh under Linux.
>> Assuming they have their own Linux boxes, or vm ...
>> Many versions of Linux have an old version of simh for easy install (apt-get 
>> install simh) for Debian and Ubuntu, for example. You would only need to 
>> hand out a
>> pre-built image and startup file. Os/8?
>> Dosbox is also available for a msdos she'll
>> Linux has a boatload of shells to play with. Anyone written dcl for linux?
>> Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
>>  Original message 
>> From: Brett Bump <bb...@rsts.org>
>> Date: 10/6/17 1:29 PM (GMT-07:00)
>> To: HECnet <hec...@update.uu.se>
>> Cc: SIMH <simh@trailing-edge.com>
>> Subject: [Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About RSTS/E and Command Line.
>> This is mostly for Tim and Paul, but I figured to cross-post in case any
>> one might have seen this before (before I lob thy Holy Hand Grenade).
>> 1.  In cleaning up some of my old paperwork, I stumbled across a fanfold
>> .   paper copy of "RSTS/E System Programmer's Notebook" page 3 (no 1-2)
>> .   followed by Chapters 1-5 and Appendix A, B pages 1-5.  The bottom of
>> .   the Preface reads:
>> .
>> .   "What follows is a sermon, it is not a Gospel."
>> .
>> .   A section on the first page of Appendix A has a paragraph that says:
>> .
>> .   CAUTION
>> .   The PPEK sequences described in this (sic. I presume PEEK)
>> .   document are not a part of the supported
>> .   functionality of RSTS/E V6C as described
>> .   in the RSTS/E Software Product Description.
>> .
>> Has anyone seen/read this before, know who wrote it, have a digital copy
>> that could be distributed out, or am I destined to type it back in so all
>> can read (it is good material on old yellowed crackly fanfold paper)???
>> 2.  I lost a very good friend (coworker) this week to MI (he was 66).  We
>> .   were coteaching a class online Tuesday night and Wednesday morning he
>> .   was gone. :(  I have inherited 2 of his classes and wish to do the
>> .   best job I can for his students, honor his legacy, and live up to the
>> .   praise and respect he gave me that he disclosed to his students.
>> .
>> One of these classes is on command line and the text is linux specific.
>> While I love my linux machines, there has always been a natural flow when
>> typing commands on pretty much any DEC OS (a person kind of has to acquire
>> a little bit of tourette's tics to be competent with *nix).  Can someone
>> in the group provide me with a few accounts to connect to so his students
>> can see something other than linux???  I think I used to have an account
>> on CHIMPY, but that has been a while back.
>> 3.  Does anyone have a current HECnet map, so that said students could
>> .   see how HECnet is set up and navigate a couple of different machines?
>> That's all.  Sorry to be such a hermit.  I rarely poke my head out into
>> the world, but this time I felt it was for a just cause. :-)
>> Brett
>> ___
>> Simh mailing list
>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
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Re: [Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About RSTS/E and Command Line.

[Brett Bump]

Thanks Kevin,

Actually, I will have them connect to the 2 linux clusters I have running
at home (simh RSTS-V4A - RSTS/E V10.1, some RT-11 and DOS-11).  There is
also some RSTS zip kits they can work with, but I don't have any Vaxen
running at home (nor any DECnet/HECnet).

I would love the idea of an open source DCL shell. ;-)  Anyone?

On Fri, 6 Oct 2017, khandy21yo wrote:


If all else rails, you can always have them run simh under Linux.

Assuming they have their own Linux boxes, or vm ...

Many versions of Linux have an old version of simh for easy install (apt-get 
install simh) for Debian and Ubuntu, for example. You would only need to hand 
out a
pre-built image and startup file. Os/8?

Dosbox is also available for a msdos she'll

Linux has a boatload of shells to play with. Anyone written dcl for linux?




Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A

 Original message 
From: Brett Bump <bb...@rsts.org>
Date: 10/6/17 1:29 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: HECnet <hec...@update.uu.se>
Cc: SIMH <simh@trailing-edge.com>
Subject: [Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About RSTS/E and Command Line.


This is mostly for Tim and Paul, but I figured to cross-post in case any
one might have seen this before (before I lob thy Holy Hand Grenade).

1.  In cleaning up some of my old paperwork, I stumbled across a fanfold
.   paper copy of "RSTS/E System Programmer's Notebook" page 3 (no 1-2)
.   followed by Chapters 1-5 and Appendix A, B pages 1-5.  The bottom of
.   the Preface reads:
.
.   "What follows is a sermon, it is not a Gospel."
.
.   A section on the first page of Appendix A has a paragraph that says:
.
.   CAUTION
.   The PPEK sequences described in this (sic. I presume PEEK)
.   document are not a part of the supported
.   functionality of RSTS/E V6C as described
.   in the RSTS/E Software Product Description.
.
Has anyone seen/read this before, know who wrote it, have a digital copy
that could be distributed out, or am I destined to type it back in so all
can read (it is good material on old yellowed crackly fanfold paper)???

2.  I lost a very good friend (coworker) this week to MI (he was 66).  We
.   were coteaching a class online Tuesday night and Wednesday morning he
.   was gone. :(  I have inherited 2 of his classes and wish to do the
.   best job I can for his students, honor his legacy, and live up to the
.   praise and respect he gave me that he disclosed to his students.
.
One of these classes is on command line and the text is linux specific.
While I love my linux machines, there has always been a natural flow when
typing commands on pretty much any DEC OS (a person kind of has to acquire
a little bit of tourette's tics to be competent with *nix).  Can someone
in the group provide me with a few accounts to connect to so his students
can see something other than linux???  I think I used to have an account
on CHIMPY, but that has been a while back.

3.  Does anyone have a current HECnet map, so that said students could
.   see how HECnet is set up and navigate a couple of different machines?

That's all.  Sorry to be such a hermit.  I rarely poke my head out into
the world, but this time I felt it was for a just cause. :-)

Brett
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Re: [Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About RSTS/E and Command Line.

[Johnny Billquist]

First of all, the HECnet mailing list is restricted to subscribed 
members only, so you can't post there until you've subscribed.


On 2017-10-06 21:29, Brett Bump wrote:


This is mostly for Tim and Paul, but I figured to cross-post in case any
one might have seen this before (before I lob thy Holy Hand Grenade).

1.  In cleaning up some of my old paperwork, I stumbled across a fanfold
.   paper copy of "RSTS/E System Programmer's Notebook" page 3 (no 1-2)
.   followed by Chapters 1-5 and Appendix A, B pages 1-5.  The bottom of
.   the Preface reads:
.
.   "What follows is a sermon, it is not a Gospel."
.
.   A section on the first page of Appendix A has a paragraph that says:
.
.   CAUTION
.   The PPEK sequences described in this (sic. I presume PEEK)
.   document are not a part of the supported
.   functionality of RSTS/E V6C as described
.   in the RSTS/E Software Product Description.
.
Has anyone seen/read this before, know who wrote it, have a digital copy
that could be distributed out, or am I destined to type it back in so all
can read (it is good material on old yellowed crackly fanfold paper)???


I'm deferring this to Paul, who really is the best person to answer. (I 
saw that he did say something on the subject as well.)



2.  I lost a very good friend (coworker) this week to MI (he was 66).  We
.   were coteaching a class online Tuesday night and Wednesday morning he
.   was gone. :(  I have inherited 2 of his classes and wish to do the
.   best job I can for his students, honor his legacy, and live up to the
.   praise and respect he gave me that he disclosed to his students.
.
One of these classes is on command line and the text is linux specific.
While I love my linux machines, there has always been a natural flow when
typing commands on pretty much any DEC OS (a person kind of has to acquire
a little bit of tourette's tics to be competent with *nix).  Can someone
in the group provide me with a few accounts to connect to so his students
can see something other than linux???  I think I used to have an account
on CHIMPY, but that has been a while back.


Sorry about the loss.
There are a guest account on both MIM:: and MAGICA::
MIM:: is an emulated PDP-11/74, while MAGICA:: is a real PDP-11/70. Both 
are running RSX-11M-PLUS V4.6, and the guest account have name GUEST and 
password GUEST. They drop you into DCL, so it shouldn't be too hard. 
They are also accessible from the internet as Mim.Update.UU.SE and 
Magica.Update.UU.SE, with telnet access.


One difference that might be relevant is that in RSX, when you connect 
you are not automatically thrown the login prompt. You are at a command 
prompt in logged out mode, where you can both get help, as well as log in.



3.  Does anyone have a current HECnet map, so that said students could
.   see how HECnet is set up and navigate a couple of different machines?


As far as I know, there is no current map. There have been a couple of 
attempts in the past, but it was a while since I last saw any, and they 
have never been very complete.
The best "picture" is by going to http://mim.update.uu.se/nodedb, which 
is served from MIM (obviously) using Datatrieve, and the source of the 
nodename database, with some additional information. However, one have 
to be away that many machines in the last is not online most of the time.


To explore a bit more, one can play with NCP and find out which areas 
are online, and at least some subset of which machines are online. But 
it becomes a question of knowing how to use NCP, how DECnet works, and 
some patience.


Johnny

--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Re: [Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About RSTS/E and Command Line.

[khandy21yo]

If all else rails, you can always have them run simh under Linux.
Assuming they have their own Linux boxes, or vm ...
Many versions of Linux have an old version of simh for easy install (apt-get 
install simh) for Debian and Ubuntu, for example. You would only need to hand 
out a pre-built image and startup file. Os/8?
Dosbox is also available for a msdos she'll
Linux has a boatload of shells to play with. Anyone written dcl for linux?



Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Brett Bump <bb...@rsts.org> Date: 
10/6/17  1:29 PM  (GMT-07:00) To: HECnet <hec...@update.uu.se> Cc: SIMH 
<simh@trailing-edge.com> Subject: [Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About 
RSTS/E and Command Line. 

This is mostly for Tim and Paul, but I figured to cross-post in case any
one might have seen this before (before I lob thy Holy Hand Grenade).

1.  In cleaning up some of my old paperwork, I stumbled across a fanfold
.   paper copy of "RSTS/E System Programmer's Notebook" page 3 (no 1-2)
.   followed by Chapters 1-5 and Appendix A, B pages 1-5.  The bottom of
.   the Preface reads:
.
.   "What follows is a sermon, it is not a Gospel."
.
.   A section on the first page of Appendix A has a paragraph that says:
.
.   CAUTION
.   The PPEK sequences described in this (sic. I presume PEEK)
.   document are not a part of the supported
.   functionality of RSTS/E V6C as described
.   in the RSTS/E Software Product Description.
.
Has anyone seen/read this before, know who wrote it, have a digital copy
that could be distributed out, or am I destined to type it back in so all
can read (it is good material on old yellowed crackly fanfold paper)???

2.  I lost a very good friend (coworker) this week to MI (he was 66).  We
.   were coteaching a class online Tuesday night and Wednesday morning he
.   was gone. :(  I have inherited 2 of his classes and wish to do the
.   best job I can for his students, honor his legacy, and live up to the
.   praise and respect he gave me that he disclosed to his students.
.
One of these classes is on command line and the text is linux specific.
While I love my linux machines, there has always been a natural flow when
typing commands on pretty much any DEC OS (a person kind of has to acquire
a little bit of tourette's tics to be competent with *nix).  Can someone
in the group provide me with a few accounts to connect to so his students
can see something other than linux???  I think I used to have an account
on CHIMPY, but that has been a while back.

3.  Does anyone have a current HECnet map, so that said students could
.   see how HECnet is set up and navigate a couple of different machines?

That's all.  Sorry to be such a hermit.  I rarely poke my head out into
the world, but this time I felt it was for a just cause. :-)

Brett
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Re: [Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About RSTS/E and Command Line.

[Richard]

In article ,
Brett Bump  writes:

> [...]  Can someone
> in the group provide me with a few accounts to connect to so his students
> can see something other than linux???  I think I used to have an account
> on CHIMPY, but that has been a while back.

I sent this to Brett individually, but others may be interested to
know that you can request logins on the Living Computer Museum's
machines:

-- 
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The Terminals Wiki 
 The Computer Graphics Museum 
  Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) 
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Re: [Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About RSTS/E and Command Line.

[Paul Koning]

> On Oct 6, 2017, at 3:29 PM, Brett Bump  wrote:
> 
> 
> This is mostly for Tim and Paul, but I figured to cross-post in case any
> one might have seen this before (before I lob thy Holy Hand Grenade).
> 
> 1.  In cleaning up some of my old paperwork, I stumbled across a fanfold
> .   paper copy of "RSTS/E System Programmer's Notebook" page 3 (no 1-2)
> .   followed by Chapters 1-5 and Appendix A, B pages 1-5.  The bottom of
> .   the Preface reads:
> .
> .   "What follows is a sermon, it is not a Gospel."
> .
> .   A section on the first page of Appendix A has a paragraph that says:
> .
> .   CAUTION
> .   The PPEK sequences described in this (sic. I presume PEEK)
> .   document are not a part of the supported
> .   functionality of RSTS/E V6C as described
> .   in the RSTS/E Software Product Description.
> .
> Has anyone seen/read this before, know who wrote it, have a digital copy
> that could be distributed out, or am I destined to type it back in so all
> can read (it is good material on old yellowed crackly fanfold paper)???

That doesn't ring bells, and I don't seem to have that document in my files.  I 
was part of RSTS/E development at that time, so if it came from there I might 
have seen it but let it slip my memory.

Could you scan a few pages, perhaps the first few and a couple of pages of that 
appendix, so I can see more of the context?  Just a simple photograph is 
probably good enough if you don't have a scanner.

Typing it all in is hard work (I've done it for un-OCR-able listings, 300 
pages).  If the listing is clean, a scan plus OCR will cut the effort very 
considerably.  Or just a scan, since scans are perfectly readable for humans.  
OCR is only necessary if it's code that you want to be able to compile/assemble 
or other kinds of data that need to be processed by some program.  Not too long 
ago I sent an old listing of "BTSS" (RSTS v0) to another person on this list, 
who scanned it very skillfully.  In other words, those capabilities are around.

> 2.  I lost a very good friend (coworker) this week to MI (he was 66).   ...

I'm sorry to hear that.  I don't have answers on your other two questions.

paul

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[Simh] 5 Questions (3 Questions Sire) About RSTS/E and Command Line.

[Brett Bump]

This is mostly for Tim and Paul, but I figured to cross-post in case any
one might have seen this before (before I lob thy Holy Hand Grenade).

1.  In cleaning up some of my old paperwork, I stumbled across a fanfold
.   paper copy of "RSTS/E System Programmer's Notebook" page 3 (no 1-2)
.   followed by Chapters 1-5 and Appendix A, B pages 1-5.  The bottom of
.   the Preface reads:
.
.   "What follows is a sermon, it is not a Gospel."
.
.   A section on the first page of Appendix A has a paragraph that says:
.
.   CAUTION
.   The PPEK sequences described in this (sic. I presume PEEK)
.   document are not a part of the supported
.   functionality of RSTS/E V6C as described
.   in the RSTS/E Software Product Description.
.
Has anyone seen/read this before, know who wrote it, have a digital copy
that could be distributed out, or am I destined to type it back in so all
can read (it is good material on old yellowed crackly fanfold paper)???

2.  I lost a very good friend (coworker) this week to MI (he was 66).  We
.   were coteaching a class online Tuesday night and Wednesday morning he
.   was gone. :(  I have inherited 2 of his classes and wish to do the
.   best job I can for his students, honor his legacy, and live up to the
.   praise and respect he gave me that he disclosed to his students.
.
One of these classes is on command line and the text is linux specific.
While I love my linux machines, there has always been a natural flow when
typing commands on pretty much any DEC OS (a person kind of has to acquire
a little bit of tourette's tics to be competent with *nix).  Can someone
in the group provide me with a few accounts to connect to so his students
can see something other than linux???  I think I used to have an account
on CHIMPY, but that has been a while back.

3.  Does anyone have a current HECnet map, so that said students could
.   see how HECnet is set up and navigate a couple of different machines?

That's all.  Sorry to be such a hermit.  I rarely poke my head out into
the world, but this time I felt it was for a just cause. :-)

Brett
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