Re: [Simh] Looking for a RIM10B paper-tape image --> papertape reader/punch drivers on KS10

2017-01-23 Thread khandy21yo
Fwiw I did a wps8 to wordperfect converter many years ago. Had a lot of wps8 
disks and they wanted to switch. Had to decode the wps8 format by trial and 
error. Still have the code.


Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Timothe Litt <l...@ieee.org> Date: 
1/23/17  6:31 AM  (GMT-07:00) To: "R. Voorhorst" <r.voorho...@swabhawat.com>, 
simh@trailing-edge.com Subject: Re: [Simh] Looking for a RIM10B paper-tape 
image --> papertape reader/punch drivers on KS10 

I'm not surprised about your findings on prsser/ppsser.  As I
  wrote, the requirement (and the hardware) disappeared before I
  debugged them.  Yes, they were cloned from PTRSER/PTPSER - besides
  the IO instructions, I believe there were some changes to deal
  with the hardware differences; the binary modes in the hardware in
  particular.


There were changes to system initialization in 703/704, where
  almost everything moved to autcon.  I didn't do that work, and I
  didn't look at PxSSER after they were done.  The hardware was long
  gone.  The original work was c.a. 7.01/7.02.


I can't look at this now (I'm swamped with other issues), but if
  you're still having problems when I do, I'm willing to help.


RX2SER definitely does work with real hardware.  I had hardware
  for quite some time; I used it to create RSX20F floppies.  I don't
  think the code for Files-11 survived - but someday I'll look. 
  Somewhere I have code that reads and writes RT11 file systems; I
  think I implemented everything useful.  I also wrote code that
  reads WPS-8 floppies and does a rough translation into Digital
  Standard Runoff.  It was imperfect, but made porting some
  documentation a lot easier.  



On 22-Jan-17 15:42, R. Voorhorst wrote:



  
  
  
  
Ls,
 
about
the drivers for the KS10 Tops10 paper tape reader and punch
the following:
 
They
appeared to be cloned from PTRSER and PTPSER and some KL10
IO/interrupt instructions replaced with equivalent KS10
instructions;
both
were shipped as unsupported (rightly so, because immature)
but apparently not debugged.
 
PRSSER.MAC
for the paper tape reader lacked necessary preamble code an
some init code, but was relatively easy to make workable; it
looks like it works now (Ascii file import from a file
through the Tops10 PTR succeeds) but the other paper tape
formats needs some testing for which the availability of the
punch driver is desirable.
 
PPSSER.MAC
for the punch lacked the same preamble, but is also not
working due to  operational differences between the KL10
interrupt system and the KS10 one, it behaves incompatible
with the unmodified inherited way of interrupt processing
from PTPSER.MAC
Eventually
it will be made workable after some reconstruction of the
driver code to make up for the differences; up to now it is
(still) plagued with a hung device.
 
On
another note, concerning the other drivers for the Unibus
peripherals on the KS10, the also unsupported floppy disk
driver RX2SER.MAC is confirmed working with the somewhat
functionally limited utility RTFLX from the Grenoble
integration tapes from the mid 80’s; one can exchange RT-11
format data with OpenVMS and other systems. 




 
 
Best
regards,
 
R.
Voorhorst
 

  
From:
Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On
  Behalf Of Timothe Litt

Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2017 21:13

To: simh@trailing-edge.com

Subject: Re: [Simh] Looking for a RIM10B
paper-tape image
  

 
I don't have tape images, but I do have
  information.

  

  There seems to be some confusion here.

  RIM10B is a purely software construct; no
hardware understands it. (And few humans understand the
code, though the data format is simple enough.)
  RIM10 is used by hardware READIN mode this is
the simple IOWD n, addr, data, where the last data word is
XCT'd.
  RIM is a PDP-6 software construct that was
replaced by RIM10B - it's horribly inefficient.



  See 
https://ia801605.us.archive.org/18/items/bitsavers_decpdp10TOguageHandbook021973AsmRefmacro_5710828/02_1973AsmRef_macro_text.pdf

Re: [Simh] Looking for a RIM10B paper-tape image --> papertape reader/punch drivers on KS10

2017-01-23 Thread Timothe Litt
I'm not surprised about your findings on prsser/ppsser.  As I wrote, the
requirement (and the hardware) disappeared before I debugged them.  Yes,
they were cloned from PTRSER/PTPSER - besides the IO instructions, I
believe there were some changes to deal with the hardware differences;
the binary modes in the hardware in particular.

There were changes to system initialization in 703/704, where almost
everything moved to autcon.  I didn't do that work, and I didn't look at
PxSSER after they were done.  The hardware was long gone.  The original
work was c.a. 7.01/7.02.

I can't look at this now (I'm swamped with other issues), but if you're
still having problems when I do, I'm willing to help.

RX2SER definitely does work with real hardware.  I had hardware for
quite some time; I used it to create RSX20F floppies.  I don't think the
code for Files-11 survived - but someday I'll look.  Somewhere I have
code that reads and writes RT11 file systems; I think I implemented
everything useful.  I also wrote code that reads WPS-8 floppies and does
a rough translation into Digital Standard Runoff.  It was imperfect, but
made porting some documentation a lot easier. 

On 22-Jan-17 15:42, R. Voorhorst wrote:
>
> Ls,
>
>  
>
> about the drivers for the KS10 Tops10 paper tape reader and punch the
> following:
>
>  
>
> They appeared to be cloned from PTRSER and PTPSER and some KL10
> IO/interrupt instructions replaced with equivalent KS10 instructions;
>
> both were shipped as unsupported (rightly so, because immature) but
> apparently not debugged.
>
>  
>
> PRSSER.MAC for the paper tape reader lacked necessary preamble code an
> some init code, but was relatively easy to make workable; it looks
> like it works now (Ascii file import from a file through the Tops10
> PTR succeeds) but the other paper tape formats needs some testing for
> which the availability of the punch driver is desirable.
>
>  
>
> PPSSER.MAC for the punch lacked the same preamble, but is also not
> working due to  operational differences between the KL10 interrupt
> system and the KS10 one, it behaves incompatible with the unmodified
> inherited way of interrupt processing from PTPSER.MAC
>
> Eventually it will be made workable after some reconstruction of the
> driver code to make up for the differences; up to now it is (still)
> plagued with a hung device.
>
>  
>
> On another note, concerning the other drivers for the Unibus
> peripherals on the KS10, the also unsupported floppy disk driver
> RX2SER.MAC is confirmed working with the somewhat functionally limited
> utility RTFLX from the Grenoble integration tapes from the mid 80’s;
> one can exchange RT-11 format data with OpenVMS and other systems.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Best regards,
>
>  
>
> R. Voorhorst
>
>  
>
> *From:*Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Timothe Litt
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2017 21:13
> *To:* simh@trailing-edge.com
> *Subject:* Re: [Simh] Looking for a RIM10B paper-tape image
>
>  
>
> I don't have tape images, but I do have information.
>
> There seems to be some confusion here.
>
>   * RIM10B is a purely software construct; no hardware understands it.
> (And few humans understand the code, though the data format is
> simple enough.)
>   * RIM10 is used by hardware READIN mode this is the simple IOWD n,
> addr, data, where the last data word is XCT'd.
>   * RIM is a PDP-6 software construct that was replaced by RIM10B -
> it's horribly inefficient.
>
>
> See
> https://ia801605.us.archive.org/18/items/bitsavers_decpdp10TOguageHandbook021973AsmRefmacro_5710828/02_1973AsmRef_macro_text.pdf
> P. 288  (6.2.2) thru p. 292 for details.
>
> Readin mode for the PTR (KA10/KI10) sets the reader to (hardware)
> binary mode, reads one IOWD,  does a BLKI until exahusted, and XCTs
> the last word loaded.  Typically, that loads the RIM10B loader into
> the ACs, and executes the JRST in location 16 of RIM10B.
>
> It is certainly possible that ITS has a different loader (with its own
> format), but the hardware is fixed.  It would be challenging to do
> better than Dave Gross's loader...
>
> The real KS console has no support for booting from paper tape.
>
> I can't say what MIDAS produces, but the hardware is simple - if
> asymmetric and not entirely obvious.
>
> The PDP-10 PTR/PTP has two modes: The bootstrap uses binary mode.
> In binary mode, channel 8 must be punched, channel 7 is ignored, and
> channels 6-1 are data.  6 frames are read (MS first) to form a 36-bit
> word.
>
> In alphanumeric mode, all 8 channels are used, but only 1 byte is read
> per word (right justified).
>
> The punch wants one frame per word (again, right justified) in any
> mode.  Binary mode always punches channel 8, never punches channel 7
> and punches the low 6 bits.  AN mode punches all 8 as given.
>
> TOPS-10 turned those 2 hardware modes into 5 data modes visible to the
> (UUO) user - PIP has switches for them.  Bits stored on disk can be in
> modes with the same