Re: [Simh] XServers and Simh (Somewhat OT)

2016-11-14 Thread khandy21yo
Linux works as a host for xterm  fairly well, depending on the terminal. It can 
also be used as an xterm I also offers  a pc.
To start a window manager on a remote xterm  setenv DISPLAY xterm:0.0   mwm &
Using Linux as an xterm usually requires enabling remote access, as most 
versions of Linux consider remote access as a severe security problem. Usually 
requires editing 4 or so configuration files.

 Original message From: Robert Thomas <r...@asthomas.com> Date: 
11/14/16  7:34 AM  (GMT-07:00) To: simh@trailing-edge.com Subject: Re: [Simh] 
XServers and Simh (Somewhat OT) 
We serve X-Windows from SIMH VAX running VMS 7.3.  There are many flavors of 
X-servers that work.  The most challenging part of using such is getting 
networking to work on SIMH/Vax. Our experience is under Windows: 1) EXCURSION 
(DEC provided with VMS V7 through V7.3 on the Pathworks disk – can be installed 
on its own requiring no special privileges or registry setting).  Provides a 
simple X-server.2) MobaXterm3) Xming4) vcxsrv5) Cygwin-x All of the above are 
free and work with some issues.  EXCURSION is color limited and does not 
properly support plane masks. MobaCterm, Xming, vcxsrv, and Cygwin-X are all 
implementation of XORG’s x-server.  They do not fully support PC keyboards 
emulating LK405 keyboards, i.e. VT400 emulation.  The numeric keypad and 
functions keys are not fully mapped.  Additionally not all of the 
DECwindows/Motif fonts are available.  These are identical to most of the LINUX 
X-Servers. All of the above support local window managers with various modes of 
operation (All in one windows, multiple windows, etc.) as well as a remote 
window manager, e.g. DECwindows/Motif. It is easy to start up a DECterm or the 
DECWindows/Motif CDE.  The steps are to: 1) Start the X-server on your 
workstation/PC allowing connections from the desired clients.2) Log into the 
VMS system using either the mechanism within the X-server environment or 
putty.3) Create a display to the X-server:   $ set 
display/create/trans=tcpip/perm/node=4) To start the CDE 
(DECwindows/Motif window manager):   $ @cde$path:xsession    To 
start a DECterm:   $ create/term/detach We are evaluating EXCEED as 
an x-server.  So far it has full functionality turning a PC into a full 
function X-server, i.e. like having a Vaxstation or Alphastation on your PC.  
Its only drawback so far is its cost being over $500 per seat. BTW:  All of the 
above work on Windows even in Windows virtual machines. Sincerely,Robert F. 
Thomas 44 Industrial Way 
Norwood, MA USA 02062
(  Office Phone - (781) 329-9200
* mail to: r...@asthomas.com [Disclaimer] WARNING- This document may contain 
technical data whose export is restricted by the Arms Export Control Act (Title 
22, U.S.C., SEQ 2751 ET SEQ) or the Export Administration Act (Title 50, 
U.S.C., APP 2401-2420). Violations of these export laws are subject to severe 
criminal penalties.
This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended solely for the addressee. It 
may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other 
privilege. If you are not the intended addressee you must not use, disclose, or 
copy this transmission. This E-mail is not intended to impose nor shall it be 
construed as imposing any legally binding obligation upon A. S. Thomas, Inc. 
("AST"), and/or any subsidiaries thereof or associated companies therof. 
Neither AST nor any subsidiaries thereof or associated companies thereof gives 
any representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of the 
contents of this E-mail. AST shall not be held liable to any person resulting 
from the use of any information contained in this E-mail and shall not be 
liable to any person who acts or omits to do anything in reliance upon it.  
Unendorsed export or re-export is prohibited.  ___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] XServers and Simh (Somewhat OT)

2016-11-14 Thread Wilm Boerhout
eXcursion for Windows is not free. It was licensed as part of the 
Pathworks Client License. But -apart from me, obviously- knows that 
nowadays? And who is alive to hunt license violations. Still...

*
**/Wilm*

Robert Thomas schreef op 14-11-2016 om 15:34:


We serve X-Windows from SIMH VAX running VMS 7.3.  There are many 
flavors of X-servers that work.  The most challenging part of using 
such is getting networking to work on SIMH/Vax. Our experience is 
under Windows:


1) EXCURSION (DEC provided with VMS V7 through V7.3 on the Pathworks 
disk – can be installed on its own requiring no special privileges or 
registry setting). Provides a simple X-server.


2) MobaXterm

3) Xming

4) vcxsrv

5) Cygwin-x

All of the above are free and work with some issues.  EXCURSION is 
color limited and does not properly support plane masks.


MobaCterm, Xming, vcxsrv, and Cygwin-X are all implementation of 
XORG’s x-server.  They do not fully support PC keyboards emulating 
LK405 keyboards, i.e. VT400 emulation.  The numeric keypad and 
functions keys are not fully mapped.  Additionally not all of the 
DECwindows/Motif fonts are available.  These are identical to most of 
the LINUX X-Servers.


All of the above support local window managers with various modes of 
operation (All in one windows, multiple windows, etc.) as well as a 
remote window manager, e.g. DECwindows/Motif.


It is easy to start up a DECterm or the DECWindows/Motif CDE.  The 
steps are to:


1) Start the X-server on your workstation/PC allowing connections from 
the desired clients.


2) Log into the VMS system using either the mechanism within the 
X-server environment or putty.


3) Create a display to the X-server:

   $ set display/create/trans=tcpip/perm/node=

4) To start the CDE (DECwindows/Motif window manager):

   $ @cde$path:xsession

To start a DECterm:

   $ create/term/detach

We are evaluating EXCEED as an x-server. So far it has full 
functionality turning a PC into a full function X-server, i.e. like 
having a Vaxstation or Alphastation on your PC.  Its only drawback so 
far is its cost being over $500 per seat.


BTW:  All of the above work on Windows even in Windows virtual machines.

Sincerely,

Robert F. Thomas

*cid:image001.gif@01C71ABB.312C1E90***

44 Industrial Way
Norwood, MA USA 02062
(Office Phone - (781) 329-9200
*mail to: r...@asthomas.com

[Disclaimer] WARNING- This document may contain technical data whose 
export is restricted by the Arms Export Control Act (Title 22, U.S.C., 
SEQ 2751 ET SEQ) or the Export Administration Act (Title 50, U.S.C., 
APP 2401-2420). Violations of these export laws are subject to severe 
criminal penalties.
This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended solely for the 
addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, 
professional, or other privilege. If you are not the intended 
addressee you must not use, disclose, or copy this transmission. This 
E-mail is not intended to impose nor shall it be construed as imposing 
any legally binding obligation upon A. S. Thomas, Inc. ("AST"), and/or 
any subsidiaries thereof or associated companies therof. Neither AST 
nor any subsidiaries thereof or associated companies thereof gives any 
representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness of the 
contents of this E-mail. AST shall not be held liable to any person 
resulting from the use of any information contained in this E-mail and 
shall not be liable to any person who acts or omits to do anything in 
reliance upon it.  Unendorsed export or re-export is prohibited.




___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh



___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] XServers and Simh (Somewhat OT)

2016-11-14 Thread Robert Thomas
We serve X-Windows from SIMH VAX running VMS 7.3.  There are many flavors of
X-servers that work.  The most challenging part of using such is getting
networking to work on SIMH/Vax. Our experience is under Windows:

 

1) EXCURSION (DEC provided with VMS V7 through V7.3 on the Pathworks disk -
can be installed on its own requiring no special privileges or registry
setting).  Provides a simple X-server.

2) MobaXterm

3) Xming

4) vcxsrv

5) Cygwin-x

 

All of the above are free and work with some issues.  EXCURSION is color
limited and does not properly support plane masks.

 

MobaCterm, Xming, vcxsrv, and Cygwin-X are all implementation of XORG's
x-server.  They do not fully support PC keyboards emulating LK405 keyboards,
i.e. VT400 emulation.  The numeric keypad and functions keys are not fully
mapped.  Additionally not all of the DECwindows/Motif fonts are available.
These are identical to most of the LINUX X-Servers.

 

All of the above support local window managers with various modes of
operation (All in one windows, multiple windows, etc.) as well as a remote
window manager, e.g. DECwindows/Motif.

 

It is easy to start up a DECterm or the DECWindows/Motif CDE.  The steps are
to:

 

1) Start the X-server on your workstation/PC allowing connections from the
desired clients.

2) Log into the VMS system using either the mechanism within the X-server
environment or putty.

3) Create a display to the X-server:

   $ set display/create/trans=tcpip/perm/node=

4) To start the CDE (DECwindows/Motif window manager):

   $ @cde$path:xsession

To start a DECterm:

   $ create/term/detach

 

We are evaluating EXCEED as an x-server.  So far it has full functionality
turning a PC into a full function X-server, i.e. like having a Vaxstation or
Alphastation on your PC.  Its only drawback so far is its cost being over
$500 per seat.

 

BTW:  All of the above work on Windows even in Windows virtual machines.

 

Sincerely,

Robert F. Thomas



 44 Industrial Way 
Norwood, MA USA 02062
*  Office Phone - (781) 329-9200
* mail to: r...@asthomas.com

 

[Disclaimer] WARNING- This document may contain technical data whose export
is restricted by the Arms Export Control Act (Title 22, U.S.C., SEQ 2751 ET
SEQ) or the Export Administration Act (Title 50, U.S.C., APP 2401-2420).
Violations of these export laws are subject to severe criminal penalties.
This e-mail is strictly confidential and intended solely for the addressee.
It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other
privilege. If you are not the intended addressee you must not use, disclose,
or copy this transmission. This E-mail is not intended to impose nor shall
it be construed as imposing any legally binding obligation upon A. S.
Thomas, Inc. ("AST"), and/or any subsidiaries thereof or associated
companies therof. Neither AST nor any subsidiaries thereof or associated
companies thereof gives any representation or warranty as to the accuracy or
completeness of the contents of this E-mail. AST shall not be held liable to
any person resulting from the use of any information contained in this
E-mail and shall not be liable to any person who acts or omits to do
anything in reliance upon it.  Unendorsed export or re-export is prohibited.


 

___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] XServers and Simh (Somewhat OT)

2016-11-13 Thread Peter Allan
Ray,

Clem gave some good advice about checking that you can display anything at
all from a remote computer on you Ubuntu system.

If you want to get the full DECwindows login experience, then Jordi's
e-mail is the way to go.

On the other hand, if all you want to do (at least to start with) is to
display a DECterm on your Ubuntu box, then do the following:
1) Log into the system running VMS by whatever means
2) Type SET DISPLAY/CREATE/TRANSPORT=TCPIP/NODE=
3) Type CREATE/TERM

This should pop up a DECterm window on the screen of your Ubuntu system.
You can now run VMS commands on the remote system.

I happen to have been doing this myself over the last couple of days in
order to iron out the last few glitches in getting my keyboard (a real DEC
LK461) to work exactly as though it was plugged into a VAXstation.

Although I have described how to get a DECterm to pop up, this works
equally well for any X application such as the DECwindows clock, xev, ...
that is running on the VMS system.

Cheers

Peter Allan

On 12 November 2016 at 02:23, Ray Jewhurst  wrote:

> I would really like to try out DECMotif but I am finding that using QVSS
> is hard to read and I lose the ability to cut and paste. What I was
> wondering is if you could in Ubuntu Linux use XServer to make a Xwindows
> terminal window?  I know next to nothing about XWindows except using it
> under a Windows manager so I need a lot of help with this, if it is
> possible.
>
> Thanks In Advance
>
> Ray
>
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

Re: [Simh] XServers and Simh (Somewhat OT)

2016-11-12 Thread Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
Try something like:

X :1 -query  

Add geometry and depth parameters as needed. You must also enable the XDCMP 
server in VMS (either in tcp services or multinet). IIRC the IP address of your 
display (X Server) machine must be back-translatable from VMS. With a little 
bit of luck you will get the VMS DECWindows login screen.

Jordi Guillaumes Pons


El 12 nov 2016, a les 6:55, Clem Cole  va escriure:
> 
> On Fri, Nov 11, 2016 at 7:23 PM, Ray Jewhurst  wrote:
>> What I was wondering is if you could in Ubuntu Linux use XServer to make a 
>> Xwindows terminal window? 
> 
> ​In theory yes X splits the display and the creation of the data into two 
> parts (server and client -- warning client and server in the X sense may seem 
> backwards - the client codes are running on the remote machine(s) and the X 
> server is running locally).   If the Xserver on any OS is properly set up, 
> DECwindows (which is a set of client programs) should be able to use that as 
> it's display...
> 
> That said... X has changed over the years and a number of features were 
> removed from the Xserver when Keith Packard rewrote it about 3-4 years ago.   
> Keith was one of the original XServer authors so he had a pretty good idea of 
> what features in the Xserver were important, and what were not.   That said, 
> it is possible DECwindows mi​ght need a feature that is no longer supported 
> (YMMV as folks like to say).
> 
> This is what I would do
> 
> Set up up your Linux box as an Xserver.  Then using a modern X implementation 
> on a different client system across the network, make sure you can 
> run/display something simple like the Xeyes program, and then if that works 
> try Xterm, which requires a little more and then try a simple window manager 
> like twm.   Once you are convinced you have the Xserver configured for 
> network access and its working properly with remote clients, then try to make 
> it talk to the older clients and see what happens.  
> 
> Good Luck,
> Clem
> 
> ___
> Simh mailing list
> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh

[Simh] XServers and Simh (Somewhat OT)

2016-11-11 Thread Ray Jewhurst
I would really like to try out DECMotif but I am finding that using QVSS is
hard to read and I lose the ability to cut and paste. What I was wondering
is if you could in Ubuntu Linux use XServer to make a Xwindows terminal
window?  I know next to nothing about XWindows except using it under a
Windows manager so I need a lot of help with this, if it is possible.

Thanks In Advance

Ray
___
Simh mailing list
Simh@trailing-edge.com
http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh