Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2018-01-23 21:18, Bryan Davies wrote:

But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?


Kermit comes in source form. Text is easier to transfer. Kermit-11 also 
exists as a binary encoded in a very simple format as text, and then you 
have a very simple decoding program which recreates the binary from that.

All available if you check in the Kermit distribution.

  Johnny



On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons 
> wrote:



Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
j...@jordi.guillaumes.name 
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES




On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning > wrote:

SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.

There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via
paper tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader. 
That's not as good an answer for binaries though it could be made

to work.

Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have
a program that can write disk images in a format the target OS
knows.  That's easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File
Exchange) program to do this.  There's an older version written in
C, a newer one written in Python 3.  For the former, look in
svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the latter, in
svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's documentation for
both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug reports,
especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)


There’s always kermit… 





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  ||  on a psychedelic trip
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2018-01-23 19:13, Bryan Davies wrote:
Ok.  It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much 
indistinguishable from the real thing.


Should be. :-)

I'm now looking for something to run on it.  iirc the old RSTS 
distributions came with a games account -  [20,20] or something like 
that,  but the V10 distribution doesn't have this.  It only has the 
[1,2] utilities.


[66,66] is what I remember from back in the day when I was using RSTS/E. 
But if that was "official" in any way I don't know.
You can always download lots of stuff from the internet otherwise. 
Bitsavers for example. I have lots of RSX stuff around, some of that 
should work on RSTS/E as well. And there is plenty of RT-11 stuff 
around, which should also work fine on RSTS/E.


Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting 
software?  I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK 
format in order for Simh to load them as a disk?  Or is there another 
way to point one of the emulated devices to a file on the host?


Kermit? DECnet?


BTW I don't really want Adventure as we have that running on a MicroVAX.


You should have both Adventure and Dungeon, of course...

And if anyone could take some time to check what is needed to get ZEMU 
running on RSTS/E, then you'd have essentially all Infocom games, as 
well as anything written in Inform.

(ZEMU works fine on RSX and RT-11 today.)

  Johnny



Rgds

Bryan

On 23 January 2018 at 17:22, khandy21yo <khandy2...@gmail.com 
<mailto:khandy2...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created.
A couple of vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A

 Original message 
From: Paul Koning <paulkon...@comcast.net
<mailto:paulkon...@comcast.net>>
Date: 1/23/18 7:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se <mailto:b...@softjar.se>>
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com <mailto:simh@trailing-edge.com>, Mark
Pizzolato <m...@infocomm.com <mailto:m...@infocomm.com>>
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access



 > On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se
<mailto:b...@softjar.se>> wrote:
 >
 > Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail?
Also - with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the
simulation does?
 >
 > And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far
back as V4).

paul


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  ||  on a psychedelic trip
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Johnny Billquist]

On 2018-01-23 18:22, khandy21yo wrote:
Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created. A 
couple of vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?


If we're talking a PDP-11/70, three vacuum cleaners won't come close.

  Johnny



Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A

 Original message 
From: Paul Koning <paulkon...@comcast.net>
Date: 1/23/18 7:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se>
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com, Mark Pizzolato <m...@infocomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access



 > On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se> wrote:
 >
 > Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also 
- with regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the 
simulation does?

 >
 > And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back 
as V4).


paul


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  ||  on a psychedelic trip
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bob Eager]

If you know how to handle magtapes on RSTS, you can make a tape image.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018 21:43:03 +
Bryan Davies  wrote:

> That's all handy information.  When I've done it I'll make a DSK file
> so others can mount it directly into Simh.
> 
> Bryan
> 
> On 23 Jan 2018 21:39, "Christian Brunschen" 
> wrote:
> 
> > On 23 January 2018 at 21:34, Mark Abene  wrote:
> >
> >> I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you
> >> could either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an
> >> editor.
> >>
> >
> > The correct tense actually seems to be "has":
> >
> > http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html
> >
> >> Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11 was (and is) a 16-bit mini-
> >> or microcomputer used in applications ranging from embedded device
> >> control to general-purpose timesharing. Several different Kermit
> >> programs are available for the PDP-11.
> >>
> >> *Kermit-11* is the Kermit software for Digital Equipment
> >> Corporation PDP-11 operating systems: RT-11, RSX-11, RSTS/E, IAS,
> >> P/OS, and (not a DEC OS) TSX+. Kermit-11 was written by Brian
> >> Nelson of the University of Toledo, Ohio, circa 1984-89, in PDP-11
> >> assembly language, Macro-11. Separate programs, listed below, are
> >> available for other PDP-11 operating systems like UNIX and MUMPS.
> >>
> >> The Kermit-11 source code is available at our ftp site
> >>  in the kermit/b
> >>  subdirectory as k11*.mac,
> >> and you can find prebuilt-binaries for various operating systems
> >> and configurations inkermit/bin/
> >> , as k11*.tsk or k11*.sav.
> >> If you are unfamiliar with FTP, or have problems with it, READ
> >> THIS . There are also
> >> various utilities -- hex encoders and decoders, etc -- written
> >> Macro-11, Fortran, and Basic in the kermit/b directory, along with
> >> all the Kermit-11 text files, whose names all start with "k11".
> >>
> > :)
> >
> >
> >> That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.
> >>
> >
> > So that should all be still doable in much the same way now as it
> > was then!
> >
> >
> >> -Mark
> >>
> >
> > // Christian
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Bryan Davies
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target
> >>> machine?
> >>>
> >>> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <
> >>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
> >>>
> 
>  Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>  j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
>  HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
> 
> 
> 
>  On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning 
>  wrote:
> 
>  SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
> 
>  There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via
>  paper tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape
>  reader.  That's not as good an answer for binaries though it
>  could be made to work.
> 
>  Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you
>  have a program that can write disk images in a format the target
>  OS knows.  That's easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS
>  File Exchange) program to do this.  There's an older version
>  written in C, a newer one written in Python 3.  For the former,
>  look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the
>  latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's
>  documentation for both in those respective directories.
>  (Commments and bug reports, especially for the new version,
>  would be appreciated.)
> 
> 
>  There?s always kermit?
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> Simh mailing list
> >>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> >>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Simh@trailing-edge.com
> >> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
> >>
> >
> >

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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

That's all handy information.  When I've done it I'll make a DSK file so
others can mount it directly into Simh.

Bryan

On 23 Jan 2018 21:39, "Christian Brunschen"  wrote:

> On 23 January 2018 at 21:34, Mark Abene  wrote:
>
>> I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you could
>> either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an editor.
>>
>
> The correct tense actually seems to be "has":
>
> http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html
>
>> Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11 was (and is) a 16-bit mini- or
>> microcomputer used in applications ranging from embedded device control to
>> general-purpose timesharing. Several different Kermit programs are
>> available for the PDP-11.
>>
>> *Kermit-11* is the Kermit software for Digital Equipment Corporation
>> PDP-11 operating systems: RT-11, RSX-11, RSTS/E, IAS, P/OS, and (not a DEC
>> OS) TSX+. Kermit-11 was written by Brian Nelson of the University of
>> Toledo, Ohio, circa 1984-89, in PDP-11 assembly language, Macro-11.
>> Separate programs, listed below, are available for other PDP-11 operating
>> systems like UNIX and MUMPS.
>>
>> The Kermit-11 source code is available at our ftp site
>>  in the kermit/b
>>  subdirectory as k11*.mac, and you
>> can find prebuilt-binaries for various operating systems and configurations
>> inkermit/bin/ , as k11*.tsk or
>> k11*.sav. If you are unfamiliar with FTP, or have problems with it, READ
>> THIS . There are also
>> various utilities -- hex encoders and decoders, etc -- written Macro-11,
>> Fortran, and Basic in the kermit/b directory, along with all the
>> Kermit-11 text files, whose names all start with "k11".
>>
> :)
>
>
>> That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.
>>
>
> So that should all be still doable in much the same way now as it was then!
>
>
>> -Mark
>>
>
> // Christian
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Bryan Davies 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
>>>
>>> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <
>>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
>>>

 Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
 j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
 HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES



 On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:

 SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.

 There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper
 tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as
 good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.

 Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a
 program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's
 easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
 this.  There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
 3.  For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
 for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's
 documentation for both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug
 reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)


 There’s always kermit…

>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Simh mailing list
>>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
>>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Simh mailing list
>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Christian Brunschen]

On 23 January 2018 at 21:34, Mark Abene  wrote:

> I remember Columbia had an ASCII-encoded kermit binary which you could
> either print/load as paper tape, or copy/paste into an editor.
>

The correct tense actually seems to be "has":

http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/pdp11.html

> Digital Equipment Corporation's PDP-11 was (and is) a 16-bit mini- or
> microcomputer used in applications ranging from embedded device control to
> general-purpose timesharing. Several different Kermit programs are
> available for the PDP-11.
>
> *Kermit-11* is the Kermit software for Digital Equipment Corporation
> PDP-11 operating systems: RT-11, RSX-11, RSTS/E, IAS, P/OS, and (not a DEC
> OS) TSX+. Kermit-11 was written by Brian Nelson of the University of
> Toledo, Ohio, circa 1984-89, in PDP-11 assembly language, Macro-11.
> Separate programs, listed below, are available for other PDP-11 operating
> systems like UNIX and MUMPS.
>
> The Kermit-11 source code is available at our ftp site
>  in the kermit/b
>  subdirectory as k11*.mac, and you
> can find prebuilt-binaries for various operating systems and configurations
> inkermit/bin/ , as k11*.tsk or
> k11*.sav. If you are unfamiliar with FTP, or have problems with it, READ
> THIS . There are also various
> utilities -- hex encoders and decoders, etc -- written Macro-11, Fortran,
> and Basic in the kermit/b directory, along with all the Kermit-11 text
> files, whose names all start with "k11".
>
:)


> That's how I loaded KERMIT on my old RSTS/E V7 system.
>

So that should all be still doable in much the same way now as it was then!


> -Mark
>

// Christian


>
>
> On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Bryan Davies 
> wrote:
>
>> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
>>
>> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <
>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
>>> HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:
>>>
>>> SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
>>>
>>> There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper
>>> tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as
>>> good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
>>>
>>> Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a
>>> program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's
>>> easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
>>> this.  There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
>>> 3.  For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
>>> for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's
>>> documentation for both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug
>>> reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
>>>
>>>
>>> There’s always kermit…
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Simh mailing list
>> Simh@trailing-edge.com
>> http://mailman.trailing-edge.com/mailman/listinfo/simh
>>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Tim Shoppa]

In the “olden days”, by floppy, tape, or paper tape. In most cases you could 
order the media through Kermit project at Columbia University. In the case of 
PDP-11s, Sometimes rolled in with DECUS SIG tape trees.

Tim N3QE

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 3:18 PM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> 
> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
> 
>> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
>> HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:
>>> 
>>> SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
>>> 
>>> There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper tape, 
>>> with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as good an 
>>> answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
>>> 
>>> Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a 
>>> program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's 
>>> easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do 
>>> this.  There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python 
>>> 3.  For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, 
>>> for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's 
>>> documentation for both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug 
>>> reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
>> 
>> There’s always kermit… 
> 
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Clem Cole]

You tried to get it from someone else for your system often
PaperTape/Floppy/MagTape as Paul described.
By many times connecting the terminal to another system and 'printing' it.
Often a glass TTY had a second 'printer port' and if you did some work, you
could type it out.  Truth is it was probably a boot strap.   You typed in
something that was a subset, maybe just a file transfer.

Many Kermits were hacks from a different one from a different version.
 This was true until ckermit appeared, which was fairly late in Kermit's
life, but was the fanciest.   Then people started to create versions of
ckermit for specific systems.  They would use the older (like functional
one) to bring over the newer one.

Clem
ᐧ

On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 3:18 PM, Bryan Davies 
wrote:

> But I've always wondered - how do you get Kermit onto the target machine?
>
> On 23 January 2018 at 20:16, Jordi Guillaumes Pons <
> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name> wrote:
>
>>
>> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
>> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
>> HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:
>>
>> SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
>>
>> There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper
>> tape, with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as
>> good an answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
>>
>> Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a
>> program that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's
>> easy in this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do
>> this.  There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python
>> 3.  For the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6,
>> for the latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's
>> documentation for both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug
>> reports, especially for the new version, would be appreciated.)
>>
>>
>> There’s always kermit…
>>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Jordi Guillaumes Pons]

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES



> On 23 Jan 2018, at 21:13, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
> SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.
> 
> There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper tape, 
> with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as good an 
> answer for binaries though it could be made to work.
> 
> Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a program 
> that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's easy in 
> this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do this.  
> There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python 3.  For 
> the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the 
> latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's documentation for 
> both in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug reports, especially 
> for the new version, would be appreciated.)

There’s always kermit… ___
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Paul Koning]

SAV files would be binaries (RT11 format).  BAS are source files.

There are a number of solutions.  Text files you could load via paper tape, 
with the text file attached to the SIMH tape reader.  That's not as good an 
answer for binaries though it could be made to work.

Magtape or disk are better solutions.  Disk works well if you have a program 
that can write disk images in a format the target OS knows.  That's easy in 
this case; you can use my "flx" (RSTS File Exchange) program to do this.  
There's an older version written in C, a newer one written in Python 3.  For 
the former, look in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/branches/V2.6, for the 
latter, in svn://akdesign.dyndns.org/flx/trunk.  There's documentation for both 
in those respective directories.  (Commments and bug reports, especially for 
the new version, would be appreciated.)

paul

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 2:39 PM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> 
> Yes I've found a few, but they are mostly .sav or .bas files.
> 
> How do I get them into Simh without keying them though?
> 
> 
> 
> On 23 January 2018 at 19:18, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
> 
> > On Jan 23, 2018, at 1:13 PM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> >
> > Ok.  It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much 
> > indistinguishable from the real thing.
> >
> > I'm now looking for something to run on it.  iirc the old RSTS 
> > distributions came with a games account -  [20,20] or something like that,  
> > but the V10 distribution doesn't have this.  It only has the [1,2] 
> > utilities.
> >
> > Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting software?  
> > I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK format in order for 
> > Simh to load them as a disk?  Or is there another way to point one of the 
> > emulated devices to a file on the host?
> 
> You might try the RSTS section of the DECUS library, which should be online 
> somewhere.  I'm not sure where.  That will have assorted games as well as 
> other stuff.  For example, there's a program package called COSAP which is a 
> collection of statistical analysis tools.  That came from my alma mater, and 
> was used there particularly in sociology courses for the students to do 
> (occasionally meaningful) analysis on various survey databases.  It was known 
> for sucking up lots of CPU and disk bandwidth on our machine.
> 
> paul
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

Yes I've found a few, but they are mostly .sav or .bas files.

How do I get them into Simh without keying them though?



On 23 January 2018 at 19:18, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
>
> > On Jan 23, 2018, at 1:13 PM, Bryan Davies 
> wrote:
> >
> > Ok.  It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much
> indistinguishable from the real thing.
> >
> > I'm now looking for something to run on it.  iirc the old RSTS
> distributions came with a games account -  [20,20] or something like that,
> but the V10 distribution doesn't have this.  It only has the [1,2]
> utilities.
> >
> > Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting
> software?  I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK format
> in order for Simh to load them as a disk?  Or is there another way to point
> one of the emulated devices to a file on the host?
>
> You might try the RSTS section of the DECUS library, which should be
> online somewhere.  I'm not sure where.  That will have assorted games as
> well as other stuff.  For example, there's a program package called COSAP
> which is a collection of statistical analysis tools.  That came from my
> alma mater, and was used there particularly in sociology courses for the
> students to do (occasionally meaningful) analysis on various survey
> databases.  It was known for sucking up lots of CPU and disk bandwidth on
> our machine.
>
> paul
>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 1:13 PM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> 
> Ok.  It all boots up nicely on the VT100 and is pretty much indistinguishable 
> from the real thing.
> 
> I'm now looking for something to run on it.  iirc the old RSTS distributions 
> came with a games account -  [20,20] or something like that,  but the V10 
> distribution doesn't have this.  It only has the [1,2] utilities.
> 
> Can anyone direct me to a source of games or other interesting software?  
> I've found a few, but presumably they need to be in DSK format in order for 
> Simh to load them as a disk?  Or is there another way to point one of the 
> emulated devices to a file on the host?

You might try the RSTS section of the DECUS library, which should be online 
somewhere.  I'm not sure where.  That will have assorted games as well as other 
stuff.  For example, there's a program package called COSAP which is a 
collection of statistical analysis tools.  That came from my alma mater, and 
was used there particularly in sociology courses for the students to do 
(occasionally meaningful) analysis on various survey databases.  It was known 
for sucking up lots of CPU and disk bandwidth on our machine.

paul


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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Brett Bump]

More likely a couple of hair dryers (set on low heat) would be better. ;-)

The air conditioning in our college science building worked so well I used
to pull the front of the 11/20 (and also the box of memory below it) out
so that it could blow the heat across my cold legs while I wrote programs
on an LA36 in my summer shorts.

On Tue, 23 Jan 2018, khandy21yo wrote:


Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created. A couple of 
vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?

Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A

 Original message 
From: Paul Koning <paulkon...@comcast.net>
Date: 1/23/18 7:46 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se>
Cc: simh@trailing-edge.com, Mark Pizzolato <m...@infocomm.com>
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access



> On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se> wrote:
>
> Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with 
regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
>
> And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as V4).

paul


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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[khandy21yo]

Now he needs to simulate the noise that the actual systems created. A couple of 
vacuum  cleaners would do nicely. Maybe three?
Sent from my Galaxy Tab® A
 Original message From: Paul Koning <paulkon...@comcast.net> 
Date: 1/23/18  7:46 AM  (GMT-07:00) To: Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se> Cc: 
simh@trailing-edge.com, Mark Pizzolato <m...@infocomm.com> Subject: Re: [Simh] 
PDP11 on Simh for public access 


> On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist <b...@softjar.se> wrote:
> 
> Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with 
> regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
> 
> And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as V4).

paul


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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Jordi Guillaumes Pons]

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES



> On 23 Jan 2018, at 15:46, Paul Koning  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
>> 
>> Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with 
>> regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
>> 
>> And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?
> 
> Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as 
> V4).


Can confirm that. BITXOT is running 24x7 and idles nicely.

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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Mark Pizzolato]

Johnny asks:

> Do you know what the problem was in detail? 

Bryan answered:

> I think my problem was that I had put my EXPECT commands after 
> the boot (where they occur in the start dialogue) but they need to be 
> set up beforehand.

Absolutely true.  When using simh’s EXPECT & SEND you’ve got to 
declare the prompts you want to match before the simulated system is
running so the simulation framework has a clue what you want to 
achieve.

Additionally, as I said before:

> When using EXPECT commands, you have to PRECISELY specify what is 
> being matched.  There is a difference between “” and “ “.

Previously his EXPECT command had:

EXPECT "Proceed with system startup? "

While the correct match string has:

EXPECT "Proceed with system startup?  "

- Mark
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 5:55 AM, Johnny Billquist  wrote:
> 
> Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with 
> regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?
> 
> And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

Yes, RSTS idles just fine.  It uses WAIT for that (at least as far back as V4).

paul


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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Johnny Billquist]

Good that it works. Do you know what the problem was in detail? Also - with 
regard to cpu load. Have you told simh to idle when the simulation does?

And for Paul. Is rsts using the wait instruction to idle?

  Johnny 


Bryan Davies  skrev: (23 januari 2018 10:32:31 CET)
>It works!  Many thanks to all who have assisted.
>
>I installed the changed .ini file and sure enough I now get past the
>startup prompts.
>
>Paul - I have kept the modded Init.sys on standby but haven't installed
>it.
>
>My only comment is that Simh seems to be very heavy on CPU.  The
>Raspberry
>Pi seems to be maxed out when running it - even when the simulated OS
>isn't
>'doing' anything.  But it is nevertheless good enough for display
>purposes.  I will be installing it at
>http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/
>tomorrow and the PC / Smartphone generation will be able to see how
>computing was in the 'olden days'.
>
>
>Regards to all,
>
>Bryan.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 22 January 2018 at 20:01, Paul Koning 
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Mark Pizzolato 
>wrote:
>>
>> The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.
>>
>>
>> Thanks Mark.
>>
>> Just to correct a mistake in my earlier note to the list: I mixed up
>a
>> modified version of RSTS V10.1 sources with the original.  I thought
>that
>> the changes for Pro support were in the official one -- the answer
>yes
>> "only in part".  The change to add a timeout on the "start
>timesharing"
>> prompt was one I added as part of Pro support but that didn't make it
>into
>> the official release.
>>
>> So you're stuck with an "expect" based solution, unless you want to
>use a
>> modified init.sys.  I can supply that to anyone who's interested.
>>
>> paul
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

It works!  Many thanks to all who have assisted.

I installed the changed .ini file and sure enough I now get past the
startup prompts.

Paul - I have kept the modded Init.sys on standby but haven't installed it.

My only comment is that Simh seems to be very heavy on CPU.  The Raspberry
Pi seems to be maxed out when running it - even when the simulated OS isn't
'doing' anything.  But it is nevertheless good enough for display
purposes.  I will be installing it at http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/
tomorrow and the PC / Smartphone generation will be able to see how
computing was in the 'olden days'.


Regards to all,

Bryan.















On 22 January 2018 at 20:01, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
>
> On Jan 22, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Mark Pizzolato  wrote:
>
> The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.
>
>
> Thanks Mark.
>
> Just to correct a mistake in my earlier note to the list: I mixed up a
> modified version of RSTS V10.1 sources with the original.  I thought that
> the changes for Pro support were in the official one -- the answer yes
> "only in part".  The change to add a timeout on the "start timesharing"
> prompt was one I added as part of Pro support but that didn't make it into
> the official release.
>
> So you're stuck with an "expect" based solution, unless you want to use a
> modified init.sys.  I can supply that to anyone who's interested.
>
> paul
>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 22, 2018, at 2:53 PM, Mark Pizzolato  wrote:
> 
> The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.

Thanks Mark.

Just to correct a mistake in my earlier note to the list: I mixed up a modified 
version of RSTS V10.1 sources with the original.  I thought that the changes 
for Pro support were in the official one -- the answer yes "only in part".  The 
change to add a timeout on the "start timesharing" prompt was one I added as 
part of Pro support but that didn't make it into the official release.

So you're stuck with an "expect" based solution, unless you want to use a 
modified init.sys.  I can supply that to anyone who's interested.

paul


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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Mark Pizzolato]

The attached pdp11_exp.ini should work, and be simpler to understand.

I don’t have a V7 RSTS to test with and the V10 stuff I’ve got to test doesn’t 
prompt for the time of day, but seems to automatically detect the correct date 
and time.  Leaving the EXPECT commands to answer these questions in the script 
doesn’t hurt.

When using EXPECT commands, you have to PRECISELY specify what is being 
matched.  There is a difference between “” and “ “.


-  Mark

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Davies
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2018 11:04 AM
To: Paul Koning <paulkon...@comcast.net>; simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

Thanks Paul.

Here is the .ini file and a copy of what I see on screen.   I have left my 
previous attempts at using EXPECT/SEND in place but commented out.

Bryan


On 22 January 2018 at 17:59, Paul Koning 
<paulkon...@comcast.net<mailto:paulkon...@comcast.net>> wrote:


> On Jan 22, 2018, at 11:57 AM, Bryan Davies 
> <bryan.e.dav...@gmail.com<mailto:bryan.e.dav...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Thank you Paul.
>
> I now have V4 of Simh and V10.1 of RSTS so at least I'm up to date!
>
> The date/time registers worked.   Unfortunately, the start process is still 
> getting stuck; now at the 'Start timesharing? ' prompt.   My system 
> doesn't have the 10 second timeout you describe here, although it DOES have 
> one on the later 'Proceed with system startup" prompt.
>
> I have a vague memory (it's been 30 years!) of an auto restart flag in the 
> switch register & I'm wondering if you know about this.   Or maybe the 
> problem is elsewhere.
>
> I'd be grateful for any more ideas you have on the subject.
>
> Bryan

That's curious.  Could you send me the SIMH configuration and the actual output 
from your test run?

paul




pdp11_exp.ini
Description: pdp11_exp.ini
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Johnny Billquist]

Bryan, I'm not understanding why the scripting capability in simh don't 
seem to do it for you...


  Johnny

On 2018-01-22 17:57, Bryan Davies wrote:

Thank you Paul.

I now have V4 of Simh and V10.1 of RSTS so at least I'm up to date!

The date/time registers worked.   Unfortunately, the start process is 
still getting stuck; now at the 'Start timesharing? ' prompt.   My 
system doesn't have the 10 second timeout you describe here, although it 
DOES have one on the later 'Proceed with system startup" prompt.


I have a vague memory (it's been 30 years!) of an auto restart flag in 
the switch register & I'm wondering if you know about this.   Or maybe 
the problem is elsewhere.


I'd be grateful for any more ideas you have on the subject.

Bryan

On 18 January 2018 at 16:05, Paul Koning > wrote:




> On Jan 18, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Bryan Davies > wrote:
>
> Many thanks to all for the advice.   Unfortunately I'm still not quite 
there.

There is an easy solution if you have a recent RSTS.

The OS keeps date and time in location 1000-1004.  That is preserved
across boot, and if on entry to INIT those locations contain what
seems like a valid date, that's used as the system date/time.  This
is why the more recent versions of RSTS don't prompt for date/time
if you do a restart (SHUTUP with restart) or use the BOOT command in
INIT.

Second, if you're running V10.1, the "Start timesharing" prompt has
a 10 second timeout, and will default to "yes" (i.e., start RSTS) at
that point.

So if you start SIMH with a startup script that deposits the date in
1000, and time in 1002, then issues the SIMH boot command, RSTS INIT
will pick up that date/time and after 10 seconds will go on to start
the OS.

RSTS date format: (year-1970)*1000 + day_in_year
RSTS time format: 1440 - (minutes_since_midnight)
RSTS seconds: 60 - (seconds_since_minute)

For example:

$ pdp11 pdp11-42.ini

PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta        git commit id: d3b6018d
sim> d -d 1000 32004
sim> d -d 1002 720
sim> d -d 1004 30
sim> bo rq
?
Thu Jan 18 11:02:00 2018

RSTS P10.1-L V101XM (DU0) INIT V10.1-0L

04-Jan-02 12:00 PM


Start timesharing?  NO

I entered the values in decimal (with -d) for convenience.  You can
see the correct date and time are picked up by INIT.  Seconds are
not displayed here but they are saved, so you can set them if you
want to be that precise.

         paul




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--
Johnny Billquist  || "I'm on a bus
  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: b...@softjar.se ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive! ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[David Wijnants]

There is a V10.1 at this address:

http://www.retrocomputingtasmania.com/files



On 20 January 2018 at 18:23, Jordi Guillaumes Pons  wrote:

>
> Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
> j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
> HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES
>
>
>
> On 20 Jan 2018, at 15:09, Bryan Davies  wrote:
>
> Many thanks for your help Jordi, but I'm afraid I'm still struggling.
>
> I have installed V 4.0-0 of Simh and it now supports EXPECT.   I have put
> the EXPECT and SEND commands into pdp11.ini but it still doesn't get past
> the 'Option:'  prompt.
>
> Here I would normally enter a LF (although ST works, it then asks some
> supplementary questions)  but either way it stops.   I would like to use
> your example but in order to do so I need a later version RSTS as the start
> dialogue is different.   Mine is V7 which I got from trailing-edge.May
> I ask where you obtained your later version from please?
>
>
> To be honest, I don’t remember. I’ve been running it for years :( IIRC I
> found it in a site which is fully dedicated to RSTS.
>
> I’ll try to get version 7 and try your script, but I’ll need some time to
> do that.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Jordi Guillaumes Pons]

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES



> On 20 Jan 2018, at 15:09, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> 
> Many thanks for your help Jordi, but I'm afraid I'm still struggling.
> 
> I have installed V 4.0-0 of Simh and it now supports EXPECT.   I have put the 
> EXPECT and SEND commands into pdp11.ini but it still doesn't get past the 
> 'Option:'  prompt.
> 
> Here I would normally enter a LF (although ST works, it then asks some 
> supplementary questions)  but either way it stops.   I would like to use your 
> example but in order to do so I need a later version RSTS as the start 
> dialogue is different.   Mine is V7 which I got from trailing-edge.May I 
> ask where you obtained your later version from please?
> 

To be honest, I don’t remember. I’ve been running it for years :( IIRC I found 
it in a site which is fully dedicated to RSTS.

I’ll try to get version 7 and try your script, but I’ll need some time to do 
that.



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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 18, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Paul,
> 
> unfortunately I'm running RSTS V7 and tbh I'd like to keep it that way 
> because I want to show the old style CLI rather than DCL.   I did try 
> depositing the date and time values as suggested and just on the off chance 
> but it didn't work.
> 
> Rgds
> 
> Bryan

You don't need to stick with V7 to show the CCL style user interface.  That 
still works in the latest version.  The difference is that DCL is the default 
UI, so a user who logs in will normally see the $ prompt, not the old "Ready" 
from BASIC.

But that too is easy to change.   A one or two line login.com script can switch 
the user to BASIC, so after login a Ready prompt appears.  Yes, you can get to 
DCL, but it isn't "in your face".

paul


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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Quentin North]

Hi Bryan

You need to install simh v4 from source on GitHub.

Go to https://github.com/simh/simh 

Download a source zip file using the download button on your host (or download 
and transfer to host as necessary)

unzip the source into a directory on your host.

you will need gcc and dev-tools on your host for the next bits:

cd simh (the director you unzipped simh into)
make pdp11

once done, the new binary is at simh/BIN/pdp11

You should now be able to execute pdp11 and use the new script commands.

Quentin

> On 18 Jan 2018, at 16:51, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> 
> Thanks.  I just tried sudo apt-get install simh and it tells me that I am on 
> the latest version (3.8.1-5) .  Is there a newer one, and if so how do I 
> install it?
> 
> On 18 January 2018 at 16:47, Quentin North  > wrote:
> Hi Bryan
> 
> You need to be on the latest SIMH for expect/send to work within SIMH 
> scripts. Below is an example of how it can be used to boot an HP Access 
> system, which has two processors that need to communicate with each other and 
> it sets the date an time during the boot. Look in particular at the lines 
> that say things like 'go until “EXPRESSION”’ and 'reply “REPLY"'. Hat tip to 
> David Bryan for this script.
> 
> ;  2000 Access System Processor Execution Command File
> ;
> ;
> ; This command file loads the 2000 Access operating system into the System
> ; Processor.  It is invoked as follows:
> ;
> ;hp2100 sp 
> ;
> ; ...where  is "2100" or one of "21MX/21MX-E/1000-M/1000-E".
> ;
> ; As part of the system startup process, this file loads and runs the IOP 
> using
> ; the "iop.sim" command file.  It also uses the "sleep" external command to
> ; provide proper synchronization.
> ; 
> ; The  parameter determines both the CPU setting and the IOP tape used to
> ; load the I/O Processor.  If "2100" is specified, then the 2100 CPU and 2100
> ; IOP tape are used.  If anything else is specified, then the 21MX IOP tape is
> ; used, and the CPU is set to the parameter verbatim.
> ; 
> ; This file boots the system stored on the "ACCESS-.7905.disc" image.
> 
> 
> ; Validate the processor parameter.
> 
> if "%1" == "" echo Must specify the processor parameter.
> if "%1" == "" exit
> 
> 
> ; Ensure that we can pick up the executable path.
> 
> if "%SIM_BIN_PATH%" == "" echo Must use a newer simulator version (10/25/17 
> or later).
> if "%SIM_BIN_PATH%" == "" exit
> 
> 
> ; Capture the operating system console log.
> 
> set -n console log=sp-%1.log
> 
> 
> ; Output the usage notes.
> ; 
> ; The Telnet standard requires CR to be followed by LF or NUL.  The QCTerm
> ; terminal emulator does not comply with this requirement; with AUTO LF turned
> ; off, it sends just a CR.  SIMH complies with the standard and discards a LF 
> or
> ; NULL following a CR, but this means that the TSB speed-sense input of CR LF
> ; (or CTRL+M CTRL+J) won't work.  The workaround is to do CR LF LF or turn 
> AUTO
> ; LF on, press ENTER, and then turn it off again (QCTerm sends CR NUL LF when
> ; AUTO LF is on).
> 
> echo
> echo
> echo The A001 password is "A001".
> echo For QCTerm sessions, type "CR LF LF" for PLEASE LOG IN.
> echo
> echo
> 
> 
> ; Configure the CPU.
> 
> if "%1" == "2100" set CPU %1,32K,FP
> if "%1" != "2100" set CPU %1,32K
> 
> 
> ; Configure the I/O card cage.
> 
> set IPLI SC=10
> set TTY  SC=12
> set TBG  SC=13
> set DS   SC=14
> set MSD  SC=16
> 
> 
> ; Configure the simulation environment.
> 
> set IPLI ENABLED
> 
> set PTR  DISABLED
> set PTP  DISABLED
> set LPT  DISABLED
> set BACI DISABLED
> set MPX  DISABLED
> set DPD  DISABLED
> set DRD  DISABLED
> set MTD  DISABLED
> set PIF  DISABLED
> 
> set DS0 7905
> set MSC 13183
> 
> if "%SIM_MAJOR%" == "3" break after=5
> if "%SIM_MAJOR%" != "3" expect haltafter=5; set env reply=send
> 
> 
> ; Connect the Processor Interconnect cables.
> 
> attach -L IPLI 4020
> attach -L IPLO 4021
> 
> 
> ; Load and start the IOP.
> ;
> ; Attach the configured tape for the specified processor.
> 
> if "%1" == "2100" attach -E MSC0 IOPGEN-2100.tape
> if "%1" != "2100" attach -E MSC0 IOPGEN-21MX.tape
> 
> 
> ; Load the IOP cross-loader.
> 
> boot MSC0
> 
> assert T=102077
> 
> 
> ; Start the IOP cross-loader.
> 
> deposit P 002000
> go until "START IOP PROTECTED LOADER.  PRESS RETURN "
> 
> echo
> 
> 
> ; Start the IOP to receive the program.
> ;
> ; The IOP command file is run with the -E switch to cause execution to 
> continue
> ; after errors.  An "I/O Error" occurs when the SP exits and the IPL 
> connection
> ; is broken.  We want the command file to continue to exit the IOP instance
> ; automatically.
> 
> if "%SIM_MAJOR%" == "3" ! %SIM_BIN_PATH% -E ciop %1 &
> if "%SIM_MAJOR%" != "3" ! %SIM_BIN_PATH%ciop %1 &
> 
> 
> ;; Connect the Processor Interconnect cables.
> ;
> ;attach -L  IPLI 4020
> ;attach -LW IPLO 4021
> 
> 
> ; Wait for the IOP.
> 
> 

Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Jordi Guillaumes i Pons]

Bryan, the lines I wrote in my previous mail are not part of an EXPECT script, 
but SIMH commands which are intended to be put in the simulator ini file. Those 
specific lines work with RSTS 11, if you are going to run a different version 
you should modify them accordingly.

To start my simulators I use a shell script which runs GNU screen and launches 
each simulator in its own screen ‘window’. In the case of RSTS and TOPS-10, the 
simulator ini files (pdp11.ini and pdp10.ini) contain the EXPECT and SEND 
commands necessary to boot the operating systems (the rest of OSs don’t usually 
need any interaction at boot time).

Jordi Guillaumes Pons


El 18 gen 2018, a les 16:40, Bryan Davies  va 
escriure:

> Many thanks to all for the advice.   Unfortunately I'm still not quite there.
> 
> I have written an Expect script which runs Simh and sure enough responds to 
> the startup prompts.  Unfortunately after it completes the terminal isn't 
> interactive anymore.  Oddly it still echoes characters to the screen but with 
> no response - either from RSTS or Rasbian.   If I open another Terminal, PS 
> shows me the pdp11 emulator running as another process but tty1 is stuck in 
> bash.
> 
> I have included a fork and disconnect at the end of the script as suggested 
> but to no effect.
> 
> Expect commands don't seem to work within Simh.  Should they?
> 
> 
>> On 18 January 2018 at 09:59, Bryan Davies  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I volunteer for a computer museum in Cambridge UK where we would much like 
>> to extend our mini-computer exhibit.   We want to set up a VT100 running 
>> RSTS/E for our visitors to use. As the system needs to start unattended I 
>> need it to boot up RSTS from power up.
>> 
>> I have installed Simh on a Raspberry Pi B and connected the VT100 to the 
>> serial port ttyAMA0.
>> 
>> While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator manually, 
>> RSTS/E has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue (Date, Time etc) 
>> which need to be answered before it is possible for a User to login.  I have 
>> tried putting these responses in a Shell script, and while that 'works' 
>> insofar as the boot process completes, it doesn't return control to the 
>> terminal after the script ends.
>> 
>> Can anyone advise how to do it?
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Jordi Guillaumes i Pons]

Forgive my top posting, I’m replying with my phone.

Consider using GNU screen. It’s scriptable and works really well.

Jordi Guillaumes Pons


El 18 gen 2018, a les 17:34, Paul Koning  va escriure:

> Too bad, I thought at least presetting date/time would work that far back.
> 
> How about using a Telnet connection for the console, that's a SIMH feature.  
> Then you can connect to it with a tool to drive the data to the console for 
> startup, then once that's done disconnect and reconnect with a regular xterm 
> window for user interaction.  Or not -- you can have the user interaction on 
> other terminal lines instead.
> 
>paul
> 
> 
>> On Jan 18, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks Paul,
>> 
>> unfortunately I'm running RSTS V7 and tbh I'd like to keep it that way 
>> because I want to show the old style CLI rather than DCL.   I did try 
>> depositing the date and time values as suggested and just on the off chance 
>> but it didn't work.
>> 
>> Rgds
>> 
>> Bryan
> 
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Paul Koning]

Too bad, I thought at least presetting date/time would work that far back.

How about using a Telnet connection for the console, that's a SIMH feature.  
Then you can connect to it with a tool to drive the data to the console for 
startup, then once that's done disconnect and reconnect with a regular xterm 
window for user interaction.  Or not -- you can have the user interaction on 
other terminal lines instead.

paul


> On Jan 18, 2018, at 11:27 AM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> 
> Thanks Paul,
> 
> unfortunately I'm running RSTS V7 and tbh I'd like to keep it that way 
> because I want to show the old style CLI rather than DCL.   I did try 
> depositing the date and time values as suggested and just on the off chance 
> but it didn't work.
> 
> Rgds
> 
> Bryan

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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

Thanks Paul,

unfortunately I'm running RSTS V7 and tbh I'd like to keep it that way
because I want to show the old style CLI rather than DCL.   I did try
depositing the date and time values as suggested and just on the off chance
but it didn't work.

Rgds

Bryan


On 18 January 2018 at 16:05, Paul Koning  wrote:

>
>
> > On Jan 18, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Bryan Davies 
> wrote:
> >
> > Many thanks to all for the advice.   Unfortunately I'm still not quite
> there.
>
> There is an easy solution if you have a recent RSTS.
>
> The OS keeps date and time in location 1000-1004.  That is preserved
> across boot, and if on entry to INIT those locations contain what seems
> like a valid date, that's used as the system date/time.  This is why the
> more recent versions of RSTS don't prompt for date/time if you do a restart
> (SHUTUP with restart) or use the BOOT command in INIT.
>
> Second, if you're running V10.1, the "Start timesharing" prompt has a 10
> second timeout, and will default to "yes" (i.e., start RSTS) at that point.
>
> So if you start SIMH with a startup script that deposits the date in 1000,
> and time in 1002, then issues the SIMH boot command, RSTS INIT will pick up
> that date/time and after 10 seconds will go on to start the OS.
>
> RSTS date format: (year-1970)*1000 + day_in_year
> RSTS time format: 1440 - (minutes_since_midnight)
> RSTS seconds: 60 - (seconds_since_minute)
>
> For example:
>
> $ pdp11 pdp11-42.ini
>
> PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: d3b6018d
> sim> d -d 1000 32004
> sim> d -d 1002 720
> sim> d -d 1004 30
> sim> bo rq
> ?
> Thu Jan 18 11:02:00 2018
>
> RSTS P10.1-L V101XM (DU0) INIT V10.1-0L
>
> 04-Jan-02 12:00 PM
>
>
> Start timesharing?  NO
>
> I entered the values in decimal (with -d) for convenience.  You can see
> the correct date and time are picked up by INIT.  Seconds are not displayed
> here but they are saved, so you can set them if you want to be that precise.
>
> paul
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 18, 2018, at 10:40 AM, Bryan Davies  wrote:
> 
> Many thanks to all for the advice.   Unfortunately I'm still not quite there.

There is an easy solution if you have a recent RSTS.

The OS keeps date and time in location 1000-1004.  That is preserved across 
boot, and if on entry to INIT those locations contain what seems like a valid 
date, that's used as the system date/time.  This is why the more recent 
versions of RSTS don't prompt for date/time if you do a restart (SHUTUP with 
restart) or use the BOOT command in INIT.

Second, if you're running V10.1, the "Start timesharing" prompt has a 10 second 
timeout, and will default to "yes" (i.e., start RSTS) at that point.

So if you start SIMH with a startup script that deposits the date in 1000, and 
time in 1002, then issues the SIMH boot command, RSTS INIT will pick up that 
date/time and after 10 seconds will go on to start the OS.

RSTS date format: (year-1970)*1000 + day_in_year
RSTS time format: 1440 - (minutes_since_midnight)
RSTS seconds: 60 - (seconds_since_minute)

For example:

$ pdp11 pdp11-42.ini 

PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Betagit commit id: d3b6018d
sim> d -d 1000 32004 
sim> d -d 1002 720
sim> d -d 1004 30
sim> bo rq
?
Thu Jan 18 11:02:00 2018

RSTS P10.1-L V101XM (DU0) INIT V10.1-0L

04-Jan-02 12:00 PM


Start timesharing?  NO

I entered the values in decimal (with -d) for convenience.  You can see the 
correct date and time are picked up by INIT.  Seconds are not displayed here 
but they are saved, so you can set them if you want to be that precise.

paul

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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Bryan Davies]

Many thanks to all for the advice.   Unfortunately I'm still not quite
there.

I have written an Expect script which runs Simh and sure enough responds to
the startup prompts.  Unfortunately after it completes the terminal isn't
interactive anymore.  Oddly it still echoes characters to the screen but
with no response - either from RSTS or Rasbian.   If I open another
Terminal, PS shows me the pdp11 emulator running as another process but
tty1 is stuck in bash.

I have included a fork and disconnect at the end of the script as suggested
but to no effect.

Expect commands don't seem to work within Simh.  Should they?


On 18 January 2018 at 09:59, Bryan Davies  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I volunteer for a computer museum in Cambridge UK where we would much like
> to extend our mini-computer exhibit.   We want to set up a VT100 running
> RSTS/E for our visitors to use. As the system needs to start unattended I
> need it to boot up RSTS from power up.
>
> I have installed Simh on a Raspberry Pi B and connected the VT100 to the
> serial port ttyAMA0.
>
> While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator manually,
> RSTS/E has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue (Date, Time etc)
> which need to be answered before it is possible for a User to login.  I
> have tried putting these responses in a Shell script, and while that
> 'works' insofar as the boot process completes, it doesn't return control to
> the terminal after the script ends.
>
> Can anyone advise how to do it?
>
>
>
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Jordi Guillaumes Pons]

> On 18 Jan 2018, at 11:29, Mark Pizzolato  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bryan,
>  
> These prompts can all be addressed with EXPECT and SEND commands as part of 
> your simulator startup configuration file.  These commands are built into 
> simh.  See HELP EXPECT and HELP SEND.  Appropriate values to answer date and 
> time prompts can be part of the SEND text as well.  See HELP DO 
> VARIABLE_INSERTION.
>  
> Have fun.

Hello,

I run a simh instance with RSTS (BITXOT in HECNET) and this is the sequence I 
use to boot it. Add these lines to your simh .INI file and see if they work for 
you:

echo
;echo "boot rp" to boot RSTS/E
echo Booting RSTS/E from RP0 (DB0:)

EXPECT "Today\'s date?"
boot rp
SEND AFTER=1 "%DATE_DD%-%DATE_MMM%-%DATE_YY%\r"
EXPECT "Current time?"
continue
SEND AFTER=1 "%TIME_HH%:%TIME_MM%\r"
EXPECT "Start timesharing? "
continue
SEND AFTER=1 "\r"
EXPECT "Proceed with system startup?  "
continue
SEND AFTER=1 "\r"
continue


I hope it helps!

Jordi Guillaumes i Pons
j...@jordi.guillaumes.name
HECnet: BITXOW::JGUILLAUMES




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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Mark Pizzolato]

Hi Bryan,

These prompts can all be addressed with EXPECT and SEND commands as part of 
your simulator startup configuration file.  These commands are built into simh. 
 See HELP EXPECT and HELP SEND.  Appropriate values to answer date and time 
prompts can be part of the SEND text as well.  See HELP DO VARIABLE_INSERTION.

Have fun.


-  Mark

From: Simh [mailto:simh-boun...@trailing-edge.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Davies
Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2018 1:59 AM
To: simh@trailing-edge.com
Subject: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

Hi,

I volunteer for a computer museum in Cambridge UK where we would much like to 
extend our mini-computer exhibit.   We want to set up a VT100 running RSTS/E 
for our visitors to use. As the system needs to start unattended I need it to 
boot up RSTS from power up.

I have installed Simh on a Raspberry Pi B and connected the VT100 to the serial 
port ttyAMA0.

While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator manually, RSTS/E 
has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue (Date, Time etc) which need to 
be answered before it is possible for a User to login.  I have tried putting 
these responses in a Shell script, and while that 'works' insofar as the boot 
process completes, it doesn't return control to the terminal after the script 
ends.

Can anyone advise how to do it?


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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Warren Young]

On Thu, Jan 18, 2018 at 2:59 AM, Bryan Davies 
wrote:

>
> While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator manually,
> RSTS/E has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue (Date, Time etc)
> which need to be answered before it is possible for a User to login.  I
> have tried putting these responses in a Shell script, and while that
> 'works' insofar as the boot process completes, it doesn't return control to
> the terminal after the script ends.
>
> Can anyone advise how to do it?
>

SIMH has a send/expect feature pair which could probably express the
solution. See page 14 and 15 of the SIMH manual.

If this feature isn't powerful enough to do what you want, you can use the
tool that doubtless inspired these features, Expect
. You can run SIMH under Expect until you reach
the interactive point, then disconnect from the SIMH process
,
allowing the terminal to control it.
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Re: [Simh] PDP11 on Simh for public access

[Håkan Svenson]

You may use Expect http://expect.sourceforge.net/

/H

Bryan Davies wrote:

Hi,

I volunteer for a computer museum in Cambridge UK where we would much 
like to extend our mini-computer exhibit.   We want to set up a VT100 
running RSTS/E for our visitors to use. As the system needs to start 
unattended I need it to boot up RSTS from power up.


I have installed Simh on a Raspberry Pi B and connected the VT100 to 
the serial port ttyAMA0.


While I can login to the Pi on the VT100 and boot the emulator 
manually, RSTS/E has a number of prompts within the boot dialogue 
(Date, Time etc) which need to be answered before it is possible for a 
User to login.  I have tried putting these responses in a Shell 
script, and while that 'works' insofar as the boot process completes, 
it doesn't return control to the terminal after the script ends.


Can anyone advise how to do it?




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