Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 23.10.2016 12:36, Andrzej Telszewski wrote: On 23/10/16 01:56, Christoph Willing wrote: Who is going to decide REQUIRED vs OPTIONAL for the many (I suspect) non obvious cases? Presumably the maintainer. If a maintainer's balance of REQUIRED/OPTIONAL deps doesn't suit someone else's particular needs/wants, then the builder will have to change their personal .info files anyway (or complain to the maintainer). I think the problem of REQUIRED vs OPTIONAL has been solved long time ago. It's the maintainer that decides what is placed in REQUIRED and most probably 99% of us just installs what is there. And most probably 99% of the time what is placed in the REQUIRED is what is ABSOLUTELY necessary to compile the software or to run it (run time dependency). Everything else, i.e. things that could be added later on or are detected during compilation, are OPTIONAL. I'm the supporter of the OPTIONAL field and I actually proposed it sometime ago, but it was rejected too. I think there is too big resistance here for this addition, because naturally it would involve work. I think maintaining Options in README is about the same work as providing an Options field in the Info-file. Looking at https://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/multimedia/ffmpeg/ , it felt much better to see this list in in an OPTIONAL field in, which would also be parsable by tools like sbotools. Without further bothering the qemu-maintainer, whatever package requires qemu compiled with usbredir, then could have something like REQUIRED="qemu:usbredir" in the Info-file. Johannes ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 23/10/16 01:56, Christoph Willing wrote: Who is going to decide REQUIRED vs OPTIONAL for the many (I suspect) non obvious cases? Presumably the maintainer. If a maintainer's balance of REQUIRED/OPTIONAL deps doesn't suit someone else's particular needs/wants, then the builder will have to change their personal .info files anyway (or complain to the maintainer). I think the problem of REQUIRED vs OPTIONAL has been solved long time ago. It's the maintainer that decides what is placed in REQUIRED and most probably 99% of us just installs what is there. And most probably 99% of the time what is placed in the REQUIRED is what is ABSOLUTELY necessary to compile the software or to run it (run time dependency). Everything else, i.e. things that could be added later on or are detected during compilation, are OPTIONAL. I'm the supporter of the OPTIONAL field and I actually proposed it sometime ago, but it was rejected too. I think there is too big resistance here for this addition, because naturally it would involve work. And as with everything in the world, there are people for whom OPTIONAL would be a nice addition and those for whom it's just pointless work. -- Best regards, Andrzej Telszewski ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
> I just wanted to talk about an ~OPTIONAL tag in *.nfo > for better organized optional dependencies than checking > each time the README. I'm not trying to force anyone, > just wanted to discuss this. > > Something like CONFLICTS in *.nfo could be a good thing > too, or not? > > https://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/network/postfix/ > https://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/network/exim/ > https://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/network/opensmtpd/ > > CONFLICTS: sendmail That's the purpose of README (it should be read) While some package may have small number of optional deps, others may have more than a dozen and the maintainer may or may not be able to detect all of it. automatic tools are there to help us building the job automatically, but if it requires special attention, it's up to us (users) to do the job done :) -- Willy Sudiarto Raharjo signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 10/23/2016 03:08 AM, King Beowulf wrote: > Some of you will just have to do some real work on your own. > For example, MOST of the slackbuilds I pull from SBo for my use are > customized. Perhaps I need a non-default function, or to drop a > function/dependency I can live without. I'm not going force the > maintainers toward my use case. > My LQ HOW-TO for Boinc-7.6.33 is a good example of this. Does anyone > REALLY want wxGTK3 to have a hard requirement for webkitgtk? I just wanted to talk about an ~OPTIONAL tag in *.nfo for better organized optional dependencies than checking each time the README. I'm not trying to force anyone, just wanted to discuss this. Something like CONFLICTS in *.nfo could be a good thing too, or not? https://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/network/postfix/ https://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/network/exim/ https://slackbuilds.org/repository/14.2/network/opensmtpd/ CONFLICTS: sendmail 8-) -- Thomas Szteliga smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 10/22/2016 04:56 PM, Christoph Willing wrote: > On 23/10/16 09:26, Thomas Szteliga wrote: >> On 10/22/2016 07:28 PM, Andrzej Telszewski wrote: >>> Something that is not required, shouldn't be flagged as required as long >>> as it makes sense. >>> But your proposal to forcibly disable building against usbredir is >>> viable. >>> If it solves your problem, then ask the maintainer to add it. >>> You can never have too few options ;-) >> >> >> OK, before I ask I wanted to discuss this. And yes, You're right: >> >> "Something that is not required, shouldn't be flagged as required" > > The trouble is that some peoples' REQUIRED is/are other peoples' OPTIONAL. > > >> so maybe it's time to rethink the way OPTIONAL dependencies are >> announced? The README is OK, but it requires with every new release >> to re-read all READMEs and check, if any optional deps were added. >> It would be much easier to have an "OPTIONAL" tag in addition >> to "REQUIRES" in the *.nfo files. Don't you think? >> > Who is going to decide REQUIRED vs OPTIONAL for the many (I suspect) non > obvious cases? Presumably the maintainer. If a maintainer's balance of > REQUIRED/OPTIONAL deps doesn't suit someone else's particular > needs/wants, then the builder will have to change their personal .info > files anyway (or complain to the maintainer). > > chris > Chris, thank you for your explanation. To all others: there are just too many use cases to make everyone happy. Some of you will just have to do some real work on your own. For example, MOST of the slackbuilds I pull from SBo for my use are customized. Perhaps I need a non-default function, or to drop a function/dependency I can live without. I'm not going force the maintainers toward my use case. My LQ HOW-TO for Boinc-7.6.33 is a good example of this. Does anyone REALLY want wxGTK3 to have a hard requirement for webkitgtk? -Ed signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 10/22/2016 05:17 PM, Thomas Szteliga wrote: > Just a short review: > > http://www.rpm.org/wiki/PackagerDocs/BooleanDependencies > > "Requires, Recommends, Suggests, Supplements, Enhances, Conflicts" > > > > Weak dependencies > > In addition to the strong dependencies created by Requires, there are 4 > dependencies that are completely ignored by rpm itself. Their purpose is > to be used by dependency solvers to make choices about what packages to > install. They come in two levels of strength: > > + Weak: By default the dependency solver shall attempt to process >the dependency > > as though it were strong. If this is results in an error then they > should be ignored and not trigger an error or warning. > > + Very weak: By default the dependency solver shall ignore them. >But they may be used to show the matching packages as option >to the user. > > The depsolver may offer to treat the weak like very weak relations or > the other way round. > > In addition to normal, forward relations that behave the same way as > Requires: there are also two weak dependencies that work backward. > Instead of adding packages that match the relations of to-be-installed > packages these Relations add packages that contain relations matching > to-be-installed packages. > > > > More here: http://www.rpm.org/wiki/PackagerDocs/Dependencies > > That's just nuts. Lets not try to force Slackware and SBo into a Debian/Fedora/Gentoo etc mold. Sure, it takes a bit more work for the end user to sift through what he needs for his special use case and that is how it should be. -Ed signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
Just a short review: http://www.rpm.org/wiki/PackagerDocs/BooleanDependencies "Requires, Recommends, Suggests, Supplements, Enhances, Conflicts" Weak dependencies In addition to the strong dependencies created by Requires, there are 4 dependencies that are completely ignored by rpm itself. Their purpose is to be used by dependency solvers to make choices about what packages to install. They come in two levels of strength: + Weak: By default the dependency solver shall attempt to process the dependency as though it were strong. If this is results in an error then they should be ignored and not trigger an error or warning. + Very weak: By default the dependency solver shall ignore them. But they may be used to show the matching packages as option to the user. The depsolver may offer to treat the weak like very weak relations or the other way round. In addition to normal, forward relations that behave the same way as Requires: there are also two weak dependencies that work backward. Instead of adding packages that match the relations of to-be-installed packages these Relations add packages that contain relations matching to-be-installed packages. More here: http://www.rpm.org/wiki/PackagerDocs/Dependencies -- Thomas Szteliga smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 10/23/2016 01:56 AM, Christoph Willing wrote: > Who is going to decide REQUIRED vs OPTIONAL for the many (I suspect) non > obvious cases? Presumably the maintainer. If a maintainer's balance of > REQUIRED/OPTIONAL deps doesn't suit someone else's particular > needs/wants, then the builder will have to change their personal .info > files anyway (or complain to the maintainer). Hmm, I guess the source developer decides what is really required and what is optional, and the slackbuild maintainer decides which optional (for the developer) dependencies should be treated as REQUIRED by the distribution... -- Thomas Szteliga smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 23/10/16 09:26, Thomas Szteliga wrote: On 10/22/2016 07:28 PM, Andrzej Telszewski wrote: Something that is not required, shouldn't be flagged as required as long as it makes sense. But your proposal to forcibly disable building against usbredir is viable. If it solves your problem, then ask the maintainer to add it. You can never have too few options ;-) OK, before I ask I wanted to discuss this. And yes, You're right: "Something that is not required, shouldn't be flagged as required" The trouble is that some peoples' REQUIRED is/are other peoples' OPTIONAL. so maybe it's time to rethink the way OPTIONAL dependencies are announced? The README is OK, but it requires with every new release to re-read all READMEs and check, if any optional deps were added. It would be much easier to have an "OPTIONAL" tag in addition to "REQUIRES" in the *.nfo files. Don't you think? Who is going to decide REQUIRED vs OPTIONAL for the many (I suspect) non obvious cases? Presumably the maintainer. If a maintainer's balance of REQUIRED/OPTIONAL deps doesn't suit someone else's particular needs/wants, then the builder will have to change their personal .info files anyway (or complain to the maintainer). chris ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 10/22/2016 07:28 PM, Andrzej Telszewski wrote: > Something that is not required, shouldn't be flagged as required as long > as it makes sense. > But your proposal to forcibly disable building against usbredir is viable. > If it solves your problem, then ask the maintainer to add it. > You can never have too few options ;-) OK, before I ask I wanted to discuss this. And yes, You're right: "Something that is not required, shouldn't be flagged as required" so maybe it's time to rethink the way OPTIONAL dependencies are announced? The README is OK, but it requires with every new release to re-read all READMEs and check, if any optional deps were added. It would be much easier to have an "OPTIONAL" tag in addition to "REQUIRES" in the *.nfo files. Don't you think? >> Before 14.1 usbredir was optional, because the official libusb >> was too old, that's not the case anymore. > No, it was optional, because it was optional ;-) ;-) -- Thomas Szteliga smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 22/10/16 14:33, Thomas Szteliga wrote: On 10/22/2016 09:39 AM, King Beowulf wrote: qemu README already mentions spice and usbredir as optional dependencies. spice-gtk README also mentions usbredir as an optional dependency. Perhaps a more precise wording can ovoid confusion. I suggest that the OP should assume that an optional dependency is expected to be present at COMPILE-TIME unless otherwise specified. Or the OP can just read the qemu/virt documentation. I'm aware. I can read, really ;-) But automated build tools won't know. And this causes, that the build order matters. We're no longer able to build qemu without usbredir when usbredir is somehow already present, because there's no way to pass --disable-usbredir to the qemu.Slackbuild. And what I'm really trying to say here is, that qemu without usbredir is missing an important feature and qemu without usbredir will make the virt-manager viewer unusable. That depends on your use case. Not everybody requires that feature. And not everybody uses virt-manager. So maybe usbredir should be considered as REQUIRED or at least there should be a switch for qemu.Slackbuild available, which would stop the build if usbredir is missing, so we have more control, or a switch allowing us to pass --disable-usbredir if we're building on a system, where usbredir is already installed. Something that is not required, shouldn't be flagged as required as long as it makes sense. But your proposal to forcibly disable building against usbredir is viable. If it solves your problem, then ask the maintainer to add it. You can never have too few options ;-) Before 14.1 usbredir was optional, because the official libusb was too old, that's not the case anymore. No, it was optional, because it was optional ;-) The SlackBuild build shipped with newer version of libusb linked statically (?) to allow you to use usbredir. All that being said, I'm using QEMU with usbredir support compiled-in, everything under libvirt ;-) ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/ -- Best regards, Andrzej Telszewski ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 10/22/2016 09:39 AM, King Beowulf wrote: > qemu README already mentions spice and usbredir as optional > dependencies. spice-gtk README also mentions usbredir as an optional > dependency. Perhaps a more precise wording can ovoid confusion. > I suggest that the OP should assume that an optional dependency is > expected to be present at COMPILE-TIME unless otherwise specified. > Or the OP can just read the qemu/virt documentation. I'm aware. I can read, really ;-) But automated build tools won't know. And this causes, that the build order matters. We're no longer able to build qemu without usbredir when usbredir is somehow already present, because there's no way to pass --disable-usbredir to the qemu.Slackbuild. And what I'm really trying to say here is, that qemu without usbredir is missing an important feature and qemu without usbredir will make the virt-manager viewer unusable. So maybe usbredir should be considered as REQUIRED or at least there should be a switch for qemu.Slackbuild available, which would stop the build if usbredir is missing, so we have more control, or a switch allowing us to pass --disable-usbredir if we're building on a system, where usbredir is already installed. Before 14.1 usbredir was optional, because the official libusb was too old, that's not the case anymore. -- Thomas Szteliga smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 10/19/2016 11:50 PM, Willy Sudiarto Raharjo wrote: >> Maybe the *.nfo files should be extended by listing optional >> dependencies, so we could handle these an automated way? > > NO > REQUIRES in .info should only be used for mandatory dependencies, not > optional dependencies. > >> Another subject are dependencies required only during build-time >> vss dependencies required at runtime. > > This can be written in the README > qemu README already mentions spice and usbredir as optional dependencies. spice-gtk README also mentions usbredir as an optional dependency. Perhaps a more precise wording can ovoid confusion. I suggest that the OP should assume that an optional dependency is expected to be present at COMPILE-TIME unless otherwise specified. Or the OP can just read the qemu/virt documentation. -Ed signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
> Maybe the *.nfo files should be extended by listing optional > dependencies, so we could handle these an automated way? NO REQUIRES in .info should only be used for mandatory dependencies, not optional dependencies. > Another subject are dependencies required only during build-time > vss dependencies required at runtime. This can be written in the README -- Willy Sudiarto Raharjo signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 10/20/2016 01:23 AM, King Beowulf wrote: > Usbredir is not a "hard" dependency that prevents qemu from compiling. > Rather, it is an optional dependency to add functionality. This is > mentioned in the README. I'm aware, but without usbredir virt-manager becomes kind of unusable. I remember on 14.1 usbredir was optional because the official libusb was too old, but since 14.2 that's not the case anymore... And in the current state the same slackbuild script will create two different binaries depending on the installed packages. And we're not able to build QEMU without usbredir support on a system with usbredir installed (no slackbuild switches / automatically enabled if found)... Maybe the *.nfo files should be extended by listing optional dependencies, so we could handle these an automated way? Another subject are dependencies required only during build-time vss dependencies required at runtime. I'm just thinking out loud ;-) -- Thomas Szteliga smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
Re: [Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
On 10/19/2016 03:26 PM, Thomas Szteliga wrote: > Hello, > > shouldn't usbredir be listed in REQUIRES of QEMU and spice-gtk? > > Because when QEMU is compiled without usbredir present > (autodetected during compilation) virt-install usage will > be problematic or even impossible. > > --- Usbredir is not a "hard" dependency that prevents qemu from compiling. Rather, it is an optional dependency to add functionality. This is mentioned in the README. -Ed signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
[Slackbuilds-users] qemu/spice-gtk and usbredir
Hello, shouldn't usbredir be listed in REQUIRES of QEMU and spice-gtk? Because when QEMU is compiled without usbredir present (autodetected during compilation) virt-install usage will be problematic or even impossible. This won't work without usbredir: # virt-install \ --connect qemu:///system \ --name guest1 \ --cdrom /srv/storage/iso/CentOS-7-x86_64-Minimal-1511.iso \ --memory 1024 \ --disk none ERROR unsupported configuration: USB redirection is not supported by this version of QEMU Domain installation does not appear to have been successful. and will work when QEMU was compiled with usbredir present: # virt-install \ --connect qemu:///system \ --name guest1 \ --cdrom /srv/storage/iso/CentOS-7-x86_64-Minimal-1511.iso \ --memory 1024 \ --disk none Starting install... Creating domain... Same goes for spice-gtk. When spice-gtk is compiled without usbredir present then View Manager in virt-manager won't be able to connect to a VM's screen. -- Thomas Szteliga smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ SlackBuilds-users mailing list SlackBuilds-users@slackbuilds.org http://lists.slackbuilds.org/mailman/listinfo/slackbuilds-users Archives - https://lists.slackbuilds.org/pipermail/slackbuilds-users/ FAQ - https://slackbuilds.org/faq/
