Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Ben Leslie]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Jobst Schmalenbach wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:02:03PM +0930, Richard Sharpe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Jobst Schmalenbach wrote:
> > 
> > > On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:53:38AM +1000, Adam F. Bogacki ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
>wrote:
> > > 
> > >>  The NZ government Government is proposing to charge GST on software
> > >> downloaded over the internet, possibly threatening the open-source model of
> > >> software distribution.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > This is actually in FAVOUR of linux. 
> > > If companies have to pay more for software (add 10% to the purchase) they'll
> > > start thinking and move to a more viable option(s).
> > > 
> > > ... and $0 + 10%gst = $0
> > 
> > Ummm, I don't think you understand how GST works. At least here in Oz, 
> > companies get to deduct the GST they have paid from the GST remittance 
> > they make to the government.
> 
> I dont, thats why I have accountants! But I actually asked two of them
> what happens when I buy software from USA (now and future, if we need to pay 10%).
> 
> Software (currently) is not taxed if you **download** it. If it gets
> via customs, add 10%. In the future (if this law will get through) downloads
> will be taxed with 10%, too! (BTW governments would be silly not to take
> this revenue, thinking that MOST of software will be via internet anyway!!)
> 
> And yes you get *SOME* of it back. You will not get all of it back or
> there wouldnt be any point of the 10% GST anyway, wouldnt it

No you get all of it back, the GST is a *consumer* tax. Anything you buy
for business will eventually be passed on to your customers (assuming you 
want to operate at a profit), if the government charges tax at both points
it is double dipping. (Incidently Hanson proposed a tax that did operate
like this although the rate was only 2% not 10%).

Anyway by now we are hopelessly off topic and it doesn't really matter
since even if you aren't paying gst on the software you are still paying
for the software anyway.

Benno

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[SLUG] LDAP server on Linux

[Jeff Ai]

Title: LDAP server on Linux






Anyone knows how to set up a LDAP server on Linux box?

Netscape Server or Open LDAP.


thanks


XT3 has changed its name to Ion Global Australia.

Jeff Ai

Tel: (612) 99002416  
Direct Fax: (612) 9900 2010


Ion Global Australia 
Ion Global 
strategic e-business integration
HK | China | Singapore | Japan | Korea | Taiwan | Thailand | Australia | USA | UK

chinadotcom corporation 





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Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Jon Biddell]

> > More importantly, how the hell can they monitor / police it ?
> > I mean, o/s software vendors aren't going to care what the NZ tax is, and
> > they ain't about to collect it !
> 
> Since when have facts, or technological possibilities, stopped governments
> from making stupid laws?

Sorry - holidays made me simple-minded for a moment. You make a good point...:-)

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Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Jobst Schmalenbach]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 04:02:03PM +0930, Richard Sharpe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Jobst Schmalenbach wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:53:38AM +1000, Adam F. Bogacki ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
>wrote:
> > 
> >>  The NZ government Government is proposing to charge GST on software
> >> downloaded over the internet, possibly threatening the open-source model of
> >> software distribution.
> > 
> > 
> > This is actually in FAVOUR of linux. 
> > If companies have to pay more for software (add 10% to the purchase) they'll
> > start thinking and move to a more viable option(s).
> > 
> > ... and $0 + 10%gst = $0
> 
> Ummm, I don't think you understand how GST works. At least here in Oz, 
> companies get to deduct the GST they have paid from the GST remittance 
> they make to the government.

I dont, thats why I have accountants! But I actually asked two of them
what happens when I buy software from USA (now and future, if we need to pay 10%).

Software (currently) is not taxed if you **download** it. If it gets
via customs, add 10%. In the future (if this law will get through) downloads
will be taxed with 10%, too! (BTW governments would be silly not to take
this revenue, thinking that MOST of software will be via internet anyway!!)

And yes you get *SOME* of it back. You will not get all of it back or
there wouldnt be any point of the 10% GST anyway, wouldnt it

> 
> So, the reality is that for companies, things do not cost 10% more, so 
> there is no advantage to using free software.

No advantage?
You have in your signature "SAMBA" included. Lets take that as an
example, shall we?

WinNT server: $600
Per seat license: $ 70 (not sure here, little bit more/less)

So for a company with 20 workstations:

 1x$600
20X $70
-
  $2000 versus Samba: $0

No incentive?
You must be kidding!



jobst



-- 
My software never has bugs; it just develops random features.

|__, Jobst Schmalenbach, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Technical Director|
|  _ _.--'-n_/   Barrett Consulting Group P/L & The Meditation Room P/L  |
|-(_)--(_)=  +61 3 9532 7677, POBox 277, Caulfield South, 3162, Australia|

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Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group

[Jon Biddell]

> I agree. Just by Sluggers, Linux persons etc putting GNU/Linux or Linux/GNU
> in the appropriate places can we say "thanks GNU to you too" (TGNU2U2)
> :-)

And, to be honest, I'd prefer to be known as a SLUGger, than a GLUGer...  Although 
that does relate well to drinking...:-)

JOn


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Re: [SLUG] LDAP server on Linux

[Howard Lowndes]

http://linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/LDAP-HOWTO.html
http://linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/LDAP-Implementation-HOWTO/index.html

-- 
Howard.  LANNet Computing Associates 
_
"We needn't, as socialists, get too concerned about privacy;
it's a bourgeois right, closely allied to the right to private property".
- Former Federal Health Minister Neal Blewett,
addressing the Fabian Society in 1988 in relation to the Australia Card issue.

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Jeff Ai wrote:

> Anyone knows how to set up a LDAP server on Linux box?
> Netscape Server or Open LDAP.
> 
> thanks


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Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Howard Lowndes]

I've often wondered about this and I've often wondered why the gummint
couldn't slap the GST on all CC charges originating O/S as they currently
do with FID/BAD etc through the banks, CC companies, etc.

Thoughts anyone?

-- 
Howard.  LANNet Computing Associates 
_
"We needn't, as socialists, get too concerned about privacy;
it's a bourgeois right, closely allied to the right to private property".
- Former Federal Health Minister Neal Blewett,
addressing the Fabian Society in 1988 in relation to the Australia Card issue.

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Jon Biddell wrote:

> > Why? What's the GST on zero?
> 
> More importantly, how the hell can they monitor / police it ?
> 
> I mean, o/s software vendors aren't going to care what the NZ tax is, and they ain't 
>about to collect it !
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Richard Sharpe]

Jobst Schmalenbach wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:53:38AM +1000, Adam F. Bogacki ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
>>  The NZ government Government is proposing to charge GST on software
>> downloaded over the internet, possibly threatening the open-source model of
>> software distribution.
> 
> 
> This is actually in FAVOUR of linux. 
> If companies have to pay more for software (add 10% to the purchase) they'll
> start thinking and move to a more viable option(s).
> 
> ... and $0 + 10%gst = $0

Ummm, I don't think you understand how GST works. At least here in Oz, 
companies get to deduct the GST they have paid from the GST remittance 
they make to the government.

So, the reality is that for companies, things do not cost 10% more, so 
there is no advantage to using free software.

> jobst

Regards
---
Richard Sharpe, [EMAIL PROTECTED], LPIC1
www.samba.org, www.ethereal.com, SAMS Teach Yourself Samba
in 24 Hours, Special Edition, Using Samba


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Re: [SLUG] Meeting details for newbie

[Michael Still]

On Wed, 20 Jun 2001, Michael Still wrote:

> I will probably be in town from Canberra on Friday the 29th, which means I
> might make it to SLUG. I have a few questions though:

Whilst it is gratify to have started my own flame war, I think I should
point out that the course got cancelled and I am therefore not able to
come this month.

ObLinux: Can anyone recommend a provider of C++ training for competent C
programmers who actually run courses? This is Linux related, because the
C++ code would of course be on Linux boxen.

It might be more appropriate for replies to be sent only to me.

Mikal

-- 
Michael Still ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  http://www.stillhq.com -- a whole bunch of Open Source stuff including PDF 
software...

"The Chad is great!The Chad is stuck!"


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[SLUG] Procmail question

[Jobst Schmalenbach]

sluggers,

  I have a problem with my procmail setup and I cant SEE it,
the mail doesnt seem to be wanting to end up in the file
IN.sysadmin. WHY??


[123] [piquet:jobst] ~/.procmail >ls -la
total 140
drwx--6 jobstjobst4096 Jun 28 16:24 .
drwx--   24 jobstjobst4096 Jun 28 15:22 ..
-rw---1 jobstjobst   0 Jun 28 15:34 IN.sysadmin
-rw---1 jobstjobst  108437 Jun 28 16:29 log
-rw---1 jobstjobst  33 Jun 28 16:23 rc.sysadmin
[stuff snipped]

This is the rule (in rc.sysadmin)

:0
* ^From.*jobst.*
IN.sysadmin



This is the procmail log entry:

>From [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Thu Jun 28 16:24:20 2001
 Subject: test
  Folder: /var/spool/mail/jobst  1119




This is the mail I receive from my start.com.au account

Return-Path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Received: from i01sv4071.ids1.intelonline.com (piquet.barrett.com.au [203.63.73.52])
  by piquet.barrett.com.au (8.10.2/8.10.1) with ESMTP id f5S6Mcn00783
  for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:22:39 +1000
Received: from i01sv0648 (unverified [10.81.26.32]) by i01sv4071.ids1.intelonline.com
 (Rockliffe SMTPRA 4.5.4) with SMTP id <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
 Thu, 28 Jun 2001 06:22:30 +
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: Jobst Schmalenbach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
X-Originating-IP: [203.63.73.52]
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 16:22:25 +1000
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-mailer: AspMail 4.0 4.02 (SMT4DD4B4F)
Subject: test
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

test
__
Get your free Australian email account at http://www.start.com.au



-- 
* help! I've fallen over and I can't SIGHUP!

|__, Jobst Schmalenbach, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Technical Director|
|  _ _.--'-n_/   Barrett Consulting Group P/L & The Meditation Room P/L  |
|-(_)--(_)=  +61 3 9532 7677, POBox 277, Caulfield South, 3162, Australia|

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Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Jeff Waugh]

> So, the reality is that for companies, things do not cost 10% more, so 
> there is no advantage to using free software.

Obviously not because Free Software is 100% less than 10% less than 110%? :)

Surely there were those other advantage of Free Software in there too...

- Jeff

-- 
 "Laughter is a force for democracy." - John Cleese 

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RE: [SLUG] Re. SLUG meeting instructions for newbie

[Adam F. Bogacki]

Dear Howard,

I don't wish to get into a flame war, but could you give me the exact
reference in www.nswtaxi.org.au where the time/distance ration in Sydney
taximeter computer chips is detailed.

I could not find it.

Also, you make the assumption that a newbie would be arriving after 10.00
PM to a SLUG meeting which starts at 7.00 PM - unrealistic.

Depending on the time of day, it is possible for a skilled professional
driver to attain constant green lights. This is done by knowing that each
phase is timed to change so that a driver travelling at (or just under) the
maximum speed limit for that area will get the same phase change as he
arrives.  This assumes no other traffic movement affecting your progress
which is difficult to achieve during normal business hours.

Nevertheless, the fare you estimate _before_ 10.00 PM is realistic and
supports my contention that the Domestic Airport->UTS taxi fare is very
competitive with the Domestic_>Central railway line, especially if you pay
$1-2 more for the privilege of being deposited on the steps of the Tower
Block.

Don't misunderstand me - I am a train buff from way back and one of my
great life experiences was travelling around India on third class railway
carriages. I have a lot of respect for Victorian railway engineering. Many
of those involved in setting up the Indian railway system - where many
isolated stations have or had  their own courthouse, police force, porters,
and a whole social infrastructure - were from Australasia as part of the
(then) British Empire.

QED.

Adam Bogacki
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Scott Howard
Sent: 24 June, 2001 03:57 PM
To: Adam F. Bogacki
Cc: Slug@Slug. Org. Au
Subject: Re: [SLUG] Re. SLUG meeting instructions for newbie




On Sun, Jun 24, 2001 at 12:48:17PM +1000, Adam F. Bogacki wrote:
> For the uninitiated, the computer chips in Sydney taxi meters depend on
two
> factors - time and distance. I don't know the exact proportion, but it's
> mainly distance.

http://www.nswtaxi.org.au will tell you.

> A quick trip from the domestic terminal directly to UTS via the shortest
> route [O'Riordan, Wyndham, Cleveland, Abercrombie and Broadway] is about
> $10.00 and _definitely_ competitive with the Domestic-Central railway.
This
> option has dependencies such as time of day, traffic conditions, and
whether
> you have the bad fortune to get stuck behind a sheep truck with a flat
tire
> in Botany Rd. in rush hour.

www.whereis.com.au gives basically this route from Shiers Ave Mascot
(Qantas domestic terminal) to Regent St, Chippendale (basically UTS), with
a total distance of 6.80Kms.

>From the details from www.nswtaxi.org.au, the cost for this trip,
if before 10pm at night, would be  (2.35 + 6.80 * 1.32), or about $11.30 -
presuming no stops. After 10pm it would go up to $14.10.
Adding in at least about 5 mins for sitting at lights etc (and it's
going to be at least that on that route for most times of the day)
takes this up to around $15-20.

So with about 5 mins of internet time, the issue is sorted :)

  Scott.



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Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group

[Jamie Honan]

A number of people have put their hands up to say GNU/Linux
is a good name, and then gone on to nominate practical difficulties
etc.

I just wanted to state again that I think the name is bad based
on philosophical reasons. There are a number of arguements various
people have brought up, but I desperately want to avoid having
a debate or putting my point of view at length and ad nauseum here.

All I am asking, well really the committee, is that if there
is any serious move to place the GNU/Linux moniker on stationery, signatures,
the web page or changing the name, that a plebiscite and debate
be taken before such a change. Hopefully in a different forum where 
only those who care about this can bore each other silly without 
dragging the rest down.

Most people aren't interested, please spare them.

Thanks
Jamie

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RE: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Adam F. Bogacki]

I wouldn't put it past our current government.

Adam.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Jeff Waugh
Sent: 28 June, 2001 01:03 AM
To: Slug@Slug. Org. Au
Subject: Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next
?]




>  The NZ government Government is proposing to charge GST on software
> downloaded over the internet, possibly threatening the open-source model
of
> software distribution.

Good god! I hope it doesn't happen here!

That ten percent on $0 is going to be a killer.

[ --> slug-chat ]

- Jeff

--
Markets are what you sell bubbly health drinks, flourescent blow up
furniture and mobile phone ring melodies to.





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Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group

[Jeff Waugh]

I so didn't want to get involved in this debate, especially on the main list
(and in threaded reply to that foolishly disrespectful email from before).



> I mean, has anyone ever tried explain to a normal person what a
> self-referential non-descriptive acronym IS? And what it has to do with
> software.

You're ignoring the humourous and hackerish. Not everything needs to be
buzzword-driven marketing speak. Least of all a freely redistributable and
modifyable Unix toolset! (ie. if you don't get GNU, why would you give a
fuck?)

> GNU/Linux is longer, harder to type, harder and say, and a nonsensical
> acronym anyways, so it's common use should not really be nescesary or
> expected. And that's not even starting with the whole
> GNU/Linux/Perl/Python etc etc argument.

Let's establish that the "what's good for the goose is good for the gander"
arguments are utter bullshit, put forward as logical extremes to make the
GNU Project seem less important in the scheme of things. Often enough,
you'll even hear people put forward "GNU/Solaris" as something that RMS
should consider, merely because Sun now ship a GNU tools cd with the OS.

I find this line of argument irrelevant at best, and disrespectful at worst.
Remember that:

 * Linux would barely (if at all) exist were it not for the GNU Project. *

That's not the prize argument for respecting Richard Stallman's interest in
having GNU out there in the minds of Linux users everywhere though...

> And I don't see RMS enforcing GNU/debian, or GNU/FreeBSD...  or does he.
> Why pick on Linux for any reason other than frustration for not being
> recognised?

Debian are sensible enough to do it themselves: Debian GNU/Linux, Debian
GNU/HURD.

Why pick on Linux?

Harsh reality: Linux got there first. It was a Free Software kernel,
released under the GPL, and basically snuck it's way into becoming the "de
facto GNU kernel". It's also not under GNU or FSF control/copyright.

I'm sure that this has hurt RMS's pride a touch, but more than that (and you
can be sure that RMS would see this as more important), Linux has taken over
the mindshare that the GNU Project could have used to further the ideals of
Free Software.

Often enough, new Linux users don't recognise the roots of the "Open Source"
movement, or how all of this software has become a possibility: We would be
UP SHIT CREEK, NOT EVEN HERE TODAY were it not for the GNU Project. I can't
make that point strong enough. I had to explain to one new user a while ago
that Linus didn't write gcc, nor did he write X.

It's important that distributions recognise this, and support the GNU
Project. It's important that organisations like SLUG make sure that everyone
understands their software, why it is "Free", and how we can help (I
remember a particularly happy email from Jamie Honan a while back, saying
"Thank a Hacker" - do it, it's fun!)

Regardless of whether or not you agree with Richard Stallman's requests
regarding "GNU/Linux", whether or not you like his attitudes, even if you
find him caustic and difficult to get along with, you *must* respect the man
(and *show* your respect) for the incredible work and tireless effort he has
put in to make what we generally end up calling "Linux" happen.

Don't forget your pants. Or your roots.

- Jeff

-- 
100% Pure Slashdot Wisdom: "Source code gives a whole new meaning to
  free software."   

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RE: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Rachel Polanskis]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Adam F. Bogacki wrote:

> Yep, but it's a foot in the door ...
> I have no objection if Mr. William Gates' XP downloads are taxed.

How will this affect subscription based software?
I presume there will be a GST based impost everytime you 
need an update


rachel

-- 
Rachel PolanskisOptus/Excite@Home
UNIX Administrator  100 Harris Street
IT Operations   Pyrmont, Sydney NSW
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Ph: (+61 2) 900 51144


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Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group

[Mike Lake]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:47:29PM +1000, Adam Kennedy wrote:
> I mean, has anyone ever tried explain to a normal person what a
> self-referential non-descriptive acronym IS? And what it has to do with
> software.

Ah no take the Microsoft way here - users don't need to know that.
It's tooo hard :-)

> The problem with GNU/Linux is not about giving credit where credit is due,
> for example Redhat Linux ( ignoring Radhat/GNU/Linux issues for a second ),
> but that by having such a difficult name for his organisation, he makes the
> adoption of it much more difficult.  People will always use a shorter name
> where one can be found.

Yeah like GNU is short, it's snappy and I can remember it. 
Geez its not like Hoest is it, well it pronounced as Herkist, but I still 
can't remember how to spell it even aftre their TV advertising campain :-)

> Personally, I think that the only time we should NEED to use GNU/Linux is
> for situations where you refer to it formally, that is, in similar
> situations to when you would refer to Redhat as Redhat Linux...
> 
> GNU/Linux is longer, harder to type, harder and say, and a nonsensical
> acronym anyways, so it's common use should not really be nescesary or
> expected. 

But if you just have it on a sig, say on official SLUG correspondance,
emails etc then you dont have to type it all the time. I have it on my web
site and Royal Society NSW web site. I still say "Linux" all the time to
friends.

> And I don't see RMS enforcing GNU/debian, or GNU/FreeBSD...  or does he. Why
> pick on Linux for any reason other than frustration for not being
> recognised?

Maybe. I prob would feel the same.

Mike
PS. Geez that fortune below this time is good...
-- 
I/O, I/O, It's off to disk I go, A bit or byte to read or write, I/O, I/O, I/O...

Michael Lake, University of Technology, Sydney
Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 
Home: http://www.speleonics.com.au
Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical.
   ***



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Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group

[Bevan Broun]

on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:47:29PM +1000, Adam Kennedy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I can't help but think RMS is shooting himself in the foot with the name
> GNU, and GNU/Linux
> 
> I mean, has anyone ever tried explain to a normal person what a
> self-referential non-descriptive acronym IS? And what it has to do with
> software.

But could we as (GNU/)linux users at least ack RMS's contrib with a
"GNU/Linux" button on the slug website pointing to the GNU site and RMS's
essays on the topic?

We could use GNU/Linux in the sig of the slug mail.

It would be a sad thing if all the people discovering unix via linux didnt
know that the GNU tools that make such a large and essential part of linux
distn are available on other systems as well.

BB
[who's been using GNU tools for longer than his been using linux, and has
been saved by those tools a few times]

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[SLUG] Joining SLUG Remotely

[Jeff Waugh]

[ In-Reply-To removed 'cos this is important in its own right. ]



> On that note is there yet a way to join slug via credit card or send a
> cheque? There was some discussion on the list a while ago but at the time
> it was being worked on. Have not heard anything since.

Neither have I. The plan was to have credit card thingeries going through
Linux Australia, but we've heard poop all, and I've no idea what the status
of LA is at the moment anyway.

Please, if you'd like to join and can't make it to the meetings, email me at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (or reply to this email) and I will give you an address to
send a cheque to.

> I am sure there a lot of SLUGers like me who don't go to the meets but are
> on the list and consider them selves SLUGers in the same right.

Thank you (and everyone who has been demanding to join) for the support! It
will certainly come in handy with some of our upcoming fests. :)

- Jeff

-- 
 "Just because I sit in front of a terminal all day doesn't mean I  
  couldn't hunt you down and righteously kick your ass to feed my   
  newfound cannabalism." - Darwinian System Administration  

-- 
SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug

Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group

[Mike Lake]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:01:58PM +1000, Bevan Broun wrote:
> But could we as (GNU/)linux users at least ack RMS's contrib with a
> "GNU/Linux" button on the slug website pointing to the GNU site and RMS's
> essays on the topic?
> 
> We could use GNU/Linux in the sig of the slug mail.

I think that is a simple and useful suggestion. It does not take much for us
to decide that that's one way to acknowledge the contributions of GNU stuff.
Just by having Linux/GNU on pages will cause newbies to ask "what's GNU" and
expand the horizons of how much open source there is.

SLUG has been, if rather informally, questioned as to why we don't refer to
Linux as GNU/Linux and this thread is now archived and searchable so our
response to RMS's comments is rather public. As SLUG is a largish and quite
well though-of LUG perhaps we should take the initiative that this gives us
and have a policy to try to give some more obvious credit where it is due.

I don't propose that we change the name but that suggestions such as 
Bevan's, and others are considered by the Committee. That SLUG take an 
active stance and maybe provide a model for other LUGs to follow in 
providing appropriate acknowledgement of GNU.

Mike
-- 
I am so optimistic about beef prices that I've just leased a pot roast with an option 
to buy.

Michael Lake, University of Technology, Sydney
Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 
Home: http://www.speleonics.com.au
Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical.
   ***



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More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug

RE: [SLUG] Re: XFree86 Version 4.0.3 / X Windows System

[Matthew Palmer]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Adam F. Bogacki wrote:

> There is also a detailed section on 'Editing Your XF86CONFIG file' in the
> "NVIDIA Accelerated Linux Driver README & Installation Guide" (last updated
> May 14, 2001) at www.nvidia.com

That's if you're using the nvidia driver (as part of the 3D accelerated
thing).


-- 
---
#include 
Matthew Palmer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Jobst Schmalenbach]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:15:46PM +1000, Adam F. Bogacki ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> I was careful to say "possibly". You could well be right.



Adam 1 Jobst 1

;-)



jhs





-- 
The computer is your friend. It never argues until Gates squeezed Chilly through the 
CDROM door!

|__, Jobst Schmalenbach, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Technical Director|
|  _ _.--'-n_/   Barrett Consulting Group P/L & The Meditation Room P/L  |
|-(_)--(_)=  +61 3 9532 7677, POBox 277, Caulfield South, 3162, Australia|

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Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Jobst Schmalenbach]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 02:15:44PM +1000, Adam F. Bogacki ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Yep, but it's a foot in the door ...
> I have no objection if Mr. William Gates' XP downloads are taxed.

Especially if they are taxed by the MEGABYTE!!
hehehehehehehe


jhs



-- 
Bowman: Open the pod bay doors, HAL.

|__, Jobst Schmalenbach, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Technical Director|
|  _ _.--'-n_/   Barrett Consulting Group P/L & The Meditation Room P/L  |
|-(_)--(_)=  +61 3 9532 7677, POBox 277, Caulfield South, 3162, Australia|

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More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug

RE: [SLUG] Re: XFree86 Version 4.0.3 / X Windows System

[Adam F. Bogacki]

There is also a detailed section on 'Editing Your XF86CONFIG file' in the
"NVIDIA Accelerated Linux Driver README & Installation Guide" (last updated
May 14, 2001) at www.nvidia.com

I'm reading through it before firing up vi to have a look at
/etc/X11/XF86Config ...

Adam

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Matthew Palmer
Sent: 28 June, 2001 12:06 PM
To: Booth, Christopher (Aus) - ATP
Cc: Slug@Slug. Org. Au
Subject: RE: [SLUG] Re: XFree86 Version 4.0.3 / X Windows System


On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Booth, Christopher (Aus) - ATP wrote:

> look for an XF86Config-4 which on Mandrake is the XF86Config file for X
> windows version 4, and the XF86Config file is for version 3.6

To complete the story: XF86Config-4 is the preferred config file for XFree
4, not X windows 4.  XFree 4 will try to use the XF86Config file if it does
not find an XF86Config-4 file in /etc/X11.  There are also a bunch of other
places it tries, see XF86Config(5) on an XFree 4 system to find out more.


--
---
#include 
Matthew Palmer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]




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RE: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Adam F. Bogacki]

I was careful to say "possibly". You could well be right.

Adam.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Jobst Schmalenbach
Sent: 28 June, 2001 11:07 AM
To: Slug@Slug. Org. Au
Subject: Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next
?]


On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:53:38AM +1000, Adam F. Bogacki
([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>  The NZ government Government is proposing to charge GST on software
> downloaded over the internet, possibly threatening the open-source model
of
> software distribution.

This is actually in FAVOUR of linux.
If companies have to pay more for software (add 10% to the purchase) they'll
start thinking and move to a more viable option(s).

.. and $0 + 10%gst = $0



jobst



--
The journey of a thousand steps begins with few hundred forgotten
necessities.

|__, Jobst Schmalenbach, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Technical
Director|
|  _ _.--'-n_/   Barrett Consulting Group P/L & The Meditation Room P/L
|
|-(_)--(_)=  +61 3 9532 7677, POBox 277, Caulfield South, 3162,
Australia|



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More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug

RE: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Adam F. Bogacki]

Yep, but it's a foot in the door ...
I have no objection if Mr. William Gates' XP downloads are taxed.

Adam.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
DaZZa
Sent: 28 June, 2001 10:55 AM
To: Adam F. Bogacki
Cc: Slug@Slug. Org. Au
Subject: Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next
?]


On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Adam F. Bogacki wrote:

>  The NZ government Government is proposing to charge GST on software
> downloaded over the internet, possibly threatening the open-source model
of
> software distribution.

Why? What's the GST on zero?

You pay GST based on the purchase price. Pay nothing - no GST.

DaZZa




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SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug

Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Jon Biddell]

> Why? What's the GST on zero?

More importantly, how the hell can they monitor / police it ?

I mean, o/s software vendors aren't going to care what the NZ tax is, and they ain't 
about to collect it !

Jon


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Re: [SLUG] Linux-G: Making Linux Hip Again

[Matthew Davidson]

>From the Keep Linux APolitical (KLAP) group (Don't flame me, I'm just
the messenger):

"It has come to our attention that a good many people have been using
Linux in a way that departs from it's charming and photogenic creator's
original intention to make a kick-ass terminal emulator.

"We are horrified to find that a group based in Cambridge, Massachusetts
has even built an operating system around it, with the nauseatingly
soppy, touchy-feely intention of performing some sort of social good.

"As obedient, hardworking, certified professionals I'm sure you
recognise how ludicrously inapprporiate it is to use software in this
manner.  In an effort to minimise the harm that could come from this we
are asking all groups who promote Linux to make the following small
concessions:

"In all communications, stress that Linux is an academic curiosity, not
part of a replacement for proprietary operating systems.  

"When using Linux to run other software, be careful about naming
conventions: ie. you're not playing Quake, or Quake-on-Linux, you are
playing Linux.

"Distance yourself from 'political' software that often comes bundled
with Linux distributions.  Be careful not to use ls, cat, bash, etc.

"We are sure that these minimal efforts will go a great way towards
dealing with those who would cheapen and distort Linus' inspiring and
powerful philosophy of... erm..."


On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 09:36:28PM +1000, Nicholas FitzRoy-Dale wrote:
> Dear SLUG list,
> 
> You have recently recieved an email forwarded from Mr. Richard Stallman,
> founder of the GNU project and worthy of great respect for the amount of
> time he spent making Linux possible when he wasn't rewriting proprietary
> printer drivers.
> 
> The email in question brought to light an issue that appears to be an increasingly
> common theme among communications from Mr. Stallman: it requested that SLUG
> members refer to "GNU/Linux" instead of just "Linux".
> 
> There was apparently some opposition to this suggestion, based on the
> totally ridiculous and obviously narrow-minded idea that to request that
> distributions change their names for the benefit of his organisation, which
> was certainly not the only one that made Linux possible, is actually
> incredibly rude.
> 
> Sadly, totally ridiculous and narrow-minded people appear to be the norm,
> which means that to many people, Mr. Stallman's Web page on the topic
> appears outlandish and silly, the rantings of a crazed zealot, rather than
> the polite, understanding communications that we, as a community, have come
> to expect from the Free Software Foundation.
> 
> With this in mind, and at jdub's urging, I have decided on a compromise.
> Brace yourselves: the name I am proposing just might BLOW YOU AWAY.
> 
> Linux-G.
> 
> That name again? Linux-G. Not only do we appease the ravenous maw of the
> GNU project (in the same way that they appease the omniscient creators
> of Unix by defining themselves as not being it), we also appeal to fans
> of rap music.
> 
> In da house! (As you may have gathered, I rarely listen to rap music.)
> 
> In keeping with another great Free Software tradition - themes - I would
> like to propose a number of other nomenclative changes:
> 
> * "Coders" shall now be known as "Homies";
> * the "Sydney Linux Users' Group" shall be renamed "The hood";
> * Any communication between members of the Linux community and the Free
> Software Foundation shall be referred to as "Rappin' wit' da yak man".
> 
> Please take time to seriously consider this request. It's very important
> that we reinforce what everybody already knows about the GNU project in an
> inconvenient, public way.
> 
> --
> Nicholas FitzRoy-Dale
> http://www.lardcave.net
> 
> PS: Please direct all replies to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I am not on the SLUG
> list.
> 
> "I was going to have a look at Evolution, because I hear that's getting
> better all the time..."
>  - Cate

--
 Industrial Workers of the World - http://www.iww.org
-- Join the One Big Union! ---  
--
 Software should not have owners - http://www.gnu.org 
 Use Debian GNU/Linux - http://www.debian.org 
--
- Parramatta Computer Access Network (PCAN) --
- http://www.cat.org.au/pcan -
--

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More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug

Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group

[Bevan Broun]

on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:26:42PM +1000, Matthew Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> He was responding to the Mundie comments and so forth, giving the usual
> history of the GNU project, etc.  I found his arguments for calling
> the system GNU/Linux quite compelling.  On the other hand, SLUG would
> lose it's snappy acronym and mascot if it were SGLUG.

I agree. Without gcc we are all lost.

> How about a compromise?  Everybody who uses GNU/Linux by definition uses
> Linux, so SLUG is still a technically correct name.  However I suggest
> (audaciously, as a non-member) that SLUG adopt a policy of when
> referring to the kernel the term "Linux" is used, otherwise "GNU/Linux",
> particularly in public forums, publicity material, etc.

This sounds like a good proposal. Perhaps the website should have some
changes.

BB
[who will join slug with $s at tomorrows meeting]

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More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug

Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group

[Adam Kennedy]

I can't help but think RMS is shooting himself in the foot with the name
GNU, and GNU/Linux

I mean, has anyone ever tried explain to a normal person what a
self-referential non-descriptive acronym IS? And what it has to do with
software.

Take for example, RNT.RNT's Not Telstra.  That could be the name of a
garbage removal service and still be correct.

The problem with GNU/Linux is not about giving credit where credit is due,
for example Redhat Linux ( ignoring Radhat/GNU/Linux issues for a second ),
but that by having such a difficult name for his organisation, he makes the
adoption of it much more difficult.  People will always use a shorter name
where one can be found.

When people say Linux, or course they are referring to the system
contributed to by GNU people, Linux people, Perl people etc, but when
describing it an a single entity, it is much more useull and efficient to
tag it with a one word description, and the name of the kernel is an obvious
choice, just like I often refer to just Debian, rather than Linux, when it
is convenient to do so.

Personally, I think that the only time we should NEED to use GNU/Linux is
for situations where you refer to it formally, that is, in similar
situations to when you would refer to Redhat as Redhat Linux...

GNU/Linux is longer, harder to type, harder and say, and a nonsensical
acronym anyways, so it's common use should not really be nescesary or
expected. And that's not even starting with the whole GNU/Linux/Perl/Python
etc etc argument.

And I don't see RMS enforcing GNU/debian, or GNU/FreeBSD...  or does he. Why
pick on Linux for any reason other than frustration for not being
recognised?

Adam


- Original Message -
From: "Bevan Broun" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Matthew Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Trevor Gunter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "SLUG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group


> on Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:26:42PM +1000, Matthew Davidson
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > He was responding to the Mundie comments and so forth, giving the usual
> > history of the GNU project, etc.  I found his arguments for calling
> > the system GNU/Linux quite compelling.  On the other hand, SLUG would
> > lose it's snappy acronym and mascot if it were SGLUG.
>
> I agree. Without gcc we are all lost.
>
> > How about a compromise?  Everybody who uses GNU/Linux by definition uses
> > Linux, so SLUG is still a technically correct name.  However I suggest
> > (audaciously, as a non-member) that SLUG adopt a policy of when
> > referring to the kernel the term "Linux" is used, otherwise "GNU/Linux",
> > particularly in public forums, publicity material, etc.
>
> This sounds like a good proposal. Perhaps the website should have some
> changes.
>
> BB
> [who will join slug with $s at tomorrows meeting]
>
> --
> SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
> More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug


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More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug

Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group

[Rodos]

On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Bevan Broun wrote:

> [who will join slug with $s at tomorrows meeting]

On that note is there yet a way to join slug via credit card or send a
cheque? There was some discussion on the list a while ago but at the time
it was being worked on. Have not heard anything since.

I am sure there a lot of SLUGers like me who don't go to the meets but are
on the list and consider them selves SLUGers in the same right.

Rodos


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Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group

[Mike Lake]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 01:26:42PM +1000, Matthew Davidson wrote:
> Linux, so SLUG is still a technically correct name.  However I suggest
> (audaciously, as a non-member) that SLUG adopt a policy of when
> referring to the kernel the term "Linux" is used, otherwise "GNU/Linux",
> particularly in public forums, publicity material, etc.

I sympathise with RMS but frankly the real world sometimes is a little harsh
and people who contribute greatly don't ge the full praise they deserve.

Last year I decided to use Linux/GNU in the "About this Site" section of the
Royal Society of New South Wales homepages.
http://www.science.uts.edu.au/rsnsw/#About

and also on my business and personal pages at:
http://www.speleonics.com.au/about.html

> It's only a little bit of care and effort to give credit where it's due,
> and put the philosophical issues front and centre.  It's frustrating

I agree. Just by Sluggers, Linux persons etc putting GNU/Linux or Linux/GNU
in the appropriate places can we say "thanks GNU to you too" (TGNU2U2)
:-)

Mike
-- 
Style may not be the answer, but at least it's a workable alternative.

Michael Lake, University of Technology, Sydney
Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 
Home: http://www.speleonics.com.au
Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical.
   ***



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Re: [SLUG] Fw: Side issue about Sydney Linux User Group

[Matthew Davidson]

RMS gave an entertaining speech last month:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/audio/audio.html#NYU2001

He was responding to the Mundie comments and so forth, giving the usual
history of the GNU project, etc.  I found his arguments for calling
the system GNU/Linux quite compelling.  On the other hand, SLUG would
lose it's snappy acronym and mascot if it were SGLUG.

How about a compromise?  Everybody who uses GNU/Linux by definition uses
Linux, so SLUG is still a technically correct name.  However I suggest
(audaciously, as a non-member) that SLUG adopt a policy of when
referring to the kernel the term "Linux" is used, otherwise "GNU/Linux",
particularly in public forums, publicity material, etc.

It's only a little bit of care and effort to give credit where it's due,
and put the philosophical issues front and centre.  It's frustrating
seeing the recent tidal wave of mainstream press coverage of Linux,
but not a word about free software (Not to mention hearing things like
"Oh, Linux - that shareware thing?").

I don't mean to provoke or perpetuate a tedious old flamewar, just
haven't heard this suggestion from anybody else and thought it might be
an acceptable compromise.

Meekly,
Matthew.

--
 Industrial Workers of the World - http://www.iww.org
-- Join the One Big Union! ---  
--
 Software should not have owners - http://www.gnu.org 
 Use Debian GNU/Linux - http://www.debian.org 
--
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- http://www.cat.org.au/pcan -
--

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Re: [SLUG] Religious Flamewar Required - authentication

[Matthew Davidson]

On Mon, Jun 25, 2001 at 02:24:11PM +1000, Matthew Palmer wrote:
> 
> Incidentally, how many PCAN tech bods have you got?  

Not many.  I've been using Debian almost exclusively on my home LAN for
a couple of years now, but I've got little real world experience.  We've
got the odd person with some specialist knowledge in this or that area,
and some sluggers/CAT/computerbank people offering what advice and
support they can in between other commitments.

> I'm based in W'gong,
> but I'm often in Sydney, and have played this game before (a place called
> Access Space in Sheffield, UK) and currently (sort of - we're playing with
> new hardware but I don't get paid).  If you need an experienced warm body,
> let me know and I'll let you know when I'm in the area.

Yes please!  A little bit of experience would greatly enhance our
current mix of gung-ho spirit and rank amateurism.  Sign up to the
mailing list via http://www.cat.org.au/pcan to find out when/where we're
meeting next.

Matthew.

--
 Industrial Workers of the World - http://www.iww.org
-- Join the One Big Union! ---  
--
 Software should not have owners - http://www.gnu.org 
 Use Debian GNU/Linux - http://www.debian.org 
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- Parramatta Computer Access Network (PCAN) --
- http://www.cat.org.au/pcan -
--

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Re: [SLUG] Postscript to HPGL converter

[enterfornone]

> Hello Folks
> 
> Does anyone know of an opensource postscript to HPGL (pen plotter)
> converter?
> 
> My genealogical chart has expanded well beyond the A3 size and now I
> have access to a Pen plotter, it makes sense to do A0 plots.
> Unfortunately, the only output is linux app (Lifelines) output is
> postscript.

Google found this...

http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~geller/linux.html


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[SLUG] Postscript to HPGL converter

[Terry Collins]

Hello Folks

Does anyone know of an opensource postscript to HPGL (pen plotter)
converter?

My genealogical chart has expanded well beyond the A3 size and now I
have access to a Pen plotter, it makes sense to do A0 plots.
Unfortunately, the only output is linux app (Lifelines) output is
postscript.

--
   Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861  
   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]  www: http://www.woa.com.au  
   WOA Computer Services 

 "People without trees are like fish without clean water"

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RE: [SLUG] Re: XFree86 Version 4.0.3 / X Windows System

[Matthew Palmer]

On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Booth, Christopher (Aus) - ATP wrote:

> look for an XF86Config-4 which on Mandrake is the XF86Config file for X
> windows version 4, and the XF86Config file is for version 3.6

To complete the story: XF86Config-4 is the preferred config file for XFree
4, not X windows 4.  XFree 4 will try to use the XF86Config file if it does
not find an XF86Config-4 file in /etc/X11.  There are also a bunch of other
places it tries, see XF86Config(5) on an XFree 4 system to find out more.


-- 
---
#include 
Matthew Palmer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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[SLUG] New Optimiser will save you 15% plus on your health insurance

[Michelle Jones]

  
Visit www.optimizeyourhealthcover.com 
and learn how to save a lot on your health insurance.
 
But if you are not interested optimising 
your private health plan; please click below to be removed from further 
correspondencehttp://www.optimizeyourhealthcover.com/optout/optout.htm

Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Jobst Schmalenbach]

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:53:38AM +1000, Adam F. Bogacki ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> 
>  The NZ government Government is proposing to charge GST on software
> downloaded over the internet, possibly threatening the open-source model of
> software distribution.

This is actually in FAVOUR of linux. 
If companies have to pay more for software (add 10% to the purchase) they'll
start thinking and move to a more viable option(s).

.. and $0 + 10%gst = $0



jobst



-- 
The journey of a thousand steps begins with few hundred forgotten necessities.

|__, Jobst Schmalenbach, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Technical Director|
|  _ _.--'-n_/   Barrett Consulting Group P/L & The Meditation Room P/L  |
|-(_)--(_)=  +61 3 9532 7677, POBox 277, Caulfield South, 3162, Australia|

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More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug

Re: [SLUG] Apache: Compiling in mod_so support (Redhat 7.1)

[Colin Humphreys]

One thing you should do is to setup rpm so you don't compile as root.

Maximum-RPM is really good: http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm/

Building RPM's as root is dangerous, because the binary files are
installed on the system before being packaged. Now if the spec file has
a problem it is possible to pollute your system with broken files.

Also some packages will only compile as a non root user for securuty
reasons...

Make a directory tree under your home dir like the existing
/usr/src/redhat tree

mkdir ~/rpm

BUILD
RPMS/noarch
RPMS/i386
RPMS/i486
RPMS/i586
SOURCES
SPECS
SRPMS
tmp

Make a .rpmmacros file (replacing the values with your ones)

%_topdir/home/ch/rpm
%_tmppath   /home/ch/rpm/tmp

%distribution  vannevar
%vendorvannevar (http://vannevar.encypher.net)
%packager  Colin Humphreys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Now you should be able to do it non-root.
-Colin

On Thu, Jun 28, 2001 at 12:06:21AM +1000, Matthew Clark wrote:
> Something along the lines of
> 1) Install the source rpm -i apache.src.rpm
> 2) Edit the spec file
> 3) Build the binary rpm
> 4) Install the binary rpm
> 
> Mehmet Ozdemir wrote:
> 
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I'd like to enable mod_so support in apache. I currently have the
> > default apache installed with Redhat 7.1 (apache-1.3.19-5). Which was
> > installed from a binary rpm w/o mod_so support. While I can remove it a
> > download the *.tar.gz file and complie it, I'd like to keep the rpm setup.
> >
> > So how can I do this with *.src.rpm ? My only experience with src.rpms
> > is rpm --rebuild. Does any anyone know how to do this?
> >
> > Any help appreciated.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Mehmet Ozdemir
> >
> > --
> > SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
> > More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
> 
> 
> -- 
> SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
> More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug
> 

-- 
Your excuse is: /dev/clue was linked to /dev/null

 PGP signature

Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Jeff Waugh]

>  The NZ government Government is proposing to charge GST on software
> downloaded over the internet, possibly threatening the open-source model of
> software distribution.

Good god! I hope it doesn't happen here!

That ten percent on $0 is going to be a killer.

[ --> slug-chat ]

- Jeff

-- 
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furniture and mobile phone ring melodies to.

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Re: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Adam Kennedy]

$0 + 10/12/15%? = $0

No problem see I


- A different Adam


- Original Message -
From: "Adam F. Bogacki" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Slug@Slug. Org. Au" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:53 AM
Subject: [SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]


>
>  The NZ government Government is proposing to charge GST on software
> downloaded over the internet, possibly threatening the open-source model
of
> software distribution.
>
> Adam Bogacki,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>  http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/PA0106/S00406.htm
>


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[SLUG] NZ proposes GST on downloaded software.[ Here next ?]

[Adam F. Bogacki]

 The NZ government Government is proposing to charge GST on software
downloaded over the internet, possibly threatening the open-source model of
software distribution.

Adam Bogacki,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/PA0106/S00406.htm

 Scoop GST Changes For Electronic Commerce Proposed.url

Re: [SLUG] Apache: Compiling in mod_so support (Redhat 7.1)

[Matthew Clark]

Something along the lines of
1) Install the source rpm -i apache.src.rpm
2) Edit the spec file
3) Build the binary rpm
4) Install the binary rpm

Mehmet Ozdemir wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I'd like to enable mod_so support in apache. I currently have the
> default apache installed with Redhat 7.1 (apache-1.3.19-5). Which was
> installed from a binary rpm w/o mod_so support. While I can remove it a
> download the *.tar.gz file and complie it, I'd like to keep the rpm setup.
>
> So how can I do this with *.src.rpm ? My only experience with src.rpms
> is rpm --rebuild. Does any anyone know how to do this?
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mehmet Ozdemir
>
> --
> SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
> More Info: http://lists.slug.org.au/listinfo/slug


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Re: [SLUG] SCP on debian

[Ken Foskey]

Matt Hope wrote:

> 
> matth@rtfm:~% apt-cache show ssh | grep Filename
> Filename: dists/potato/non-US/main/binary-sparc/ssh_1.2.3-9.3.deb
> 
> 'ssh' is in the non-US tree, make sure you add some non-US sources to your
> /etc/apt/sources.list. Personally, I use
> 
> deb http://mirror.cse.unsw.edu.au/pub/linux/debian-non-US stable/non-US \
> main contrib non-free
> 
> (this probably wont work right this moment, however - the server is down)


Well that explains why copying the setup from my laptop did not work. 
Laptop was set up at CSE.   I was a little confused.

Freeswan is checking for /boot/system.map (? from memory) and saying it 
does not match.

Where is it supposed to be on Debian?
Where is it configured in freeswan?
Is it a possible bogus message?

I installed with 'make bzlilo'.
Thanks
KenF


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[SLUG] Debian kernel source

[Ken Foskey]

> 
> $ dpkg -S /usr/include/linux/version.h 
> libc6-dev: /usr/include/linux/version.h
> 
> So on my Debian system that suggests that you need the development library
> sources for libc6.


One thing that irked me a little was that I installed the kernel source 
for DEB and it did not require GCC and GCC did not require the include 
libraries.

Strange
KenF


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Re: [SLUG] Apache: why doesn't "allow from localhost work" ?

[getadog]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 06:56:07PM +1000, Mike Lake wrote:
> So if I was using 'localhost' which is refering to a URL that the request
> comes from then it would use ServerName:Port ie b4114:80 ?
> (Real names here now.)
> With it off (ie just now I commented it out) what would it use as
> hostname for me gives b4114
> Im a little confused between the server name and hostname.

I'm not an apache expert, I could be wrong.

If you set a ServerName and UseCanonicalName On apache will redirect 
your browser to what ever you set your ServerName to. 

If you don't  set a ServerName and set UseCanonicalName On apache will 
redirect your browser to `hostname -f`. 

If you set UseCanonicalName Off (Commenting it out turned it on for me), 
apache won't redirect you at all.

I think its easier to see whats happening with wget -S localhost/~mikel,

Try setting:
ServerName www.bogus.name
UseCanonicalName On

Then wget -S http://localhost/~mikel


# ServerName  www.bogus.name
UseCanonicalName On

Then  wget -S http://localhost/~mikel


# ServerName  www.bogus.name
UseCanonicalName Off

Then wget -S http://localhost/~mikel


> Thats excellent. Yep run as root I can see it shows all the packets on the
> local interface and dumps lots when you use the browser at http://localhost
> etc. I'll have a play and see the diff with b4114. 

Its probably easier to see with ping.

tcpdump -i lo icmp

then 

ping -c1 localhost
 
And you should get:
src address  dst 
address
19:06:11.586106 localhost > localhost: icmp: echo request (DF)
19:06:11.586190 localhost > localhost: icmp: echo reply (DF)


ping -c1 mycomputername

19:06:13.469223 mycomputername > mycomputername: icmp: echo request (DF)
19:06:13.469307 mycomputername > mycomputername: icmp: echo reply (DF)

Your source address changes depending on which interface you are pinging.

What I think was happening was you were pointing your browser to
http://localhost/~mikel, and apache was redirecting it to 
http://mycomputername/~mikel, so when your browser tried to go to 
http://mycomputername/~mikel, it used as its soucre ip address 
mycomputername, which was denied.
Clear as mud? :)



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Re: [SLUG] Installing Driver Problems Under Red Hat 6.2

[Mike Lake]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 06:34:10PM +1000, D.V.Rogers wrote:
> Hi All
> Wondering if anyone can help out with why I am having trouble installing
> a driver under Red Hat 6.2
> Kernel 2.2.17-14.

Right at teh very start of the build you have...
 
> [root@seismic driver]# make depend
> /bin/cp Makefile.orig Makefile
> /usr/bin/X11/makedepend dio48h.c diotest.c
> /usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c, line 1: cannot find include
> file "linux/version.h"
>   not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/version.h
>   not in /usr/include/linux/version.h

$ dpkg -S /usr/include/linux/version.h 
libc6-dev: /usr/include/linux/version.h

So on my Debian system that suggests that you need the development library
sources for libc6.

Mike
-- 
Oh, I've seen copies [of Linux Journal] around the terminal room at The Labs. -- 
Dennis Ritchie

Michael Lake, University of Technology, Sydney
Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 
Home: http://www.speleonics.com.au
Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical.
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Re: [SLUG] Using Locate Under Red Hat 6.2

[Mike Lake]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 06:36:47PM +1000, D.V.Rogers wrote:
> Hello All (Again)
> When using locate under Red Hat 6.2 i get the following;
> you need to run the /etc/cron.daily/slocate.cron command as root
> How do I do this?

Have a look at that file ie /etc/cron.daily/slocate.cron
You will prob find that its a script that runs something like this:

#!/bin/sh
/usr/bin/slocate -u -f "nfs,smbfs,ncpfs,proc,devpts" -e
"/tmp,/var/tmp,/usr/tmp,/afs,/net"

That script just runs a program called slocate that updates a database of
where all the files are - ie keeps the database up-to-date.

You can run the script from /etc/cron.daily by hand.
Just go into the directory and type ./slocate as root.
It will run and do its job.

You are prob getting the message because the system has not had a chance to
run the script for a while.

Mike
-- 
It's sweet to be remembered, but it's often cheaper to be forgotten.

Michael Lake, University of Technology, Sydney
Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 
Home: http://www.speleonics.com.au
Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical.
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RE: [SLUG] Re: XFree86 Version 4.0.3 / X Windows System

[Booth, Christopher (Aus) - ATP]

look for an XF86Config-4 which on Mandrake is the XF86Config file for X
windows version 4, and the XF86Config file is for version 3.6

Chris

-Original Message-
From: Matthew Palmer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2001 12:02
To: Adam F. Bogacki
Cc: Slug@Slug. Org. Au
Subject: [SLUG] Re: XFree86 Version 4.0.3 / X Windows System


On Wed, 27 Jun 2001, Adam F. Bogacki wrote:

> "apt-get install xserver-xfree86 xbase-clients"
> 
> (nifty the way apt-get fires up the modem for the download, then shuts it
> down)

Cool, isn't it!

> except for one thing  the install routine gave a very restricted
choice
> of video cards.
> My system uses the NVIDIA TNT2 SERIES v.365 video card so I chose the 'nv'
> option ...

A wise choice, and the best under the circumstances.  If you want the best
possible support for your card, though, you'll need to get the binary-only
drivers from nVidia's website (www.nvidia.com) and install them.  There's a
kernel module (for DRM) and a bunch of libraries which replace ones already
on your system, as well as a new 'nvidia' XFree 4 driver.

> When I rebooted I was still in console mode, with the following readout.

> (==) Using configfile: "/etc/X11/XF86Config"
> Data incomplete in file /etc/X11/XF86Config
>   Device section "Primary Card" must have a driver line.

Aah, bugger.  Time to fire up the text editor and take a look at
/etc/X11/XF86Config.  My guess is it's still the 3.3.6 one, worse luck.
The Debian XFree 4 config script is still shot at this time - it
occasionally works, but usually craps up in a variety of interesting ways.

I've put up a copy of the config file I used when I was using the nv driver
previously, at http://ieee.uow.edu.au/~mjp16/XF86Config-nv.  I've since
upped to the closed-source nvidia driver, which works well but requires a
pile of fiddling.  If you're running a 2.4.3 kernel, I've got a private
package I created of all the necessary stuff.  Add a line to sources.list:

deb http://ieee.uow.edu.au/~mjp16/debian local contrib

and do the necessary update.  Then apt-get install nvidia, it'll install the
libraries and everything required.  The module was compiled for 2.4.3, but
there is a tarball of the source code for the kernel module in
/usr/src/modules if you want to recompile for another 2.4 kernel.  I doubt
it'll work on 2.2, but you can try.


-- 
---
#include 
Matthew Palmer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [SLUG] Apache: why doesn't "allow from localhost work" ?

[Mike Lake]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 06:25:30PM +1000, getadog wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 06:16:07PM +1000, Mike Lake wrote:
> > When I point it at http://localhost/~mikel I get 
> > "Forbidden You don't have permission to access /~mikel on this server."
> > AND the URL in the browser changes to:
> > http://mycomputername.mydomain.edu.au/~mikel/
 
> In your apache configuration search for UseCanonicalName 
> and set it to off. Comments in the file explain what it means.

AH! thats it.  http://localhost/~mikel now access my public_html directory
with "allow from localhost". I can now convert all iinstances of my own 
static addr in the access file to localhost.

# UseCanonicalName:  (new for 1.3)  With this setting turned on, whenever
# Apache needs to construct a self-referencing URL (a url that refers back
# to the server the response is coming from) it will use ServerName and
# Port to form a "canonical" name.  With this setting off, Apache will
# use the hostname:port that the client supplied, when possible.  This
# also affects SERVER_NAME and SERVER_PORT in CGIs.
#UseCanonicalName on

So if I was using 'localhost' which is refering to a URL that the request
comes from then it would use ServerName:Port ie b4114:80 ?
(Real names here now.)
With it off (ie just now I commented it out) what would it use as
hostname for me gives b4114
Im a little confused between the server name and hostname.

This machine here has name b4114 but its not listed in the Unis DNS.
I have 
#ServerName new.host.name
of course commented out.

> > Dont really follow about the binding.
> > I understand about mapping to an address if it can loo up an addr from a
> > name but not the bit about the "from" bit. 
> 
> try tcpdump -i lo then point your browser to http://localhost/
> and then http://mycomputername. Look at how your source
> address changes depending on which address you point your browser
> to.

Thats excellent. Yep run as root I can see it shows all the packets on the
local interface and dumps lots when you use the browser at http://localhost
etc. I'll have a play and see the diff with b4114. 

Mike
-- 
The future is a myth created by insurance salesmen and high school counselors.

Michael Lake, University of Technology, Sydney
Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 
Home: http://www.speleonics.com.au
Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical.
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RE: [SLUG] Re: [chat] Sydney Loves Using GNU/Linux

[Booth, Christopher (Aus) - ATP]

slug'nu

-Original Message-
From: Jobst Schmalenbach [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2001 11:31
To: SLUG
Cc: Jeff Waugh; Penguinillas
Subject: [SLUG] Re: [chat] Sydney Loves Using GNU/Linux


On Tue, Jun 26, 2001 at 05:56:48PM +1000, Jeff Waugh ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
wrote:
> 
> 
> > Don't flame me. I'm just the messenger
> 
> But you will start a flamewar. :)


Glug -> I wouldnt get any work done, the pub is just 150 meters from
our side entrance door .. anybody care to join???



slagug == Sydney Linux And Gnu User Group


jobst




-- 
Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality.

|__, Jobst Schmalenbach, [EMAIL PROTECTED], Technical
Director|
|  _ _.--'-n_/   Barrett Consulting Group P/L & The Meditation Room P/L
|
|-(_)--(_)=  +61 3 9532 7677, POBox 277, Caulfield South, 3162,
Australia|

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RE: [SLUG] Apache: why doesn't "allow from localhost work" ?

[Booth, Christopher (Aus) - ATP]

I don't think that it is an apache thing at all.
If you are using a proxy address, put as exclusions in your browser proxy
settings - 130.10.11.12 127.0.0.1  localhost

Chris

-Original Message-
From: Mike Lake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2001 6:16
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [SLUG] Apache: why doesn't "allow from localhost work" ?


On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:48:48PM +1000, Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:11:24PM +1000, Mike Lake wrote:
> > # allow from localhost  # why does this not work?
> 
> Are you pointing your browser at 
>   http://localhost/blah
> or at:
>   http://mycomputername/blah

When I point it at http://localhost/~mikel I get 
"Forbidden You don't have permission to access /~mikel on this server."

AND the URL in the browser changes to:
http://mycomputername.mydomain.edu.au/~mikel/

(That means that localhost is being resolved to mycomputer.mydomain I
gather)

When I point it at http://mycomputername/~mikel I get 
"Forbidden You don't have permission to access /~mikel on this server."

> At a guess, the first should work, and the second shouldn't. 
Nope. neither.

If I point it just to http://localhost I get:
You don't have permission to access / on this server.

If I point it to http://mycomputername I get the correct index.html file 
in /var/www

> Your browser is free to bind to any local interface it likes when it
creates
> a socket to connect to somewhere... default behaviour for sockets is to
> try pick an appropriate interface, so if you point your browser at a
> "real" IP addres, or a domain name that maps to one, it will connect
> from your internet connection's address, not your localhost one.
> I hope this helps (and I hope I'm making sense :)

Dont really follow about the binding.
I understand about mapping to an address if it can loo up an addr from a
name but not the bit about the "from" bit. 

Mike
-- 
Don't worry if you're a kleptomaniac; you can always take something for it.

Michael Lake, University of Technology, Sydney
Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 
Home: http://www.speleonics.com.au
Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical.
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[SLUG] Using Locate Under Red Hat 6.2

[D.V.Rogers]

Hello All (Again)

When using locate under Red Hat 6.2 i get the following;

you need to run the /etc/cron.daily/slocate.cron command as root

How do I do this?

Thanks once agin

Regards

David
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www.allshookup.org
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[SLUG] Installing Driver Problems Under Red Hat 6.2

[D.V.Rogers]

Hi All

Wondering if anyone can help out with why I am having trouble installing
a driver under Red Hat 6.2
Kernel 2.2.17-14.

Red Hat 6.2 is newly installed and the driver I need to install works
fine under SuSE 7.0
Below are the command line outputs when I ;
(apologies_its long!)
1. make depend
2. make
3. make devices
4. make install

Any solutions greatly appreciated as always.
Thanks in advance.

Regards
David
-

[root@seismic driver]# make depend
/bin/cp Makefile.orig Makefile
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend dio48h.c diotest.c
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c, line 1: cannot find include
file "linux/version.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/version.h
not in /usr/include/linux/version.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/version.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
16): cannot find include file "linux/autoconf.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/autoconf.h
not in /usr/include/linux/autoconf.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/autoconf.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
25): cannot find include file "linux/version.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/version.h
not in /usr/include/linux/version.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/version.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
26): cannot find include file "linux/module.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/module.h
not in /usr/include/linux/module.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/module.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
27): cannot find include file "linux/types.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/types.h
not in /usr/include/linux/types.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/types.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
28): cannot find include file "linux/errno.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/errno.h
not in /usr/include/linux/errno.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/errno.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
29): cannot find include file "linux/fs.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/fs.h
not in /usr/include/linux/fs.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/fs.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
30): cannot find include file "linux/major.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/major.h
not in /usr/include/linux/major.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/major.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
31): cannot find include file "linux/mm.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/mm.h
not in /usr/include/linux/mm.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/mm.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
32): cannot find include file "linux/timer.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/timer.h
not in /usr/include/linux/timer.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/timer.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
33): cannot find include file "linux/ioport.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/ioport.h
not in /usr/include/linux/ioport.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/ioport.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
34): cannot find include file "linux/kernel.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/kernel.h
not in /usr/include/linux/kernel.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/kernel.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
35): cannot find include file "linux/malloc.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/malloc.h
not in /usr/include/linux/malloc.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/malloc.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
36): cannot find include file "linux/string.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/string.h
not in /usr/include/linux/string.h
not in
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/linux/string.h
/usr/bin/X11/makedepend: warning:  dio48h.c (reading dio48h_2_2.c, line
37): cannot find include file "linux/signal.h"
not in /usr/local/lib/gcc-include/linux/signal.h
not in /us

Re: [SLUG] Apache: why doesn't "allow from localhost work" ?

[Mike Lake]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:48:48PM +1000, Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> At a guess, the first should work, and the second shouldn't.  Your
> browser is free to bind to any local interface it likes when it creates
> a socket to connect to somewhere... default behaviour for sockets is to
> try pick an appropriate interface, so if you point your browser at a
> "real" IP addres, or a domain name that maps to one, it will connect
> from your internet connection's address, not your localhost one.

Thats what I can't follow yet - that the "internet connection address" that
my browser is connecting FROM is not the same as "localhost" which is me.

My browser, in order for return packets to get back to my browser, sits on I
gather mycomputer:80 ie port 80 on my machine.
localhost is a "synonym" for 127.0.0.1 (cause /etc/hosts maps it) which is 
my machine but not a machine and a port ie its just a machine. 

Is that right?

-- 
Nirvana? That's the place where the powers that be and their friends hang out. -- 
Zonker Harris

Michael Lake, University of Technology, Sydney
Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 
Home: http://www.speleonics.com.au
Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical.
   ***



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Re: [SLUG] Apache: why doesn't "allow from localhost work" ?

[getadog]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 06:16:07PM +1000, Mike Lake wrote:
> 
> When I point it at http://localhost/~mikel I get 
> "Forbidden You don't have permission to access /~mikel on this server."
> 
> AND the URL in the browser changes to:
> http://mycomputername.mydomain.edu.au/~mikel/

In your apache configuration search for UseCanonicalName 
and set it to off. Comments in the file explain what it means.

> (That means that localhost is being resolved to mycomputer.mydomain I
> gather)

It apache is redirecting the browser to 
http://mycomputername.mydomain.edu.au/~mikel/

> Dont really follow about the binding.
> I understand about mapping to an address if it can loo up an addr from a
> name but not the bit about the "from" bit. 

try tcpdump -i lo then point your browser to http://localhost/
and then http://mycomputername. Look at how your source
address changes depending on which address you point your browser
to.



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Re: [SLUG] Apache: why doesn't "allow from localhost work" ?

[Mike Lake]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:48:48PM +1000, Andrew Bennetts wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:11:24PM +1000, Mike Lake wrote:
> > # allow from localhost  # why does this not work?
> 
> Are you pointing your browser at 
>   http://localhost/blah
> or at:
>   http://mycomputername/blah

When I point it at http://localhost/~mikel I get 
"Forbidden You don't have permission to access /~mikel on this server."

AND the URL in the browser changes to:
http://mycomputername.mydomain.edu.au/~mikel/

(That means that localhost is being resolved to mycomputer.mydomain I
gather)

When I point it at http://mycomputername/~mikel I get 
"Forbidden You don't have permission to access /~mikel on this server."

> At a guess, the first should work, and the second shouldn't. 
Nope. neither.

If I point it just to http://localhost I get:
You don't have permission to access / on this server.

If I point it to http://mycomputername I get the correct index.html file 
in /var/www

> Your browser is free to bind to any local interface it likes when it creates
> a socket to connect to somewhere... default behaviour for sockets is to
> try pick an appropriate interface, so if you point your browser at a
> "real" IP addres, or a domain name that maps to one, it will connect
> from your internet connection's address, not your localhost one.
> I hope this helps (and I hope I'm making sense :)

Dont really follow about the binding.
I understand about mapping to an address if it can loo up an addr from a
name but not the bit about the "from" bit. 

Mike
-- 
Don't worry if you're a kleptomaniac; you can always take something for it.

Michael Lake, University of Technology, Sydney
Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 
Home: http://www.speleonics.com.au
Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical.
   ***



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Re: [SLUG] Apache: why doesn't "allow from localhost work" ?

[Mike Lake]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:21:30PM +1000, Mike Lake wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:12:59PM +1000, enterfornone wrote:
> > Does it do DNS lookups?  Perhaps 127.0.0.1 would be better than localhost.
> 
> To the first part, ?
> To the second part, no 127.0.0.1 also does not work.

Ok. my /etc/hosts says

127.0.0.1   localhost
etc.some other machines

so it should be able to understand localhost as 127.0.0.1 as I have

# /etc/nsswitch.conf
blah blah...
hosts:  files dns

Now that line above should tell system to look at files first before trying
to resolve via dns and my name server. But surely would not Apache know that
127.0.0.1 is this machine?

Mike
-- 
Weinberg's Second Law: If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, 
then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization.

Michael Lake, University of Technology, Sydney
Work: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 
Home: http://www.speleonics.com.au
Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical.
   ***



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Re: [SLUG] Apache: why doesn't "allow from localhost work" ?

[Andrew Bennetts]

On Wed, Jun 27, 2001 at 05:11:24PM +1000, Mike Lake wrote:
> # allow from localhost  # why does this not work?

Are you pointing your browser at 
  http://localhost/blah
or at:
  http://mycomputername/blah
?

At a guess, the first should work, and the second shouldn't.  Your
browser is free to bind to any local interface it likes when it creates
a socket to connect to somewhere... default behaviour for sockets is to
try pick an appropriate interface, so if you point your browser at a
"real" IP addres, or a domain name that maps to one, it will connect
from your internet connection's address, not your localhost one.

I hope this helps (and I hope I'm making sense :)

-Andrew.


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