[SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo
Greetings All, With just 5 weeks to go to the big event on 14 and 15 May at Rosehill Racecourse, Sydney, things are shaping up beautifully. LA is on the the List of Exhibitors (200+ to date) on the expo website at www.edexpo.info To date: * We have our awesome LA banner so we're sure to be seen, * LA will be supplying the Cd's and a few T-shirts for the LA pack * I'm supplying the stuffed penguin's and penguin pendants for the LA pack * Moe Kaan's arranging hardware and setup for the day, * Chris Deigan has kindly offered to make up some SLUG information Handouts and help out in person at the Expo, thank you! * I'm looking into making some simple posters for the booth with 'What is Linux and Open Source Software' 'Who uses Linux?' with a brief list of large organizations/schools A competition where kids and adults answer simple questions about Linux with clues found around the booth, we'd like to make the experience as hands on as possible. We are still in need of: * Suggestions for the student/teacher niche, what else do we need to inform them about? * Is it possible to have the OSIA logo blown up and displayed to show teachers and principals their is an industry body? *Can we have some information handouts on LPI certification considering some IT colleges are offering distro specific certification course info over the two days? * Floor personnel on either of the days to distribute Cd's and do plenty of talking * Confirmation in writing to me if you will be helping on one or both days and how long you will be available. Regards, Sara -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Re: [chat] Wireless
Howard Lowndes wrote:
Much the same effect as the colorbond fence between myself and my
neighbours place - say Faraday cage.
If this is their WAP, then the next time they have problem, suggest
putting it on a shelf high in the room {:-)
I actually have a w1nd0ws hack, spit, cough splutter boxen currently
enjoying the benefits of such a location over a similar fence {:-).
Sigh, I must be a softy as I've been slowly reeling in Junior from next
door that it is HIS WAP I've hacked[1] (someone must have reset the
boxen and not put in the admin and encryption this time).
[1] as in fired up the lappy and looked at the signals I can see and
tried them all. One very weak (my WAP is broken atm), one very strong.
Then boxen says it is a NUTCASE. Oh, look up manual online for Nutcase
and try default login. Bingo. sigh and I was looking forward to maybe a
little challenge.
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing
People without trees are like fish without clean water
--
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Re: [SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo
Sara from ABD Computer Installations wrote: We are still in need of: * Suggestions for the student/teacher niche, what else do we need to inform them about? I know you and others have probably thought a lot about this, and you want more concrete suggestions, but here's my 2c worth of what sort of things need dealing with in the school educational market: - non-computer-geek/nerd students use a computer mostly for MSN type chatting, MP3'ing and browsing the web and don't really give a stuff about anything else. Obviously they want to be able to use a word processor of some sort but it doesn't really interest them. Pirated software is the norm - scare tactics generally don't work with students - teachers have some say in schools, though not the final say - the hip-pocket does appeal to teachers as they have budgets to work within usually - teachers in general are not interested in the FOSS debate, they don't care. They simply want whatever will get their job done with the least inconvenience to them, which means they have no loyalty necessarily to any particular type of software as long as it is easy to use (familiarity does come into it here though) and does the job. - some teachers do struggle with the idea of free (as in beer) software and think it is therefore of a lesser quality than paid for software - for schools, the cost of Windows/Office is negligible even though it adds up. For starters Windows cost is included in the PC anyway. The cost of Office (around $80 per licence last I looked) is somewhat outweighed by less stress from teachers who are used to Office and hence bursars/business managers/principals are less hassled by staff. I've never met a bunch of people more unwilling to learn something different than teachers. - there is a lot of scope of FOSS in libraries, but again there is the idea that free cannot be quality - educational software being available for Linux is a problem, so perhaps a push for FOSS that runs on Windows/MAC as well. It needs to be targetted obviously - eg a DT teacher would want to know what FOSS CAD and design applications there are. I've had some success with this sort of thing - eventually the only thing keeping them on Windows is Office. That is the hardest to convert. Yes, there is OpenOffice and so on, but as I said before teachers really HATE learning new stuff that is not directly in their sphere - they just want to get down to teaching, and learning a new office package is just a nuisance. Perhaps a flyer with some web sites that list available FOSS software or FOSS related sites even? Anyway, just my 2c worth (ok maybe its a little more than 2c). Fil -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
RE: [SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo
Just some comments as I work as an IT Manager in a school, see inline -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Phil Scarratt Sent: Mon, 11. April 2005 4:48 PM To: Sara from ABD Computer Installations Cc: slug@slug.org.au; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo Sara from ABD Computer Installations wrote: We are still in need of: * Suggestions for the student/teacher niche, what else do we need to inform them about? - non-computer-geek/nerd students use a computer mostly for MSN type chatting, MP3'ing and browsing the web and don't really give a stuff about anything else. Obviously they want to be able to use a word processor of some sort but it doesn't really interest them. Pirated software is the norm - scare tactics generally don't work with students This is pretty much true - however boys are more inquisitive about hardware, girls generally just want to use them. Sounds sexist but is based on 30 years in schools. - teachers have some say in schools, though not the final say - the hip-pocket does appeal to teachers as they have budgets to work within usually As pointed out later the cost of MS Software is almost negligible when on the Schools Agreement or Select Agreement, this is on a per system basis. The Schools Agreement for instance, last time I checked would cost me over $15,000 per year. - teachers in general are not interested in the FOSS debate, they don't care. They simply want whatever will get their job done with the least inconvenience to them, which means they have no loyalty necessarily to any particular type of software as long as it is easy to use (familiarity does come into it here though) and does the job. Most teachers have been steamrolled by the MS juggernaut - if it ain't Windows or MS Office then ain't any good and they aren't going to learn - some teachers do struggle with the idea of free (as in beer) software and think it is therefore of a lesser quality than paid for software - for schools, the cost of Windows/Office is negligible even though it adds up. For starters Windows cost is included in the PC anyway. The cost of Office (around $80 per licence last I looked) is somewhat outweighed by less stress from teachers who are used to Office and hence This is on the Select Agreement, these are non-upgradeable licences, if you have MS Office 2000 and want to go to 2003 then buy all the licences again. bursars/business managers/principals are less hassled by staff. I've never met a bunch of people more unwilling to learn something different than teachers. Amen!! If students were as recalcitrant as teachers they would all be on detention every day for failure to even try! - there is a lot of scope of FOSS in libraries, but again there is the idea that free cannot be quality - educational software being available for Linux is a problem, so perhaps a push for FOSS that runs on Windows/MAC as well. It needs to be targeted obviously - eg a DT teacher would want to know what FOSS CAD and design applications there are. I've had some success with this sort of thing - eventually the only thing keeping them on Windows is Office. I find it is not Office but the range of other educational software, where the market is too small for authors to do more than a Windows version. I have put teachers into OO and not told them - just said it was a new version of Word - they were quite happy! That is the hardest to convert. Yes, there is OpenOffice and so on, but as I said before teachers really HATE learning new stuff that is not directly in their sphere - they just want to get down to teaching, and learning a new office package is just a nuisance. Perhaps a flyer with some web sites that list available FOSS software or FOSS related sites even? Teachers have an education mentality, students can't learn unless they teach them, therefore they can't do anything new unless someone runs a course in it. The biggest push I believe to move teachers over to non-MS solutions would be the provision of frequent, cheap training courses (complete with dodgy certificates!) Students are generally very adaptable and will take on a range of software and solutions. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] libcrypto, libssl needed for ProFTPd
I'm trying to install ProFTPd from an rpm, but getting failed dependencies: what do I need to do ? # rpm -i proftpd-1.2.9-1.7x.i386.rpm error: failed dependencies: libcrypto.so.1 is needed by proftpd-1.2.9-1.7x libssl.so.1 is needed by proftpd-1.2.9-1.7x # openssl version OpenSSL 0.9.6b [engine] 9 Jul 2001 # yum update openssl Gathering package information from servers Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 base Getting headers from: Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux 7.3 Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 updates Finding updated packages Downloading needed headers No Packages Available for Update No actions to take -- Voytek -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] libcrypto, libssl needed for ProFTPd
Voytek wrote: I'm trying to install ProFTPd from an rpm, but getting failed dependencies: what do I need to do ? # rpm -i proftpd-1.2.9-1.7x.i386.rpm error: failed dependencies: libcrypto.so.1 is needed by proftpd-1.2.9-1.7x libssl.so.1 is needed by proftpd-1.2.9-1.7x # openssl version OpenSSL 0.9.6b [engine] 9 Jul 2001 Do the ff: #rpm -ql --whatprovides openssl | grep libcryto.so.1 #rpm -ql --whatprovides openssl | grep libssl.so.1 ##this will tell if you have libcrypto.so.1 and libssl.so.1 ## and what directory path they reside Edit your /etc/ld.so.conf and insert the the directory path excluding the filename. Then, run, ldconfig and re-run rpm installations. # yum update openssl Gathering package information from servers Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 base Getting headers from: Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux 7.3 Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 updates Finding updated packages Downloading needed headers No Packages Available for Update No actions to take -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] libcrypto, libssl needed for ProFTPd
Quoting Voytek [EMAIL PROTECTED]: quote who=O Plameras Edit your /etc/ld.so.conf and insert the the directory path excluding the filename. RPM doesn't inspect ld.so.conf in walking dependencies. This will have no effect on the installation. (hhhm, perhaps Eric was right telling me to give it up...?) I'm inclined to agree that 7.3 is a little old to be expecting updates on. Perhaps you can tell us about the system and we can help you get it upgraded? What do you use this box for? I'm curious though, why are you asking yum to install dependencies you've manually specified and not asking it to install proftpd and fetch all of its dependencies for you? yum install proftpd seems easier. What was the source of your proftpd rpm anyway? At any rate, this package: http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/776260/com/openssl096-0.9.6-23.7.i386.rpm.html claims to provide the files you're after. It might be a solution to your imediate problem. I generally search on rpm.pbone.net for the filename when these dependency questions come up. They have quite an extensive index. HTH, James. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Using software raid0 on 2 sata disks installing gentoo
Hi everyone... im trying to install gentoo on a software raid0 array across 2 sata disks. the boot partion is just a normal partition though on /dev/sda1. Ive read all the howtos i can find... they all go through the same steps and the install procedure runs through fine however when i get to the end and reboot... it can mount the root partition as /dev/md0 doesnt exist basically. Has anyone done this and got it orking... how did u do it etc.. Thanks Chris Portman -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] libcrypto, libssl needed for ProFTPd
So, what is the mechanism for it to know if there is or not. And if there is, how will the program loader find where to load the libraries required ? James Gregory wrote: Quoting Voytek [EMAIL PROTECTED]: quote who=O Plameras Edit your /etc/ld.so.conf and insert the the directory path excluding the filename. RPM doesn't inspect ld.so.conf in walking dependencies. This will have no effect on the installation. (hhhm, perhaps Eric was right telling me to give it up...?) I'm inclined to agree that 7.3 is a little old to be expecting updates on. Perhaps you can tell us about the system and we can help you get it upgraded? What do you use this box for? I'm curious though, why are you asking yum to install dependencies you've manually specified and not asking it to install proftpd and fetch all of its dependencies for you? yum install proftpd seems easier. What was the source of your proftpd rpm anyway? At any rate, this package: http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/776260/com/openssl096-0.9.6-23.7.i386.rpm.html claims to provide the files you're after. It might be a solution to your imediate problem. I generally search on rpm.pbone.net for the filename when these dependency questions come up. They have quite an extensive index. HTH, James. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] libcrypto, libssl needed for ProFTPd
quote who=James Gregory Quoting Voytek [EMAIL PROTECTED]: quote who=O Plameras Edit your /etc/ld.so.conf and insert the the directory path excluding the filename. RPM doesn't inspect ld.so.conf in walking dependencies. This will have no effect on the installation. (hhhm, perhaps Eric was right telling me to give it up...?) I'm inclined to agree that 7.3 is a little old to be expecting updates on. Perhaps you can tell us about the system and we can help you get it upgraded? What do you use this box for? James, thanks. apache/php/mysql/mail on P2 320MB I'm curious though, why are you asking yum to install dependencies you've manually specified and not asking it to install proftpd and fetch all of its dependencies for you? yum install proftpd seems easier. it sure is easier, (and, quicker too) but: # yum install proftpd Cannot find a package matching proftpd I guess I'd need point yum elsewhere than fedora site ?? What was the source of your proftpd rpm anyway? latest 7x rpm build from proftpd server ftp://ftp.proftpd.org/distrib/packages/RPMS/old/proftpd-1.2.9-1.7x.i386.rpm -- Voytek -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] libcrypto, libssl needed for ProFTPd
Quoting O Plameras [EMAIL PROTECTED]: So, what is the mechanism for it to know if there is or not. RPM keeps a database that records what files are provided by each package. Along with that information are details such as MD5s of the files, permissions, modification dates etc. If a package has a file dependency, RPM will not check whether or not the file exists on the filesystem, it will check to see if it has been provided by a package in its database. If the database says that it exists, it is assumed to exist even if that is not actually the case (and if it is not the case, something is wrong with your computer). My recollection is that this was not always the case, but it has been at least for the 4.x versions of RPM. It is for this reason that building a library and installing it yourself will not satisfy a library dependency for an RPM; even though if you forced the installation you could coerce it to work. I got caught on this concept for quite a while before I appreciated all the magical things that package management does for me. In short: file dependencies are evaluated exactly as per package dependencies. And if there is, how will the program loader find where to load the libraries required ? Ahh. That's a separate question. Happily, there are some standards regarding the structure of RPMs that make these kind of problems straightforward. There's a few directories where (properly built) RPMs will install .sos and those directories are known about by the loader. /usr/lib and /lib are amongst those directories. As part of the post-installation scripts triggered by any properly built library RPM, ldconfig will be executed to update ld.so.cache accordingly. Hope that clears things up, James. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] libcrypto, libssl needed for ProFTPd
Quoting Voytek [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Perhaps you can tell us about the system and we can help you get it upgraded? What do you use this box for? James, thanks. apache/php/mysql/mail on P2 320MB Hrmm. The PHP element there makes that sound like a mildly difficult upgrade. Which MTA are you using? Getting apt setup as below is probably a good first step. I'm curious though, why are you asking yum to install dependencies you've manually specified and not asking it to install proftpd and fetch all of its dependencies for you? yum install proftpd seems easier. it sure is easier, (and, quicker too) but: # yum install proftpd Cannot find a package matching proftpd I guess I'd need point yum elsewhere than fedora site ?? Yep, I'd say so. freshrpms has packages for proftpd: http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/redhat/7.3/proftpd/ I'm not sure if freshrpms supports yum, but they definitely support apt-rpm. I might be being optimistic, but I think if you install this package: http://ftp.freshrpms.net/pub/freshrpms/redhat/7.3/apt/apt-0.5.5cnc5-fr0.rh73.2.i386.rpm and potentially edit /etc/apt/sources.list to point to their packages for redhat 7.3, you should be able to do this: apt-get update apt-get install proftpd to do what you want. I'm unfortunately not near an RPM based box atm, so I can't check precisely what the apt package I've referred to does. The only variable is editing /etc/apt/sources.list. Give it a go and post back if you have any issues. HTH, James. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] mono on debian
hi, does anyone know if there is a deb-repository that contains packages for mono? i have tried some of the repositories listed in apt-get.org, but there is always a problem with some depencies (eg gtk-sharp is missing, missing reference to /usr/share/dotnet/monodoc/browser.exe, ...). and http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/ contains only packages for unstable (i am currently running testing). any ideas where to find packages for debian? thanks, gottfried -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] libcrypto, libssl needed for ProFTPd
On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 09:23:48PM +1000, Voytek wrote: I'm trying to install ProFTPd from an rpm, but getting failed dependencies: what do I need to do ? # rpm -i proftpd-1.2.9-1.7x.i386.rpm error: failed dependencies: libcrypto.so.1 is needed by proftpd-1.2.9-1.7x libssl.so.1 is needed by proftpd-1.2.9-1.7x # openssl version OpenSSL 0.9.6b [engine] 9 Jul 2001 I notice there's openssl095a-0.9.5a-11.i386.rpm in the package list, you might have to install this one to get the older versions of the libraries. If this works then that's probably the best answer. Don't uninstall your current version, they should both be able to be installed at the same time. Sometimes with these library version problems, symlinks can work: ln -s /lib/libcrypto.so.0.9.6b /lib/libcrypto.so.1 ln -s /lib/libssl.so.0.9.6b /lib/libssl.so.1 If that does seem to work then I would suggest you do a bit of testing because there might be some trivial incompatibility that causes it to crash. Then again, you probably just want to do regular ftp which is never going to use the details of the ssl system anyhow. # yum update openssl Gathering package information from servers Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 base Getting headers from: Fedora Legacy utilities for Red Hat Linux 7.3 Getting headers from: Red Hat Linux 7.3 updates Finding updated packages Downloading needed headers No Packages Available for Update If droids could think, none of us would be here. Probably misquoted... - Tel ( http://bespoke.homelinux.net/ ) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] libcrypto, libssl needed for ProFTPd
Ah hah. The procedure is: 1. rpm -ql --whatprovides | grep libcrypto.so.1 etc. 2. If #1 is TRUE, then fixed /etc/ld.so.conf If you think about it,#2 will never ever be done if #1 procedure is not TRUE. This is not a 'must be done' but sys-admin 'good practice' policy. In other words, the procedure does NOT say '/etc/ld.so.conf' is being examined by 'rpm' to find the library, as you think it does. Rather, it is 'rpm' itself that finds the dependency, that's why #1 procedure is there as first and foremost. #2 procedure is there to always ensure that when the program is executed, the program library loader will always be provided with the 'correct' information to enable it to load the library. There are 'rpm' that are not well-behave in the sense that default library locations(/lib;/usr/lib;/usr/local/lib) are not always used for libraries, as 'rpm' relies on the packager's abilities to cover all alternatives and for it to behave accordingly. The intelligence of 'rpm' depends on the packager. The 'rpm' can't read what one wants, so to speak. The packager has to expressly tell 'rpm' what's 'good practice'. So, it is a matter of sys-admin 'good practice' to always confirm these things, so no one gets bug down chasing the 'rainbow', as you have been in that situation previously. I hope this has clarified the mis-interpretations. O Plameras wrote: So, what is the mechanism for it to know if there is or not. And if there is, how will the program loader find where to load the libraries required ? James Gregory wrote: Quoting Voytek [EMAIL PROTECTED]: quote who=O Plameras Edit your /etc/ld.so.conf and insert the the directory path excluding the filename. RPM doesn't inspect ld.so.conf in walking dependencies. This will have no effect on the installation. (hhhm, perhaps Eric was right telling me to give it up...?) I'm inclined to agree that 7.3 is a little old to be expecting updates on. Perhaps you can tell us about the system and we can help you get it upgraded? What do you use this box for? I'm curious though, why are you asking yum to install dependencies you've manually specified and not asking it to install proftpd and fetch all of its dependencies for you? yum install proftpd seems easier. What was the source of your proftpd rpm anyway? At any rate, this package: http://rpm.pbone.net/index.php3/stat/4/idpl/776260/com/openssl096-0.9.6-23.7.i386.rpm.html claims to provide the files you're after. It might be a solution to your imediate problem. I generally search on rpm.pbone.net for the filename when these dependency questions come up. They have quite an extensive index. HTH, James. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] libcrypto, libssl needed for ProFTPd
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 08:20:58AM +1000, O Plameras wrote: Ah hah. The procedure is: 1. rpm -ql --whatprovides | grep libcrypto.so.1 etc. 2. If #1 is TRUE, then fixed /etc/ld.so.conf But if your system is missing the critical package you won't get an answer. It only works if you have access to a system with all the right packages installed. For a guy running 7.3 where everyone else is 4 or 5 versions ahead that can be kind of difficult. RedHat dependencies are easy to use when you have a reference machine with the lot that has been installed with the everything option ticked. This machine will always help you figure out your dependencies then you can run your actual production machines with just what they need. Mind you, these days hard drives are so big, running machines ultra-lean is pretty much a waste of time. - Tel ( http://bespoke.homelinux.net/ ) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Using software raid0 on 2 sata disks installing gentoo
On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 11:01:55PM +1000, Chris Portman wrote: Hi everyone... im trying to install gentoo on a software raid0 array across 2 sata disks. the boot partion is just a normal partition though on /dev/sda1. Ive read all the howtos i can find... they all go through the same steps and the install procedure runs through fine however when i get to the end and reboot... it can mount the root partition as /dev/md0 doesnt exist basically. I don't know what gentoo does but on RedHat there is a magic ramdisc file called /boot/initrd that loads with the kernel and then goes about constructing the /dev/md0 device. It uses some tricky scripting and goes and looks at the partition names and stuff like that. Presuming gentoo works the same way then checking the initrd files is probably a place to start. Could be that you have an initrd that is suitable for SCSI but not for SATA (the ramdisc actually contains kernel modules and installs just the ones that are needed for your system, evil huh). - Tel ( http://bespoke.homelinux.net/ ) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo
Simon wrote: SNIP This is on the Select Agreement, these are non-upgradeable licences, if you have MS Office 2000 and want to go to 2003 then buy all the licences again. And this is where FOSS has the advantage - the individual cost of MS is not necessarily excessive for Schools - but the ongoing costs can be. Once purse-string holders realise that there is support for the FOSS software, then barriers are removed. Which means another suggestion might be making people aware that there is support for the FOSS applications available. bursars/business managers/principals are less hassled by staff. I've never met a bunch of people more unwilling to learn something different than teachers. Amen!! If students were as recalcitrant as teachers they would all be on detention every day for failure to even try! Wouldn't students love that! :) - there is a lot of scope of FOSS in libraries, but again there is the idea that free cannot be quality - educational software being available for Linux is a problem, so perhaps a push for FOSS that runs on Windows/MAC as well. It needs to be targeted obviously - eg a DT teacher would want to know what FOSS CAD and design applications there are. I've had some success with this sort of thing - eventually the only thing keeping them on Windows is Office. I find it is not Office but the range of other educational software, where the market is too small for authors to do more than a Windows version. This is probably the single major problem stopping a mass migration to linux desktops. I have put teachers into OO and not told them - just said it was a new version of Word - they were quite happy! I've had mixed results with OOo, but nothing insurmountable with training sessions as you mention below. That is the hardest to convert. Yes, there is OpenOffice and so on, but as I said before teachers really HATE learning new stuff that is not directly in their sphere - they just want to get down to teaching, and learning a new office package is just a nuisance. Perhaps a flyer with some web sites that list available FOSS software or FOSS related sites even? Teachers have an education mentality, students can't learn unless they teach them, therefore they can't do anything new unless someone runs a course in it. The biggest push I believe to move teachers over to non-MS solutions would be the provision of frequent, cheap training courses (complete with dodgy certificates!) I'd never thought of the dodgy certificates - what a great idea. Students are generally very adaptable and will take on a range of software and solutions. When it boils down to it, students will use whatever the school has. They don't have a lot of say if the staff are behind what is in use. In any case, as you say, students are far more adaptable than staff (generally of course). Fil -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Linux looks to ############# for exposure
Terry Collins wrote: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/03/31/862521987.html So, was it just these two lame April Fools Day jokes this year, or did anyone find another one and not share it. P.S. to those who messaged, I do realise that it was White Rabbits day. And my that be the only message to juxtapose my name with erk!. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
RE: [SLUG] Virtual hosting with VMWare
IIRC, GSX is Linux with custom kernel modules but ESX is it's own kernel. I think it was based on FreeBSD way back when they founded VMWare.. no idea if they pull things from the FreeBSD of today. GSX can run on Windows 2K+ or Linux AFAIK. ESX runs a cutdown version of what appears to be Redhat 7.x Also, GSX seems to run on almost any hardware while ESX was VERY picky about what it ran on - it only runs on SCSI disks BTW... I have installed and used both ESX GSX and they are VERY impressive products. I was told by the VMWARE rep that a VMWARE virtual machine could be moved on-the-fly across a SAN without shutting it down! Haven't tested this yet though! Daron # This e-mail, including all attachments, may be confidential or privileged. Confidentiality or privilege is not waived or lost because this e-mail has been sent to you in error. If you are not the intended recipient any use, disclosure or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. If you have received it in error please notify the sender immediately by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of this e-mail and any attachments. All liability for direct and indirect loss arising from this e-mail and any attachments is hereby disclaimed to the extent permitted by law. # -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Ubuntu launches into command line only
linley caetan wrote: running Ubuntu warty in i386 after some recent updates using apt (for alsa related items) Ubuntu reboots in CLI mode , no graphic login screen. Launching X from CLI gives a grey screen with X cursor and nothing else. There is no way to proceed except restarting the machine. This is precisely the problem I had when I tried to upfrade from warty to hoary. My only solution was to do another apt-get dist-upgrade with warty back in the sources list. Fixed my problem I guess but I guess Ubuntu is still a bit beta. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: Re: [SLUG] what is 's' in 'ls'
Hello,
Eric said:
what is 's' in 'ls' listing, socket ?
srwx--1 root nobody 0 Oct 10 2003 .fam_socket
I think its a unix domain socket.
Yes it is; You can compile and run the simple
following program:
#include sys/un.h
#include sys/socket.h
#include sys/types.h
int main()
{
unsigned int s,s2;
struct sockaddr_un local,remote;
int len;
s = socket(AF_UNIX,SOCK_STREAM,0);
local.sun_family = AF_UNIX;
strcpy(local.sun_path,/tmp/rrSsocket);
len = strlen(local.sun_path) + sizeof(local.sun_family);
bind(s,(struct sockaddr*)local,len);
getchar();
}
and you can see that ls -al /tmp/rrSsocket shows the s bit.
how can I identify what belongs to these above ?
The program lsof is pretty useful
You can use fuser .fam_socket (It is probably more efficient since lsof read
all /proc
unless you know the pid of the process which created that file).
Regards,
Rami Rosen
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[SLUG] Connecting to an L2TP/IPSEC windows vpn server
Hi all, Does anyone have any solutions for connecting to an L2TP/IPSEC windows VPN server? I cant seem to find a great deal on google. And if I solve that, any terminal services clients that will also work with windows terminal services server? Thanks Chris Portman -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Connecting to an L2TP/IPSEC windows vpn server
Chris Portman wrote: Hi all, Does anyone have any solutions for connecting to an L2TP/IPSEC windows VPN server? I cant seem to find a great deal on google. And if I solve that, any terminal services clients that will also work with windows terminal services server? Not sure on the VPN side but rdesktop is what you are looking for I think terminal services wise (maybe that's just for NT??) www.rdesktop.org Fil -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo
Phil Scarratt wrote:
In any case, as you say, students are far more adaptable than staff
(generally of course).
In support of staff (experiences relate to NSW Dept Ed);
1) staff are now required to do more administrative work, hence less
time and energy to try out something.
2) whomever is the teacher supporting the computers in the school
doesn't get paid for it and rarely gets release time to deal with them.
3) It is ALL (compulsory MS tax out of their school budget) or MAC's.
4) The MS Tax is charged on EVERY computer in the school, hence there is
no money saving incentive to replace MS with FOSS/Linux.
5) Decisions are made by shiny arse public servants, not teachers at the
coal face.
6) There is a minor industry in people who make some money selling
software to teachers and this is written on MS junk and they fud up
at the slightest breeze
7) The company holding the support contract is not FOSS supportive.
As my wife was a teacher in the NSW Dept of Ed, I've looked at helping
introduce FOSS into schools a number of times. Each time I have decided
that I have far better things to do.
As far as educational software goes, it really is mickey mouse. None of
it does exactly what is (currently) seen as educationally best, but it
helps relieve teachers stress {:-). If you want to write classroom
software, you really need someone who can tell you exactly what they
need. Be prepared for a number of rewrites.
And as far as I am aware, the greatest use of computers in the primary
classrooms is for publishing, i.e. word processing and phamplets.
Someone who wants to dabble in this area with FOSS might consider making
a Live CD, especialy for simulations, demos, etc.
speaking of certificates and going back to something that was floated,
but died before.
If you want to offer certificates, consider setting up a Registered
Training Organisation. Then you can offer Cert I, Cert II, etc course,
but you do need Cert IV qualified trainers.
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Re: [SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo
Terry Collins wrote:
Phil Scarratt wrote:
In any case, as you say, students are far more adaptable than staff
(generally of course).
In support of staff (experiences relate to NSW Dept Ed);
I guess most of my experience is with private schools, with limited public.
1) staff are now required to do more administrative work, hence less
time and energy to try out something.
It's the same across the board. I wasn't trying to be overly harsh on
teachers. As I've said before, they just want it to work with minimal
fuss and effort on their part - mostly cause they don't have the time to
do otherwise. Having said that, I still think teachers _on the whole_
are somewhat recalcitrant when it comes to learning new things in their
workplace. But this can be overcome with appropriate approach and
allowing them time with in-service training.
2) whomever is the teacher supporting the computers in the school
doesn't get paid for it and rarely gets release time to deal with them.
This is something I think needs to change. Whilst it is true, with the
level of computers in schools these days and considering where it is
headed as well as the curriculum changing to more computer usage (there
is hardly a subject in which the curriculum does not use the computers
in one way shape or form), expecting a teacher to maintain computers is
ridiculous. But that's getting somewhat OT.
Except for one thing: the current curriculum (computer subjects - not
sure about others) is very MS oriented. Certainly some of the VET
courses are as are a lot of resources available from the Dep Ed. I heard
rumours that the Dept Ed was addressing that but I have no basis for that.
3) It is ALL (compulsory MS tax out of their school budget) or MAC's.
4) The MS Tax is charged on EVERY computer in the school, hence there is
no money saving incentive to replace MS with FOSS/Linux.
Ahh...now that's interesting. Certainly removes the money incentive.
As far as educational software goes, it really is mickey mouse. None of
it does exactly what is (currently) seen as educationally best, but it
helps relieve teachers stress {:-). If you want to write classroom
software, you really need someone who can tell you exactly what they
need. Be prepared for a number of rewrites.
However, that doesn't remove the need for this same mickey mouse to
exist for Linux. Or maybe it's a matter of generating top quality stuff
for Linux, but I think when it boils down to it, the people who are
making this stuff need to be pushed to create cross-platform versions. A
lot of stuff is flash based these days anyway. It's just their package
that can't run on anything but windows.
And as far as I am aware, the greatest use of computers in the primary
classrooms is for publishing, i.e. word processing and phamplets.
Someone who wants to dabble in this area with FOSS might consider making
a Live CD, especialy for simulations, demos, etc.
I've thought before a Live CD is a great way to demonstrate or allow
people to dabble. But ultimately in my experience it's the educational
software and unwillingness to learn (although this can be dealt with
relatively easily) that stops FOSS.
Fil
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Re: [SLUG] Re: Re: run levels in debian/ubuntu
On Apr 8, 2005 6:06 PM, Geoff Reidy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matthew Palmer wrote: For what it's worth... the program ntsysv provides an interactive text mode interface which might be a bit easier to work with than renaming links. It's standard on RedHat... I'd be stunned if it wasn't widely available on just about every other distribution too. Nothing about ntsysv in the package cache; but apt-cache search sysv init conf gives: ksysv - KDE SysV-style init configuration editor runit-run - a UNIX init scheme with service supervision sysv-rc-conf - SysV init runlevel configuration tool for the terminal sysvconfig - A text menu based utility for configuring init script links I would say all of those bar the second one would fit the bill. I'm astounded that the GNOME version (there will *surely* be one) didn't come up... The only hard bit is remembering the name ntsysv which certainly doesn't provide any mnemonic in my frame of reference for that program that renames the symlinks for you. No less easy-to-remember than 'mv' for the same operation. grin Maybe debian has the same feature under a different name (that wouldn't surprise me in the least). In grand Debian style, we appear to have a plethora of them. - Matt You missed rcconf :) Seems to do the right thing with the sym links. Geoff -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html Thanks all for the suggestions. I think it may be a bug as I changed all the S's to K's via the remove and stop directives to update-rc.d. Guess that's what you expect when playing with SID. Update -- It seems to work now. For those who want to use it # update-rc.d -f remove blah # update-rc.d blah stop NN 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 . -- James -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 09:53:56AM +1000, Terry Collins wrote: 4) The MS Tax is charged on EVERY computer in the school, hence there is no money saving incentive to replace MS with FOSS/Linux. I thought that was illegal... ...how do they attempt to enforce this? As my wife was a teacher in the NSW Dept of Ed, I've looked at helping introduce FOSS into schools a number of times. Each time I have decided that I have far better things to do. To be honest I found the same thing with UTS Engineering, and you would think they are in a better position to understand these things but their interest in taking risks is about zero. Someone who wants to dabble in this area with FOSS might consider making a Live CD, especialy for simulations, demos, etc. Or possibly start an online service for teachers since one thing that schools are doing right is providing lots of Internet access. Then you can use Linux under the hood and maybe encourage them to download a bit of open-source on the side, gradually get them into open office and gimp. Maybe get them interested in buying a server with the same online services for their internal use which will run faster (less users and over ethernet LAN). I'd be game to get involved in that one if someone wants to collaborate. If you want to offer certificates, consider setting up a Registered Training Organisation. Then you can offer Cert I, Cert II, etc course, but you do need Cert IV qualified trainers. You got any links to explanation of how this process works? How does the first Cert IV get created in a new subject? - Tel ( http://bespoke.homelinux.net/ ) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 09:53:56AM +1000, Terry Collins wrote: 4) The MS Tax is charged on EVERY computer in the school, hence there is no money saving incentive to replace MS with FOSS/Linux. I thought that was illegal... ..how do they attempt to enforce this? I'm only guessing, but it's most likely a contract between MS and NSW Dept Ed, the cost of which the Dept is passing on to schools by number of computers in the school to make it fair. Or possibly start an online service for teachers since one thing that schools are doing right is providing lots of Internet access. Then you can use Linux under the hood and maybe encourage them to download a bit of open-source on the side, gradually get them into open office and gimp. Maybe get them interested in buying a server with the same online services for their internal use which will run faster (less users and over ethernet LAN). This sort of thing is done, but with people out their in the schools pushing it, suggesting this or that piece of software first. If it satisfies your needs and you don't have to pay then great. I've had some success with that in high schools. Primary is different as that is where the educational type stuff comes into it. Fil -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 09:53:56AM +1000, Terry Collins wrote:
4) The MS Tax is charged on EVERY computer in the school, hence there is
no money saving incentive to replace MS with FOSS/Linux.
I thought that was illegal...
...how do they attempt to enforce this?
It was either a flat or stepped fee based on the number of computers
they knew that your school had. NSW Public schools basically get all
their hardware through the department.
So there was no incentive for say by replacing MS with FOSS on X
computers I can save $Y.
As my wife was a teacher in the NSW Dept of Ed, I've looked at helping
introduce FOSS into schools a number of times. Each time I have decided
that I have far better things to do.
To be honest I found the same thing with UTS Engineering,
and you would think they are in a better position to understand
these things but their interest in taking risks is about zero.
Aaah, UTS Engineering. A wonderful place, where scoring in an academic
bun fight is more important that providing student education. I also
remember the Introductory C class where everyone who handed in a copy of
last years lab experiment passed, but those who pointed out that it was
impossible to actually run the programm on the computers were failed.
Something about adding a network card with conflicting interrupts.
Someone who wants to dabble in this area with FOSS might consider making
a Live CD, especialy for simulations, demos, etc.
Or possibly start an online service for teachers since one thing
that schools are doing right is providing lots of Internet access.
Then you can use Linux under the hood and maybe encourage them to
download a bit of open-source on the side, gradually get them into
open office and gimp. Maybe get them interested in buying a server
with the same online services for their internal use which will
run faster (less users and over ethernet LAN).
I'd be game to get involved in that one if someone wants to collaborate.
If you want to offer certificates, consider setting up a Registered
Training Organisation. Then you can offer Cert I, Cert II, etc course,
but you do need Cert IV qualified trainers.
You got any links to explanation of how this process works?
How does the first Cert IV get created in a new subject?
- Tel ( http://bespoke.homelinux.net/ )
--
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http://www.woa.com.au
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Publishing
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Re: [SLUG] Connecting to an L2TP/IPSEC windows vpn server
On Fri, 2005-04-08 at 17:35 +1000, Chris Portman wrote: Does anyone have any solutions for connecting to an L2TP/IPSEC windows VPN server? I cant seem to find a great deal on google. For the IPSEC side of things, your best bet is openswan (http://www.openswan.org/). For l2tp, you need l2tpd, which theoretically lives at http://www.l2tpd.org/ , but it appears to be down at the moment. It should already be packaged for your distribution though. The one time I set up an IPSEC/L2TP solution I found http://www.jacco2.dds.nl/networking/freeswan-l2tp.html to be a great reference. http://www.funknet.org/doc/tunnel/l2tp.xml is pretty good as well. Both links talk about setting up the Linux machine as a server accepting incoming client connections. But hopefully it's a start. And if I solve that, any terminal services clients that will also work with windows terminal services server? As mentioned, rdesktop. -- Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Connecting to an L2TP/IPSEC windows vpn server
On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 05:35:50PM +1000, Chris Portman wrote: Does anyone have any solutions for connecting to an L2TP/IPSEC windows VPN Blergh, Microsoft and their myriad useless VPN systems. If L2TP is also known as PPTP (I can't remember if they are or not), then you need a PPTP client -- there's one in Debian called pptp-linux. You'll also need a relatively new pppd and a kernel patched to support MPPE in the ppp driver. It looks like it isn't, though, since there's also an l2tpd package. For IPSec, it should be enough to use a recent KAME or OpenSWAN. I haven't done it Linux client - MS server, but I have done MS client - Linux server. server? I cant seem to find a great deal on google. And if I solve that, any terminal services clients that will also work with windows terminal services server? As others have mentioned, rdesktop is your friend here. It'll do TS to anything you throw at it. - Matt signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:21:15 +1000
Terry Collins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
SNIP
Aaah, UTS Engineering. A wonderful place, where scoring in an
academic
bun fight is more important that providing student education. I also
remember the Introductory C class where everyone who handed in a copy
of last years lab experiment passed, but those who pointed out that
it was impossible to actually run the programm on the computers were
failed. Something about adding a network card with conflicting
interrupts.
You guys should try working in a Law Faculty!
Someone who wants to dabble in this area with FOSS might consider
making a Live CD, especialy for simulations, demos, etc.
Or possibly start an online service for teachers since one thing
that schools are doing right is providing lots of Internet access.
Then you can use Linux under the hood and maybe encourage them to
download a bit of open-source on the side, gradually get them into
open office and gimp. Maybe get them interested in buying a server
with the same online services for their internal use which will
run faster (less users and over ethernet LAN).
I'd be game to get involved in that one if someone wants to
collaborate.
If you want to offer certificates, consider setting up a
Registered Training Organisation. Then you can offer Cert I, Cert
II, etc course, but you do need Cert IV qualified trainers.
You got any links to explanation of how this process works?
How does the first Cert IV get created in a new subject?
- Tel ( http://bespoke.homelinux.net/ )
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} email: terryc at woa.com.au www:
http://www.woa.com.au
Wombat Outdoor Adventures Bicycles, Computers, GIS, Printing,
Publishing
People without trees are like fish without clean water
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Mobile: +61 405 084 990
Fax: +61 2 4782 7092
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[SLUG] PHP load error
We were having some errors in execution of a cron-initiated php script. We ran it from the console, and got some errors. We then tried running php without passing it any options or script names, and got the same error (below): --- Content-type: text/html ΒΌ': Unable to initialize module Module compiled with debug=144, thread-safety=167 module API=1114968780 PHP compiled with debug=0, thread-safety=0 module API=20010901 These options need to match in Unknown on line 0 --- We tried re-installing php, but no change. Can anyone shed any light on this? Regards, Edwin Humphries Mobile: 0419 233 051 Ironstone Technology Pty Ltd P. O. Box 423, Kiama, NSW, 2533 Phone: +61 (0)2 4233 2285 Facsimile: +61 (0)2 4233 2299 Web: http//www.ironstone.com.au *** This email is intended for the named addressee/s only and may contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not a named addressee please delete the message and notify the sender. *** -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Exhibitors at Education Expo
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you want to offer certificates, consider setting up a Registered
Training Organisation. Then you can offer Cert I, Cert II, etc course,
but you do need Cert IV qualified trainers.
You got any links to explanation of how this process works?
How does the first Cert IV get created in a new subject?
AFAIUI under the new national training/qualification format basically
any registered training organisation can provide certificates.
These certificates have to be training in certain skills as laid down
in the standards.
The courses need to be delivered by a qualified trainer, which is
basically you need a Certificate IV in Assessment and Workplace
Training, no matter what your other qualifications/industry experience.
It is just a piece of paper in Adult training as opposed to schools
So, if you can set up an RTO and have CIV trainers, then your
certificates are as good as anyone elses.
I think the bug bear is the RTO steps. Of course, in involves a hefty
insurance package as well.
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http://www.woa.com.au
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Publishing
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