Re: [SLUG] Dapper Drake
On Thursday 06 July 2006 15:41, John Gibbons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I suggest you go back to the earlier version of Ubuntu where it all
works like a charm. It works with the previous Kubuntu as well. I am
only a desktop user and definitely not technically sophisticated. But I
have been installing the regular upgrades of most of the popular distros
and have come to the conclusion it is a waste of time chasing them and
the associated headaches of getting them do what you want.. So now I
have settled for being a version behind but running all the stuff I like
including the libdvdcss dependent. If there is a sudden leap forward by
a distro that I feel I can't live without I may again be sucked into the
continuing upgrade game. But, in the meantime everything works nicely.
It works very well with Dapper for me. Considering the extra effort that has
gone into Dapper when compared to Breezy (the previous version), it's
generally safe to say that you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you don't
use Dapper. That applies to both quality assurance and functionality.
EasyUbuntu allows you to quickly and easily install so-called 'restricted'
packages just by ticking a few boxes. There's no need for fancy commands or
searching through thousands of packages in Synaptic/Adept.
--
Sridhar Dhanapalan [Yama | http://www.pclinuxonline.com/]
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It is easy to be blinded to the essential uselessness of computers by the
sense of accomplishment you get from getting them to work at all.
- Douglas Adams
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Re: [SLUG] Dapper Drake
Sridhar, Is EasyUbuntu installed on top of Dapper or is it a separate distro? John. Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On Thursday 06 July 2006 15:41, John Gibbons [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I suggest you go back to the earlier version of Ubuntu where it all works like a charm. It works with the previous Kubuntu as well. I am only a desktop user and definitely not technically sophisticated. But I have been installing the regular upgrades of most of the popular distros and have come to the conclusion it is a waste of time chasing them and the associated headaches of getting them do what you want.. So now I have settled for being a version behind but running all the stuff I like including the libdvdcss dependent. If there is a sudden leap forward by a distro that I feel I can't live without I may again be sucked into the continuing upgrade game. But, in the meantime everything works nicely. It works very well with Dapper for me. Considering the extra effort that has gone into Dapper when compared to Breezy (the previous version), it's generally safe to say that you'd be doing yourself a disservice if you don't use Dapper. That applies to both quality assurance and functionality. EasyUbuntu allows you to quickly and easily install so-called 'restricted' packages just by ticking a few boxes. There's no need for fancy commands or searching through thousands of packages in Synaptic/Adept. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Dapper Drake
John Gibbons wrote: Sridhar, Is EasyUbuntu installed on top of Dapper or is it a separate distro? and once more for the list... On top of -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Dapper Drake
On Thursday 06 July 2006 20:19, John Gibbons [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Sridhar,
Is EasyUbuntu installed on top of Dapper or is it a separate distro?
It's all explained at http://easyubuntu.freecontrib.org/
Basically, it's a small Python app that presents a simple interface to allow
you to install things like drivers, codecs, Java and so on. I strongly
suggest that you give it a go.
--
Sridhar Dhanapalan [Yama | http://www.pclinuxonline.com/]
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You never sent me a response on the question of what things an app would do
that would make it run with MSDOS and not run DR-DOS. Is there any version
check or api they fail to have? Is there [a] feature they have that might get
in our way? I am not looking for something they cant get around. I am
looking for something their current binary fails on.
- Bill Gates, 1988-09-22
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Re: [SLUG] shared internet folders
For the people who recieved my OpenAFS script there is a query from one recipient, regarding the following: CELLNAME=example.com.ex OpenAFS use 'CELLS' to refer to a group. This is a grouping of workstations or computers that receive data storage service from a common central entity. This is like a 'DOMAIN' in kerberos or LDAP. In my script I called my CELL example.com.ex. MACHINE=otr.example.com.ex otr.example.com.ex is the hostname of the my OpenAFS server where my OpenAFS server lives. You can have more than one server to host your OpenAFS server. I used only one in my script to simplify the illustrations. PARTA=/vicepa This is the first partition that is used for housing OpenAFS files. Second, third, etc partitions are optional. You can have up to 255 partitions in a single server. The names are as specified, the first being /vicepa, the second /vicepb, ..,/vicepz, /vicepaa, /vicepab, etc. You can have any number of Servers, a minimum of two and up to no limit depending upon the geographic and number distributions of your workstations and computers. For example, not withstanding workstations numbers you may need to have Servers in Asia, Continental U.S., Europe, Middle East, etc when you have workstations located in these places, bearing in mind that all these servers are constantly communicating real time. It is highly recommended, that your hostnames (otr.example.com.ex in my script) are entries in your domain name server unless you're dealing with a localised setup. Thanks for your interest in my script. O Plameras -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Dapper Drake
John Gibbons [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have been installing the regular upgrades of most of the popular distros and have come to the conclusion it is a waste of time chasing them and the associated headaches of getting them do what you want.. So now I have settled for being a version behind but running all the stuff I like including the libdvdcss dependent. If there is a sudden leap forward by a distro that I feel I can't live without I may again be sucked into the continuing upgrade game. But, in the meantime everything works nicely. The disadvantage of staying on old software is you might running a version with well know vulnerabilities. I used to really enjoy tweaking my desktop, and dot files like .bashrc, and etc. But had a change of heart for a number of reasons. I'd jump on to another system and be lost without all my tweaks, and when i needed to upgrade, reinstall or build a new box, it would take me ages to re-tweak, if I could be bothered, and I'd never get it just right. So I would avoid upgrading, and the longer i left it, the bigger hassle it became. I found a distro with sensible defaults, and run it with very little modifications. It took little time to get used to it. I add some codecs which is well documented, so I don't have to remember how I did it last time, and that's about it. Unless I need to configure something for it to work, it stays at the defaults. I can upgrade (i get a little notification icon in my panel that tells me updates are available, click it and it updates my system), reinstall, build a new box, jump on (eg) my mums pc, and be at right home, it feels normal. Plus my system is in the most tested and used configuration. It makes it easier to give and get help, and there should be fewer bugs. If you like a stable platform, ubuntu 6.06 LTS is going to be supported for 3 years on the desktop. Take the pain of an upgrade now, and you'll be sweet for a long time. Or, you could try gentoo. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Ubuntu 6.06 wireless networking
I must be missing something. Work has one key and different essid, at home I have different ones. So I setup two locations, one called home and one called work. If I hibernate at work and start-up the OS when I get home, it never ever recognises my home network. I have to manually configure it using iwconfig. Is there an easy way to do this ? My wireless chip is an Atheros based one. Thanks for any ideas. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Ubuntu 6.06 wireless networking
Phil [EMAIL PROTECTED] uttered the following thing: I must be missing something. Work has one key and different essid, at home I have different ones. So I setup two locations, one called home and one called work. If I hibernate at work and start-up the OS when I get home, it never ever recognises my home network. I have to manually configure it using iwconfig. Is there an easy way to do this ? My wireless chip is an Atheros based one. Sort of magic script-hackery, no. I've got basically the same problem - one office network is configured with WAP on one SSID, with DHCP based addressing, whereas my home network uses WPA2 and a different SSID, with static IP addressing. It'd be nice if Ubuntu could let me configure this and have it go Oh, I see ssid 'office', so I'll configure WEP and DHCP, or go Oh, I see ssid 'home', i'll configure WPA and a static address. Whilst Linux wireless has come quite a long way, mobile connection management still sucks. Static network management in Linux is very good, but mobile has a long way to go. For now, I've still got to set wireless up semi-manually. BB -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Ubuntu 6.06 wireless networking
quote who=Phil I must be missing something. Work has one key and different essid, at home I have different ones. So I setup two locations, one called home and one called work. If I hibernate at work and start-up the OS when I get home, it never ever recognises my home network. I have to manually configure it using iwconfig. Is there an easy way to do this ? My wireless chip is an Atheros based one. The default software isn't clever enough to do this for you. However, with a little help from Network Manager (install network-manager-gnome), you will have a *very* pleasurable network switching experience; both wifi and wired. Unfortunately, NM doesn't work very well with my Atheros wifi, because the drivers are a bit b0rky (if you try to scan, you'll be disassociated from the AP - NM scans regularly, so the combination is cruel and unusual). You may have a better experience if your card requires the madwifi-ng drivers. I absolutely loved NM when I had an ipw2200-based laptop. Plug in the cable and *blam*, wired network. Unplug and *blam*, connected to my home wireless network. Go to the JSBH and *blam*, connected to the pub's wireless network. It's great stuff, *if* everything from your kernel drivers up are good. Linux wifi from the kernel up is a bit sucky at this point, but there is a *lot* of work being done on it. :-) - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2007: Sydney, Australia http://lca2007.linux.org.au/ Spanish Flu, the epidemic that killed 50 million people in 1918/9, was known as French Flu in Spain. - BBC News, 2005 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Ubuntu 6.06 wireless networking
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Phil wrote: I must be missing something. Work has one key and different essid, at home I have different ones. So I setup two locations, one called home and one called work. If I hibernate at work and start-up the OS when I get home, it never ever recognises my home network. I have to manually configure it using iwconfig. Is there an easy way to do this ? My wireless chip is an Atheros based one. Thanks for any ideas. I'll second what Jeff has said. Network Manager works surprisingly well. However if your wifi card can't scan and be connected at the same time (Atheros cards under Linux jump out here), then Network Manager will shoot you in the foot...royally. The Intel ProWireless chipsets are *extremely* well supported under Linux and have become my new favourite wifi card - if you have the ability to switch, I'd highly recommend it :) That said, I never had any success on any of my Linux-based laptops with suspend/hibernate (even my work-supplied, uber-modern HP nc6230). So I hacked my own scripts that set everything up during the boot sequence. Basically, grub would ask me where I was, then append a profile=foo to the kernel call. After this, it was a simple matter of reading /proc/cmdline and seeing which profile was selected. From there the scripts did all the network/proxy/kmail configuration :) My script could also change the profile on the fly but I need to drop out of X and restart a bunch of processes (like samba) before everything worked again. Then it's just a matter of sudo /etc/init.d/kdm start and we're back in action. Other people have had success with a package called whereami which attempts to determine your config based on wifi ESSID's it can see, the presence (or absence) of an ethernet cable, etc. Then does essentially wht my scripts do. I never got whereami working right so I rolled my own. YMMV. Cheers, James -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFErXOuwBHpdJO7b9ERAgfzAKDWhDG28fggU+bxY70rE5rQa7xSSQCgkkkV Gv5rXh/7TPKVI/JHmgGR8EU= =LfI5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Recent Webcam Purchases that work on Linux
Hi Byron, I have a Logitech Quickcam Pro 4000 (thank you Lindsay). You can still buy them. It works very well under FC4 http://www.saillard.org/linux/pwc/ and Kubuntu 5.10 - just search Synaptic for 'logitech' :) The D-Link DSB-C310 is also supposed to work well. Regards, Patrick Byron wrote: Hi all, First time poster, hope to get involved in slug a bit more in the future but I'm in a bit of a bind at the moment. Has anybody recently purchased a webcam that works under linux? I've googled and searched, and I have no problems getting one working, but it's just a matter of actually finding a model that's still for sale. It's for a thesis project, so any help would be VERY much appreciated. Thanks, Byron -- Registered Linux User 368634 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Looking for some Raw DV footage to practice on
Hi all, I realise this is an odd request. I'm looking for some raw dv footage so that I can practice editing etc in Kino. Something like a conference or other innocuous event/footage - natch :) I'd like to get some practice with editing, exporting etc before we get our new vid cam, which sadly won't be for some months. I'm in Belmore and so would be happy to pick-up in the surrounding areas. Otherwise I'm more than happy to send a blank CD/DVD with return postage. Thanks to anyone who's able to help out. Regards, Patrick -- Registered Linux User 368634 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Looking for some Raw DV footage to practice on
On Fri, Jul 07, 2006 at 09:00:29AM +1000, elliott-brennan wrote: I realise this is an odd request. I'm looking for some raw dv footage so that I can practice editing etc in Kino. Something like a conference or other innocuous event/footage - natch :) I'd like to get some practice with editing, exporting etc before we get our new vid cam, which sadly won't be for some months. I'm sure that our illustrious A/V team would be more than happy to ship you a couple of SLUG talks to practice on. Then you can get lots of practice before you volunteer to be a part of the A/V team for LCA 2007. grin - Matt -- And Jesus said unto them, And whom do you say that I am? They replied, You are the eschatological manifestation of the ground of our being, the ontological foundation of the context of our very selfhood revealed. And Jesus replied, What? -- Seen on the 'net -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Looking for some Raw DV footage to practice on
On Friday 07 July 2006 09:00, elliott-brennan allegedly wrote: Hi all, I realise this is an odd request. I'm looking for some raw dv footage so that I can practice editing etc in Kino. Something like a conference or other innocuous event/footage - natch :) You can convert existing video to dv format to fool around with in Kino. ffmpeg -tvstd PAL -i /tmp/my_first_film.avi -target dv /tmp/my_first_film.dv I'm not sure the tvstd option is needed, and there are lots more options you most likely will want to play around with. Cheers, Malcolm V. -- There is no satisfaction in hanging a man who does not object to it. -- G.B. Shaw -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Financial Review crashes Firefox.
On Thu, 2006-07-06 at 15:52 +1000, Matthew Hannigan wrote: On Thu, Jul 06, 2006 at 10:53:58AM +1000, david wrote: Financial Review now has a new membership system which consistently crashes Firefox (Breezy, Firefox 1.08) Has anyone else run into this? Is this one of those crazy windows only disasters? Which url exactly? Do you have any plugins (flash or java)? afr.com afraccess.com I've got both flash (Shockwave Flash 7.0 r25) java (Java(TM) Plug-in 1.5.0_06-b05) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Looking for some Raw DV footage to practice on
Hi Matt, Now THAT would be brilliant! I've not had the chance to do much in the way of contributing back to the LUG and that would be a great opportunity. Regards, Patrick Matthew Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:32:14 +1000 I'm sure that our illustrious A/V team would be more than happy to ship you a couple of SLUG talks to practice on. Then you can get lots of practice before you volunteer to be a part of the A/V team for LCA 2007. grin - Matt -- Registered Linux User 368634 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Looking for some Raw DV footage to practice on
Hi Malcolm, Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try that out. I'm going to have a more in-depth look at Cinelerra too; my limited experience with it has brought me to the conclusion that I really need to RTM more so than with Kino :) Regards, Patrick Malcolm V [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2006 09:37:45 +1000 You can convert existing video to dv format to fool around with in Kino. ffmpeg -tvstd PAL -i /tmp/my_first_film.avi -target dv /tmp/my_first_film.dv I'm not sure the tvstd option is needed, and there are lots more options you most likely will want to play around with. Cheers, Malcolm V. -- -- Registered Linux User 368634 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] gnome-volume-manager not starting on Ubuntu dapper
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Has anybody had any problems with gnome-volume-manager just not starting at all on ubuntu dapper? It was previously working for me on breezy, but since I upgraded, it no longer works. I attempted to start it from a shell, but it silently dies, so I miss out on automounting on usb devices, etc. I did a complete removal and re-install of the gnome-volume-manager and associated packages but so far it hasn't made any difference. - -- dave. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFErcc+hPPdWeHRgaoRAiPbAJ9H/G89suWlLotpGRxRTCQCwKTMqwCeMbgp 9Whlb/XLx15TnezP0AHKFTI= =hTL8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Financial Review crashes Firefox.
I've got Firefox 1.5.0.4 running on Kubuntu 6.06 without Flash but with Java (0.24Ubuntu2). Website www.afr.com loads fine for me Bill -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] rync problem
* On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 05:38:19PM +1000, Matthew Hannigan wrote: On Tue, Jul 04, 2006 at 05:23:38PM +1000, Sonia Hamilton wrote: I'm rsyncing some files from a linux server down to a FAT partition on my laptop (FAT because I want to access the files from both Linux and Windoze). Unfortunately rsync thinks some of the files are different (when they're not) and therefore deletes the copied file and recopies it down. Any ideas on what the problem might be? Here's the command I'm using: rsync -av -e ssh --delete --delete-during --force --modify-window=5 linuxserver:stuff/ stuff/ -a means (at least) preserve -p (permissions) as well as -o (owner) -g (group) and -l (links) not all of which make sense on VFAT. I'd just try -rtE (recursive, preserve times and executability) If that doesn't work, maybe the times are out of synch on the boxes; try synching them or tell rsync to determine similarity on content (-c -- checksum, not mod-time size) Thanks Matt, I tried various options: * -v -rt -e ssh --delete-during --size-only --compress * defaults,codepage=850,iocharset=iso8859-1,utf8,uid=1000,gid=1000 Some directories were still transferring (even though they hadn't changed). The problem seemed to be caused by long upper/lower case directory names; I couldn't be bothered working out what the problem was so I just wrote a script to rename all the directories :-) -- Sonia Hamilton. GPG key A8B77238. . Complaining that Linux doesn't work well with Windows is like ... oh, say, evaluating an early automobile and complaining that there's no place to hitch up a horse. (Daniel Dvorkin) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Ubuntu 6.06 wireless networking
* On Fri, Jul 07, 2006 at 01:57:31AM +1000, Jeff Waugh wrote: The default software isn't clever enough to do this for you. However, with a little help from Network Manager (install network-manager-gnome), you will have a *very* pleasurable network switching experience; both wifi and wired. Hey Jeff, I installed network manager, but I couldn't seem to find a way of configuring or running it. I had a look around with dpkg -L network-manager, couldn't see anything obvious. Is it just Friday afternoon my brain has gone to sleep? -- Sonia Hamilton. GPG key A8B77238. . Complaining that Linux doesn't work well with Windows is like ... oh, say, evaluating an early automobile and complaining that there's no place to hitch up a horse. (Daniel Dvorkin) -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] Dynamic routing - RIP or BGP or what?
$quoted_author = Howard Lowndes ; I want to do some dynamic routing in a network and I don't know whether I should be using RIP or BGP. RIP is an intra-AS routing protocol. BGP is an inter-AS routing protocol. } quagga } 1.2.3.4 ||192.168.1.1192.168.1.0/24 I'net }|eth1eth0|-| } ||default gw | } | |192.168.1.2 || | eth1 | | quagga| | eth0 | || |192.168.2.1 | V V 192.168.2.0/24 When I bring the 192.168.2.0/24 network up I want to be able to broadcast that 192.168.1.0/24 network so that the 192.169.1.0/24 network and anything coming in via 1.2.3.4 knows that it is accessible via the 192.168.1.2 interface, but when I don't have the 192.168.2.0/24 network up I don't want to broadcast it, or let the 192.168.1.0/24 or the public world know anything about it. I have installed quagga where shown but I don't know whether I should be using RIP or BGP and I don't know wheta the config files should look like. Sounds like you want RIP. cheers marty -- In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
[SLUG] Re: Dynamic routing - RIP or BGP or what?
On Fri, Jul 07, 2006 at 03:04:01PM +1000, Howard Lowndes wrote: I want to do some dynamic routing in a network and I don't know whether I should be using RIP or BGP. } quagga } 1.2.3.4 ||192.168.1.1192.168.1.0/24 I'net }|eth1eth0|-| } ||default gw | } | |192.168.1.2 || | eth1 | | quagga| | eth0 | || |192.168.2.1 | V V 192.168.2.0/24 When I bring the 192.168.2.0/24 network up I want to be able to broadcast that 192.168.1.0/24 network so that the 192.169.1.0/24 network and anything coming in via 1.2.3.4 knows that it is accessible via the 192.168.1.2 interface, but when I don't have the 192.168.2.0/24 network up I don't want to broadcast it, or let the 192.168.1.0/24 or the public world know anything about it. I have installed quagga where shown but I don't know whether I should be using RIP or BGP and I don't know wheta the config files should look like. You don't want to use BGP, it's not the right solution. Frankly, for this situation, quagga probably isn't what you want either. I'd just have the gateway (.1.1) route 192.168.2.0/24 via .1.2 always and let that machine drop the packet on the floor or send back a rack off message if .2.0/24 isn't available. If you use dynamic routing in this situation, unless you blackhole .2.0/24 when it's not available, it'll be pushed out via the internet connection (assuming that's the default route for the gateway box) which is Bad Stuff. - Matt -- I have a cat, so I know that when she digs her very sharp claws into my chest or stomach it's really a sign of affection, but I don't see any reason for programming languages to show affection with pain. -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
