Re: [SLUG] Eee

[CaT]

On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 12:11:06PM +1100, Jeff Waugh wrote:
> 
> 
> > > So what does it have going for it? It's, uh, cheap. And the usefulness
> > > of the product reflects that. That's about it. :-)
> > 
> > I think you overestimate what most people need.  To do word processing,
> > email and web browsing, you really don't need that much.  Though I agree,
> > they could fit a 10" screen in -- and probably will.
> 
> Most "normals" I know don't like my laptop because the screen is too small.
> They want 14" or more, basically as a portable desktop replacement. I don't
> know too many "normals" who like ultra-portables.

Heh. I didn't like ultra-portables. Screen was way to small. Then some
silly bugger came up with OLPC and suddenly ultra-portables became a lot
more interesting to me. Not being able to get ahold of one (and with them
being designed mainly for kids) the Eee becomes a lot more interesting
as the price helps address its shortcomings. It still wouldn't be a
general computer for me. It's too small screen-wise for that IMO, but
as a specialised machine (portable terminal, web browser, basic word
processing, email, etc) I suspect that it'll be great. Also, being as
light as it is, I don't think I'd even notice this sucker in the backpack.

I wonder, though, if it comes with bunny-ears and funky colours. :)

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Re: [SLUG] Eee

[Ken Wilson]

amoungst the PDAs there has been nothing to replace the psion.
a keyboard that you can type on, a readable screen, it fits in your 
pocket, it runs on 2 AA batteries, it houses its stylus and at a 
relatively cheap price.
Palms are a lookup device, but for older eyes have small text size and 
text entry is slow.

Blackberrys dont have a easily useable keyboard.
some PDAs will keep trying to grow and small laptops will keep trying to 
get smaller.
There will be a market for this genre, and various variations of it. eg 
smaller but with more memory, or larger screen, or more battery. It has 
sold well so all the other manufacturers will make one too.

Ken


Rev Simon Rumble wrote:

This one time, at band camp, Jeff Waugh wrote:


Most "normals" I know don't like my laptop because the screen is too small.
They want 14" or more, basically as a portable desktop replacement. I don't
know too many "normals" who like ultra-portables.


Yes but that's like going to your accounting department, who use paper 
ledgers, and asking them how they'd like the replacement computer 
software to work.  They'll explain exactly how the paper system works, 
and get you to implement that in software.


I think this device, at this price point, defines a new genre.  
Something that, due to the price, justifies the limitations.


I want one.  Now to work on SWMBO...


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Re: [SLUG] Eee

[Sam Lawrance]

On 06/12/2007, at 10:38 AM, Alan L Tyree wrote:


On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:25:39 +
Rev Simon Rumble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


This one time, at band camp, Robert Thorsby wrote:


Also, for one that doesn't have the miniPCI thingy blocked. :-(


All this talk about opening the little yellow tab that says "opening
will void warranty" is bollocks though, right?  I'm pretty sure under
consumer law that you can't put those kinds of restrictions on a
warranty.


I think that's right. Section 71 of the Trade Practices Act provides
statutory warranties with respect to quality and fitness for purpose.
Section 68 says that these may not be excluded or modified. The
supplier would have to show that "opening" on its own rendered the
machine unfit. Doubtful.


Does that mean you are unlikely to void any statutory warranty  
granted to you, but may still void any extended warranty offered by  
the manufacturer?


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Re: [SLUG] Eee

[Alan L Tyree]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 10:09:27 +1100
Sam Lawrance <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On 06/12/2007, at 10:38 AM, Alan L Tyree wrote:
> 
> > On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 23:25:39 +
> > Rev Simon Rumble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> This one time, at band camp, Robert Thorsby wrote:
> >>
> >>> Also, for one that doesn't have the miniPCI thingy blocked. :-(
> >>
> >> All this talk about opening the little yellow tab that says
> >> "opening will void warranty" is bollocks though, right?  I'm
> >> pretty sure under consumer law that you can't put those kinds of
> >> restrictions on a warranty.
> >
> > I think that's right. Section 71 of the Trade Practices Act provides
> > statutory warranties with respect to quality and fitness for
> > purpose. Section 68 says that these may not be excluded or
> > modified. The supplier would have to show that "opening" on its own
> > rendered the machine unfit. Doubtful.
> 
> Does that mean you are unlikely to void any statutory warranty  
> granted to you, but may still void any extended warranty offered by  
> the manufacturer?

I suppose it does, but in my experience the "extended warranties"
really don't give you much more than the statutory ones. Sure, you
might have to sue them to enforce it, but that is cheap in the NSW
Consumer Tenancy and Trader Tribunal. In other words, the "extended
warranty" might save you a little hassle (assuming that it is promptly
honoured - not always the case in my experience), but it probably
doesn't add anything else.

Alan

> 
> 


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Re: [SLUG] Eee

[Sridhar Dhanapalan]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007, Jeff Waugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > I think you overestimate what most people need.  To do word processing,
> > email and web browsing, you really don't need that much.  Though I agree,
> > they could fit a 10" screen in -- and probably will.
>
> Most "normals" I know don't like my laptop because the screen is too small.
> They want 14" or more, basically as a portable desktop replacement. I don't
> know too many "normals" who like ultra-portables.

I think people just need time to adjust to it. As a user of a 17-inch 
(1920x1200) laptop, your laptop looked positively tiny to me the first time I 
saw it. After a couple of minutes, it looked much more inviting, and the 
portability is divine.

Obviously the eeePC is not for everyone. No product is. But its sales figures 
have shown that there is clearly a niche in the market for it.


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in its citizens. When software owners tell us that helping our neighbours in 
a natural way is 'piracy', they pollute our society's civic spirit." - 
Richard M. Stallman


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[SLUG] xterm fonts

[Richard Heycock]

Does anyone know how to set up a proper bold font in xterm? I've got a
low res screen so I've got everything as small as possible but bold
fonts in xterm are pretty much unreadable.

I can get a decent bold font if I use eterm but I don't know how to find
out which font eterm uses.

rgh

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Re: [SLUG] Eee

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Rev Simon Rumble wrote:

This one time, at band camp, Jeff Waugh wrote:


I'm all for ultra-portable -- my laptop preferences are restricted to 12" or
13" because I travel so much. I plug in to a 24" screen at home. :-)


Actually I think weight is more important than size.  Under a kilo is 
pretty impressive!


I was a little surprised how heavy it appeared for its size.






So what does it have going for it? It's, uh, cheap. And the usefulness of
the product reflects that. That's about it. :-)


I think you overestimate what most people need.  To do word processing, 
email and web browsing, you really don't need that much.  Though I 
agree, they could fit a 10" screen in -- and probably will.


There is a built in camera which workedyou can capture Ogg files! Didn't get 
to try any conferencing




What's cool about this is that it's shown that much cheaper is possible 
(especially without software license costs).  This will change the 
market.  The success of this device guarantees that every Taiwanese chop 
shop will have their own versions within the year.





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Re: [SLUG] Eee

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Another review here...

Marghanita da Cruz wrote:

Rev Simon Rumble wrote:

So they've sold out apparently.  Anyone got one?  Comments?

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/australias-cheapest-laptop-sells-out/2007/12/05/1196812808404.html 





Yes I have seen one in operation...(very cute, very portable,  worked 
extremely wellI want
one - it comes with Xandros and remote storage functionality). With 
respect to the keyboard and screen - small is good for portability - but 
there are USB and I think a monitor port so you can attach full keyboard 
and screen - for office use!


There is a review here
 



Marghanita



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Re: [SLUG] Eee

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Rev Simon Rumble wrote:

So they've sold out apparently.  Anyone got one?  Comments?

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/australias-cheapest-laptop-sells-out/2007/12/05/1196812808404.html



Yes I have seen one in operation...(very cute, very portable,  worked extremely 
wellI want
one - it comes with Xandros and remote storage functionality). With respect to 
the keyboard and screen - small is good for portability - but there are USB and 
I think a monitor port so you can attach full keyboard and screen - for office use!


There is a review here


Marghanita
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[SLUG] Video available of November 2007 General Talk

[Sridhar Dhanapalan]

For those who missed Melissa Draper's presentation ('From Equality to 
Diversity: The Road Less Taken') due to the last-minute emergency change, 
Melissa has made available the video of her delivering the same talk at CLUG 
in June:

  http://geekosophical.net/misc/clug-june07/

Due to equipment failure, we were unfortunately unable to obtain a complete 
recording of her talk at SLUG. I can say, however, that it was very well 
received, with a lively Q&A session afterwards.



On Fri, 30 Nov 2007, Sridhar Dhanapalan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Unfortunately, we are no longer able to offer the Careers Panel at this
> month's SLUG meeting. In its place we will have the following:
>
>
> ** Melissa Draper - From Equality to Diversity: The Road Less Taken **
>
> This paper describes how due to the nature of participation, the Open
> Source community can excel in diversity, whilst at the same time fall short
> for reasons of active and passive discrimination. Using gender imbalance as
> an example, aspects of diversity failures such as identifying causes,
> reparative actions and the reasons for doing so are discussed.
>
> This is the same talk as was delivered at CLUG in June and at OSDC earlier
> this week.
>
> More information at:
>
>   http://www.cgpublisher.com/conferences/107/proposals/25/index_html
>   http://lists.samba.org/archive/linux/2007-June/017886.html
>
> On Thu, 8 Nov 2007, Sridhar Dhanapalan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > == November SLUG Monthly Meeting ==
> >
> > You can read this announcement on the Web at
> > http://www.slug.org.au/node/87
> >
> >
> > When:
> >18.30 - 20.30, Friday, 30 November, 2007
> >
> > We start at 18:50 but we ask that people arrive 20 minutes early so we
> > can all get into the building and start on time. Please do not arrive
> > before 18:00, as it may hinder business activities for our host!
> >
> > Appropriate signage and directions will be posted on the building.
> >
> >
> > Where:
> >Atlassian[1], 173-185 Sussex Street, Sydney
> >(corner of Sussex and Market Street)
> >
> > Entry is via the rear on Slip Street. There are stairs going down along
> > the outside of building from Sussex St to near the entrance. A map of the
> > area and directions can be found here[2].
> >
> >
> > = Talks =
> >
> > ** Jeff Waugh and guests - Careers Panel **
> >
> > Jeff Waugh will lead a discussion of issues surrounding employment and
> > careers in the FOSS world.
> >
> > ** Jamie Wilkinson - Linux authentication internals **
> >
> > Jamie Wilkinson will be treating you all to a relaxing jaunt through
> > glibc's nameservice switch, or what goes on under the hood of
> > /etc/nsswitch.conf. In particular, we'll look at how it interoperates
> > with LDAP, why nscd got invented, and all of the problems therein. This
> > is a warm-up talk to one of similar content to be presented at LCA 2008.
> >
> >
> > = Meeting Schedule =
> >
> > * 6:15pm: Open Doors
> > * 6.40pm: The Usual Suspects
> > * 6:45pm: General Talk (see above)
> > * 7:30pm: Intermission
> > * 7:45pm: Split into two groups for
> > * In-depth Talk (see above)
> > * SLUGlets: Linux Q&A and other miscellany
> > * 8:30pm: Dinner
> >
> >
> > We hope to see you there!
> >
> > - Sridhar
> >
> >
> >
> > [1] http://www.atlassian.com
> > [2] http://tinyurl.com/35fxes



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[SLUG] Looking for speakers for the next SLUG meeting

[Sridhar Dhanapalan]

Hi everyone,

We are looking for speakers for the next SLUG meeting. Due to LCA, we would 
like to hold it earlier in the month than usual - most likely on Friday 
January 18.

If you are delivering a speech at LCA, SLUG is the perfect means to practise 
and receive valuable feedback. As usual, we are after a General and an 
In-Depth talk. For more information:

  http://www.slug.org.au/cfp.html
  http://www.slug.org.au/meetings/guide.html

If you wish to make an offer, please let the Committee know via 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

- Sridhar


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[Sridhar Dhanapalan]

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Re: [SLUG] MySQL replication and --replicate-ignore-table=

[Grant Parnell]

On Wed, December 5, 2007 11:45 am, Sonia Hamilton wrote:
> I'm working with MySQL5 replication at the moment. All is working fine
> except for one problem - there's a large table on the Master that I
> don't want to replicate (bandwidth), and the Master is running MySQL4.
>
> The MySQL manual refers to --replicate-ignore-table=db.tbl, but my
> understanding of this is that the Slave retrieves all data made
> available by the Master, *then* discards data based on ignore rules,
> thus not solving my bandwidth issue.
>
> Can anyone confirm or deny this?
>
> Any suggestions for getting around the problem?

Hardly optimal but we did manage to get around it by running another MySQL
server on the LAN and doing the ignore on that, then replicating from that
to the remote site. We had a physical server laying around but these days
something like OpenVZ or KVM (or other virtualisation systems) would do
the trick. Actually... you don't have to do that either... I just
remembered I did run another mysql server on a different port on the same
machine.

Perhaps one day some enterprising person might somehow manage to 'proxy'
the replication more efficiently.

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Re: [SLUG] Eee

[Ken Wilson]

Nothing has really replaced the psion. small but usable keyboard, and as 
much screen as can be fitted into a pocket with useful battery life from 
2 AAs. PDAs are all lookup devices with very limited data entry.

Maybe this will stimulate progress in that direction.
Ken

Jeff Waugh wrote:




As for the screen being too small, Jeff I think that's kinda the point.
It's meant to be ultra-portable, like the old Toshiba Librettos.


I'm all for ultra-portable -- my laptop preferences are restricted to 12" or
13" because I travel so much. I plug in to a 24" screen at home. :-)

I think 7" is too much of a tradeoff. They can easily fit a 10" screen on
the sucker, which would be significantly better for all use cases. They'll
ship one soon enough.

I think this ends up being a misbalanced product, like those OQO machines.

The Eee is *almost* a laptop, but the screen sucks, and it's not powerful
enough to be comfortable... but the form factor is really not interestingly
different enough to warrant those tradeoffs. It doesn't suit any use other
than average laptop use cases, and my laptop has the right balance of size,
cost and power (and you can get similarly powerful at a lower price). The
Eee is certainly more powerful than a PDA, but way too big. It doesn't even
attempt UMPC or tablet functionality.

So what does it have going for it? It's, uh, cheap. And the usefulness of
the product reflects that. That's about it. :-)

- Jeff


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[SLUG] python-uno & open office depends problem

[Mike Lake]

Hi all

I have this problem which is stopping me from installing anything new.
System is Debian stable on a Dell.

$ sudo apt-get upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
  python-uno: Depends: openoffice.org-core (= 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2) but 
2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch4 is installed
E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.

So I tried the force option:

$ sudo apt-get -f upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Correcting dependencies... Done
The following packages will be upgraded:
  python-uno
1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
5 not fully installed or removed.
Need to get 0B/358kB of archives.
After unpacking 131kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y
(Reading database ... 133572 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to replace python-uno 2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch2 (using 
.../python-uno_2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch4_i386.deb) ...
INFO: using old version '/usr/bin/python2.3'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/pycentral", line 1373, in ?
main()
  File "/usr/bin/pycentral", line 1367, in main
rv = action.run(global_options)
  File "/usr/bin/pycentral", line 952, in run
pkg.remove(runtimes, remove_script_files=True)
  File "/usr/bin/pycentral", line 697, in remove
default_runtime.remove_byte_code(self.private_files)
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'remove_byte_code'
dpkg: warning - old pre-removal script returned error exit status 1
dpkg - trying script from the new package instead ...
INFO: using old version '/usr/bin/python2.3'
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/bin/pycentral", line 1373, in ?
main()
  File "/usr/bin/pycentral", line 1367, in main
rv = action.run(global_options)
  File "/usr/bin/pycentral", line 952, in run
pkg.remove(runtimes, remove_script_files=True)
  File "/usr/bin/pycentral", line 697, in remove
default_runtime.remove_byte_code(self.private_files)
AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'remove_byte_code'
dpkg: error processing 
/var/cache/apt/archives/python-uno_2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch4_i386.deb (--unpack):
 subprocess new pre-removal script returned error exit status 1
INFO: using old version '/usr/bin/python2.3'
Errors were encountered while processing:
 /var/cache/apt/archives/python-uno_2.0.4.dfsg.2-7etch4_i386.deb
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
$ 

I can't remove python-uno as openoffice-writer depends on it.
I notice that it's trying to use python2.3 when I have python2.3, 2.4 and 2.5 
installed.
In /etc/alternatives/ I have python -> /usr/bin/python2.4

I'm a bit lost on how to proceed.

Michael Lake

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Re: [SLUG] Eee

[Simon Wong]

I had a chance to have a quick look at one at a school I visited
recently - they were considering them for all the Primary kids :-)

My interest is that it is cheap, small and light.  Assuming that I can
install OpenVPN on it, then it's a great device to take away on holidays
if I need to SSH/OpenVPN in to any basic support and I haven't lost my
$4000 laptop if someone steals it.

OOo seemed to start reasonably quickly (ie same as my *real* laptop) and
the built-in wifi means surfing the web is possible for looking up maps,
timetables etc.

I want one!

Can't believe that they have sold out down there will have a scout
around Brissie...


On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 21:20 +, Rev Simon Rumble wrote:
> So they've sold out apparently.  Anyone got one?  Comments?
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/australias-cheapest-laptop-sells-out/2007/12/05/1196812808404.html
> 
> -- 
> Rev Simon Rumble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> www.rumble.net
> 
> The Tourist Engineer
> Nerds need vacations too.
> http://engineer.openguides.org/
> 
> Only one person ever attended a parliament with
> honest intentions - and that was Guy Fawkes.

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Re: [SLUG] Eee

[Rev Simon Rumble]

This one time, at band camp, Jeff Waugh wrote:

> Most "normals" I know don't like my laptop because the screen is too small.
> They want 14" or more, basically as a portable desktop replacement. I don't
> know too many "normals" who like ultra-portables.

Yes but that's like going to your accounting department, who use paper 
ledgers, and asking them how they'd like the replacement computer 
software to work.  They'll explain exactly how the paper system works, 
and get you to implement that in software.

I think this device, at this price point, defines a new genre.  
Something that, due to the price, justifies the limitations.

I want one.  Now to work on SWMBO...

-- 
Rev Simon Rumble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
www.rumble.net

The Tourist Engineer
Because geeks travel too.
http://engineer.openguides.org/

 "Diplomacy is the art of saying "nice doggy" until
  you can find a rock."
- Will Rogers
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Re: [SLUG] Eee

[Jeff Waugh]

> > So what does it have going for it? It's, uh, cheap. And the usefulness
> > of the product reflects that. That's about it. :-)
> 
> I think you overestimate what most people need.  To do word processing,
> email and web browsing, you really don't need that much.  Though I agree,
> they could fit a 10" screen in -- and probably will.

Most "normals" I know don't like my laptop because the screen is too small.
They want 14" or more, basically as a portable desktop replacement. I don't
know too many "normals" who like ultra-portables.

> What's cool about this is that it's shown that much cheaper is possible
> (especially without software license costs).  This will change the market.
> The success of this device guarantees that every Taiwanese chop shop will
> have their own versions within the year.

OLPC [1] -> Eee -> something useful. ;-)

- Jeff

[1] Where the OLPC actually *is* an innovative form factor and design for a
particular target audience.

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