Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On 6/04/2010 2:06 PM, Dean Hamstead wrote: 2. Slug has become less technical However the truth of the other half and point 2 is extremely subjective. Just to balance the discussion, my work is technical but in a different computing area and operating system to Linux so I find some of the discussions and solutions enlightening. I use Linux and have done since the early to mid 1990 but I do not follow all the details and what is presented I find useful. The chat about local suppliers and services is also useful. Chris -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
My 2c. Having been a SLUG troll for many years now (10+?, i think i was maybe 15-16, now im edging dangerously closer to 30), of late i have found SLUG to be less and less interesting. I have pondered on it from time to time as I used to really enjoy SLUG. My thoughts are along two lines... 1. My ability has exceeded the average on slug 2. Slug has become less technical Because i can only see myself in the first person, i can only confidently say that point 1 is at least half true (in that i am working full time on linux now, rather than as a high school hobbiest) However the truth of the other half and point 2 is extremely subjective. Its also possible that a point 3. might be that distributions are successfully building their own communities, which people are involved in rather than their local linux UG. Certainly i now prefer the highly technical discussions on the debian and freebsd lists. As i said my 2c. Nothing more than some thoughts. Dean dave b wrote: From my perspective, the talks given at atlassian were always good or interesting. Some of the talks when slug has been at google have been less interesting. While there have been a few BOF's which have been great - like the multimedia one which would be an interesting talk on its own, there seems to be a reduction in interesting or informative talks. I remember listening to a talk on video editing which was really informative from some one who was more of an end user of linux than a dev. When people get busy / have other things on they are less likely to attend unless there is good a social side or an interest side. -- http://fragfest.com.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
>From my perspective, the talks given at atlassian were always good or interesting. Some of the talks when slug has been at google have been less interesting. While there have been a few BOF's which have been great - like the multimedia one which would be an interesting talk on its own, there seems to be a reduction in interesting or informative talks. I remember listening to a talk on video editing which was really informative from some one who was more of an end user of linux than a dev. When people get busy / have other things on they are less likely to attend unless there is good a social side or an interest side. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline -info
I wonder if you could let us know if this thread results in a rise in membership? Ken Wilson wrote: treasu...@slug.org.au will get the current treasurer Options, cheque or money order via post, or direct deposit works, you would just need to deposit in SLUG A/C and give it an identifier and send me the details via email or post; date, amount, location, your name and address. I would then wait for the bank statement showing it and when that arrives send off receipt and card. Or you could pay at a meeting. Full year membership is only $25 p.a., or $15 p.a. for for students, unemployed people and healthcare card holders and entitles you to free or ultra low cost entry to all SLUG activities. Voting rights under the SLUG Inc. articles of association can only be pledged by current financial members. Bank details; Commonwealth bank A/C SLUG, Sydney Linux Users Group Incorporated, BSB 062005 A/C 10496399 Mail; SLUG PO Box Q811 QVB, NSW 1230 Cheque made out to:- Sydney Linux Users Group Incorporated. webpage http://slug.org.au/ next meeting http://slug.org.au/ regards Ken exSLUG treasurer Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On 2 April 2010 19:16, jon wrote: I'm happy to give a talk on Inkscape or OpenOffice. There's a couple of other neat applications I'm happy to discuss too. But it would all be very much at an introductory level. That's the reason I suggested an Applications SIG, to try and bring in people who are just switching over from W*ndows and want to go on doing what they've been doing there. We already have a forum for such discussion: it is called SLUGlets. I'm sure they would be happy to see your talk. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline -info
treasu...@slug.org.au will get the current treasurer Options, cheque or money order via post, or direct deposit works, you would just need to deposit in SLUG A/C and give it an identifier and send me the details via email or post; date, amount, location, your name and address. I would then wait for the bank statement showing it and when that arrives send off receipt and card. Or you could pay at a meeting. Full year membership is only $25 p.a., or $15 p.a. for for students, unemployed people and healthcare card holders and entitles you to free or ultra low cost entry to all SLUG activities. Voting rights under the SLUG Inc. articles of association can only be pledged by current financial members. Bank details; Commonwealth bank A/C SLUG, Sydney Linux Users Group Incorporated, BSB 062005 A/C 10496399 Mail; SLUG PO Box Q811 QVB, NSW 1230 Cheque made out to:- Sydney Linux Users Group Incorporated. webpage http://slug.org.au/ next meeting http://slug.org.au/ regards Ken exSLUG treasurer Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On 2 April 2010 19:16, jon wrote: I'm happy to give a talk on Inkscape or OpenOffice. There's a couple of other neat applications I'm happy to discuss too. But it would all be very much at an introductory level. That's the reason I suggested an Applications SIG, to try and bring in people who are just switching over from W*ndows and want to go on doing what they've been doing there. We already have a forum for such discussion: it is called SLUGlets. I'm sure they would be happy to see your talk. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On 2 April 2010 19:16, jon wrote: > I'm happy to give a talk on Inkscape or OpenOffice. There's a couple of > other neat applications I'm happy to discuss too. But it would all be very > much at an introductory level. That's the reason I suggested an Applications > SIG, to try and bring in people who are just switching over from W*ndows and > want to go on doing what they've been doing there. We already have a forum for such discussion: it is called SLUGlets. I'm sure they would be happy to see your talk. -- Bring choice back to your computer. http://www.linux.org.au/linux -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On 2 April 2010 14:11, Adrian Chadd wrote: > FYI: > > PLUG has had similar discussions and similar issues. > It may be worthwhile having the bodies discuss things informally > to see what ideas can be brainstormed. There is a Council of LUGs group, who regularly discuss issues relevant to groups nationwide. They have a mailing list at http://lists.linux.org.au/listinfo/lugcomms They also have IRC meetings, I think once per month. -- Bring choice back to your computer. http://www.linux.org.au/linux -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
James Polley wrote: On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 8:14 AM, jon wrote: "As of March, we have 37 financial members. Please note that "As of March" refers to "immediately prior to the AGM". As of the AGM the number is now (if I'm recalling correctly) 25. Perhaps we need to focus on the 700 or so SLUG list members. I sent in my membersip money by snailmail, because I find the SLUG mailing list valuable and if SLUG didn't exist the mailing list wouldn't exist. With regard to meetings, while Perth may be a bit far to cater for...perhaps meetings at different venues around Sydney could be useful. With the increased use of linux, I think SLUG is more important than ever. If there is still a slot on the committee...perhaps someone who would like to take on organising meetings at a second venue may like to step forward. As a user, my 2c worth is I would like to attend an hour of short 10-20 min talks - which keep me informed about what is happening in the sydney relating to linux. A break out for catching up with the speaker, of particular interest, over pizza would be good. Though my preference would be for Thursday night. Online would be more convenient though. CCing committee list because that's something I'd like us to look into (actually, I think I heard Neil muttering about this already). I don't want to alienate the technical gurus, but I suspect that over the next five years or so there will be increasing numbers of people in the same situation that I am. So if you are looking for ways to promote SLUG, that's my two cents' worth. Right now it all seems very technical and insular. *checks timestamp* No, this really was written today. It's interesting you say that, because we've already lost a lot of the Old Guard for precisely this reason - they feel we've drifted too far in this direction for them to be interested any more. The message I get from this is that we are currently trying to serve a very diverse audience, and failing to serve any of it very well. a I don't know if this is the place to raise this, but as a new member I can think of two things that might help: 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online -- or even by snailmail -- rather than having to physically attend a meeting (right now, for instance, I'm not a member because I don't get into town when the meetings are on). It's already possible to do so by snailmail, and 4% of current members availed themselves of this. http://wiki.slug.org.au/activeconstitution has the rules for becoming a member in the section "APPLICATION FOR MEMBERSHIP". The address to send your snail mail is listed on http://slug.org.au/contacts.html. -- Marghanita da Cruz http://ramin.com.au Tel: 0414-869202 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On Saturday 03 April 2010 05:45:28 slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote: > > Also, SLUG should consider producing a magazine for members filled with > > articles from members including tutorials, reviews of open source > > software and code snippets, updates on what members are working on and > > some basics. It could become a benefit of membership. It could be > > emailed as a pdf to financial members at their slug.org.au email address. > > Interesting idea. > > I see one major problem and one major ideological issue though. > > The problem is the same one we have with talks: you can't have content > without someone taking the time to produce the content. We have enough > trouble now just trying to round up two people to give a talk every > month; I can't imagine getting written content would be any easier. > > On the other hand, a short article might be easier to produce than a > 45-minute talk - and there's no public speaking required, which no > doubt would make it easier for some people to participate. > > If we could get the content I like this idea - except for the "Emailed > as a PDF" bit. I think there are much better ways we could present > this: for instance, an area of the SLUG website only accessible by > financial members; or even a simple private mailing list. > > The ideological issue is more serious. SLUG has never (to the best of > my knowledge) been about withholding information. We run our mailing > lists in public: anyone is free to read the archives, to join the > list, to participate, without needing to be a financial member. We > don't charge attendance fees for meetings, we don't require that > people coming to meetings become members. The idea of having a private > member's magazine seems antithetical to everything SLUG has ever done. > > There are compromises of course; I believe the SAGE-AU mailing list > archives used to be members-only for 6 months and then released to the > public (although now it seems the archives are completely > members-only). We could perhaps investigate something similar. > > My gut feeling though is that, no matter how much we want to provide > value to members, having private content is not the right way to go. My 2c from Perth, so appropriate pinch of salt ... If and when I want to read interesting stuff I purchase Linux Format (et al) so SLUG cannot compete with this content. Mostly you are the victim of your own success. Who goes to 'the automobile club' these days. A few niche affinardos, likewise us linux users. I've also noticed a few times that an interesting or socially relevant topic is declared OT. (it was OT!) IMHO clinging steadfastly to your core values will get the diehard core members only. Meandering makes everybody lose interest. You need to clearly position yourselves and get the membership that matches your position. The world has changed, the audience has changed, I'm still as enthusiastic and technical as ever BUT others arn't. Here endith the lesson James -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
Your problem is that membership at the moment is difficult and has no benefits. If you convert it to so that it's convenient, that's a good start. If you then want to create benefits, you're really going to have to introduce some form of scarcity. But in a way that doesn't lead to information restriction entirely. Now that the videos are flowing again, perhaps a delay? Members only for the first 3-6 months, and then open it up after that perhaps? Adam K On 2 April 2010 22:20, James Polley wrote: > On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Heracles wrote: > >> Also, SLUG should consider producing a magazine for members filled with >> articles from members including tutorials, reviews of open source >> software and code snippets, updates on what members are working on and >> some basics. It could become a benefit of membership. It could be >> emailed as a pdf to financial members at their slug.org.au email address. > > Interesting idea. > > I see one major problem and one major ideological issue though. > > The problem is the same one we have with talks: you can't have content > without someone taking the time to produce the content. We have enough > trouble now just trying to round up two people to give a talk every > month; I can't imagine getting written content would be any easier. > > On the other hand, a short article might be easier to produce than a > 45-minute talk - and there's no public speaking required, which no > doubt would make it easier for some people to participate. > > If we could get the content I like this idea - except for the "Emailed > as a PDF" bit. I think there are much better ways we could present > this: for instance, an area of the SLUG website only accessible by > financial members; or even a simple private mailing list. > > The ideological issue is more serious. SLUG has never (to the best of > my knowledge) been about withholding information. We run our mailing > lists in public: anyone is free to read the archives, to join the > list, to participate, without needing to be a financial member. We > don't charge attendance fees for meetings, we don't require that > people coming to meetings become members. The idea of having a private > member's magazine seems antithetical to everything SLUG has ever done. > > There are compromises of course; I believe the SAGE-AU mailing list > archives used to be members-only for 6 months and then released to the > public (although now it seems the archives are completely > members-only). We could perhaps investigate something similar. > > My gut feeling though is that, no matter how much we want to provide > value to members, having private content is not the right way to go. > -- > SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ > Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html > -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On 2 April 2010 23:59, Daniel Pittman wrote: > > James Polley writes: > > On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Heracles wrote: > > > >> Also, SLUG should consider producing a magazine for members filled with > >> articles from members including tutorials, reviews of open source software > >> and code snippets, updates on what members are working on and some > >> basics. It could become a benefit of membership. It could be emailed as a > >> pdf to financial members at their slug.org.au email address. I too would pay as soon as there is an option to do this without having to attend the meetings - between work and a small family I just can't get a "pass" to come to the meetings. I'll also back-pay for the previous years and would like to encourage others to consider to do the same. Since it seems to me from the responses that there is no lack of motivation by people to pay for the current offering, this discussion of a magazine seems redundant - unless someone wants to run with it anyway. Cheers, --Amos -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Daniel Pittman wrote: > Incidentally, before someone comes to the clever idea: if y'all do decide to > do a magazine, and you do decide to reuse content from the mailing list, make > sure you get appropriate licensing. > > Which, in turn, means you get a real copyright lawyer to OK your strategy. > > Nothing sucks worse than republishing, as an example[5], my content, then > finding out that I deliver a demand for significant licensing fees from you, > backed up with my own lawyer and legal threats.[6] I know what yo mean as it takes a lot of time to get permission to reproduce articles. This is why, in the magazine I edit for my other computer club, I only publish content that is submitted by the author of the material or that which comes with a specific permission from the original author. If someone submits material from an unknown source I find out where it came from and get permission. If that is not forthcoming then I don't publish it. Unfortunately this means that I end up writing about 30 to 40 percent of the articles myself sometimes. I guess I spend about 70-100 hours on each issue. It certainly cuts a chunk out of my life. But with an Editorial Committee it would not be so bad. I do it alone and as some of our members are overseas members it is the only benefit they get from the club. Heracles -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAku2ivYACgkQybPcBAs9CE8zTACgrfF1RLsx69vc3ncIKWlip56d +FUAoLCloUAxiMw1ohPBE0GEcxMZpjlT =40x6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
James Polley writes: > On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Heracles wrote: > >> Also, SLUG should consider producing a magazine for members filled with >> articles from members including tutorials, reviews of open source software >> and code snippets, updates on what members are working on and some >> basics. It could become a benefit of membership. It could be emailed as a >> pdf to financial members at their slug.org.au email address. > > Interesting idea. > > I see one major problem and one major ideological issue though. > > The problem is the same one we have with talks: you can't have content > without someone taking the time to produce the content. We have enough > trouble now just trying to round up two people to give a talk every > month; I can't imagine getting written content would be any easier. > > On the other hand, a short article might be easier to produce than a > 45-minute talk - and there's no public speaking required, which no > doubt would make it easier for some people to participate. For what it is worth[1], my experience is that getting people to produce a *good* written article is much, much harder than getting a good talk out of them. (A good talk is hard to get, incidentally.) When you present you have feedback, and can see if your audience is falling asleep because you are telling them what they already know, or if they are confused because they don't understand a single word you say.[2] In writing you start with tighter constraints on presentation, since written language is much less forgiving and much more formal than spoken language. Add to that the need to use a suitable typesetting system, a vocabulary that benefits from hypertext and demands complex presentation[3], and you are setting a pretty high bar to get a good result. So, yeah, it makes it easier for some people to participate — but I don't think that you get much benefit from that. Writing complex and explanatory documents is hard work for people who do it regularly, let alone those of us who mostly write in less format settings. > If we could get the content I like this idea - except for the "Emailed as a > PDF" bit. I think there are much better ways we could present this: for > instance, an area of the SLUG website only accessible by financial members; > or even a simple private mailing list. Doing the later seems, to me, to be duplicating the strategy of LWN. They do OK with it, apparently, which is a positive. The negative, of course, is that their potential paying audience is about an Internet-million[4] times bigger... If I was pitching this sort of idea I would probably approach Linux Australia with the idea of running it as an Australia-wide publication under their banner. Then you could approach all the different LUGs around the country, and perhaps also NZ, to expand both your contributor-base and your audience. Of course, if I was pitching it I would also go spend a lot of hours talking to people who had published tech magazines over the years. Incidentally, these days none of them are. Every single tech magazine they worked for went bust in the end... Finally, keep in mind that having the magazine is going to demand an editorial staff to produce it. That is a *huge* amount of hard work, even for something that only sees electronic distribution. [...] > There are compromises of course; I believe the SAGE-AU mailing list archives > used to be members-only for 6 months and then released to the public > (although now it seems the archives are completely members-only). We could > perhaps investigate something similar. SAGE-AU have been facing something of the same crisis y'all did here, although more serious since they are aiming at higher goals of business-relevance. Their exec are nice people, though, and will almost certainly tell you about their experience with the changes, and why they made the decisions they did. Daniel Incidentally, before someone comes to the clever idea: if y'all do decide to do a magazine, and you do decide to reuse content from the mailing list, make sure you get appropriate licensing. Which, in turn, means you get a real copyright lawyer to OK your strategy. Nothing sucks worse than republishing, as an example[5], my content, then finding out that I deliver a demand for significant licensing fees from you, backed up with my own lawyer and legal threats.[6] Footnotes: [1] ...especially as I am nothing but a freeloader on the mailing list, and only there because I find the variety of discussions in multiple LUGs more likely to produce something interesting. [2] Ever *bad* presenters have a vague awareness of this, although they might not recover well or change approach to reflect it. [3] Doing *good* layout of either GUI or command-line examples is hard. Good layout for things like configuration ... ouch. [4] In other words: "much bigger, but I don't know how much." [5] ...using me as the subject of it, in the ho
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Heracles wrote: > Also, SLUG should consider producing a magazine for members filled with > articles from members including tutorials, reviews of open source > software and code snippets, updates on what members are working on and > some basics. It could become a benefit of membership. It could be > emailed as a pdf to financial members at their slug.org.au email address. Interesting idea. I see one major problem and one major ideological issue though. The problem is the same one we have with talks: you can't have content without someone taking the time to produce the content. We have enough trouble now just trying to round up two people to give a talk every month; I can't imagine getting written content would be any easier. On the other hand, a short article might be easier to produce than a 45-minute talk - and there's no public speaking required, which no doubt would make it easier for some people to participate. If we could get the content I like this idea - except for the "Emailed as a PDF" bit. I think there are much better ways we could present this: for instance, an area of the SLUG website only accessible by financial members; or even a simple private mailing list. The ideological issue is more serious. SLUG has never (to the best of my knowledge) been about withholding information. We run our mailing lists in public: anyone is free to read the archives, to join the list, to participate, without needing to be a financial member. We don't charge attendance fees for meetings, we don't require that people coming to meetings become members. The idea of having a private member's magazine seems antithetical to everything SLUG has ever done. There are compromises of course; I believe the SAGE-AU mailing list archives used to be members-only for 6 months and then released to the public (although now it seems the archives are completely members-only). We could perhaps investigate something similar. My gut feeling though is that, no matter how much we want to provide value to members, having private content is not the right way to go. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 8:14 AM, jon wrote: > "As of March, we have 37 financial members. Please note that "As of March" refers to "immediately prior to the AGM". As of the AGM the number is now (if I'm recalling correctly) 25. > > I don't know if this is the place to raise this, but as a new member I can > think of two things that might help: > > 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online -- or even by > snailmail -- rather than having to physically attend a meeting (right now, > for instance, I'm not a member because I don't get into town when the > meetings are on). It's already possible to do so by snailmail, and 4% of current members availed themselves of this. http://wiki.slug.org.au/activeconstitution has the rules for becoming a member in the section "APPLICATION FOR MEMBERSHIP". The address to send your snail mail is listed on http://slug.org.au/contacts.html. Online would be more convenient though. CCing committee list because that's something I'd like us to look into (actually, I think I heard Neil muttering about this already). > I don't want to alienate the technical gurus, but I suspect that over the > next five years or so there will be increasing numbers of people in the same > situation that I am. So if you are looking for ways to promote SLUG, that's > my two cents' worth. Right now it all seems very technical and insular. *checks timestamp* No, this really was written today. It's interesting you say that, because we've already lost a lot of the Old Guard for precisely this reason - they feel we've drifted too far in this direction for them to be interested any more. The message I get from this is that we are currently trying to serve a very diverse audience, and failing to serve any of it very well. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On Fri, 2010-04-02 at 21:10 +1100, Peter Chubb wrote: > And I'm happy to give a talk on Bourne shell scripting --- but I'd > rather stick tothe POSIX subset than go into all the Bash extensions... Oh, gee whiz. That means you have to leave out all the horrible things you can do to co-workers with $PROMPT_COMMAND -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
> "jon" == jon writes: jon> I'm happy to give a talk on Inkscape or OpenOffice. There's a jon> couple of other neat applications I'm happy to discuss too. But jon> it would all be very much at an introductory level. That's the jon> reason I suggested an Applications SIG, to try and bring in jon> people who are just switching over from W*ndows and want to go on jon> doing what they've been doing there. And I'm happy to give a talk on Bourne shell scripting --- but I'd rather stick tothe POSIX subset than go into all the Bash extensions... Peter C -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
I'm happy to give a talk on Inkscape or OpenOffice. There's a couple of other neat applications I'm happy to discuss too. But it would all be very much at an introductory level. That's the reason I suggested an Applications SIG, to try and bring in people who are just switching over from W*ndows and want to go on doing what they've been doing there. Jon. John Ferlito wrote: On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 12:10:38PM +1100, meryl wrote: * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed * Distros compared and evaluated * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, tablets, multiple screens * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple * OpenOffice techniques and macros * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques In addition to the above, (a very good list Jon!) I'd also like to see basic/beginning Python, basic/beginning Rails/Ruby, & troubleshooting problems; i.e. using run levels, wireless setup etc... So this is a very good list of talks. But who is going to volunteer to give them? -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
FYI: PLUG has had similar discussions and similar issues. It may be worthwhile having the bodies discuss things informally to see what ideas can be brainstormed. On Fri, Apr 02, 2010, meryl wrote: > On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:14:03 +1100 > jon wrote: > > > 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online > > Yes, I'd become a member if I could do it online or via snail mail. > > > 2. Take advantage of the increasing interest in Linux on the desktop > > by setting up an Applications SIG and/or focussing on applications at > > some events. ... So most of the talks and > > events scheduled by SLUG hold no interest for me. > > Here! Here! I totally agree, the majority of list of 2009 presented > talks appeared to be waaay too techy to entice me to come along and > SLUGlets talks appear to be too short to offer anything substantial > to take away & use. I raised this same issue about a year ago (iirc), & > I mentioned that LUV's plans for Software Freedom Day > http://softwarefreedomday.org/melb looked like a very appealing program > of talks and workshops & that I'd be really keen to see something like > that organised on a regular basis, at SLUG-meets, for us Sydney-siders. > > > * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed > > * Distros compared and evaluated > > * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, > > tablets, multiple screens > > * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple > > * OpenOffice techniques and macros > > * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques > > In addition to the above, (a very good list Jon!) I'd also like to see > basic/beginning Python, basic/beginning Rails/Ruby, & troubleshooting > problems; i.e. using run levels, wireless setup etc... > > cheers, > Meryl > -- > SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ > Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html -- - Xenion - http://www.xenion.com.au/ - VPS Hosting - Commercial Squid Support - - $24/pm+GST entry-level VPSes w/ capped bandwidth charges available in WA - -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 12:10:38PM +1100, meryl wrote: > > * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed > > * Distros compared and evaluated > > * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, > > tablets, multiple screens > > * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple > > * OpenOffice techniques and macros > > * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques > > In addition to the above, (a very good list Jon!) I'd also like to see > basic/beginning Python, basic/beginning Rails/Ruby, & troubleshooting > problems; i.e. using run levels, wireless setup etc... So this is a very good list of talks. But who is going to volunteer to give them? The problem SLUG has had over the last few years is that we have had a new influx of "users" rather than the old band of "techies". The problem as I see it though is that only the "techies" are willing to actually present. The SLUG committee I'm sure would take up any of the suggested topics in a heart beat if anyone was prepared to present them. So I suppose I would call out to the new crowd of "users" that have joined SLUG in the last few years. If you want to make SLUG more relevant for you then you need to actually stand up and become a part of it. Things you can do * Run for the committee * Help the committee run meetings but most importantly offer to give a talk at slug. Even if it is just a 10 minute talk on a cool feature you just discovered in Inkscape last week. Cheers, John -- John Blog http://www.inodes.org LCA2010 http://www.lca2010.org.nz -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
Heracles wrote:
> Alan L Tyree wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:38:35 +1100
>> Heracles wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> {note to Jon: forget Scribus, it still crashes regularly. I have been
>>> trying to use the "stable" version to produce a magazine I write for
>>> another computer club and had to go back to using OOo as Scribus
>>> crashed almost every time I tried to use the story editor to change
>>> the text a little. It needs a lot more development to be usable.}
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> What version of Scribus are you using? I have used it a fair amount,
>> but always the ScribusNG package. I have never had any problem with it
>> at all. First on Debian Lenny, recently on Debian Squeeze. A quick look
>> at the Ubuntu forums didn't turn up any recent complaints about crashes.
>>
>> Also, the Scribus website has just announced a bug-fix version 1.3.6.
>>
>> Since LyX/LaTeX have usually been sufficient for my publishing
>> needs, I have never been a heavy user of it, so maybe I just haven't hit
>> the wall. Still, seems surprising to me since I have had very good
>> results when I have used it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alan
>>
>>
> Hi Alan,
> Version is 1.3.3.14(Stable)
> I'll upgrade to 1.3.6 and see if that helps. My magazine is 24 pages, so
> it should not be a problem for even a simple DTP.
> Thanks
> Heracles
>
Just finished the download. I'll see how it goes. Funny thing happened,
I was able to run two instances of Synaptic both downloading different
programs in different windows simultaneously. It usually won't allow this.
Heracles
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Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 08:14:03 +1100 jon wrote: > 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online Yes, I'd become a member if I could do it online or via snail mail. > 2. Take advantage of the increasing interest in Linux on the desktop > by setting up an Applications SIG and/or focussing on applications at > some events. ... So most of the talks and > events scheduled by SLUG hold no interest for me. Here! Here! I totally agree, the majority of list of 2009 presented talks appeared to be waaay too techy to entice me to come along and SLUGlets talks appear to be too short to offer anything substantial to take away & use. I raised this same issue about a year ago (iirc), & I mentioned that LUV's plans for Software Freedom Day http://softwarefreedomday.org/melb looked like a very appealing program of talks and workshops & that I'd be really keen to see something like that organised on a regular basis, at SLUG-meets, for us Sydney-siders. > * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed > * Distros compared and evaluated > * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, > tablets, multiple screens > * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple > * OpenOffice techniques and macros > * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques In addition to the above, (a very good list Jon!) I'd also like to see basic/beginning Python, basic/beginning Rails/Ruby, & troubleshooting problems; i.e. using run levels, wireless setup etc... cheers, Meryl -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 10:49:41 +1100
Heracles wrote:
> Alan L Tyree wrote:
> > On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:38:35 +1100
> > Heracles wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> {note to Jon: forget Scribus, it still crashes regularly. I have
> >> been trying to use the "stable" version to produce a magazine I
> >> write for another computer club and had to go back to using OOo as
> >> Scribus crashed almost every time I tried to use the story editor
> >> to change the text a little. It needs a lot more development to be
> >> usable.}
> >>
> >>
> >
> > What version of Scribus are you using? I have used it a fair amount,
> > but always the ScribusNG package. I have never had any problem with
> > it at all. First on Debian Lenny, recently on Debian Squeeze. A
> > quick look at the Ubuntu forums didn't turn up any recent
> > complaints about crashes.
> >
> > Also, the Scribus website has just announced a bug-fix version
> > 1.3.6.
> >
> > Since LyX/LaTeX have usually been sufficient for my publishing
> > needs, I have never been a heavy user of it, so maybe I just
> > haven't hit the wall. Still, seems surprising to me since I have
> > had very good results when I have used it.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Alan
> >
> Hi Alan,
> Version is 1.3.3.14(Stable)
> I'll upgrade to 1.3.6 and see if that helps. My magazine is 24 pages,
> so it should not be a problem for even a simple DTP.
I don't know what version I was using on Lenny. The Squeeze version is
1.3.5 and it has always behaved -- but as I said, I have never pushed
it hard, just a few pages. If it can't handle 24 pages then something
is seriously wrong!
> Thanks
> Heracles
>
> --
> SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
> Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
>
--
Alan L Tyreehttp://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel: 04 2748 6206
--
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Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
jon wrote: "As of March, we have 37 financial members. This represents a decline from 51 members twelve months ago. I suspect that this is merely due to inadequate promotion on our part. A challenge we currently face is presenting a good reason to become a member. Other than voting rights and a warm and fuzzy feeling, the benefit is admittedly minimal." I don't know if this is the place to raise this, but as a new member I can think of two things that might help: 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online -- or even by snailmail -- rather than having to physically attend a meeting (right now, for instance, I'm not a member because I don't get into town when the meetings are on). It's like donating to FOSS developers - you don't have to do it, but equally the contributors didn't have to put their time in to coding. It's a way of paying back to the community - *especially* for non-coders. Having said that, I'm not a member because I don't often go to meetings, so having an on-line payment option would definitely make it more likely that I would contribute by becoming a paid-up member. What would I like to see? For starters: * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed I'm definitely a fan of the idea of workshopping applications - for instance I've just given up on Linux video editors and returned to my Macintosh. I would rather pay SLUG membership (including workshopping applications like Kdenlive), than pay Apple for Final Cut. As a side benefit, I imagine workshops like that would become de-facto beta testing fests. * Distros compared and evaluated * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, tablets, multiple screens * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple * OpenOffice techniques and macros * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques * Occasional discussions of games and multimedia software * Giveaways? Door prizes of distro DVDs? Free or discounted technical assistance to members? SLUG wallpapers and themes? I don't want to alienate the technical gurus, but I suspect that over the next five years or so there will be increasing numbers of people in the same situation that I am. So if you are looking for ways to promote SLUG, that's my two cents' worth. Right now it all seems very technical and insular. I think the technical side is really important. It's the "insular" that's potentially a problem. Jon. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
Alan L Tyree wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:38:35 +1100
> Heracles wrote:
>
>
>
>> {note to Jon: forget Scribus, it still crashes regularly. I have been
>> trying to use the "stable" version to produce a magazine I write for
>> another computer club and had to go back to using OOo as Scribus
>> crashed almost every time I tried to use the story editor to change
>> the text a little. It needs a lot more development to be usable.}
>>
>>
>
> What version of Scribus are you using? I have used it a fair amount,
> but always the ScribusNG package. I have never had any problem with it
> at all. First on Debian Lenny, recently on Debian Squeeze. A quick look
> at the Ubuntu forums didn't turn up any recent complaints about crashes.
>
> Also, the Scribus website has just announced a bug-fix version 1.3.6.
>
> Since LyX/LaTeX have usually been sufficient for my publishing
> needs, I have never been a heavy user of it, so maybe I just haven't hit
> the wall. Still, seems surprising to me since I have had very good
> results when I have used it.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan
>
Hi Alan,
Version is 1.3.3.14(Stable)
I'll upgrade to 1.3.6 and see if that helps. My magazine is 24 pages, so
it should not be a problem for even a simple DTP.
Thanks
Heracles
--
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Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On Fri, 02 Apr 2010 09:38:35 +1100
Heracles wrote:
> {note to Jon: forget Scribus, it still crashes regularly. I have been
> trying to use the "stable" version to produce a magazine I write for
> another computer club and had to go back to using OOo as Scribus
> crashed almost every time I tried to use the story editor to change
> the text a little. It needs a lot more development to be usable.}
>
What version of Scribus are you using? I have used it a fair amount,
but always the ScribusNG package. I have never had any problem with it
at all. First on Debian Lenny, recently on Debian Squeeze. A quick look
at the Ubuntu forums didn't turn up any recent complaints about crashes.
Also, the Scribus website has just announced a bug-fix version 1.3.6.
Since LyX/LaTeX have usually been sufficient for my publishing
needs, I have never been a heavy user of it, so maybe I just haven't hit
the wall. Still, seems surprising to me since I have had very good
results when I have used it.
Cheers,
Alan
> Heracles
>
>
> PS. WHo is the treasurer now and can I organise to pay my subs online
> please?
> --
> SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
> Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
>
--
Alan L Tyreehttp://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel: 04 2748 6206
--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
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Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On Fri, Apr 2, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Heracles wrote: > PS. WHo is the treasurer now and can I organise to pay my subs online > please? http://slug.org.au/contacts.html Neil Davenport -- Harrison Conlin -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
On Fri, Apr 02, 2010 at 08:14:03AM +1100, jon wrote: > I don't know if this is the place to raise this, but as a new member I > can think of two things that might help: It's good. It's been weighing on my mind too. > 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online -- or even by > snailmail -- rather than having to physically attend a meeting (right > now, for instance, I'm not a member because I don't get into town when > the meetings are on). Absolutely. I think membership should be completely automated, online. No handling of cash, no hand-writing receipts. It's an efficiency thing, and it's often more convenient to pay money online. > 2. Take advantage of the increasing interest in Linux on the desktop by > setting up an Applications SIG and/or focussing on applications at some > events. Sure. My 2c: I think that the first duty of a LUG is to promote use of Linux. So I'd like to see events for interested non-users, installfests and other promotional activities. > --- > Australia's leading Linux applications trainer. > http://www.learnubuntu.com.au Plus mutually beneficial co-operation with related organisations. Nick. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
Re: [SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
jon wrote:
> "As of March, we have 37 financial members. This represents a decline
> from 51 members twelve months ago. I suspect that this is merely due
> to inadequate promotion on our part. A challenge we currently face is
> presenting a good reason to become a member. Other than voting rights
> and a warm and fuzzy feeling, the benefit is admittedly minimal."
>
> I don't know if this is the place to raise this, but as a new member I
> can think of two things that might help:
>
> 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online -- or even
> by snailmail -- rather than having to physically attend a meeting
> (right now, for instance, I'm not a member because I don't get into
> town when the meetings are on).
>
>
>
> Jon.
>
In this area I must agree with Jon, I have been a financial member of
SLUG from the day we decided to have a financial membership and have
been a regular attender until a relatively recently when SLUG moved
about a bit. (I like the new venue by the way) I would love to be able
to stay a financial member and being able to pay my annual subs online
would be great as I was unable to make the AGM.
Also, SLUG should consider producing a magazine for members filled with
articles from members including tutorials, reviews of open source
software and code snippets, updates on what members are working on and
some basics. It could become a benefit of membership. It could be
emailed as a pdf to financial members at their slug.org.au email address.
{note to Jon: forget Scribus, it still crashes regularly. I have been
trying to use the "stable" version to produce a magazine I write for
another computer club and had to go back to using OOo as Scribus crashed
almost every time I tried to use the story editor to change the text a
little. It needs a lot more development to be usable.}
Heracles
PS. WHo is the treasurer now and can I organise to pay my subs online
please?
--
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[SLUG] SLUG Membership decline
"As of March, we have 37 financial members. This represents a decline from 51 members twelve months ago. I suspect that this is merely due to inadequate promotion on our part. A challenge we currently face is presenting a good reason to become a member. Other than voting rights and a warm and fuzzy feeling, the benefit is admittedly minimal." I don't know if this is the place to raise this, but as a new member I can think of two things that might help: 1. Make it possible to obtain and renew membership online -- or even by snailmail -- rather than having to physically attend a meeting (right now, for instance, I'm not a member because I don't get into town when the meetings are on). 2. Take advantage of the increasing interest in Linux on the desktop by setting up an Applications SIG and/or focussing on applications at some events. I'm a great fan of Linux and a full-time user, and I want it to succeed as much as anyone, but my interest in programming is virtually nil. As a home user there's no need for me to know about security, I really don't want to build or fix my own computer, and I spent the first five years of my career in computing getting as far away from the command line as possible. So most of the talks and events scheduled by SLUG hold no interest for me. What would I like to see? For starters: * New and upgraded applications demonstrated and discussed * Distros compared and evaluated * Using Linux with various peripherals -- scanners, printers, tablets, multiple screens * Bash programming techniques -- but keeping it simple * OpenOffice techniques and macros * GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus techniques * Occasional discussions of games and multimedia software * Giveaways? Door prizes of distro DVDs? Free or discounted technical assistance to members? SLUG wallpapers and themes? I don't want to alienate the technical gurus, but I suspect that over the next five years or so there will be increasing numbers of people in the same situation that I am. So if you are looking for ways to promote SLUG, that's my two cents' worth. Right now it all seems very technical and insular. Jon. -- --- Australia's leading Linux applications trainer. http://www.learnubuntu.com.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html
