Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Jake Anderson]

Probably because it was a low power board in the first place.

On 22/10/12 17:25, Edwin Humphries wrote:

Jake,

THanks for the correction - it's good to learn. Enabling ErP features 
has killed WOL on any system I've seen, but that's clearly not every 
system available.


NetSense Computers logo Regards,
Edwin Humphries
Mobile: 0419 233 051
View Edwin Humphries's profile on LinkedIn 


NetSense Computers
79 Barney St, Kiama, NSW, 2533
Phone/Fax: +61 (0)2 4233 2285
Web: http://www.netsensecomputers.com.au


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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Edwin Humphries]

Jake,

THanks for the correction - it's good to learn. Enabling ErP features 
has killed WOL on any system I've seen, but that's clearly not every 
system available.


NetSense Computers logo Regards,
Edwin Humphries
Mobile: 0419 233 051
View Edwin Humphries's profile on LinkedIn 


NetSense Computers
79 Barney St, Kiama, NSW, 2533
Phone/Fax: +61 (0)2 4233 2285
Web: http://www.netsensecomputers.com.au

Like us on  Find us on  Tweet us on
Facebook 
 
	LinkedIn 
 
Twitter 


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please delete it and notify the sender.

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"/At every moment he beholdeth a wondrous world, a new creation, and 
goeth from astonishment to astonishment, and is lost in awe at the works 
of the Lord of Oneness./" Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys
"./.. humans are interesting. With all the wonders there are in the 
Universe, they invented boredom./" Terry Pratchet, Hogfather
"/The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is 
the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a 
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as 
good as dead: his eyes are closed./" Albert Einstein
/"Stuff your eyes with wonder ... live as if you'd drop dead in ten 
seconds. See the world. It's more fantastic than any dream made or paid 
for in factories./" Ray Bradbury


On 22/10/2012 5:11 PM, Jake Anderson wrote:

Small correction, it doesn't *always* disable the "wake on" stuff.
I have one with those bits that will wake on lan and wake on timer, 
pulls 1.2W from the wall when its "off" but i dont know how accurate 
my measuring widget is.



On 22/10/12 14:50, Edwin Humphries wrote:

Oops, sorry; I'll correct that!

NetSense Computers logo Regards,
Edwin Humphries
Mobile: 0419 233 051
View Edwin Humphries's profile on LinkedIn 


NetSense Computers
79 Barney St, Kiama, NSW, 2533
Phone/Fax: +61 (0)2 4233 2285
Web: http://www.netsensecomputers.com.au

Like us on Find us on Tweet us on
Facebook 
 
LinkedIn 
 
Twitter 


--
This email is intended for the named addressee/s only and may contain 
confidential or privileged information. If you are not a named 
addressee please delete it and notify the sender.

--

"/At every moment he beholdeth a wondrous world, a new creation, and 
goeth from astonishment to astonishment, and is lost in awe at the 
works of the Lord of Oneness./" Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys
"./.. humans are interesting. With all the wonders there are in the 
Universe, they invented boredom./" Terry Pratchet, Hogfather
"/The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is 
the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion 
is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in 
awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed./" Albert Einstein
/"Stuff your eyes with wonder ... live as if you'd drop dead in ten 
seconds. See the world. It's more fantastic than any dream made or 
paid for in factories./" Ray Bradbury


On 22/10/2012 2:29 PM, Marghanita da Cruz wrote:

Thanks!

Did you mean to send this just to me?

I think others on the list would be interested...

Marghanita
Edwin Humphries wrote:


That is true of almost all computers; desktops tend to draw around 
15W when "off". That's because various components on the 
motherboard are kept alive (frequently, for example, the LAN port 
- some even have the LAN LED on when "off") and the start-up 
circuits have to be energise to allow the momentary-action 
push-button to turn the PC on.


That's what the EU directive ErP/EuP is about: reducing what is the 
hardware (not software) standby power consumption. In ErP/EuP 1, it 
was specified as 1W, in ErP/EuP 2, 0.5W. But in order to achieve 
this, both the motherboard (and any expansion cards, presumably) 
and the power supply must be ErP/EuP compliant, and ErP/EuP 
features must be enabled in BIOS. This will disable features such 
as WOL or wake on alarm.


NetSense Computers logo Regards,
Edwin Humphries
Mobile: 0419 233 051
View Edwin Humphries's profile on LinkedIn 


NetSense Computers
79 Barney St, Kiama, NSW, 2533
Phone/Fax: +61 (0)2 4233 2285
Web: http://www.netsensecomputers.com.au

Like us on Find us on Tweet us on
Facebook  
 LinkedIn 

Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Jake Anderson]

Small correction, it doesn't *always* disable the "wake on" stuff.
I have one with those bits that will wake on lan and wake on timer, 
pulls 1.2W from the wall when its "off" but i dont know how accurate my 
measuring widget is.



On 22/10/12 14:50, Edwin Humphries wrote:

Oops, sorry; I'll correct that!

NetSense Computers logo Regards,
Edwin Humphries
Mobile: 0419 233 051
View Edwin Humphries's profile on LinkedIn 


NetSense Computers
79 Barney St, Kiama, NSW, 2533
Phone/Fax: +61 (0)2 4233 2285
Web: http://www.netsensecomputers.com.au

Like us on Find us on Tweet us on
Facebook 
 
LinkedIn 
 
Twitter 


--
This email is intended for the named addressee/s only and may contain 
confidential or privileged information. If you are not a named 
addressee please delete it and notify the sender.

--

"/At every moment he beholdeth a wondrous world, a new creation, and 
goeth from astonishment to astonishment, and is lost in awe at the 
works of the Lord of Oneness./" Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys
"./.. humans are interesting. With all the wonders there are in the 
Universe, they invented boredom./" Terry Pratchet, Hogfather
"/The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is 
the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is 
a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, 
is as good as dead: his eyes are closed./" Albert Einstein
/"Stuff your eyes with wonder ... live as if you'd drop dead in ten 
seconds. See the world. It's more fantastic than any dream made or 
paid for in factories./" Ray Bradbury


On 22/10/2012 2:29 PM, Marghanita da Cruz wrote:

Thanks!

Did you mean to send this just to me?

I think others on the list would be interested...

Marghanita
Edwin Humphries wrote:


That is true of almost all computers; desktops tend to draw around 
15W when "off". That's because various components on the motherboard 
are kept alive (frequently, for example, the LAN port - some even 
have the LAN LED on when "off") and the start-up circuits have to be 
energise to allow the momentary-action push-button to turn the PC on.


That's what the EU directive ErP/EuP is about: reducing what is the 
hardware (not software) standby power consumption. In ErP/EuP 1, it 
was specified as 1W, in ErP/EuP 2, 0.5W. But in order to achieve 
this, both the motherboard (and any expansion cards, presumably) and 
the power supply must be ErP/EuP compliant, and ErP/EuP features 
must be enabled in BIOS. This will disable features such as WOL or 
wake on alarm.


NetSense Computers logo Regards,
Edwin Humphries
Mobile: 0419 233 051
View Edwin Humphries's profile on LinkedIn 


NetSense Computers
79 Barney St, Kiama, NSW, 2533
Phone/Fax: +61 (0)2 4233 2285
Web: http://www.netsensecomputers.com.au

Like us on Find us on Tweet us on
Facebook  
 LinkedIn 
 
Twitter 


--
This email is intended for the named addressee/s only and may 
contain confidential or privileged information. If you are not a 
named addressee please delete it and notify the sender.

--

"/At every moment he beholdeth a wondrous world, a new creation, and 
goeth from astonishment to astonishment, and is lost in awe at the 
works of the Lord of Oneness./"Â Â Â Â Â Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys
"./.. humans are interesting. With all the wonders there are in the 
Universe, they invented boredom./"Â Â Â Â Â Terry Pratchet, Hogfather
"/The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It 
is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this 
emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand 
rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed./"Â Â Â Â Â 
Albert Einstein
/"Stuff your eyes with wonder ... live as if you'd drop dead in ten 
seconds. See the world. It's more fantastic than any dream made or 
paid for in factories./"Â Â Â Â Â Ray Bradbury


On 22/10/2012 9:36 AM, Marghanita da Cruz wrote:

Marghanita da Cruz wrote:

Jake Anderson wrote:

I don't know who is saying desktop pc's are pulling 12W but I 
haven't seen a system that will pull that from the wall outside a 
laptop.



On 18/10/12 20:51, Jeremy Visser wrote:

On 18/10/12 10:58, David Lyon wrote:

In the last few days, I've been reading studies showing that
average power consumption of a PC is about 12W. Which
is not incredibly high.
Makes me wonder how much 
I’m 
killing the planet with the 700W power

supply in my PC.




Anecdotally 

Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Edwin Humphries]

Oops, sorry; I'll correct that!

NetSense Computers logo Regards,
Edwin Humphries
Mobile: 0419 233 051
View Edwin Humphries's profile on LinkedIn 


NetSense Computers
79 Barney St, Kiama, NSW, 2533
Phone/Fax: +61 (0)2 4233 2285
Web: http://www.netsensecomputers.com.au

Like us on  Find us on  Tweet us on
Facebook 
 
	LinkedIn 
 
Twitter 


--
This email is intended for the named addressee/s only and may contain 
confidential or privileged information. If you are not a named addressee 
please delete it and notify the sender.

--

"/At every moment he beholdeth a wondrous world, a new creation, and 
goeth from astonishment to astonishment, and is lost in awe at the works 
of the Lord of Oneness./" Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys
"./.. humans are interesting. With all the wonders there are in the 
Universe, they invented boredom./" Terry Pratchet, Hogfather
"/The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is 
the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a 
stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as 
good as dead: his eyes are closed./" Albert Einstein
/"Stuff your eyes with wonder ... live as if you'd drop dead in ten 
seconds. See the world. It's more fantastic than any dream made or paid 
for in factories./" Ray Bradbury


On 22/10/2012 2:29 PM, Marghanita da Cruz wrote:

Thanks!

Did you mean to send this just to me?

I think others on the list would be interested...

Marghanita
Edwin Humphries wrote:


That is true of almost all computers; desktops tend to draw around 
15W when "off". That's because various components on the motherboard 
are kept alive (frequently, for example,  the LAN port - some even 
have the LAN LED on when "off") and the start-up circuits have to be 
energise to allow the momentary-action push-button to turn the PC on.


That's what the EU directive ErP/EuP is about: reducing what is the 
hardware (not software) standby power consumption. In ErP/EuP 1, it 
was specified as 1W, in ErP/EuP 2, 0.5W. But in order to achieve 
this, both the motherboard (and any expansion cards, presumably) and 
the power supply must be ErP/EuP compliant, and ErP/EuP features must 
be enabled in BIOS. This will disable features such as WOL or wake on 
alarm.


NetSense Computers logo Regards,
Edwin Humphries
Mobile: 0419 233 051
View Edwin Humphries's profile on LinkedIn 


NetSense Computers
79 Barney St, Kiama, NSW, 2533
Phone/Fax: +61 (0)2 4233 2285
Web: http://www.netsensecomputers.com.au

Like us on Find us on Tweet us on
Facebook  
 LinkedIn 
 
Twitter 


--
This email is intended for the named addressee/s only and may contain 
confidential or privileged information. If you are not a named 
addressee please delete it and notify the sender.

--

"/At every moment he beholdeth a wondrous world, a new creation, and 
goeth from astonishment to astonishment, and is lost in awe at the 
works of the Lord of Oneness./"Â Â Â Â Â Baha'u'llah, The Seven Valleys
"./.. humans are interesting. With all the wonders there are in the 
Universe, they invented boredom./"Â Â Â Â Â Terry Pratchet, Hogfather
"/The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is 
the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion 
is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in 
awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed./"Â Â Â Â Â Albert Einstein
/"Stuff your eyes with wonder ... live as if you'd drop dead in ten 
seconds. See the world. It's more fantastic than any dream made or 
paid for in factories./"Â Â Â Â Â Ray Bradbury


On 22/10/2012 9:36 AM, Marghanita da Cruz wrote:

Marghanita da Cruz wrote:

Jake Anderson wrote:

I don't know who is saying desktop pc's are pulling 12W but I 
haven't seen a system that will pull that from the wall outside a 
laptop.



On 18/10/12 20:51, Jeremy Visser wrote:

On 18/10/12 10:58, David Lyon wrote:

In the last few days, I've been reading studies showing that
average power consumption of a PC is about 12W. Which
is not incredibly high.
Makes me wonder how much 
I’m 
killing the planet with the 700W power

supply in my PC.




Anecdotally (no calibration of the Meter):

My AL511 Acer Monitor is pulling 7watt on standby and 22-24W in use.
Router/USB 3G Dongle isn't registering.

The Laptop running with battery, external keyboard and mouse,  
plugged into

power supply is pull

Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Chris Barnes wrote:

I'm curious to know which processor and disk you've got in your laptop


It's pretty "old" - spec is documented here:


Marghanita


On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Marghanita da Cruz 
wrote:



Jake Anderson wrote:



I don't know who is saying desktop pc's are pulling 12W but I haven't
seen a system that will pull that from the wall outside a laptop.





On 18/10/12 20:51, Jeremy Visser wrote:


On 18/10/12 10:58, David Lyon wrote:


In the last few days, I've been reading studies showing that
average power consumption of a PC is about 12W. Which
is not incredibly high.


Makes me wonder how much 
I’m
 killing the planet
with the 700W power
supply in my PC.



 Anecdotally (no calibration of the Meter):

My AL511 Acer Monitor is pulling 7watt on standby and 22-24W in use.
Router/USB 3G Dongle isn't registering.

The Laptop running with battery, external keyboard and mouse,  plugged into
power supply is pulling 14-19W.

It is worth noting, that to maximise battery operation, a lot of research
and
development has gone into developing energy efficient laptops.

I also buy the maximum RAM available, when I purchase any computer.

Removing the Battery and running off mains power, the Netbook is
drawing 17W, it spiked to 24W when the fan came on but returned
to 17W (with fan still on, while I wrote this email).

The power use rose to 19 W, with a spike to 24W, when I fired up firefox.

When I opened up Open Office, it spiked to 24W then dropped back to 17,
then back to 19W.

Firing up GIMP it goes spiked at 22W.

Opening a document in the PDF viewer - the energy use spiked to 26W, before
dropping back to 17W

Loading ramin.com.au the power use is fluctuatint between 17-19W, for
slug.org.au 17-22W.
nsw.gov.au 19-24W

Writing this email, with Firefox, GIMP, PDF viewer and Open office running
in background,
fan came on and electricity use is fluctuating between 17-19W.


Marghanita
--
Marghanita da Cruz
Ramin Communications (Sydney)
Website: http://ramin.com.au
Phone:(+612) 0414-869202
---
Eco-Annandale 2012 on the Theme of Energy
http://ramin.com.au/annandale/**eco-annandale-2012






--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
Subscription info and FAQs: 
http://slug.org.au/faq/**mailinglists.html








--
Marghanita da Cruz
Ramin Communications (Sydney)
Website: http://ramin.com.au
Phone:(+612) 0414-869202
---
Eco-Annandale 2012 on the Theme of Energy
http://ramin.com.au/annandale/eco-annandale-2012




--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html

Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Chris Barnes]

I'm curious to know which processor and disk you've got in your laptop

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Marghanita da Cruz  wrote:

> Jake Anderson wrote:
> 
>
>> I don't know who is saying desktop pc's are pulling 12W but I haven't
>> seen a system that will pull that from the wall outside a laptop.
>>
> 
>
>> On 18/10/12 20:51, Jeremy Visser wrote:
>>
>>> On 18/10/12 10:58, David Lyon wrote:
>>>
 In the last few days, I've been reading studies showing that
 average power consumption of a PC is about 12W. Which
 is not incredibly high.

>>> Makes me wonder how much I’m killing the planet
>>> with the 700W power
>>> supply in my PC.
>>>
>>>
>>  Anecdotally (no calibration of the Meter):
>
> My AL511 Acer Monitor is pulling 7watt on standby and 22-24W in use.
> Router/USB 3G Dongle isn't registering.
>
> The Laptop running with battery, external keyboard and mouse,  plugged into
> power supply is pulling 14-19W.
>
> It is worth noting, that to maximise battery operation, a lot of research
> and
> development has gone into developing energy efficient laptops.
>
> I also buy the maximum RAM available, when I purchase any computer.
>
> Removing the Battery and running off mains power, the Netbook is
> drawing 17W, it spiked to 24W when the fan came on but returned
> to 17W (with fan still on, while I wrote this email).
>
> The power use rose to 19 W, with a spike to 24W, when I fired up firefox.
>
> When I opened up Open Office, it spiked to 24W then dropped back to 17,
> then back to 19W.
>
> Firing up GIMP it goes spiked at 22W.
>
> Opening a document in the PDF viewer - the energy use spiked to 26W, before
> dropping back to 17W
>
> Loading ramin.com.au the power use is fluctuatint between 17-19W, for
> slug.org.au 17-22W.
> nsw.gov.au 19-24W
>
> Writing this email, with Firefox, GIMP, PDF viewer and Open office running
> in background,
> fan came on and electricity use is fluctuating between 17-19W.
>
>
> Marghanita
> --
> Marghanita da Cruz
> Ramin Communications (Sydney)
> Website: http://ramin.com.au
> Phone:(+612) 0414-869202
> ---
> Eco-Annandale 2012 on the Theme of Energy
> http://ramin.com.au/annandale/**eco-annandale-2012
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
> Subscription info and FAQs: 
> http://slug.org.au/faq/**mailinglists.html
>



-- 
Kind Regards,

Christopher Barnes

e. chris.p.bar...@gmail.com
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Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html

Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Marghanita da Cruz wrote:

Jake Anderson wrote:

I don't know who is saying desktop pc's are pulling 12W but I haven't 
seen a system that will pull that from the wall outside a laptop.



On 18/10/12 20:51, Jeremy Visser wrote:

On 18/10/12 10:58, David Lyon wrote:

In the last few days, I've been reading studies showing that
average power consumption of a PC is about 12W. Which
is not incredibly high.
Makes me wonder how much 
I’m killing the planet 
with the 700W power

supply in my PC.




Anecdotally (no calibration of the Meter):

My AL511 Acer Monitor is pulling 7watt on standby and 22-24W in use.
Router/USB 3G Dongle isn't registering.

The Laptop running with battery, external keyboard and mouse,  plugged into
power supply is pulling 14-19W.

It is worth noting, that to maximise battery operation, a lot of 
research and

development has gone into developing energy efficient laptops.

I also buy the maximum RAM available, when I purchase any computer.

Removing the Battery and running off mains power, the Netbook is
drawing 17W, it spiked to 24W when the fan came on but returned
to 17W (with fan still on, while I wrote this email).

The power use rose to 19 W, with a spike to 24W, when I fired up firefox.

When I opened up Open Office, it spiked to 24W then dropped back to 17,
then back to 19W.

Firing up GIMP it goes spiked at 22W.

Opening a document in the PDF viewer - the energy use spiked to 26W, before
dropping back to 17W

Loading ramin.com.au the power use is fluctuatint between 17-19W, for
slug.org.au 17-22W.
nsw.gov.au 19-24W

Writing this email, with Firefox, GIMP, PDF viewer and Open office running
in background,
fan came on and electricity use is fluctuating between 17-19W.

Marghanita


cuiously, when the laptop is shutdown, it still draws 7W!

--
Marghanita da Cruz
Ramin Communications (Sydney)
Website: http://ramin.com.au
Phone:(+612) 0414-869202
---
Eco-Annandale 2012 on the Theme of Energy
http://ramin.com.au/annandale/eco-annandale-2012


--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html

Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Jake Anderson wrote:

I don't know who is saying desktop pc's are pulling 12W but I haven't 
seen a system that will pull that from the wall outside a laptop.



On 18/10/12 20:51, Jeremy Visser wrote:

On 18/10/12 10:58, David Lyon wrote:

In the last few days, I've been reading studies showing that
average power consumption of a PC is about 12W. Which
is not incredibly high.

Makes me wonder how much I’m killing the planet with the 
700W power
supply in my PC.




Anecdotally (no calibration of the Meter):

My AL511 Acer Monitor is pulling 7watt on standby and 22-24W in use.
Router/USB 3G Dongle isn't registering.

The Laptop running with battery, external keyboard and mouse,  plugged into
power supply is pulling 14-19W.

It is worth noting, that to maximise battery operation, a lot of research and
development has gone into developing energy efficient laptops.

I also buy the maximum RAM available, when I purchase any computer.

Removing the Battery and running off mains power, the Netbook is
drawing 17W, it spiked to 24W when the fan came on but returned
to 17W (with fan still on, while I wrote this email).

The power use rose to 19 W, with a spike to 24W, when I fired up firefox.

When I opened up Open Office, it spiked to 24W then dropped back to 17,
then back to 19W.

Firing up GIMP it goes spiked at 22W.

Opening a document in the PDF viewer - the energy use spiked to 26W, before
dropping back to 17W

Loading ramin.com.au the power use is fluctuatint between 17-19W, for
slug.org.au 17-22W.
nsw.gov.au 19-24W

Writing this email, with Firefox, GIMP, PDF viewer and Open office running
in background,
fan came on and electricity use is fluctuating between 17-19W.

Marghanita
--
Marghanita da Cruz
Ramin Communications (Sydney)
Website: http://ramin.com.au
Phone:(+612) 0414-869202
---
Eco-Annandale 2012 on the Theme of Energy
http://ramin.com.au/annandale/eco-annandale-2012






--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User's Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
Subscription info and FAQs: http://slug.org.au/faq/mailinglists.html

Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Jeremy Visser]

On 20/10/2012, at 12:58 PM, Martin Visser  wrote:
> The antithesis of this is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup 
> phenomenon
> noted in the UK when the punters put on the kettle for a cuppa all at the
> same during sporting matches and such.

Which reminds me of this one, during the last Winter Olympics, where everyone 
in Edmonton, Canada, decided to flush their toilets at once:



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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Martin Visser]

Further to this and Michael's comment, by automating and  centrally
coordinating the trains you could potentially save a lot of power overall
a,d also things like peak demand. Knowing what is optimum acceleration to
meet timetable demands, as well as avoiding red lights can save a lot. Even
by staggering acceleration periods across the network could reduce peak
demand and hence restrict demand for infrastructure. (Same goes for
regenerative braking).

The antithesis of this is the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_pickup phenomenon
noted in the UK when the punters put on the kettle for a cuppa all at the
same during sporting matches and such.


Regards, Martin

martinvisse...@gmail.com


On 20 October 2012 12:42, James Linder  wrote:

>
> On 20/10/2012, at 9:00 AM, slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote:
>
> >> Its primary goal is safety though, not efficiency.
> >>
> >> I want to add a linux angle, but can't think of one.
> >>
> >>
> > The powers-that-be-here don't even want you to know what can
> > actually be achieved with Linux.
> >
> > In Tokyo they have a crazy robot train (crazy for a sydney person) that
> > runs into town and back. Anyway, you can sit where the driver would
> > normally be.
> >
> > It's fully automated, and therefore, without doubt consumes less power
> > than having a human being driving the train. I say this because an
> > industrial pc having about 5w energy consumption.
> >
> > No metal is needed for the drivers compartment, or aircon, so there's
> > definitely an energy saving there.
> >
> > The trains use a Linux RTOS like QNX. Which is very popular over there.
> >
> > The Japanese systems are very safe. They look at it the other way
> > around in that when there are deaths, it's caused by human error. Not
> > the machines. I tend to agree with their perspective.
> >
> > The issue is about Jobs. The Japanese don't mind having 10x Linux
> > Engineers in preference to 10x Train Drivers.
> >
> > In Sydney, sadly, they seemingly would prefer to have 10x train drivers
> and
> > less Linux Engineers than have the balance the other way around.
> >
> > The assertion is that Linux Engineers are dangerous and train-drivers
> > and people that ride bicycles are not. We have to accept our backwards
> > looking leaders. That's just how it is.
>
> It is linux and it is interesting ...
>
> Earthquake's generate seismic waves, the fast ones are detected and STOP
> the trains before damage to infrastructure occurs and the train is hurlled
> to it's doom. Cute!
>
> James--
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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[James Linder]

On 20/10/2012, at 9:00 AM, slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote:

>> Its primary goal is safety though, not efficiency.
>> 
>> I want to add a linux angle, but can't think of one.
>> 
>> 
> The powers-that-be-here don't even want you to know what can
> actually be achieved with Linux.
> 
> In Tokyo they have a crazy robot train (crazy for a sydney person) that
> runs into town and back. Anyway, you can sit where the driver would
> normally be.
> 
> It's fully automated, and therefore, without doubt consumes less power
> than having a human being driving the train. I say this because an
> industrial pc having about 5w energy consumption.
> 
> No metal is needed for the drivers compartment, or aircon, so there's
> definitely an energy saving there.
> 
> The trains use a Linux RTOS like QNX. Which is very popular over there.
> 
> The Japanese systems are very safe. They look at it the other way
> around in that when there are deaths, it's caused by human error. Not
> the machines. I tend to agree with their perspective.
> 
> The issue is about Jobs. The Japanese don't mind having 10x Linux
> Engineers in preference to 10x Train Drivers.
> 
> In Sydney, sadly, they seemingly would prefer to have 10x train drivers and
> less Linux Engineers than have the balance the other way around.
> 
> The assertion is that Linux Engineers are dangerous and train-drivers
> and people that ride bicycles are not. We have to accept our backwards
> looking leaders. That's just how it is.

It is linux and it is interesting ...

Earthquake's generate seismic waves, the fast ones are detected and STOP the 
trains before damage to infrastructure occurs and the train is hurlled to it's 
doom. Cute!

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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[David Lyon]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 1:57 PM, Michael Chesterton  wrote:

> Its primary goal is safety though, not efficiency.
>
> I want to add a linux angle, but can't think of one.
>
>
The powers-that-be-here don't even want you to know what can
actually be achieved with Linux.

In Tokyo they have a crazy robot train (crazy for a sydney person) that
runs into town and back. Anyway, you can sit where the driver would
normally be.

It's fully automated, and therefore, without doubt consumes less power
than having a human being driving the train. I say this because an
industrial pc having about 5w energy consumption.

No metal is needed for the drivers compartment, or aircon, so there's
definitely an energy saving there.

The trains use a Linux RTOS like QNX. Which is very popular over there.

The Japanese systems are very safe. They look at it the other way
around in that when there are deaths, it's caused by human error. Not
the machines. I tend to agree with their perspective.

The issue is about Jobs. The Japanese don't mind having 10x Linux
Engineers in preference to 10x Train Drivers.

In Sydney, sadly, they seemingly would prefer to have 10x train drivers and
less Linux Engineers than have the balance the other way around.

The assertion is that Linux Engineers are dangerous and train-drivers
and people that ride bicycles are not. We have to accept our backwards
looking leaders. That's just how it is.
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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Michael Chesterton wrote:


Sydney trains have been planning to computerise since the waterfall
accident. There will be constant monitoring of speed and position and
overrides if something goes out of whack, too fast, too close, or whatever.
Its primary goal is safety though, not efficiency.

I want to add a linux angle, but can't think of one.



Maybe Rocrail?

Rocrail is an Innovative Model Railroad Control System that runs on Linux, Mac OS X or Windows. Written in C/C++, it is based on the wxwidgets.org_images_blocks2.jpgwxWidgets class library, and is Open Source. 



But more seriously, you didn't try hard enough!
UC-8481 - New! RISC-based mobile Linux computer with cellular, Wi-Fi, and GPS modules, 2 Ethernet, 2 serial, 2 USB 2.0 ports, & 2 mini PCIe sockets 



Marghanita
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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Michael Chesterton]

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 12:43 PM, David Lyon <
david.lyon.preissh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> In fact, if anything, Sydney/NSW Governments are more adverse
> to automation and programming than other countries (say the US,
> Japan, Europe) and simply won't entertain having computer operated
> systems such as trains, cars and other things like that. Perhaps
> on the grounds that having such systems do use too much power.
>
> When in fact, precisely the reverse is true..


Sydney trains have been planning to computerise since the waterfall
accident. There will be constant monitoring of speed and position and
overrides if something goes out of whack, too fast, too close, or whatever.
Its primary goal is safety though, not efficiency.

I want to add a linux angle, but can't think of one.

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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Marghanita da Cruz]

James Linder wrote:


(laptop power 10w to 50w (say), efficiency of charger (say) 70%, efficiency of 
batteries (say) 70%)

what is worse: toxic chemicals from landfill, or toxic chemicals from power 
generation using coal ...
(most fish in the USA have mercury, that is largely from coal fired electricity)

in the gaming world it is "your move"


There is also the impact of mining for Lithium and Tantalum for Batteries
and Capacitors - which we aren't recycling enough


Marghanita
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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[James Linder]

On 19/10/2012, at 7:47 AM, slug-requ...@slug.org.au wrote:

>> In the last few days, I've been reading studies showing that
>> average power consumption of a PC is about 12W. Which
>> is not incredibly high.
> 
> Makes me wonder how much I’m killing the planet with the 700W power
> supply in my PC.

Jeremy the size of your power supply is pretty irrelevant (to your power 
consumption, ie amount of power wasted by virtue of it being available)
What does count is *what you use*
so ... lots of disks ... old cpu (that uses lots of power) ... machine working 
hard ... GRAPHICS CARDS (fancy cards use lots of power)
and cards that do not throttle back when not being used is/are significant.

All sensible stuff. So dont have fancy graphics in your 24/7 box. Use the 
wheelie bin for old disks (you can feel - they are the one's that get hot) .

Anyone who thinks that charging their lappie off peak is not an engineer who 
understands the laws of thermodynamics:

You cant win
You can't break even
You can't get out of the system

(laptop power 10w to 50w (say), efficiency of charger (say) 70%, efficiency of 
batteries (say) 70%)

what is worse: toxic chemicals from landfill, or toxic chemicals from power 
generation using coal ...
(most fish in the USA have mercury, that is largely from coal fired electricity)

in the gaming world it is "your move"
James


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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Marghanita da Cruz]

Tom Worthington wrote:

See the chapter "Energy saving - Data Centres and Client Equipment" in 
my book "ICT Sustainability: Assessment and Strategies for a Low Carbon 
Future": http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/saving.shtml


> Low-energy equipment: Select low energy component and equipment, such as 
processors, monitors, power supplies, RAM, flash memory and hard disks.



The energy use of the entire configuration as well
as the components needs to be considered.

My mantra is upsize the RAM!!! downsize the CPUs!

Marghanita
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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Marghanita da Cruz]

David Lyon wrote:


In any case just because it is rated at 700W doesn't mean that the
computer is using 700W.



Unfortunately, when it comes to power generation, it is the peak load that
needs to be catered for.

So, if on a hot day, you do a CPU hungry simulation or compile, which
causes your computer to increase its power intake and the heat it generates,
which  increases the demand on the air conditioning
and this happens all over Sydney...then we have to decide, whether something
gives or we build an even bigger power station.

Unless ofcourse, on hot days we can have the confidence or agree to rely
on an increase in Solar Energy generation to meet the peak demand.

Alternatively, we could build old fashioned fuses into our electrical circuits
to limit peak demand.


Marghanita
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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[David Lyon]

On Thu, Oct 18, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Jeremy Visser  wrote:

> Makes me wonder how much I’m killing the planet with the 700W power
> supply in my PC.
>

You won't kill the planet, on account of it having an iron core. Don't
worry.

You'd need thousands of megawatts (at least) for your power-supply
to damage the planet. You can read here to see where 700w fits into
the orders of energy magnitude scale:

 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders_of_magnitude_%28energy%29

In any case just because it is rated at 700W doesn't mean that the
computer is using 700W.

btw, 700W is about 1hp, which is the power output of a fit human
running at full speed. Or, using a metal demolition hammer to hit
the ground as hard as you can. Can't do to much damage to the
planet with a hammer like that - lol.
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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Mark Walkom]

On 19 October 2012 10:09,  wrote:

> Not many people are aware, but I was surprised, after discussing with some
> engineers a few years ago, that the physical vibrations of equipment in
> their racks can actually cause power increases and performance issues
> purely as a result of the vibrations interfering with disk seek times and
> so on. The sympathetic vibrations of the disk and media is actually
> perceptible when tests are run. As the vibrations are constant, this will
> affect the way the heads on the disk access the data. When the vibrations
> were suppressed, disk seeks improved commensurately and a noted decrease in
> power consumption and response time was noted.
>

Reminds me of this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDacjrSCeq4
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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[grove]

Not many people are aware, but I was surprised, after discussing with some engineers a few years ago, 
that the physical vibrations of equipment in their racks can actually cause power increases 
and performance issues purely as a result of the vibrations interfering with disk seek times 
and so on. The sympathetic vibrations of the disk and media is actually perceptible 
when tests are run. As the vibrations are constant, this will affect the way the heads on the 
disk access the data. When the vibrations were suppressed, disk seeks improved commensurately and a noted decrease in power consumption and response time was noted.


Multiply these factors when taking large SAN based media stores into 
consideration
and then it is clear that careful setup of servers and storage in their racks can actually 
improve performance and reduce power loads a lot mre than you would expect


And, so I do not appear to be coming from this angle as a Jonesian fact maker, 
here is some research to back it up!

http://www.dbms2.com/2010/05/08/disk-vibration-data-warehouse-performance-problem/

It is just as amazing to me, as when an engineer demonstrated SCSI reflections by 
bending a cable beyond a certain limit, whereupon all data transmission ceased.  The waveform
of the electonic stream had a period that meant it could not "bend" around the pathway made by the cable and the data just stopped moving.    I find things like this amazing because it is like 
observing some kinds of weird "quantum" behaviour you would not expect, manifesting 
in the physical world.



rachel

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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Tom Worthington]

On 18/10/12 10:02, Marghanita da Cruz wrote:


Has anyone done any work/know of any research on the effect of Tuning ICT
systems and direct energy use/indirect energy use ...


See the chapter "Energy saving - Data Centres and Client Equipment" in 
my book "ICT Sustainability: Assessment and Strategies for a Low Carbon 
Future": http://www.tomw.net.au/ict_sustainability/saving.shtml



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PO Box 13, Belconnen ACT 2617, Australia  http://www.tomw.net.au
Liability limited by a scheme approved under Professional Standards
Legislation

Adjunct Lecturer, Research School of Computer Science,
Australian National University http://cs.anu.edu.au/courses/COMP7310/
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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Jake Anderson]

just because you have a 700w psu doesn't mean you will be using 700w.
The actual load from the cpu/gpu/hdds etc combined with the efficiency 
of the power supply gives you the at the wall consumption.
Most "office" machines will pull ~60-100W depending on cpu vintage and 
work load.

gaming machine in full swing 300W+

If you want to save some power get a psu rated for efficiency
80+ bronze is a good place to start.

Also keep in mind that a 700W psu running with 50W load will be quite 
inefficient, you could be pulling 100W from the wall and burning 50 just 
heating up the psu.


My I3 tv computer pulls ~30-40W with 4HDDs,nvidia 260 gpu and a SSD in 
it, up to around 50W with all the drives spinning.
I put that together with some mind toward power consumption but not 
going nuts.


My mothers tv computer, dual core atom with 1x 2Tb hdd and onboard 9400M 
pulls 28-30W.


I don't know who is saying desktop pc's are pulling 12W but I haven't 
seen a system that will pull that from the wall outside a laptop.




On 18/10/12 20:51, Jeremy Visser wrote:

On 18/10/12 10:58, David Lyon wrote:

In the last few days, I've been reading studies showing that
average power consumption of a PC is about 12W. Which
is not incredibly high.

Makes me wonder how much I’m killing the planet with the 700W power
supply in my PC.



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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Mark Walkom]

That's a max rating, if you are running s PSU with high efficiency and low
voltage hardware (eg slower CPU/RAM, SSD), then you will be a lot better
off than owning a dual GPU, i7 gaming beast.

On 18 October 2012 20:51, Jeremy Visser  wrote:

> On 18/10/12 10:58, David Lyon wrote:
> > In the last few days, I've been reading studies showing that
> > average power consumption of a PC is about 12W. Which
> > is not incredibly high.
>
> Makes me wonder how much I’m killing the planet with the 700W power
> supply in my PC.
>
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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Jeremy Visser]

On 18/10/12 10:58, David Lyon wrote:
> In the last few days, I've been reading studies showing that
> average power consumption of a PC is about 12W. Which
> is not incredibly high.

Makes me wonder how much I’m killing the planet with the 700W power
supply in my PC.

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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[Marghanita da Cruz]

pe...@chubb.wattle.id.au wrote:

"Marghanita" == Marghanita da Cruz  writes:



Marghanita> Has anyone done any work/know of any research on the
Marghanita> effect of Tuning ICT systems and direct energy
Marghanita> use/indirect energy use (heat generation/airconditioning)?


There's been a LOT of work in this area.  A recentish paper was Joukov
and Sipek `GreenFS: Making Enterprise Computers Greener by Protecting
them Better' (Eurosys '08 pp 69--80)




Thanks found the Abstract:

Hard disks contain data - frequently an irreplaceable asset of high monetary 
and non-monetary value. At the same time, hard disks are mechanical devices 
that consume power, are noisy, and fragile when their platters are rotating.

In this paper we demonstrate that hard disks cause different kinds of problems 
for different types of computer systems and demystify several common 
misconceptions. We show that solutions developed to date are incapable of 
solving the power consumption, noise, and data reliability problems without 
sacrificing hard disk life-time, data reliability, or user convenience.

We considered data reliability, recovery, performance, user convenience, and 
hard disk-caused problems together at the enterprise scale. We have designed 
GreenFS: a fan-out stackable file system that offers all-time all-data run-time 
data protection, improves performance under typical user workloads, and allows 
hard disks to be kept off most of the time. As a result, GreenFS improves 
enterprise data protection, minimizes disk drive-related power consumption and 
noise and increases the chances of disk drive survivability in case of 
unexpected external impacts.



and Full paper at: http://lists.am-utils.org/docs/greenfs/greenfs-eurosys08.pdf

Marghanita
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Re: [SLUG] Tuning Systems and Energy Use (Sys Admin Roles and Responsibilities)

[peter]

> "Marghanita" == Marghanita da Cruz  writes:


Marghanita> Has anyone done any work/know of any research on the
Marghanita> effect of Tuning ICT systems and direct energy
Marghanita> use/indirect energy use (heat generation/airconditioning)?


There's been a LOT of work in this area.  A recentish paper was Joukov
and Sipek `GreenFS: Making Enterprise Computers Greener by Protecting
them Better' (Eurosys '08 pp 69--80)

PeterC
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