Re: Announcing Snaplint

[Spencer]

I've never written anything anyone would want to use and modify.  (My code is 
crap.)  But I can still make my code free for everyone (users and developers 
alike).  I don't even care about maintaining credit for my work.  Ha!  In fact, 
it's probably better for me to disavow it.

I'll have to review GPL again.

I'll stop now.  Sorry for all the spam.

> On Dec 9, 2016, at 2:33 AM, Julia Palandri  
> wrote:
> 
> [totally not related with the original post, but I thought I should...]
> 
>> On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 6:12 AM, Spencer Parkin  
>> wrote:
>> Ha!  :)  Yeah, I guess it would, though I have no idea what dogfooding run 
>> means.
>> 
>> GPL purports to be free, but it's not.  If a piece of software was free, you 
>> could encorporate it into your own software that you need to be proprietary. 
>>  So many times I find something I think is great and I want to use it 
>> but...oh...crap...it's GPL; can't use it.  In other words, GPL is a pain for 
>> in-house development, and it's an infectious license that spreads from one 
>> GPL project to another.  If I want to use GPL software, I have to use the 
>> GPL license, if my understanding is correct.
> 
> GPL is built that way *by design*. It protects freedom of users, not of 
> software. Developers who don't mind you taking their software and 
> distributing it along with proprietary chunks can choose LGPL as their 
> license. And, as Seth mentioned, licenses are useful when *distributing* 
> software: it's a granted permission the developer gives you without the need 
> that every person who wants to use their software go ask them what they can 
> do with it. 
> Rather than a talk with lawyers (or in addition) I feel inclined to suggest 
> some reading on fsf.org, for example :)
> I understand GPL can be a pain sometimes, but I'm very happy it exists 
> because I still get the right to read, modify and distribute that software. 
> It might not suit your needs, but I wouldn't call it a fatal error at all :)
> 
> (EOR)
>  
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:29 PM, Scott Sweeny  
>>> wrote:
>>> That would make for an interesting dogfooding run since the tool
>>> itself is GPL-3 :-)
>>> 
>>> ~S
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 07:42:36PM -0700, Spencer wrote:
>>> > Uh...but if I use your tool, then I can't claim ignorance when I'm 
>>> > getting sued for copyright violations.
>>> >
>>> > Seriously, though, I hate all the legal crap licensing causes in the 
>>> > development world.  Your tool could make life a lot easier in that 
>>> > regard, which is nice.
>>> >
>>> > BTW, the GPL is the worst license ever.  Your lint tool should flag its 
>>> > use as a fatal error.
>>> >
>>> > > On Dec 8, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Scott Sweeny  
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Hi all,
>>> > >
>>> > > I'm writing to announce a tool I've been working on to encode best
>>> > > practices for snapping software. Inspired by utilities like lintian I've
>>> > > decided to name it 'snaplint'. At this point I'd like some wider
>>> > > feedback as I try to make it more useful.
>>> > >
>>> > > Right now you can run snaplint against your snapcraft project directory
>>> > > and it will scan the prime subdirectory for the following things:
>>> > >
>>> > > * copyright (basically that you included usr/share/doc/*copyright* for
>>> > > any stage-packages
>>> > > * developer cruft (things like header and object files or static libs
>>> > > that might have made their way into your snap)
>>> > > * libraries (examine the ELF files in your snap and look for libraries
>>> > > which aren't used)
>>> > >
>>> > > The next things I'm planning on adding are:
>>> > > * checking for copyright info from apps/parts themselves.
>>> > > * checking for mixing of incompatible licenses
>>> > >
>>> > > I would love to hear suggestions from you on further improvements.
>>> > >
>>> > > You can find the source at https://github.com/ssweeny/snaplint
>>> > >
>>> > > And, of course you can try it on your own machine with
>>> > >
>>> > >$ snap install snaplint
>>> > >$ snaplint 
>>> > >
>>> > > Cheers,
>>> > > ~Scott
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Snapcraft mailing list
>>> > > Snapcraft@lists.snapcraft.io
>>> > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
>>> > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/snapcraft
>>> >
>>> > --
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>>> > Snapcraft@lists.snapcraft.io
>>> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
>>> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/snapcraft
>>> >
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Julia
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Re: Announcing Snaplint

[Julia Palandri]

[totally not related with the original post, but I thought I should...]

On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 at 6:12 AM, Spencer Parkin 
wrote:

> Ha!  :)  Yeah, I guess it would, though I have no idea what dogfooding run
> means.
>
> GPL purports to be free, but it's not.  If a piece of software was free,
> you could encorporate it into your own software that you need to be
> proprietary.  So many times I find something I think is great and I want to
> use it but...oh...crap...it's GPL; can't use it.  In other words, GPL is a
> pain for in-house development, and it's an infectious license that spreads
> from one GPL project to another.  If I want to use GPL software, I have to
> use the GPL license, if my understanding is correct.
>
>
GPL is built that way *by design*. It protects freedom of users, not of
software. Developers who don't mind you taking their software and
distributing it along with proprietary chunks can choose LGPL as their
license. And, as Seth mentioned, licenses are useful when *distributing*
software: it's a granted permission the developer gives you without the
need that every person who wants to use their software go ask them what
they can do with it.
Rather than a talk with lawyers (or in addition) I feel inclined to suggest
some reading on fsf.org, for example :)
I understand GPL can be a pain sometimes, but I'm very happy it exists
because I still get the right to read, modify and distribute that software.
It might not suit your needs, but I wouldn't call it a fatal error at all :)

(EOR)


>
>
> On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:29 PM, Scott Sweeny 
> wrote:
>
>> That would make for an interesting dogfooding run since the tool
>> itself is GPL-3 :-)
>>
>> ~S
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 07:42:36PM -0700, Spencer wrote:
>> > Uh...but if I use your tool, then I can't claim ignorance when I'm
>> getting sued for copyright violations.
>> >
>> > Seriously, though, I hate all the legal crap licensing causes in the
>> development world.  Your tool could make life a lot easier in that regard,
>> which is nice.
>> >
>> > BTW, the GPL is the worst license ever.  Your lint tool should flag its
>> use as a fatal error.
>> >
>> > > On Dec 8, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Scott Sweeny 
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > I'm writing to announce a tool I've been working on to encode best
>> > > practices for snapping software. Inspired by utilities like lintian
>> I've
>> > > decided to name it 'snaplint'. At this point I'd like some wider
>> > > feedback as I try to make it more useful.
>> > >
>> > > Right now you can run snaplint against your snapcraft project
>> directory
>> > > and it will scan the prime subdirectory for the following things:
>> > >
>> > > * copyright (basically that you included usr/share/doc/*copyright* for
>> > > any stage-packages
>> > > * developer cruft (things like header and object files or static libs
>> > > that might have made their way into your snap)
>> > > * libraries (examine the ELF files in your snap and look for libraries
>> > > which aren't used)
>> > >
>> > > The next things I'm planning on adding are:
>> > > * checking for copyright info from apps/parts themselves.
>> > > * checking for mixing of incompatible licenses
>> > >
>> > > I would love to hear suggestions from you on further improvements.
>> > >
>> > > You can find the source at https://github.com/ssweeny/snaplint
>> > >
>> > > And, of course you can try it on your own machine with
>> > >
>> > >$ snap install snaplint
>> > >$ snaplint 
>> > >
>> > > Cheers,
>> > > ~Scott
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Snapcraft mailing list
>> > > Snapcraft@lists.snapcraft.io
>> > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailm
>> an/listinfo/snapcraft
>> >
>> > --
>> > Snapcraft mailing list
>> > Snapcraft@lists.snapcraft.io
>> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailm
>> an/listinfo/snapcraft
>> >
>>
>> --
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>> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailm
>> an/listinfo/snapcraft
>>
>>
>
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>


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Re: Announcing Snaplint

[Seth Arnold]

On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 10:12:58PM -0700, Spencer Parkin wrote:
> proprietary.  So many times I find something I think is great and I want to
> use it but...oh...crap...it's GPL; can't use it.  In other words, GPL is a
> pain for in-house development, and it's an infectious license that spreads

You should talk with your team's lawyers again; it's normally understood
that the GPL's provisions on promising to provide source code for three
years only applies to people to whom you distribute binaries.

If you never distribute anything then you're under no obligation to
provide anyone with a promise of source code for three years.

Thanks


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Re: Announcing Snaplint

[Spencer Parkin]

Ha!  :)  Yeah, I guess it would, though I have no idea what dogfooding run
means.

GPL purports to be free, but it's not.  If a piece of software was free,
you could encorporate it into your own software that you need to be
proprietary.  So many times I find something I think is great and I want to
use it but...oh...crap...it's GPL; can't use it.  In other words, GPL is a
pain for in-house development, and it's an infectious license that spreads
from one GPL project to another.  If I want to use GPL software, I have to
use the GPL license, if my understanding is correct.



On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 9:29 PM, Scott Sweeny 
wrote:

> That would make for an interesting dogfooding run since the tool
> itself is GPL-3 :-)
>
> ~S
>
> On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 07:42:36PM -0700, Spencer wrote:
> > Uh...but if I use your tool, then I can't claim ignorance when I'm
> getting sued for copyright violations.
> >
> > Seriously, though, I hate all the legal crap licensing causes in the
> development world.  Your tool could make life a lot easier in that regard,
> which is nice.
> >
> > BTW, the GPL is the worst license ever.  Your lint tool should flag its
> use as a fatal error.
> >
> > > On Dec 8, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Scott Sweeny 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I'm writing to announce a tool I've been working on to encode best
> > > practices for snapping software. Inspired by utilities like lintian
> I've
> > > decided to name it 'snaplint'. At this point I'd like some wider
> > > feedback as I try to make it more useful.
> > >
> > > Right now you can run snaplint against your snapcraft project directory
> > > and it will scan the prime subdirectory for the following things:
> > >
> > > * copyright (basically that you included usr/share/doc/*copyright* for
> > > any stage-packages
> > > * developer cruft (things like header and object files or static libs
> > > that might have made their way into your snap)
> > > * libraries (examine the ELF files in your snap and look for libraries
> > > which aren't used)
> > >
> > > The next things I'm planning on adding are:
> > > * checking for copyright info from apps/parts themselves.
> > > * checking for mixing of incompatible licenses
> > >
> > > I would love to hear suggestions from you on further improvements.
> > >
> > > You can find the source at https://github.com/ssweeny/snaplint
> > >
> > > And, of course you can try it on your own machine with
> > >
> > >$ snap install snaplint
> > >$ snaplint 
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > ~Scott
> > >
> > > --
> > > Snapcraft mailing list
> > > Snapcraft@lists.snapcraft.io
> > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/
> mailman/listinfo/snapcraft
> >
> > --
> > Snapcraft mailing list
> > Snapcraft@lists.snapcraft.io
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/
> mailman/listinfo/snapcraft
> >
>
> --
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> mailman/listinfo/snapcraft
>
>
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Re: Announcing Snaplint

[Scott Sweeny]

That would make for an interesting dogfooding run since the tool
itself is GPL-3 :-)

~S

On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 07:42:36PM -0700, Spencer wrote:
> Uh...but if I use your tool, then I can't claim ignorance when I'm getting 
> sued for copyright violations.
> 
> Seriously, though, I hate all the legal crap licensing causes in the 
> development world.  Your tool could make life a lot easier in that regard, 
> which is nice.
> 
> BTW, the GPL is the worst license ever.  Your lint tool should flag its use 
> as a fatal error.
> 
> > On Dec 8, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Scott Sweeny  wrote:
> > 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I'm writing to announce a tool I've been working on to encode best
> > practices for snapping software. Inspired by utilities like lintian I've
> > decided to name it 'snaplint'. At this point I'd like some wider
> > feedback as I try to make it more useful.
> > 
> > Right now you can run snaplint against your snapcraft project directory
> > and it will scan the prime subdirectory for the following things:
> > 
> > * copyright (basically that you included usr/share/doc/*copyright* for
> > any stage-packages
> > * developer cruft (things like header and object files or static libs
> > that might have made their way into your snap)
> > * libraries (examine the ELF files in your snap and look for libraries
> > which aren't used)
> > 
> > The next things I'm planning on adding are:
> > * checking for copyright info from apps/parts themselves.
> > * checking for mixing of incompatible licenses
> > 
> > I would love to hear suggestions from you on further improvements.
> > 
> > You can find the source at https://github.com/ssweeny/snaplint
> > 
> > And, of course you can try it on your own machine with
> > 
> >$ snap install snaplint
> >$ snaplint 
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > ~Scott
> > 
> > -- 
> > Snapcraft mailing list
> > Snapcraft@lists.snapcraft.io
> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/snapcraft
> 
> -- 
> Snapcraft mailing list
> Snapcraft@lists.snapcraft.io
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/snapcraft
> 


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Re: Announcing Snaplint

[Spencer]

Uh...but if I use your tool, then I can't claim ignorance when I'm getting sued 
for copyright violations.

Seriously, though, I hate all the legal crap licensing causes in the 
development world.  Your tool could make life a lot easier in that regard, 
which is nice.

BTW, the GPL is the worst license ever.  Your lint tool should flag its use as 
a fatal error.

> On Dec 8, 2016, at 2:44 PM, Scott Sweeny  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm writing to announce a tool I've been working on to encode best
> practices for snapping software. Inspired by utilities like lintian I've
> decided to name it 'snaplint'. At this point I'd like some wider
> feedback as I try to make it more useful.
> 
> Right now you can run snaplint against your snapcraft project directory
> and it will scan the prime subdirectory for the following things:
> 
> * copyright (basically that you included usr/share/doc/*copyright* for
> any stage-packages
> * developer cruft (things like header and object files or static libs
> that might have made their way into your snap)
> * libraries (examine the ELF files in your snap and look for libraries
> which aren't used)
> 
> The next things I'm planning on adding are:
> * checking for copyright info from apps/parts themselves.
> * checking for mixing of incompatible licenses
> 
> I would love to hear suggestions from you on further improvements.
> 
> You can find the source at https://github.com/ssweeny/snaplint
> 
> And, of course you can try it on your own machine with
> 
>$ snap install snaplint
>$ snaplint 
> 
> Cheers,
> ~Scott
> 
> -- 
> Snapcraft mailing list
> Snapcraft@lists.snapcraft.io
> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/snapcraft

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Re: Announcing Snaplint

[Leo Arias]

That is great, thanks!
I'd love it as an optional step for the snaps we build in launchpad.
Or mabye as warnings on the click-reviewers-tool?

Sadly I can't put it in travis because snaps don't work on docker. But
I will try it in my manual builds.

pura vida.

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