Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 10:18 PM, KD7JYK DM09 kd7...@earthlink.net wrote: I see I'll have to re-read that a few times, but off the top of my head, based on that, it seems obscurity is about as close to total security as possible, even with the best of decryption techniques over many years. Yup :-) At least from a cryptographic standpoint. In contemporary times, security has less to do with keeping a secret so much as determining a balance between how many resources need to be invested into brute-forcing a given obscuring method(s), and the significance of the payload (what the secret message is). Of course, if you really want to keep something secret, well... he that hath a secret had better keep secret that he hath a secret to keep. ;-) －ＫＣ２ＴＴＫ __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list I see I'll have to re-read that a few times, but off the top of my head, based on that, it seems obscurity is about as close to total security as possible, even with the best of decryption techniques over many years. Kurt __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list From: KD7JYK DM09 kd7...@earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:18 PM To: Shortwave Spy Numbers Stations spooks@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Spooks] WHY When is a secret not a secret? When one person not intended knows it? Yes, precisely. As it applies to us, airwaves are not a secure channel, ergo the raison d'etre for transmitting encrypted/encoded/cyphered messages. The moment you, or I, or any of us are able to decrypt/decode/decypher the message and obtain the payload (the content), it ceases to be a secret. The question of how many people know (10 people? 10,000 people?) is irrelevant in this sense. However, if we assume that the entity which transmits messages is savvy enough to realize that his/her/its messages can be overheard, then we must also assume that those same entities would also be savvy enough to peruse our fine mailing list to determine if their current encryption/encoding/cyphering has been breached, as well as determining whether their transmission system functions or not. Yes, I just made the argument that the SWL community offers aid to the enemy. Ironically, we also offer the same aid to friends. In short... - he that hath a secret had better keep secret that he has a secret to keep, - oddity invites curiosity, - obscurity is not security, - information and disinformation is virtually indistinguishable (from the eavesdropper's perspective), and - the dissemination of cryptotext and its details is not the same as publication of secrets per se. ✇ＫＣ２ＴＴＫ __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list : - obscurity is not security At what point would this occur? Kurt __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list -- From: KD7JYK DM09 kd7...@earthlink.net Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 10:18 PM To: Shortwave Spy Numbers Stations spooks@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Spooks] WHY Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list : This is not correct, for sure not in the legal sense. Publication or public : knowledge does not denote declassification. You read far too much into my post. I was refering to the definition of the word, not the classification of a document. Kurt In which case there is almost no such thing as a secret in the real World. When is a secret not a secret? When one person not intended knows it? 10 people? 10,000 people? This group is a small splinter faction of the SWL hobby community. We chase unusual and out of the main stream signals, sometimes military or shadowy in nature. Without a doubt within our collective logbooks and memories are things other people consider secret, both as a classification and as a concept. Of course, a well maintained secret could be in our logs and we would never know it was a secret. T! __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list : This is not correct, for sure not in the legal sense. Publication or public : knowledge does not denote declassification. You read far too much into my post. I was refering to the definition of the word, not the classification of a document. Kurt __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list -- From: KD7JYK DM09 kd7...@earthlink.net Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 5:25 AM To: Shortwave Spy Numbers Stations spooks@mailman.qth.net Subject: Re: [Spooks] WHY Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Just don't give him information that could threaten national security and move on... If we have the information, it's not a secret. Kurt Kurt, This is not correct, for sure not in the legal sense. Publication or public knowledge does not denote declassification. Example, if a person with a security clearance has a classified document that says XYZZY is the magic word and someone publishes in Aviation Leak and Spy Technology XYZZY is the magic word, the person with authorized access still has to treat the information as classified, it is still officially classified. He / she can not confirm the information to anyone who does not have the proper level of clearance and the proper need to know, even though it might have been splashed on page one, above the fold, of a major newspaper. And depending on how Aviation Leak and Spy Technology acquired the information they may face prosecution for distributing it. If people who are not authorized to access a piece of classified information have knowledge of the information the information still may be classified. Often a leakage of classified information can be quantified, and the spread of that leak reduced or eliminated. Another example, and one that is real World. I rather strongly suspect that the military list certain frequencies and their usage as Classified. I mean, any official list you see that specific frequency and usage included on may carry some kind of classification, even if only For Official Use Only. We, as listeners, might hear the traffic and correctly deduce the usage / net / application of the communications. We now have legal access to classified, but unconfirmed, information. It can still be secret and known by others, this is, from a security consideration, an undesirable state, but not an impossible one. This raises some interesting questions. If you have what you suspect to be classified information are you in violation of any codes by distributing it? For sure this is going to vary from country to country. In some places yes and others no. I suspect that in the US as long as you do not know, for a fact, that the information is classified you are probably good to go. If you do suspect, or know, then it is a lot more questionable. T! __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list The chair is against the wall. John has a long moustache. - J. On 11/8/12 12:26 PM, sch...@mail.com wrote: Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Does any of this really matter? Just don't give him information that could threaten national security and move on... Sincirely, Schmii __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list Just don't give him information that could threaten national security and move on... If we have the information, it's not a secret. Kurt __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list The long sobs of the violins of Autumn.. Soothes my heart with a monotonous languor. -- I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. --Thomas Jefferson __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list When I attempted to call a friend in Yugoslavia in 1991, the recording provided by the telephone company: We're sorry, the county you are trying to call is currently out of order... I never did find her, I hope she and her family are well. Kurt __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Re: [Spooks] WHY
Visit http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks to unsubscribe from this list : The long sobs of the violins of Autumn.. : Soothes my heart with a monotonous languor. The war you have just seen is real... The names have not been changed to protect the guilty. Kurt __ Spooks mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/spooks Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:Spooks@mailman.qth.net This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
