RE: FM 74 Egress Sprinklre system?
NFPA 101A has a number of partial sprinkler system options for various occupancies. I recall the original development of the point systems in the late 1970's where partial systems were given consideration in life safety evaluations. Perhaps the system in this case is a holdover from that time period. It would be instructive to take a look at past and current versions of NFPA 101A to see how some of these systems could have been introduced especially on the fire marshal side where NFPA could have been used in lieu of building codes in upgrading existing buildings. NFPA 101 has included a provision for 6 heads off domestic for many years. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:08 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: FM 74 Egress Sprinklre system? Douglas, During the early eighties and maybe the seventies (I was in California until the late eighties so I'm not sure about the when) schools K-12 were under the jurisdiction of the State FM. There were several I've come across with these silly partial systems protecting small areas deemed to be extra dangerous for one reason or another, including the main building at Bates Tech College (which was a vocational adult school in the Tacoma school District until 1988), my own institution. In the entry to what is now the financial aid office, but then was registration, are seven Omega heads over the doorway. There are four along one wall in a counselor's office but that wall used to be a pass through of some sort with a drop window arrangement. There's an elementary school in Puyallup with two heads (and six spares) covering a stage (platform), and a high school with four heads over the main office counter (highly combustible paperwork no doubt). All these systems are tapped off plumbing, and installed in, at best, a pipe schedule, or to nothing cogent at all like your system seems to be. I wouldn't be surprised if Washington nonsense migrated to Oregon. You may be looking at something somebody thought was a good idea at the time, like that six month or so surge of a single sprinkler head over a residential cooking surface tapped off the plumbing. Or perhaps tose guys that decided if some anti-freeze was good 100% anti-freeze would be better, until On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Douglas Hicks fire...@eoni.com wrote: I am looking at 2 schools that have partial sprinkler systems, protecting the egress routes only. The local Fire Marshal thinks they may be installed to FM74 standards. The 2 that I have seen are wet systems, 1/2 inch drops to the heads, 1/2 garden hose fitting as an inspector's test. The heads are pendant, and uprights, as far as 2 feet from the ceiling. Some of the heads are leaking, some of the heads look to be oriented improperly. No one seems to know what the year of installation was. Is/was there a standard for that type of sprinkler system? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attac hments/20120325/0cd46534/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachment s/20120325/fb7364e8/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
min dist. between EC and std throw sprinklers
Can a standard throw sprinkler and extended coverage sprinkler be placed closer than 8ft apart without a baffle? Thanks, Dewayne -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120326/4db6b7e4/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: min dist. between EC and std throw sprinklers
No. If 8 ft is minimum for EC/EC the it is the same for EC/STD. Tony -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez Sent: March 26, 2012 9:52 AM To: SprinklerFORUM Subject: min dist. between EC and std throw sprinklers Can a standard throw sprinkler and extended coverage sprinkler be placed closer than 8ft apart without a baffle? Thanks, Dewayne -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachment s/20120326/4db6b7e4/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Underground FDC
Craig, Here is what we have been using for UG supply piping and FDC pipe http://www.northtowncompany.com/msdspds/Low%20density%20polywrap/northtown%20polywrap%20data%20sheet.pdf The 8 mil minimum, group 2, linear low density, flat tube, virgin polyethylene film provided meets or exceeds the requirements of AWWA C105-10, ANSI A21.5-10, ASTM D4976 and NT4112-10. The film is marked showing trademark, year of manufacture, type of resin, specification conformance, applicable pipe sizes and a corrosion protection warning. http://www.northtowncompany.com/polywraplow.html Just make sure that the trench has a layer of sand or #2 fine crushed limestone, do not allow anyone to backfill with broken rocks or chunks of concrete. You'll be guaranteed to cause a tear or rip in the polywrap and corrosion at that tear point. Follow the manufactures directions and I've never had any problems. Captain Frank J. Herrick City Of Leawood Fire Department 14801 Mission Road Leawood, Ks. 66224-9560 Office: 913.681.6788 x 26 Fax: 913.681.2399 Fire Sprinklers Save Lives, Property, the Environment, and Water - Protect what you value most! -Original Message- From: Craig Leadbetter [mailto:craigleadbet...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 9:38 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Underground FDC Thanks. I haven't found any products that I am sure will meet the NFPA 13 10.1.3. The commentary talks about AWWA C203 standard. What I have found so far doesn't list this as the standard the the products meet. Maybe I am making it more complicated than it needs to be. -- Craig Leadbetter Safeguard of Marquette PO Box 116 Marquette, MI 49855 (O) 906-475-9955 (F) 906-475-5474 (C) 906-362-5393 craigleadbet...@gmail.com On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:09 AM, lamarvau...@charter.net wrote: I haven't used it in a long time but 3M once produced a system package of mastic coating (paint-wrap-paint) that was spec'd. on a gov't job I did.I'm sure someone else may make a similar product today. On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 8:50 AM, Dewayne Martinez wrote: We order poly wrap and mastic coating from the local UG supplier. -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-bounces@**firesprinkler.orgsprinklerforum-bounces@fir esprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-**boun...@firesprinkler.orgsprinklerforum-bou n...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Craig Leadbetter Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 7:30 AM To: Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Underground FDC I have a yard post FDC with underground piping. We are going to use galvanized pipe so i am looking for a product that can be used to protect the pipe per code for a tar based protective coating. -- Craig Leadbetter Safeguard of Marquette PO Box 116 Marquette, MI 49855 (O) 906-475-9955 (F) 906-475-5474 (C) 906-362-5393 craigleadbet...@gmail.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.**firesprinkler.org/mailman/** private/sprinklerforum/attachhttp://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailm an/private/sprinklerforum/attach ments/20120323/3d7dc911/**attachment.html __**_ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.**org/mailman/listinfo/**sprinklerforum http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum __**_ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.**org/mailman/listinfo/**sprinklerforum http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum __**_ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.**org Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.**org/mailman/listinfo/**sprinklerforum http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20120323/f3270634/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Re: FM 74 Egress Sprinklre system?
NFPA 101A is tied to a particular version of NFPA 101. For example, if the facility is subject to the 2000 Ed of NFPA 101, then the 2001 Ed of NFPA 101A applies. This may or may not be an issue for your facility but an example of where it would apply would be, in very plain language: If a complete sprinkler system (throughout) is required, then a partial sprinkler system would be a Negative (Bad thing). If a complete sprinkler system is NOT required for minimal regulatory compliance, then a partial sprinkler system is a Positive thing. How Positive and Negative are indicated in 101A forms. The definitions of Partial are addressed in NFPA 101A which, as you would expect, is tied to NFPA 13. The next edition of NFPA 101A comes out this year, will be labeled as the 2013 edition, and is tied to the 2012 edition of NFPA 101. Hope this helps a little. Tom Tom Scheidel cms911.com 817-456-6238 Scheidel Associates Sent from my IPad On Mar 26, 2012, at 8:43, Bill Brooks bill.bro...@brooksfpe.com wrote: NFPA 101A has a number of partial sprinkler system options for various occupancies. I recall the original development of the point systems in the late 1970's where partial systems were given consideration in life safety evaluations. Perhaps the system in this case is a holdover from that time period. It would be instructive to take a look at past and current versions of NFPA 101A to see how some of these systems could have been introduced especially on the fire marshal side where NFPA could have been used in lieu of building codes in upgrading existing buildings. NFPA 101 has included a provision for 6 heads off domestic for many years. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:08 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: FM 74 Egress Sprinklre system? Douglas, During the early eighties and maybe the seventies (I was in California until the late eighties so I'm not sure about the when) schools K-12 were under the jurisdiction of the State FM. There were several I've come across with these silly partial systems protecting small areas deemed to be extra dangerous for one reason or another, including the main building at Bates Tech College (which was a vocational adult school in the Tacoma school District until 1988), my own institution. In the entry to what is now the financial aid office, but then was registration, are seven Omega heads over the doorway. There are four along one wall in a counselor's office but that wall used to be a pass through of some sort with a drop window arrangement. There's an elementary school in Puyallup with two heads (and six spares) covering a stage (platform), and a high school with four heads over the main office counter (highly combustible paperwork no doubt). All these systems are tapped off plumbing, and installed in, at best, a pipe schedule, or to nothing cogent at all like your system seems to be. I wouldn't be surprised if Washington nonsense migrated to Oregon. You may be looking at something somebody thought was a good idea at the time, like that six month or so surge of a single sprinkler head over a residential cooking surface tapped off the plumbing. Or perhaps tose guys that decided if some anti-freeze was good 100% anti-freeze would be better, until On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 12:59 PM, Douglas Hicks fire...@eoni.com wrote: I am looking at 2 schools that have partial sprinkler systems, protecting the egress routes only. The local Fire Marshal thinks they may be installed to FM74 standards. The 2 that I have seen are wet systems, 1/2 inch drops to the heads, 1/2 garden hose fitting as an inspector's test. The heads are pendant, and uprights, as far as 2 feet from the ceiling. Some of the heads are leaking, some of the heads look to be oriented improperly. No one seems to know what the year of installation was. Is/was there a standard for that type of sprinkler system? -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attac hments/20120325/0cd46534/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS,
