[Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

2023-06-28 Thread Ken Wagoner 
The requirements in §18.4.2 and .3 would be applicable to any 
installation which is required to be protected against damage to the 
sprinkler system from seismic activity.  As a previous post correctly 
identified the requirements in chapter 18 would apply if this were the 
case, or if an alternative means of providing such protection were based 
on analysis by a registered PE.


The question regarding seismic design category B from ASCE7 is worth 
close review.  That document does indicate that the following 
nonstructural components are exempt from requiring such protection, and 
exception #4 reads: "Mechanical and electrical components in Seismic 
Design Category B."  So, at first look, the conclusion that the sleeve 
isn't required is correct.


However.  I've seen many buildings in SDC A or B where the structural 
EOR has put seismic protection of the sprinkler system into the contract 
specs.  It's always a good idea to ask that individual for an answer 
regarding this, and get that answer in writing.  It's amazing how things 
change when the request for an answer in writing accompanies the contact.


As I am a current principal member of the NFPA committee on hanging and 
bracing, please see the disclaimer below.


sincerely,
*Ken Wagoner, SET*
*Parsley Consulting
500 West Mechanic Street
Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235*
*Phone: (760) 745-6181 *
*Visit the website 
* 



*IMPORTANT NOTICE: This correspondence is not a Formal Interpretation 
issued pursuant to NFPA Regulations. Any opinion expressed is the 
personal opinion of the author and does not necessarily represent the 
official position of the NFPA or its Technical Committees. In addition, 
this correspondence is neither intended, nor should it be relied upon, 
to provide professional consultation or services. It should be noted 
that the above is my opinion as a member of the NFPA Automatic Sprinkler 
System Hanging and Bracing Committee and the Hanging and Bracing for 
Fire Suppression Systems Committee in accordance with the NFPA 
Regulations Governing Committee Projects and should therefore not be 
considered, nor relied upon, as the official position of the NFPA or its 
Committees*
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[Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

2023-06-28 Thread mike keyfps . com 
Per the NFPA 13 2019, chapter 18
18.1.1 Makes the statement clear.
Where water-based fire protection systems are required to be protected against 
damage from earthquakes, the requirements of Chapter 18 shall Apply, unless the 
requirements of 18.1.2 are met.
18.1.2 Alternative methods of providing earthquake protection of sprinkler 
systems based on a seismic analysis certified by a registered professional 
engineer such that system performance will be at least equal to that of the 
building structure under expected seismic forces shall be permitted.

The way this reads in my opinion is, unless the building is going to require 
seismic protection per the structural seismic category provided by the 
structural engineers, then the chapter 18 does not apply to any part of the 
sprinkler system.


Michael Goodis
Salesman, Project Manager
IL#000635   NICET#135586
Key Fire Protection Enterprises LLC
3200 Mike Padgett HWY
Augusta, GA 30906
Office- (706) 790-3473
Cell- (706) 220-8822
Fax: (706) 738-2119
[white background header logo]




From: Travis Mack 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 9:35 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers 

Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

That clearance is in the seismic section. If SDC B, then the seismic stuff does 
not apply.


Travis Mack, SET

M.E.P.CAD |

181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074

www.mepcad.com | m: 480.547.9348



AutoSPRINK  |  AutoSPRINK FAB  |  AutoSPRINK RVT  |  AlarmCAD



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From: Shawn Foor mailto:shawn.f...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 6:29:50 AM
To: sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Pipe sleeve

Does a pipe sleeve in a seismic design catagory B need to be 4" larger than the 
pipe that is 4" or larger?--
Shawn Foor, SET

FOOR DESIGN, LLC
10208 E 98TH ST
TULSA, OK 74133
P:918-237-1400

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[Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

2023-06-28 Thread mike keyfps . com 
Doesn't have to have a sleeve at all if flex couplings are used.

From: Travis Mack 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 9:40 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers 

Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

Correct.


Travis Mack, SET

M.E.P.CAD |

181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074

www.mepcad.com | m: 480.547.9348



AutoSPRINK  |  AutoSPRINK FAB  |  AutoSPRINK RVT  |  AlarmCAD



Book appointment time in my calendar

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From: Shawn Foor mailto:shawn.f...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 6:39:38 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

Travis that is what I was thinking as well. So a piece of 4" pipe could use a 
6" sleeve in a design catagory B and not have to use an 8"

On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 08:35 Travis Mack 
mailto:t.m...@mepcad.com>> wrote:
That clearance is in the seismic section. If SDC B, then the seismic stuff does 
not apply.


Travis Mack, SET

M.E.P.CAD |

181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 
89074

www.mepcad.com | m: 480.547.9348



AutoSPRINK  |  AutoSPRINK FAB  |  AutoSPRINK RVT  |  AlarmCAD



Book appointment time in my calendar

https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad


From: Shawn Foor mailto:shawn.f...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 6:29:50 AM

To: sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Pipe sleeve

Does a pipe sleeve in a seismic design catagory B need to be 4" larger than the 
pipe that is 4" or larger?--
Shawn Foor, SET

FOOR DESIGN, LLC
10208 E 98TH 
ST
TULSA, OK 
74133
P:918-237-1400

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--
Shawn Foor, SET

FOOR DESIGN, LLC
10208 E 98TH ST
TULSA, OK 74133
P:918-237-1400

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[Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

2023-06-28 Thread Jeff.Normand 
Better off using a flexible coupling on each side and not have to worry about 
any clearances.


Thanks,

Jeff Normand
Ferguson Fire Design
480-505-9271 x 705
jeff.norm...@mfpdesign.com

Please rate our customer 
service



From: Shawn Foor 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 8:40 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers 

Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

Travis that is what I was thinking as well. So a piece of 4” pipe could use a 
6” sleeve in a design catagory B and not have to use an 8”

On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 08:35 Travis Mack 
mailto:t.m...@mepcad.com>> wrote:
That clearance is in the seismic section. If SDC B, then the seismic stuff does 
not apply.


Travis Mack, SET

M.E.P.CAD |

181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 
89074

www.mepcad.com | m: 480.547.9348



AutoSPRINK  |  AutoSPRINK FAB  |  AutoSPRINK RVT  |  AlarmCAD



Book appointment time in my calendar

https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad


From: Shawn Foor mailto:shawn.f...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 6:29:50 AM

To: sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Pipe sleeve

Does a pipe sleeve in a seismic design catagory B need to be 4” larger than the 
pipe that is 4” or larger?--
Shawn Foor, SET

FOOR DESIGN, LLC
10208 E 98TH 
ST
TULSA, OK 
74133
P:918-237-1400

_
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--
Shawn Foor, SET

FOOR DESIGN, LLC
10208 E 98TH ST
TULSA, OK 74133
P:918-237-1400

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[Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

2023-06-28 Thread Travis Mack 
Correct.


Travis Mack, SET

M.E.P.CAD |

181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074

www.mepcad.com | m: 480.547.9348



AutoSPRINK  |  AutoSPRINK FAB  |  AutoSPRINK RVT  |  AlarmCAD



Book appointment time in my calendar

https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad


From: Shawn Foor 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 6:39:38 AM
To: Discussion list on issues relating to automatic fire sprinklers 

Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

Travis that is what I was thinking as well. So a piece of 4” pipe could use a 
6” sleeve in a design catagory B and not have to use an 8”

On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 08:35 Travis Mack 
mailto:t.m...@mepcad.com>> wrote:
That clearance is in the seismic section. If SDC B, then the seismic stuff does 
not apply.


Travis Mack, SET

M.E.P.CAD |

181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 
89074

www.mepcad.com | m: 480.547.9348



AutoSPRINK  |  AutoSPRINK FAB  |  AutoSPRINK RVT  |  AlarmCAD



Book appointment time in my calendar

https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad


From: Shawn Foor mailto:shawn.f...@gmail.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 6:29:50 AM

To: sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Pipe sleeve

Does a pipe sleeve in a seismic design catagory B need to be 4” larger than the 
pipe that is 4” or larger?--

Shawn Foor, SET

FOOR DESIGN, LLC
10208 E 98TH 
ST
TULSA, OK 
74133
P:918-237-1400

_
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--
Shawn Foor, SET

FOOR DESIGN, LLC
10208 E 98TH ST
TULSA, OK 74133
P:918-237-1400

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[Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

2023-06-28 Thread Shawn Foor 
Travis that is what I was thinking as well. So a piece of 4” pipe could use
a 6” sleeve in a design catagory B and not have to use an 8”

On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 08:35 Travis Mack  wrote:

> That clearance is in the seismic section. If SDC B, then the seismic stuff
> does not apply.
>
> Travis Mack, SET
>
> *M.E.P.CAD* |
>
> 181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074
> 
>
> www.mepcad.com | *m: 480.547.9348*
>
>
>
> *AutoSPRINK  |  AutoSPRINK FAB  |  AutoSPRINK RVT  |  AlarmCAD*
>
>
>
> Book appointment time in my calendar
>
> https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad
>
> --
> *From:* Shawn Foor 
> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 28, 2023 6:29:50 AM
>
> *To:* sprinklerforum 
> *Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Pipe sleeve
>
> Does a pipe sleeve in a seismic design catagory B need to be 4” larger
> than the pipe that is 4” or larger?--
>
> 
> Shawn Foor, SET
>
> *FOOR DESIGN, LLC*
> *10208 E 98TH ST
> *
> *TULSA, OK 74133
> *
> *P:918-237-1400*
>
> _
> SprinklerForum mailing list:
> https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to
> sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org

-- 
Shawn Foor, SET

*FOOR DESIGN, LLC*
*10208 E 98TH ST*
*TULSA, OK 74133*
*P:918-237-1400*

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[Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

2023-06-28 Thread Travis Mack 
That clearance is in the seismic section. If SDC B, then the seismic stuff does 
not apply.


Travis Mack, SET

M.E.P.CAD |

181 N. Arroyo Grande Blvd. #105 I Henderson, NV 89074

www.mepcad.com | m: 480.547.9348



AutoSPRINK  |  AutoSPRINK FAB  |  AutoSPRINK RVT  |  AlarmCAD



Book appointment time in my calendar

https://calendly.com/t_mack_mepcad


From: Shawn Foor 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 6:29:50 AM
To: sprinklerforum 
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Pipe sleeve

Does a pipe sleeve in a seismic design catagory B need to be 4” larger than the 
pipe that is 4” or larger?--
Shawn Foor, SET

FOOR DESIGN, LLC
10208 E 98TH ST
TULSA, OK 74133
P:918-237-1400

_
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[Sprinklerforum] Re: Pipe sleeve

2023-06-28 Thread matthew.willis1 
I would say yes, based on the intent of that section..

R/
Matt

Please rate our customer 
service

Matthew J. Willis, CWBSP, CET
Engineering Designer IV
FERGUSON FIRE DESIGN, LLC
A Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Ferguson Fire & Fabrication, LLC
401 N 5th Street
Suite 448
Wausau, WI 54403
C: 307-236-8249
matthew.will...@ferguson.com
www.FergusonFire.com

From: Shawn Foor 
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2023 8:30 AM
To: sprinklerforum 
Subject: [Sprinklerforum] Pipe sleeve

Does a pipe sleeve in a seismic design catagory B need to be 4” larger than the 
pipe that is 4” or larger?--
Shawn Foor, SET

FOOR DESIGN, LLC
10208 E 98TH ST
TULSA, OK 74133
P:918-237-1400

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[Sprinklerforum] Pipe sleeve

2023-06-28 Thread Shawn Foor 
Does a pipe sleeve in a seismic design catagory B need to be 4” larger than
the pipe that is 4” or larger?--
Shawn Foor, SET

*FOOR DESIGN, LLC*
*10208 E 98TH ST*
*TULSA, OK 74133*
*P:918-237-1400*

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