RE: Residential sprinklers

[Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum]

Viking has a residential upright.

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile



-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Trillium Fire Sprinkler Design INC via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, December 1, 2021 6:26 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Trillium Fire Sprinkler Design INC 
Subject: Residential sprinklers 

Has anyone installed or have information on a residential upright sprinkler 
that can be installed in an open wood truss roof. The owner wants to have the 
trusses exposed in the living/dining area.

 

Troy

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RE: Gridded dry system

[Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum]

With the center fed main and not two outer mains with lines fed from both 
mains, I would not call it a grid, no matter what you call it, I like the 
layout and should not be anything code wise to prohibit it.

Thank you

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile



-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Kevin Hall via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 1:42 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Kevin Hall 
Subject: Re: Gridded dry system

The operating sprinkler will receive water from two directions. That meets more 
of the definition of gridded than it does loop.


The above is my opinion and has not been processed as a formal interpretation 
in accordance with the NFPA Regulations Governing Committee Projects. This is 
provided with the understanding that the AFSA assumes no liability for this 
opinion or actions taken on it and they are not to be considered the official 
position of the NFPA or its technical committees.
AFSA cannot provide design or consulting engineering services, and this opinion 
should therefore not be considered, nor relied upon, as such.


Kevin Hall, M.Eng., P.E., ET, CWBSP, PMSFPE

Coordinator, Engineering and Technical Services

American Fire Sprinkler Association

kh...@firesprinkler.org

214-349-5971


On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 1:38 PM Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum < 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote:

> I think you could call it a looped dry system if it will make you feel 
> better.
>
> Richard M. Carr, SET
> Project Manager/Design
> Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
> 325 Jackson Loop Road
> Flat Rock, NC  28731
>
> rich...@diboco.com
> 828-696-3400
> 828-696-2288 Fax
> 828-708-9118 Mobile
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Sprinklerforum  
> On Behalf Of Ed Kramer via Sprinklerforum
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 1:31 PM
> To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> Cc: Ed Kramer 
> Subject: Gridded dry system
>
> Is this sprinkler system a gridded system?   I've avoided this type of
> design in the past for dry systems because it 'kinda' a grid, but not 
> really.  Now I'm questioning my questioning.  What are your thoughts?
>
>
>
> Reference NFPA 13 (2019) sections 8.2.3.10 and 3.3.206.5.
>
>
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/u2hw3cbvlga4fcq/Dry%20Attic%20System.pdf?dl=
> 0
>
>
>
>
>
> Ed Kramer
>
>
>
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RE: Gridded dry system

[Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum]

I think you could call it a looped dry system if it will make you feel better.

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile



-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Ed Kramer via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 1:31 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Ed Kramer 
Subject: Gridded dry system

Is this sprinkler system a gridded system?   I've avoided this type of
design in the past for dry systems because it 'kinda' a grid, but not really.  
Now I'm questioning my questioning.  What are your thoughts?

 

Reference NFPA 13 (2019) sections 8.2.3.10 and 3.3.206.5.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u2hw3cbvlga4fcq/Dry%20Attic%20System.pdf?dl=0

 

 

Ed Kramer

 

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RE: Stub-up Material

[Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum]

NFPA does allow you to stub up above the floor with PVC but I thought it was 
limited to 12".

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile



-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Don Casey via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 2:06 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; Jerry Van Kolken 

Cc: Don Casey 
Subject: RE: Stub-up Material

Concerns that I heard of in the past.

Mech damage 
Chemical interaction 
Weight carrying capabilities 



-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Henry Fontana via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 2:03 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Henry Fontana ; Michael Radzicki 
; Jerry Van Kolken ; Ken Wagoner 

Subject: Re: Stub-up Material

I think he was questioning the use of PVC pipe?

Henry

On Jun 29, 2021, at 1:58 PM, Michael Radzicki via Sprinklerforum 
 wrote:

And in NFPA 13 (2016): 6.3.1.1.1 * Underground pipe shall be permitted to 
extend into the building through the slab or wall not more than 24 in. (600 mm).

Michael Radzicki, P.E., LEED AP
d 570.880.7333

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Ken Wagoner via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2021 1:54 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Ken Wagoner ; Jerry Van Kolken 

Subject: Re: Stub-up Material

Jerry,
It's in 24

10.1.4.1* Underground piping shall be permitted to extend into the building 
through the slab or wall not more than 24 in. (600 mm).

See the annex also.  And no California revision to disallow this.

sincerely,
*Ken Wagoner, SET
*Parsley Consulting*
*500 West Mechanic Street
*Harrisonville, MO 64701
*Phone 760-745-6181*
Visit the website 

 *


**
On 6/29/2021 10:44 AM, Jerry Van Kolken via Sprinklerforum wrote:
I have a project where the UG contractor stub-up with PVC pipe with a Mega-lug 
cap. I've reviewed NFPA 13 / 24 and didn't see anything to indicate this was 
not legit. What / Where can I reference the correctness of this installation?


Jerry Van Kolken
Millennium Fire Protection Corp.
2950 San Luis Rey Rd.
Oceanside, CA 92058
(760) 722-2722 FX 722-2730

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RE: Smoke Detectors

[Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum]

Could be an obstruction issue.

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile



-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2021 9:08 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Prahl, Craig/GVL ; Brian Harris 

Subject: RE: Smoke Detectors

I searched NFPA 13, 15 and 72 and couldn't find anything referring to a 
separation between a detector and a sprinkler.

Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME - Fire Protection | 
craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com
1041 East Butler Road   Greenville, South Carolina  29606
CONTACT BY: email or MS TEAMS

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Brian Harris via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2021 8:38 AM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Brian Harris 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Smoke Detectors

Has anyone heard of a minimum distance of 12" required between a smoke detector 
and a sprinkler head? I don't see anything in NFPA-13 and I'm admittedly not 
very familiar with alarm/electrical codes.

Thank You,

Brian Harris, CET
BVS Systems Inc.
Design Manager
bvssystemsinc.com
Phone: 704.896.9989
Fax: 704.896.1935

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RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Testing of existing systems

[Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum]

Did you ask if they would accept an air test?

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile



-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Prahl, Craig/GVL via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 1:38 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; Mark Phillips 

Cc: Prahl, Craig/GVL ; John Irwin 
; tfscolorado 
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Re: Testing of existing systems

Sometimes it's not about how good of a job your fitters did but the unknown age 
and condition of the existing system piping you're tying into.  There are times 
when a 200 psi test is all it takes to open up pinholes and create leaks.  Now 
the owner looks at you as being responsible and you're on the hook for repairs 
and loss of their production or product if something gets wet.

Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead/SME – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | 
craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com
1041 East Butler Road   Greenville, South Carolina  29606

-Original Message-
From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of tfscolorado via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 1:02 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org; Mark Phillips 

Cc: tfscolorado ; John Irwin 
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Testing of existing systems


John, you have probably spent more time and effort fighting this issue versus 
just doing a test.  200 add and relocates is a lot and I would think you should 
put a test on it even if it is not code required (which I believe it is) for 
your benefit and warranty.  If your guys did a good job, a 200 # test should 
not be a big deal.  As they say choose you battles wisely.Jim AdamsSent from my 
Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
 Original message From: John Irwin via Sprinklerforum 
 Date: 8/19/20  7:11 AM  (GMT-07:00) 
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org, Mark Phillips 
 Cc: John Irwin  
Subject: Re: Testing of existing systems I included this reference in my 
response. From 4 different editions of 13. As well as a half dozen informal 
interpretations from AFSA and explanatory comments from the handbook.John 
IrwinWest Coast Branch ManagerQuick Response Fire Protection727-282-9243Typed 
on tiny keys, just for you. Please forgive spelling errors, typographical 
transgressions and grammatical gaffs.From: Mark 
Phillips Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 9:07:24 
AMTo: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org 
Cc: John Irwin 
Subject: RE: Testing of existing systemsI would be 
arguing the point of 25.2.1.4.2 of NFPA 13 2016How are you isolating relocated 
drops?Mark PhillipsBranch ManagerFire Sprinkler Design, Install, 
InspectionsService, Backflows, Fire Alarm Inspections832-101 Purser 
DriveRaleigh NC 27603Phone: 919-779-4010Fax: 919-779-4014Cell   : 
919-268-7587Email : PhillipsM@pyebarkerfire.comWeb   : 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.pyebarkerfire.com__;!!B5cixuoO7ltTeg!TRXWHQ-e_usaUH4VcdQhIOn_24PD8P61popS_t8IMDorh4B4s36QJ-LCAtqitwpgDg$
 
-Original Message-From: Sprinklerforum 
 On Behalf Of John Irwin via 
SprinklerforumSent: Tuesday, August 18, 2020 6:16 PMTo: 
Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.orgCc: John Irwin 
Subject: RE: Testing of existing 
systems[EXTERNAL]Nobody has an informal code interpretation on this? I don't 
believe we're all just putting 200 psi on other people's pipe. Anything saved 
from AFSA, NFSA or NFPA would be great. ThanksJohn IrwinQuick Response Fire 
Protection"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of 
low price is forgotten." - Benjamin FranklinFrom: John IrwinSent: Monday, 
August 17, 2020 3:52 PMTo: Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.orgSubject: 
Testing of existing systemsNFPA 13 2013 25.2.1.6 or NFPA 13 2016 25.2.1.4We're 
doing a 200+ sprinkler add and relocate and the new fire marshal has decided 
that 200 sprinkler relocates is a lot and that I should put 200 psi on the 
existing piping. So we're playing the game of escalation and code 
interpretation.Does anyone have a code interpretation from AFSA, NFSA or NFPA 
on this? Her stance is that the code says "such as relocated drops" and I may 
have added a few drops.I am sure we have all come across this right?John 
IrwinQuick Response Fire Protection"The bitterness of poor quality remains long 
after the sweetness of low price is forgotten." - Benjamin 
Franklin___Sprinklerforum mailing 
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RE: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

[Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum]

The AHJ should enforce the code not make it up, code does not prohibit the 
sprinklers to remain above the ceiling.

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile

[cid:image001.jpg@01D6457D.48BF8D70]

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of John Irwin via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2020 2:21 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: John Irwin 
Subject: Uprights in non combustible concealed space

We installed temporary upright Protection in a partially occupied building 
during a major renovation. We then came back and dropped pendent heads in the 
new ceiling. We left the uprights above the new ceiling. Fire inspector says we 
need to remove the uprights now. Is there a basis for removing these? I realize 
they are not required but are they permitted to remain?

John Irwin
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RE: Overhead / Friction Loss

[Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum]

15% is good for a tree, 8-10% if it is a grid.

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com<mailto:rich...@diboco.com>
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile

[cid:image001.jpg@01D5AC13.297D47D0]

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Brian Harris via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:14 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Brian Harris 
Subject: RE: Overhead / Friction Loss

I'd like it for Tree & Grid.

Brian Harris, CET
BVS Systems Inc.
bvssytemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/>

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:11 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Richard Carr mailto:rich...@diboco.com>>
Subject: RE: Overhead / Friction Loss

Is it a grid, tree, or loop?

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com<mailto:rich...@diboco.com>
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile

[cid:image001.jpg@01D5AC13.297D47D0]

From: Sprinklerforum 
mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>>
 On Behalf Of Brian Harris via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:09 PM
To: 
sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org>
Cc: Brian Harris mailto:bhar...@bvssystemsinc.com>>
Subject: Overhead / Friction Loss

What's a good "ballpark" number to include for pressure loss due to friction 
when guesstimating system demand? I figure EHP, Elevation, Underground, BFP. 
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Brian Harris, CET
BVS Systems Inc.
Design Manager
bvssystemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/>
Phone: 704.896.9989
Fax: 704.896.1935

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RE: Overhead / Friction Loss

[Richard Carr via Sprinklerforum]

Is it a grid, tree, or loop?

Richard M. Carr, SET
Project Manager/Design
Diboco Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
325 Jackson Loop Road
Flat Rock, NC  28731

rich...@diboco.com
828-696-3400
828-696-2288 Fax
828-708-9118 Mobile

[cid:image001.jpg@01D5AC13.297D47D0]

From: Sprinklerforum  On Behalf 
Of Brian Harris via Sprinklerforum
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2020 2:09 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Cc: Brian Harris 
Subject: Overhead / Friction Loss

What's a good "ballpark" number to include for pressure loss due to friction 
when guesstimating system demand? I figure EHP, Elevation, Underground, BFP. 
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Brian Harris, CET
BVS Systems Inc.
Design Manager
bvssystemsinc.com
Phone: 704.896.9989
Fax: 704.896.1935

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