[Sprinklerforum] Re: Protecting underground storage of explosives.

[Ron Greenman]

https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IFC2018/CHAPTER-56-EXPLOSIVES-AND-FIREWORKS?site_type=public

On Sat, Apr 6, 2024 at 1:20 PM Prahl, Craig  wrote:

> Munitions and explosives are typically protected via separation.  On
> military projects, storage areas such as these are either semi-subterranean
> (partially earthen covered bunker), or just physically separated from other
> structures by several hundred feet.
>
>
>
> I do hope the components are adequately separated.
>
>
>
> Fire is usually not an issue in these spaces since there should be very
> stringent controls on ignition sources.  So, we don’t waste money on
> sprinklers or other types of suppression systems.  They just aren’t going
> to stop an explosion event.  Once it’s done, it’s done.
>
>
>
> You can take a look at UFC 4-420-01, May 2015 for the way munitions and
> explosive storage is handled by the military.  UFC = Unified Facilities
> Criteria.  You can search for it on-line.  There are no restrictions for
> access.
>
>
>
> You’d also have to  deal with sprinkler run-off and being underground,
> that might be a big challenge.
>
>
>
> So, basically, this isn’t a sprinkler contractor project.
>
>
>
> Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Fire Protection SME – Special Hazards |
> craig.pr...@jacobs.com | www.jacobs.com
> 
>
> 1041 East Butler Road   Greenville, South Carolina  29606
>
> CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Chris Dorn 
> *Sent:* Friday, April 5, 2024 4:05 PM
> *To:* sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Protecting underground storage of
> explosives.
>
>
>
> Trying to help a friend of a friend. Has anyone ever provided any type of
> fire suppression system for underground storage of ANFO (Ammoniun Nitrate
> and fuel oil mixture)? The area in question is in a limestone mine
> underground. The space is pretty large and has 30’ ceilings so I’m guessing
> that chemical suppression is not going to be an option. I tend to believe
> that sprinklers may not be the route to go. Water will apparently render
> the ANFO inert but in case of a fire I’m not sure that the sprinklers could
> operate fast enough to provide any real protection. Additionally, the water
> supply is inadequate for almost any type of sprinkler system anyway.
>
>
>
> I’m not really finding much in NFPA except Annex C in NFPA 495 which
> refers to separation distances. I did find a reference to NFPA 490 2002
> Edition but cannot find a current code so I’m guessing it was folded into
> 495 at some point.
>
>
>
> Any direction at all would be appreciated to help me in my research.
>
>
>
> Chris Dorn
>
> Dorn Fire Protection LLC
>
>
>
> --
>
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[Sprinklerforum] Re: Protecting underground storage of explosives.

[Prahl, Craig]

Munitions and explosives are typically protected via separation.  On military 
projects, storage areas such as these are either semi-subterranean (partially 
earthen covered bunker), or just physically separated from other structures by 
several hundred feet.

I do hope the components are adequately separated.

Fire is usually not an issue in these spaces since there should be very 
stringent controls on ignition sources.  So, we don't waste money on sprinklers 
or other types of suppression systems.  They just aren't going to stop an 
explosion event.  Once it's done, it's done.

You can take a look at UFC 4-420-01, May 2015 for the way munitions and 
explosive storage is handled by the military.  UFC = Unified Facilities 
Criteria.  You can search for it on-line.  There are no restrictions for access.

You'd also have to  deal with sprinkler run-off and being underground, that 
might be a big challenge.

So, basically, this isn't a sprinkler contractor project.

Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Fire Protection SME - Special Hazards | 
craig.pr...@jacobs.com | 
www.jacobs.com
1041 East Butler Road   Greenville, South Carolina  29606
CONTACT BY: Phone 1-864-676-5252, Email or MS TEAMS


From: Chris Dorn 
Sent: Friday, April 5, 2024 4:05 PM
To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] [Sprinklerforum] Protecting underground storage of 
explosives.

Trying to help a friend of a friend. Has anyone ever provided any type of fire 
suppression system for underground storage of ANFO (Ammoniun Nitrate and fuel 
oil mixture)? The area in question is in a limestone mine underground. The 
space is pretty large and has 30' ceilings so I'm guessing that chemical 
suppression is not going to be an option. I tend to believe that sprinklers may 
not be the route to go. Water will apparently render the ANFO inert but in case 
of a fire I'm not sure that the sprinklers could operate fast enough to provide 
any real protection. Additionally, the water supply is inadequate for almost 
any type of sprinkler system anyway.

I'm not really finding much in NFPA except Annex C in NFPA 495 which refers to 
separation distances. I did find a reference to NFPA 490 2002 Edition but 
cannot find a current code so I'm guessing it was folded into 495 at some point.

Any direction at all would be appreciated to help me in my research.

Chris Dorn
Dorn Fire Protection LLC




NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information 
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distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended recipients is 
strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify 
us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.

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[Sprinklerforum] Re: Protecting underground storage of explosives.

[Bob Caputo]

Chris,

When I worked in the Kansas City area in the ‘80’s we installed sprinklers
in hundreds of thousands of square feet of limestone caves.  I was not
aware that hazardous materials were permitted to be stored underground.  At
the time, most was restricted to philatelic, wine, paper records and not
much more than Class IV products.

The problem I see right off the bat, is secondary containment of the
sprinkler water runoff.  There are super fast deluge systems but not sure
deflagration hazards are a good match for subterranian storage
opportunities.

 my two cents

Bob


Bob Caputo, CFPS
*President*

*American Fire Sprinkler Association*
p: 214-349-5965 ext124
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On Fri, Apr 5, 2024 at 3:05 PM Chris Dorn 
wrote:

> Trying to help a friend of a friend. Has anyone ever provided any type of
> fire suppression system for underground storage of ANFO (Ammoniun Nitrate
> and fuel oil mixture)? The area in question is in a limestone mine
> underground. The space is pretty large and has 30’ ceilings so I’m guessing
> that chemical suppression is not going to be an option. I tend to believe
> that sprinklers may not be the route to go. Water will apparently render
> the ANFO inert but in case of a fire I’m not sure that the sprinklers could
> operate fast enough to provide any real protection. Additionally, the water
> supply is inadequate for almost any type of sprinkler system anyway.
>
>
>
> I’m not really finding much in NFPA except Annex C in NFPA 495 which
> refers to separation distances. I did find a reference to NFPA 490 2002
> Edition but cannot find a current code so I’m guessing it was folded into
> 495 at some point.
>
>
>
> Any direction at all would be appreciated to help me in my research.
>
>
>
> Chris Dorn
>
> Dorn Fire Protection LLC
>
>
>
> _
> SprinklerForum mailing list:
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