RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons
You might also want to check the local state licensing requirements. Many states have specific license requirements for inspections; some require CE credits to maintain the license. North Carolina for example offers a way for companies to do some of there own visual inspections but it is limited. Roland is certainly correct about NFPA-25 committee continually discussing these issues. Please refer to scope of 25 before asking for design review. Someone can certainly ask for a design review but in addition to and not to be confused as part of 25. Top Myers RelMark Group 961 Pottstown Pike Chester Springs, PA 19425 610-321-2415 X-219 Cell 610-952-0965 tmy...@relmarkgroup.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2012 12:00 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons add to the definition ACCEPTABLE TO THE AHJ. There is an expectation that industrial facilities etc will have a maintenance staff that performs much of the ITM inspections. A lot of discussion on this topic during the recent ROC meeting. Roland On Oct 17, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Steve Leyton wrote: 4.1.1.2 Inspection, testing and maintenance shall be performed by personnel who have developed competence through training and experience. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attach ments/20121017/351959af/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Qualified NFPA 25 Persons: Qualifications
In terms of tort law, how can you possibly define the requirements of 4.1.1.2? In the same way we define and justify the qualifications of an expert witness? Expert witnesses and inspectors, in fact all professionals, should clearly state at the beginning and end of their interpretations and declarations, who is paying them. scot deal excelsior fire engineering -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20121018/b6e43b3f/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Qualified NFPA 25 Persons
What are the qualifications for an NFPA 25 sprinkler system inspector? Seems pretty open ended to me. We routinely look for NICET qualifications for designers but what about the inspectors? I'm trying to establish a specification for NFPA 25 inspections and originally thought I'd say qualified persons per NFPA 25 but now I'm not so sure. Is there a NICET program focused on inspections? Thank you. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons
NICET has a fire protection engineering technology: Inspection and Testing of Water-Based Systems. In DE we require all sprinkler inspectors to obtain a water based certification. Duane Fox, Jr., CFPS, CFI, CFPE DE State Fire Marshal's Office -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:47 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons What are the qualifications for an NFPA 25 sprinkler system inspector? Seems pretty open ended to me. We routinely look for NICET qualifications for designers but what about the inspectors? I'm trying to establish a specification for NFPA 25 inspections and originally thought I'd say qualified persons per NFPA 25 but now I'm not so sure. Is there a NICET program focused on inspections? Thank you. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons
Bill, NICET has an excellent program for Sprinkler Inspectors and many states like North Carolina use this program for licensing of individual Inspectors and for licensing of Companies. George George Wagner Executive Director American Fire Sprinkler Association Virginia Chapter 4558 Sandy Valley Road Mechanicsville, Virginia 23111 Home-804-779-3921 Cell-804-514-3154 wagn...@mindspring.com www.afsavirginia.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:47 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons What are the qualifications for an NFPA 25 sprinkler system inspector? Seems pretty open ended to me. We routinely look for NICET qualifications for designers but what about the inspectors? I'm trying to establish a specification for NFPA 25 inspections and originally thought I'd say qualified persons per NFPA 25 but now I'm not so sure. Is there a NICET program focused on inspections? Thank you. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons
Yes there is. More info can be found at nicet.org Mike Hill -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:47 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons What are the qualifications for an NFPA 25 sprinkler system inspector? Seems pretty open ended to me. We routinely look for NICET qualifications for designers but what about the inspectors? I'm trying to establish a specification for NFPA 25 inspections and originally thought I'd say qualified persons per NFPA 25 but now I'm not so sure. Is there a NICET program focused on inspections? Thank you. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons
And I believe the Academy is certifying the inspectors in FL and other locales as an alternative to NICET. George L. Church, Jr., CET Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Wagner Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:59 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons Bill, NICET has an excellent program for Sprinkler Inspectors and many states like North Carolina use this program for licensing of individual Inspectors and for licensing of Companies. George George Wagner Executive Director American Fire Sprinkler Association Virginia Chapter 4558 Sandy Valley Road Mechanicsville, Virginia 23111 Home-804-779-3921 Cell-804-514-3154 wagn...@mindspring.com www.afsavirginia.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:47 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons What are the qualifications for an NFPA 25 sprinkler system inspector? Seems pretty open ended to me. We routinely look for NICET qualifications for designers but what about the inspectors? I'm trying to establish a specification for NFPA 25 inspections and originally thought I'd say qualified persons per NFPA 25 but now I'm not so sure. Is there a NICET program focused on inspections? Thank you. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons
NFPA 25:4.1.1.2 says they must be competent through training and experience. You can use NFPA 1031 as a reference as well. This standard has 3 levels for fire inspectors. Note, this is for overall knowledge, not just NFPA 25 systems. Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time -Original Message- From: Bill Brooks [mailto:bill.bro...@brooksfpe.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:47 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons What are the qualifications for an NFPA 25 sprinkler system inspector? Seems pretty open ended to me. We routinely look for NICET qualifications for designers but what about the inspectors? I'm trying to establish a specification for NFPA 25 inspections and originally thought I'd say qualified persons per NFPA 25 but now I'm not so sure. Is there a NICET program focused on inspections? Thank you. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons
TDA has inspected these facilities. But please back to the question. How to apply the standard? When chapter 8.6.5.2.2.1 says that the 70% mesh curtain with a 22 from ceiling to bottom of mesh shall not be considered as an obstruction why do we even have to discuss it? Why can't they be accepted, as is, until the standard is changed? -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:29 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons And I believe the Academy is certifying the inspectors in FL and other locales as an alternative to NICET. George L. Church, Jr., CET Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc. PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842 877-324-ROWE 570-837-6335 fax g...@rowesprinkler.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Wagner Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:59 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons Bill, NICET has an excellent program for Sprinkler Inspectors and many states like North Carolina use this program for licensing of individual Inspectors and for licensing of Companies. George George Wagner Executive Director American Fire Sprinkler Association Virginia Chapter 4558 Sandy Valley Road Mechanicsville, Virginia 23111 Home-804-779-3921 Cell-804-514-3154 wagn...@mindspring.com www.afsavirginia.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:47 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons What are the qualifications for an NFPA 25 sprinkler system inspector? Seems pretty open ended to me. We routinely look for NICET qualifications for designers but what about the inspectors? I'm trying to establish a specification for NFPA 25 inspections and originally thought I'd say qualified persons per NFPA 25 but now I'm not so sure. Is there a NICET program focused on inspections? Thank you. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons
NFPA 25 makes a couple of references to technical expertise: 4.1.1.2 Inspection, testing and maintenance shall be performed by personnel who have developed competence through training and experience. 4.1.4.2 Corrections and repairs shall be performed by qualified maintenance personnel or a qualified contractor. Now the obvious trip wire is that none of these terms are defined. Nor can you draw a line to any distinct or uniformly accepted standard of care within our industry that defines qualified or what measure of competence is enough. And since 25 has evolved contextually, it now reads as a directive to the owner, who is empowered to designate a representative as the responsible charge for compliance, and also to use any forces they deem fit to undertake the work, which could include employees OR 3rd party providers. Some states require that there be an annual, or every three years, or every five years certification of systems by a licensed or certified service provider but that's a statutory requirement and not within the scope of 25. Any and all required inspections between that certification interval can be by whomever the owner chooses to do the work, presuming conformance to the language of 4.1.1.2. Unfortunately, I've become cynical over the years to the extent that I look at everything through glasses that read, What would happen if it goes to a lawsuit? In terms of tort law, how can you possibly define the requirements of 4.1.1.2? Steve Leyton -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 6:37 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons NFPA 25:4.1.1.2 says they must be competent through training and experience. You can use NFPA 1031 as a reference as well. This standard has 3 levels for fire inspectors. Note, this is for overall knowledge, not just NFPA 25 systems. Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time -Original Message- From: Bill Brooks [mailto:bill.bro...@brooksfpe.com] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 8:47 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons What are the qualifications for an NFPA 25 sprinkler system inspector? Seems pretty open ended to me. We routinely look for NICET qualifications for designers but what about the inspectors? I'm trying to establish a specification for NFPA 25 inspections and originally thought I'd say qualified persons per NFPA 25 but now I'm not so sure. Is there a NICET program focused on inspections? Thank you. Bill Brooks William N. Brooks, P.E. Brooks Fire Protection Engineering Inc. 372 Wilett Drive Severna Park, MD 21146-1904 410-544-3620 410-544-3032 FAX 412-400-6528 Cell ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Re: Qualified NFPA 25 Persons
add to the definition ACCEPTABLE TO THE AHJ. There is an expectation that industrial facilities etc will have a maintenance staff that performs much of the ITM inspections. A lot of discussion on this topic during the recent ROC meeting. Roland On Oct 17, 2012, at 5:45 AM, Steve Leyton wrote: 4.1.1.2 Inspection, testing and maintenance shall be performed by personnel who have developed competence through training and experience. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20121017/351959af/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
