RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
The following link is a good resource to provide. It identifies college programs of all sorts, salary facts, a guide to scholarships, etc. http://careers.sfpe.org/ Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time -Original Message- From: Reza Esmaeili [mailto:rezaesmaeili...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:39 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations Hi My friend!How are you?I have plenty of fire protection videos in my Dropbox, you can join my Dropbox clicking this link (http://db.tt/MffeCiji) you can enjoy watching and downloading them, some of them are very useful for training purposes, I suggest you first download the below video which is explaining different kinds of sprinkler systems.https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6nxtz30wj52sq7/Sprinkler%20Systems%20Introduction-Wormald.mpg I have also made a Powerpoint presentation myself, it's simple but worth downloading!https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6phdlxj9ipc36d7/bVTjzWQYKR/Fire%20Extinguishing%20Systems%20Seminar.ppt Warm Regards,Reza EsmaeiliSarian System Novinwww.sarian.ir --- On Tue, 2/5/13, craig.pr...@ch2m.com craig.pr...@ch2m.com wrote: From: craig.pr...@ch2m.com craig.pr...@ch2m.com Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2013, 6:04 PM We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20130208/8e3ec280/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Re: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
scot, you are my choice as our representative in congress. Such an eloquent and intelligent response truly moves me. Honestly, I enjoy all of your posts. To most, I am just a guy that hangs the pipe. In reality, I feel that life safety is my life's calling. I truly care whether my work is going to save lives. Cecil, you are awesome too. Your honest enthusiasm gives me hope that we can eventually put sprinklers everywhere that they belong. Your students must feel as I do when you are done with them. My grandfather, Hank Crain, instilled a sense of virtue associated with our profession that struck me deeply. I try to pass this on to every helper that I touch. On topic, I agree with the ideas of current events tied to past events then leading into real life. Reality vs. media inconceptions. Kids today are very smart and debunking myths is a key to gaining their confidence. PS: Anyone that knows my grandpa please message me. He kept drawing until a couple of years ago because of finances, lost my grandmother last year. He could definitely use some cheering up. I believe he was instrumental in AFSA back in the day. Henry (Hank) Crain Jr., Orlando Automatic, (Disney Magic Kingdom) On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] johnson...@mail.nih.gov wrote: The following link is a good resource to provide. It identifies college programs of all sorts, salary facts, a guide to scholarships, etc. http://careers.sfpe.org/ Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time -Original Message- From: Reza Esmaeili [mailto:rezaesmaeili...@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, February 08, 2013 1:39 PM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations Hi My friend!How are you?I have plenty of fire protection videos in my Dropbox, you can join my Dropbox clicking this link (http://db.tt/MffeCiji) you can enjoy watching and downloading them, some of them are very useful for training purposes, I suggest you first download the below video which is explaining different kinds of sprinkler systems. https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6nxtz30wj52sq7/Sprinkler%20Systems%20Introduction-Wormald.mpg I have also made a Powerpoint presentation myself, it's simple but worth downloading! https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6phdlxj9ipc36d7/bVTjzWQYKR/Fire%20Extinguishing%20Systems%20Seminar.ppt Warm Regards,Reza EsmaeiliSarian System Novinwww.sarian.ir --- On Tue, 2/5/13, craig.pr...@ch2m.com craig.pr...@ch2m.com wrote: From: craig.pr...@ch2m.com craig.pr...@ch2m.com Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2013, 6:04 PM We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20130208/8e3ec280/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20130211/91599c73/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Re: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
Hi My friend!How are you?I have plenty of fire protection videos in my Dropbox, you can join my Dropbox clicking this link (http://db.tt/MffeCiji) you can enjoy watching and downloading them, some of them are very useful for training purposes, I suggest you first download the below video which is explaining different kinds of sprinkler systems.https://www.dropbox.com/s/d6nxtz30wj52sq7/Sprinkler%20Systems%20Introduction-Wormald.mpg I have also made a Powerpoint presentation myself, it's simple but worth downloading!https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6phdlxj9ipc36d7/bVTjzWQYKR/Fire%20Extinguishing%20Systems%20Seminar.ppt Warm Regards,Reza EsmaeiliSarian System Novinwww.sarian.ir --- On Tue, 2/5/13, craig.pr...@ch2m.com craig.pr...@ch2m.com wrote: From: craig.pr...@ch2m.com craig.pr...@ch2m.com Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2013, 6:04 PM We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20130208/8e3ec280/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
SFPE has some videos/presentation to promote FPE. You can also contact Jim Milke at the University of MD. Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time -Original Message- From: craig.pr...@ch2m.com [mailto:craig.pr...@ch2m.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:34 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
Who are you presenting to? Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II Sales Engineer Alliance Fire Protection 130 w 9th Ave. North Kansas City, MO 64116 *Licensed in KS MO 913.888.0647 ph 913.888.0618 f 913.927.0222 cell www. AFPsprink.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of craig.pr...@ch2m.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:34 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
This would be local High School students. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Matt Grise Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:43 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations Who are you presenting to? Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II Sales Engineer Alliance Fire Protection 130 w 9th Ave. North Kansas City, MO 64116 *Licensed in KS MO 913.888.0647 ph 913.888.0618 f 913.927.0222 cell www. AFPsprink.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of craig.pr...@ch2m.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:34 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Re: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
I do this all the time. Find a couple of short videos they can relate to. What I use as a start is a little program about The Physics of Baseball produced by KQED. I also use something with a dramatic fire. There's a couple of good chemistry things actually being presented to high schoolers available from SFPE (I can't think of the guy's name doing the demo right now but I can see his face in my mind and I you know who he is--is/was President). Ask for questions right after any specific thing you do. Be flexible with your presentation, let them lead, you can't possibly tell them everything, you're planned presentation isn't on stone tablets, so the pieces they get are as good as any other and you want them to get the presentation. They'l be more engaged if you're showing them and talking with them, than talking too them. I prefer middle schoolers. They're on the cusp of being jaded, bored as a statement of cool, and being distracted by sex, but on the other hand they are still very much children. High schoolers are harder to grab, but are more attentive if you're successful. I will say that this fire stuff is easy because they are filled with the myth and magic of the general population and you have all those movies that you can shoot to hell,that will catch their attention. Bon chance. On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 8:32 AM, craig.pr...@ch2m.com wrote: This would be local High School students. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Matt Grise Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:43 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations Who are you presenting to? Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II Sales Engineer Alliance Fire Protection 130 w 9th Ave. North Kansas City, MO 64116 *Licensed in KS MO 913.888.0647 ph 913.888.0618 f 913.927.0222 cell www. AFPsprink.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of craig.pr...@ch2m.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:34 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20130205/c3fbe6c0/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
I like the idea of linking significant fire events to corresponding advances in fire protection and code development. Use of examples such as photos of fires that destroyed major portions of US cities (San Francisco, Chicago, Baltimore - most cities have had a significant fire) and link these photos to early efforts to develop building codes. Explain the evolution of codes from the aspect of preventing the destruction of neighboring property (substantial construction materials) to where we are today in theoretically preventing multiple life loss (sprinkler system installation). Note the corresponding fire testing that has followed major fire events like fire resistance testing that began with studies of fuel loading in buildings and the development of the time/temperature curve. Maybe cite the GM fire at Livonia Michigan where the roof burned off an entire building. Then there is the Our Lady of Angels fire in Chicago that resulted in the E84 test which of course was used to classify foam plastics until we found that foam burned differently when it was installed vertically which resulted in yet another test method. I'd note the Cape Canaveral pad fire when three astronauts were killed and the resulting changes based on high oxygen concentrations. Then the 9/11 towers collapse where CFD modeling and other methods are used to explain some of the events of that day. You could look at the various testing agencies that develop new technology or products using actual fire testing. Maybe a rack test from UL or FM would be a good video clip. I'd also note the efforts of the three persons in the U.S. who have made fire protection engineering a profession. John Bryan, founder of the MD FPE program, who stayed with this program and its eventual accreditation even though he could have moved in other directions throughout his career. Bud Nelson, instigator of engineering methods, who saw the possibilities of transferring mathematical methods to prediction of fire effects and the development of performance design through the goal oriented systems approach. Rolf Jensen, who was part of the Illinois Institute of Technology program till he found the rewards of consulting following the McCormick Place fire in Chicago. For something to take home with the students, perhaps assign them the task of determining if their homes have smoke detectors, if their family has a pre-fire plan, if their smoke detectors are photoelectric or ionization, and whether they have CO detection in case of fireplaces, fuel gas appliances, or attached garages. All of this is engineering in one form or another and the idea is not to focus just on a sprinkler going off and fixing all our problems (even this would go a long way toward that end). Excuse my MD bias, I can't help myself. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of craig.pr...@ch2m.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:34 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
Re: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
Just did one for Sea Scouts (think High Schoolers). General format: Station Night Club Fire - Video Station Night Club Fire - People Movement Computer Model Means of Egress Alarms with Emergency Forces Notification Sprinklers (not like in Matrix) Human behavior Take Home Points - We learn from each experience - What we learn from fires helps us with other emergencies - Systems that help you - Time Distance (alert, extinguishment, people movement) - Know the way out - maybe not the way you came in! - Start early and keep your distance (don't trip/fall) Got a note from one of the older Scouts/attendees referring to Brazil Nightclub: When will we learn? Tom Tom Scheidel cmscomplia...@yahoo.com cms911.com 817-456-6238 Scheidel Associates Sent from my IPad On Feb 5, 2013, at 12:50, Bill Brooks bill.bro...@brooksfpe.com wrote: I like the idea of linking significant fire events to corresponding advances in fire protection and code development. Use of examples such as photos of fires that destroyed major portions of US cities (San Francisco, Chicago, Baltimore - most cities have had a significant fire) and link these photos to early efforts to develop building codes. Explain the evolution of codes from the aspect of preventing the destruction of neighboring property (substantial construction materials) to where we are today in theoretically preventing multiple life loss (sprinkler system installation). Note the corresponding fire testing that has followed major fire events like fire resistance testing that began with studies of fuel loading in buildings and the development of the time/temperature curve. Maybe cite the GM fire at Livonia Michigan where the roof burned off an entire building. Then there is the Our Lady of Angels fire in Chicago that resulted in the E84 test which of course was used to classify foam plastics until we found that foam burned differently when it was installed vertically which resulted in yet another test method. I'd note the Cape Canaveral pad fire when three astronauts were killed and the resulting changes based on high oxygen concentrations. Then the 9/11 towers collapse where CFD modeling and other methods are used to explain some of the events of that day. You could look at the various testing agencies that develop new technology or products using actual fire testing. Maybe a rack test from UL or FM would be a good video clip. I'd also note the efforts of the three persons in the U.S. who have made fire protection engineering a profession. John Bryan, founder of the MD FPE program, who stayed with this program and its eventual accreditation even though he could have moved in other directions throughout his career. Bud Nelson, instigator of engineering methods, who saw the possibilities of transferring mathematical methods to prediction of fire effects and the development of performance design through the goal oriented systems approach. Rolf Jensen, who was part of the Illinois Institute of Technology program till he found the rewards of consulting following the McCormick Place fire in Chicago. For something to take home with the students, perhaps assign them the task of determining if their homes have smoke detectors, if their family has a pre-fire plan, if their smoke detectors are photoelectric or ionization, and whether they have CO detection in case of fireplaces, fuel gas appliances, or attached garages. All of this is engineering in one form or another and the idea is not to focus just on a sprinkler going off and fixing all our problems (even this would go a long way toward that end). Excuse my MD bias, I can't help myself. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of craig.pr...@ch2m.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:34 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Re: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
Tom Inspired idea throwing in the cueing model. It adds a STEM aspect to the presentation. Bv -Original message- From: Tom Scheidel cmscomplia...@yahoo.com To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Cc: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Sent: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 19:35:52 GMT+00:00 Subject: Re: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations Just did one for Sea Scouts (think High Schoolers). General format: Station Night Club Fire - Video Station Night Club Fire - People Movement Computer Model Means of Egress Alarms with Emergency Forces Notification Sprinklers (not like in Matrix) Human behavior Take Home Points - We learn from each experience - What we learn from fires helps us with other emergencies - Systems that help you - Time Distance (alert, extinguishment, people movement) - Know the way out - maybe not the way you came in! - Start early and keep your distance (don't trip/fall) Got a note from one of the older Scouts/attendees referring to Brazil Nightclub: When will we learn? Tom Tom Scheidel cmscomplia...@yahoo.com cms911.com 817-456-6238 Scheidel Associates Sent from my IPad On Feb 5, 2013, at 12:50, Bill Brooks bill.bro...@brooksfpe.com wrote: I like the idea of linking significant fire events to corresponding advances in fire protection and code development. Use of examples such as photos of fires that destroyed major portions of US cities (San Francisco, Chicago, Baltimore - most cities have had a significant fire) and link these photos to early efforts to develop building codes. Explain the evolution of codes from the aspect of preventing the destruction of neighboring property (substantial construction materials) to where we are today in theoretically preventing multiple life loss (sprinkler system installation). Note the corresponding fire testing that has followed major fire events like fire resistance testing that began with studies of fuel loading in buildings and the development of the time/temperature curve. Maybe cite the GM fire at Livonia Michigan where the roof burned off an entire building. Then there is the Our Lady of Angels fire in Chicago that resulted in the E84 test which of course was used to classify foam plastics until we found that foam burned differently when it was installed vertically which resulted in yet another test method. I'd note the Cape Canaveral pad fire when three astronauts were killed and the resulting changes based on high oxygen concentrations. Then the 9/11 towers collapse where CFD modeling and other methods are used to explain some of the events of that day. You could look at the various testing agencies that develop new technology or products using actual fire testing. Maybe a rack test from UL or FM would be a good video clip. I'd also note the efforts of the three persons in the U.S. who have made fire protection engineering a profession. John Bryan, founder of the MD FPE program, who stayed with this program and its eventual accreditation even though he could have moved in other directions throughout his career. Bud Nelson, instigator of engineering methods, who saw the possibilities of transferring mathematical methods to prediction of fire effects and the development of performance design through the goal oriented systems approach. Rolf Jensen, who was part of the Illinois Institute of Technology program till he found the rewards of consulting following the McCormick Place fire in Chicago. For something to take home with the students, perhaps assign them the task of determining if their homes have smoke detectors, if their family has a pre-fire plan, if their smoke detectors are photoelectric or ionization, and whether they have CO detection in case of fireplaces, fuel gas appliances, or attached garages. All of this is engineering in one form or another and the idea is not to focus just on a sprinkler going off and fixing all our problems (even this would go a long way toward that end). Excuse my MD bias, I can't help myself. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of craig.pr...@ch2m.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:34 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum
RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
CLP, Some time ago, I created a youtube channel for the Fire Sprinkler Academy. When making visits such as the one about which you are asking, I like to open with a discussion about how sprinklers are activated and at what temperatures. I throw a t-shirt or some other bling to the person that gets closest to being right. Someone always says, well they all go off duting that conversation. That leads me to say that I know why they think that.this leads to a point where I get pissed off at Hollywood and ask them to watch the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-06Q883QJAw Then I ask if they even knew there were jobs available in our field!! I ask how much they think they could make designing systems. then I show them this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-06Q883QJAw To say that I have a good time when I do this would be a huge understatement. But that is the entertainer in me. Good Luck. And feel free to let them know that we will have the degree program online this Fall!!! No matter where they are, they will be able to be trained in sprinkler system design!! The current page at Parkland College's website will updated soon: http://www.parkland.edu/academics/departments/est/sprinkler.aspx Sincerely, Cecil Bilbo Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology Champaign, IL 217.607.0325 www.sprinkleracademy.com ce...@sprinkleracademy.com Parkland College SST Program OUR STUDENTS SAVE LIVES!! From: craig.pr...@ch2m.com To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 16:32:20 + This would be local High School students. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Matt Grise Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:43 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations Who are you presenting to? Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II Sales Engineer Alliance Fire Protection 130 w 9th Ave. North Kansas City, MO 64116 *Licensed in KS MO 913.888.0647 ph 913.888.0618 f 913.927.0222 cell www. AFPsprink.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of craig.pr...@ch2m.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:34 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20130205/7537bb31/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
HA! Here is the Hollywood video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH1nIUUCwWIlist=UUKfW7-dGTEIM0gzBDWOVywQindex=10 Cecil Bilbo From: prodesigngr...@msn.com To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 14:21:14 -0600 CLP, Some time ago, I created a youtube channel for the Fire Sprinkler Academy. When making visits such as the one about which you are asking, I like to open with a discussion about how sprinklers are activated and at what temperatures. I throw a t-shirt or some other bling to the person that gets closest to being right. Someone always says, well they all go off duting that conversation. That leads me to say that I know why they think that.this leads to a point where I get pissed off at Hollywood and ask them to watch the following video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-06Q883QJAw Then I ask if they even knew there were jobs available in our field!! I ask how much they think they could make designing systems. then I show them this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-06Q883QJAw To say that I have a good time when I do this would be a huge understatement. But that is the entertainer in me. Good Luck. And feel free to let them know that we will have the degree program online this Fall!!! No matter where they are, they will be able to be trained in sprinkler system design!! The current page at Parkland College's website will updated soon: http://www.parkland.edu/academics/departments/est/sprinkler.aspx Sincerely, Cecil Bilbo Academy of Fire Sprinkler Technology Champaign, IL 217.607.0325 www.sprinkleracademy.com ce...@sprinkleracademy.com Parkland College SST Program OUR STUDENTS SAVE LIVES!! From: craig.pr...@ch2m.com To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2013 16:32:20 + This would be local High School students. Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Matt Grise Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 9:43 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations Who are you presenting to? Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP, NICET II Sales Engineer Alliance Fire Protection 130 w 9th Ave. North Kansas City, MO 64116 *Licensed in KS MO 913.888.0647 ph 913.888.0618 f 913.927.0222 cell www. AFPsprink.com -Original Message- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of craig.pr...@ch2m.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 8:34 AM To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org Subject: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations We have Engineers Week coming up in a couple of weeks and our industry has never had any representation for Fire Protection. I was wondering if anyone has done one of these type of presentations and had anything to use as a go-by? Craig L. Prahl, CET Fire Protection CH2MHILL Lockwood Greene 1500 International Drive Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - 864.599.4102 Fax - 864.599.8439 CH2MHILL Extension 74102 craig.pr...@ch2m.com ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20130205/7537bb31/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/private/sprinklerforum/attachments/20130205/2eef2cc4/attachment.html ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org
Re: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
It is great to see someone stepping up and mentioning the fire failures. For sure, that is where I learn more, because in the successes, we rarely think upon, or determine, how big the safety margin was. Sure, we may have an ASET/RSET safety margin, but it rarely conveys the information and likelihood of failure of other interface systems in a meaningful way. Failure is largely how most of us, and the Codes, have advanced. Face it--there is resistance to framing new prescriptive platforms due to their usual increased costs. I would most certainly mention that politics are unavoidable in construction design, where decisions to increase safety are met with resistance from interests that want to maximize profits. It is not code development that is the staple of construction design. Most construction engineers' duties involve reciting formulas and then copy and pasting prescriptions. Very few fire engineers are involved in the Code development process, and those that are realize the development process is rife with its own politics but with the same monetary interests. Where the construction technicians/engineers' work seems to become truly creative, (and is demanded far more frequently than scientific/technological creativity), is in the realm of psychologically placating different personalities: the monetary interests of the developers versus the interests of safety to those the fire professional is expected to protect. Without this balancing effort, and the subsequent transfer of responsibility onto the fire professional/engineer when design decisions fall outside of the protective cover of the prescriptive Codes, I doubt there would be a large need for fire protection engineers. Fiscal politics is an unavoidable reality in construction engineering, perhaps none better exemplified than by the struggle to save lives with residential fire sprinklers. The opposing political interest being the building lobby whose argument is 'fire sprinklers will leave more citizens homeless.' Each side has entrenched opinions, and it is no coincidence that each side's opinion is aligned with their pockets. Which way the decision goes (for or against residential sprinklers), is one area where fire engineering and fire risk assessment can (through social science, economics, and better predictions) can make a real contribution to society. I see one of the keys areas where versatile young minds can contribute to fire protection--is in the arena of highly interdisciplinary work with people, their personalities and their special interests. It seems an obligation to mention this political side of the job, so young minds can consider better the factors affecting a potentially lifelong decision. We will learn when to make good fire risk assessments when some bright, young, agile mind finds a way to express, and contemplate (and possibly quantify in a repeatable manner) the competing interests that tear at each decision whose probable outcome is tucked under the far end of the asymptotically diminishing cumulative distribution curve. Kiss nightclub? Yes, that was a partial F.A.I.L. on the fire protection community's part. Failure to effectively communicate, and motivate. Money it seems, is not always the best incentive. Kiss was fire # 5 of the dance club, overcrowding, combustible-lining genre. Fukushima is another case in point. Engineers had a hill next to the reactor to put the backup generators on. They decided to install in the tidal zone, closer to the reactor and save a couple million. But make a wrong prediction and lose trillions while forcing evacuation of 100,000 inhabitants... Young minds interested in construction engineering will find the time is ripe for their contribution to risk assessment. And it is going to involve some psychological hand-holding, because I don't see all the stakeholders queuing up to offer there frank opinions on publicly accepting the likelihood of failure for obvious disaster resulting from risk decisions. We won't always get these risk decisions right, but decision process needs to be made more transparent, balanced accurate and accountable. We need young minds to find and refine better tools that make decisions as simple as possible, regarding the uncertain and unknowable, but-definitely-recognizablerisky judgments that come with virtually every large construction project. Gladwell pointed out, that ER cardiac surgeons make far better diagnostic judgments when given *only 4 key pieces* of information on the incoming cardiac patient. The ER surgeons' decisions are critically important, as their judgments result in consequences far more immediate than decisions in construction (life, death). Previously, ER cardiac surgeons were given 15-25 different pieces of information to make their diagnoses with. After distilling the decision process down to 4 key pieces, successful ER treatments have dramatically improved. I think young minds that are contemplating
Re: Looking for ideas- Fire Protection Engineering presentations
Now that was an impressive posting. Sent from my iPhone On Feb 5, 2013, at 2:57 PM, å... eurekaig...@gmail.com wrote: It is great to see someone stepping up and mentioning the fire failures. For sure, that is where I learn more, because in the successes, we rarely think upon, or determine, how big the safety margin was. Sure, we may have an ASET/RSET safety margin, but it rarely conveys the information and likelihood of failure of other interface systems in a meaningful way. Failure is largely how most of us, and the Codes, have advanced. Face it--there is resistance to framing new prescriptive platforms due to their usual increased costs. I would most certainly mention that politics are unavoidable in construction design, where decisions to increase safety are met with resistance from interests that want to maximize profits. It is not code development that is the staple of construction design. Most construction engineers' duties involve reciting formulas and then copy and pasting prescriptions. Very few fire engineers are involved in the Code development process, and those that are realize the development process is rife with its own politics but with the same monetary interests. Where the construction technicians/engineers' work seems to become truly creative, (and is demanded far more frequently than scientific/technological creativity), is in the realm of psychologically placating different personalities: the monetary interests of the developers versus the interests of safety to those the fire professional is expected to protect. Without this balancing effort, and the subsequent transfer of responsibility onto the fire professional/engineer when design decisions fall outside of the protective cover of the prescriptive Codes, I doubt there would be a large need for fire protection engineers. Fiscal politics is an unavoidable reality in construction engineering, perhaps none better exemplified than by the struggle to save lives with residential fire sprinklers. The opposing political interest being the building lobby whose argument is 'fire sprinklers will leave more citizens homeless.' Each side has entrenched opinions, and it is no coincidence that each side's opinion is aligned with their pockets. Which way the decision goes (for or against residential sprinklers), is one area where fire engineering and fire risk assessment can (through social science, economics, and better predictions) can make a real contribution to society. I see one of the keys areas where versatile young minds can contribute to fire protection--is in the arena of highly interdisciplinary work with people, their personalities and their special interests. It seems an obligation to mention this political side of the job, so young minds can consider better the factors affecting a potentially lifelong decision. We will learn when to make good fire risk assessments when some bright, young, agile mind finds a way to express, and contemplate (and possibly quantify in a repeatable manner) the competing interests that tear at each decision whose probable outcome is tucked under the far end of the asymptotically diminishing cumulative distribution curve. Kiss nightclub? Yes, that was a partial F.A.I.L. on the fire protection community's part. Failure to effectively communicate, and motivate. Money it seems, is not always the best incentive. Kiss was fire # 5 of the dance club, overcrowding, combustible-lining genre. Fukushima is another case in point. Engineers had a hill next to the reactor to put the backup generators on. They decided to install in the tidal zone, closer to the reactor and save a couple million. But make a wrong prediction and lose trillions while forcing evacuation of 100,000 inhabitants... Young minds interested in construction engineering will find the time is ripe for their contribution to risk assessment. And it is going to involve some psychological hand-holding, because I don't see all the stakeholders queuing up to offer there frank opinions on publicly accepting the likelihood of failure for obvious disaster resulting from risk decisions. We won't always get these risk decisions right, but decision process needs to be made more transparent, balanced accurate and accountable. We need young minds to find and refine better tools that make decisions as simple as possible, regarding the uncertain and unknowable, but-definitely-recognizablerisky judgments that come with virtually every large construction project. Gladwell pointed out, that ER cardiac surgeons make far better diagnostic judgments when given *only 4 key pieces* of information on the incoming cardiac patient. The ER surgeons' decisions are critically important, as their judgments result in consequences far more immediate than decisions in construction (life, death). Previously, ER cardiac surgeons were given 15-25 different
