RE: Underground Piping Under Slab
Highly desirable is an understatement I assume? I'm just hoping this is a typographical thing. I sent an email to NFPA earlier this week on this - no response yet. So many more things could be done to make the online subscription more useful like having errata noted and having TIAs noted and linking all text changes directly to the ROP/ROC or whatever these are called now and maybe more. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 3:01 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Underground Piping Under Slab NFPA has at least temporarily stopped flagging the sections that have changed. Not sure how long this will continue. IT has been expressed pretty loudly that having the changes identified is highly desirable. Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org http://www.firesprinkler.org/ On Feb 20, 2015, at 11:45 AM, David Blackwell david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov wrote: When comparing NFPA 10.6.3.1 in my hard copy versions of the code and handbook, I noticed that while the language of 10.6.3.1 has changed in the 2013 edition to clarify the 10 ft distance, but the section was not marked as new in either the printed code, the handbook or the PDF version available through NFPA All-Access... Respectfully, David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFPE, CFI I Chief Engineer Office of State Fire Marshal SC Department of Labor, Licensing, Regulation, 141 Monticello Trail, Columbia, SC 29203 Telephone: 803.896.9800 [Office] 803.896.9833 [Direct] Fax: 803.896.9806 [Office] Email: david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov Website: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ Please note that you can sign up to receive automatic information on SC Division of Fire and Life Safety current events, policies, laws and procedures by visiting our Web site at: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of rfletc...@aerofire.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 9:33 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab 10.6.3.1* (13 Ed.) The requirements of 10.6.2(2) and 10.6.2(3) shall not apply where fire service mains enter under the building no more than 10 ft (3 m) as measured from the outside edge of the building to the center of the vertical pipe. Ron F -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 6:51 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab The new NFPA exception formatting is interesting. 10.6.1 categorically states not to do something, yet 10.6.2 allows it. Elimination of 10.6.1 seems the thing to do and would not change the intent. After all it's impossible to meet 10.6.1 unless you put the stub up in an exterior enclosure and route it through the exterior wall. Even the language in 10.6.3 is an exception to 10.6.1. How much inside the building is too much? If this is important it should be submitted as a Building, Plumbing, Mechanical Code change and removed from NFPA 13. So, like we see on TV, you should now clarify your meeting comments to say what you really meant was that as long as the plumbing inspector is OK with the special precautions so are you. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:57 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Underground Piping Under Slab I understand it's not typical to run the fire main under the building slab but if it's a must there are some precautions that must be taken as shown in 10.6.2 (2007). My question is are the (3) provisions that are mentioned all required or as a bare minimum? I'm working on a project and the architect has located the riser room in the center of the building, approximately 15' from the outside wall. I brought it to their attention that it's not the best idea and provided them the above code reference. Instead of appreciating the heads up I'm now the redheaded step child, go figure. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. Sprinkler Division bvssystemsinc.comhttp://bvssystemsinc.com/ Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl er.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http
RE: Underground Piping Under Slab
A line at some of the changes, but not all?!?!? SMH Jack Fairchild -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Matthew J Willis Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 3:13 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab Was there a reason given? R/ Matt -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 1:01 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Underground Piping Under Slab NFPA has at least temporarily stopped flagging the sections that have changed. Not sure how long this will continue. IT has been expressed pretty loudly that having the changes identified is highly desirable. Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org http://www.firesprinkler.org/ On Feb 20, 2015, at 11:45 AM, David Blackwell david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov wrote: When comparing NFPA 10.6.3.1 in my hard copy versions of the code and handbook, I noticed that while the language of 10.6.3.1 has changed in the 2013 edition to clarify the 10 ft distance, but the section was not marked as new in either the printed code, the handbook or the PDF version available through NFPA All-Access... Respectfully, David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFPE, CFI I Chief Engineer Office of State Fire Marshal SC Department of Labor, Licensing, Regulation, 141 Monticello Trail, Columbia, SC 29203 Telephone: 803.896.9800 [Office] 803.896.9833 [Direct] Fax: 803.896.9806 [Office] Email: david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov Website: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ Please note that you can sign up to receive automatic information on SC Division of Fire and Life Safety current events, policies, laws and procedures by visiting our Web site at: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of rfletc...@aerofire.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 9:33 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab 10.6.3.1* (13 Ed.) The requirements of 10.6.2(2) and 10.6.2(3) shall not apply where fire service mains enter under the building no more than 10 ft (3 m) as measured from the outside edge of the building to the center of the vertical pipe. Ron F -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 6:51 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab The new NFPA exception formatting is interesting. 10.6.1 categorically states not to do something, yet 10.6.2 allows it. Elimination of 10.6.1 seems the thing to do and would not change the intent. After all it's impossible to meet 10.6.1 unless you put the stub up in an exterior enclosure and route it through the exterior wall. Even the language in 10.6.3 is an exception to 10.6.1. How much inside the building is too much? If this is important it should be submitted as a Building, Plumbing, Mechanical Code change and removed from NFPA 13. So, like we see on TV, you should now clarify your meeting comments to say what you really meant was that as long as the plumbing inspector is OK with the special precautions so are you. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:57 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Underground Piping Under Slab I understand it's not typical to run the fire main under the building slab but if it's a must there are some precautions that must be taken as shown in 10.6.2 (2007). My question is are the (3) provisions that are mentioned all required or as a bare minimum? I'm working on a project and the architect has located the riser room in the center of the building, approximately 15' from the outside wall. I brought it to their attention that it's not the best idea and provided them the above code reference. Instead of appreciating the heads up I'm now the redheaded step child, go figure. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. Sprinkler Division bvssystemsinc.comhttp://bvssystemsinc.com/ Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl er.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi
RE: Underground Piping Under Slab
Just to clarify - the 2013 editions of NFPA 13 do have markings, it's just that this particular section was missed. Roland is correct - I previously found that the newest NFPA 54 edition was published by NFPA without the markings of changes traditionally found in their standards as called for by the NFPA Manual of Style, so I called and got confirmation from NFPA staff that it was intentional and expected for future editions of NFPA standards. I indicated my preference for continuing to use notations of some sort that that would help all users understand when changes have been made. Respectfully, David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFPE, CFI I Chief Engineer Office of State Fire Marshal SC Department of Labor, Licensing, Regulation, 141 Monticello Trail, Columbia, SC 29203 Telephone: 803.896.9800 [Office] 803.896.9833 [Direct] Fax: 803.896.9806 [Office] Email: david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov Website: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ Please note that you can sign up to receive automatic information on SC Division of Fire and Life Safety current events, policies, laws and procedures by visiting our Web site at: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 3:01 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Underground Piping Under Slab NFPA has at least temporarily stopped flagging the sections that have changed. Not sure how long this will continue. IT has been expressed pretty loudly that having the changes identified is highly desirable. Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org http://www.firesprinkler.org/ On Feb 20, 2015, at 11:45 AM, David Blackwell david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov wrote: When comparing NFPA 10.6.3.1 in my hard copy versions of the code and handbook, I noticed that while the language of 10.6.3.1 has changed in the 2013 edition to clarify the 10 ft distance, but the section was not marked as new in either the printed code, the handbook or the PDF version available through NFPA All-Access... Respectfully, David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFPE, CFI I Chief Engineer Office of State Fire Marshal SC Department of Labor, Licensing, Regulation, 141 Monticello Trail, Columbia, SC 29203 Telephone: 803.896.9800 [Office] 803.896.9833 [Direct] Fax: 803.896.9806 [Office] Email: david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov Website: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ Please note that you can sign up to receive automatic information on SC Division of Fire and Life Safety current events, policies, laws and procedures by visiting our Web site at: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of rfletc...@aerofire.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 9:33 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab 10.6.3.1* (13 Ed.) The requirements of 10.6.2(2) and 10.6.2(3) shall not apply where fire service mains enter under the building no more than 10 ft (3 m) as measured from the outside edge of the building to the center of the vertical pipe. Ron F -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 6:51 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab The new NFPA exception formatting is interesting. 10.6.1 categorically states not to do something, yet 10.6.2 allows it. Elimination of 10.6.1 seems the thing to do and would not change the intent. After all it's impossible to meet 10.6.1 unless you put the stub up in an exterior enclosure and route it through the exterior wall. Even the language in 10.6.3 is an exception to 10.6.1. How much inside the building is too much? If this is important it should be submitted as a Building, Plumbing, Mechanical Code change and removed from NFPA 13. So, like we see on TV, you should now clarify your meeting comments to say what you really meant was that as long as the plumbing inspector is OK with the special precautions so are you. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:57 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Underground Piping Under Slab I understand it's not typical to run the fire main under the building slab but if it's a must there are some precautions that must be taken as shown in 10.6.2 (2007). My question is are the (3) provisions that are mentioned all required or as a bare minimum? I'm working
RE: Underground Piping Under Slab
When comparing NFPA 10.6.3.1 in my hard copy versions of the code and handbook, I noticed that while the language of 10.6.3.1 has changed in the 2013 edition to clarify the 10 ft distance, but the section was not marked as new in either the printed code, the handbook or the PDF version available through NFPA All-Access... Respectfully, David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFPE, CFI I Chief Engineer Office of State Fire Marshal SC Department of Labor, Licensing, Regulation, 141 Monticello Trail, Columbia, SC 29203 Telephone: 803.896.9800 [Office] 803.896.9833 [Direct] Fax: 803.896.9806 [Office] Email: david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov Website: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ Please note that you can sign up to receive automatic information on SC Division of Fire and Life Safety current events, policies, laws and procedures by visiting our Web site at: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of rfletc...@aerofire.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 9:33 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab 10.6.3.1* (13 Ed.) The requirements of 10.6.2(2) and 10.6.2(3) shall not apply where fire service mains enter under the building no more than 10 ft (3 m) as measured from the outside edge of the building to the center of the vertical pipe. Ron F -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 6:51 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab The new NFPA exception formatting is interesting. 10.6.1 categorically states not to do something, yet 10.6.2 allows it. Elimination of 10.6.1 seems the thing to do and would not change the intent. After all it's impossible to meet 10.6.1 unless you put the stub up in an exterior enclosure and route it through the exterior wall. Even the language in 10.6.3 is an exception to 10.6.1. How much inside the building is too much? If this is important it should be submitted as a Building, Plumbing, Mechanical Code change and removed from NFPA 13. So, like we see on TV, you should now clarify your meeting comments to say what you really meant was that as long as the plumbing inspector is OK with the special precautions so are you. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:57 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Underground Piping Under Slab I understand it's not typical to run the fire main under the building slab but if it's a must there are some precautions that must be taken as shown in 10.6.2 (2007). My question is are the (3) provisions that are mentioned all required or as a bare minimum? I'm working on a project and the architect has located the riser room in the center of the building, approximately 15' from the outside wall. I brought it to their attention that it's not the best idea and provided them the above code reference. Instead of appreciating the heads up I'm now the redheaded step child, go figure. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. Sprinkler Division bvssystemsinc.comhttp://bvssystemsinc.com/ Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
Re: Underground Piping Under Slab
NFPA has at least temporarily stopped flagging the sections that have changed. Not sure how long this will continue. IT has been expressed pretty loudly that having the changes identified is highly desirable. Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org http://www.firesprinkler.org/ On Feb 20, 2015, at 11:45 AM, David Blackwell david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov wrote: When comparing NFPA 10.6.3.1 in my hard copy versions of the code and handbook, I noticed that while the language of 10.6.3.1 has changed in the 2013 edition to clarify the 10 ft distance, but the section was not marked as new in either the printed code, the handbook or the PDF version available through NFPA All-Access... Respectfully, David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFPE, CFI I Chief Engineer Office of State Fire Marshal SC Department of Labor, Licensing, Regulation, 141 Monticello Trail, Columbia, SC 29203 Telephone: 803.896.9800 [Office] 803.896.9833 [Direct] Fax: 803.896.9806 [Office] Email: david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov Website: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ Please note that you can sign up to receive automatic information on SC Division of Fire and Life Safety current events, policies, laws and procedures by visiting our Web site at: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of rfletc...@aerofire.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 9:33 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab 10.6.3.1* (13 Ed.) The requirements of 10.6.2(2) and 10.6.2(3) shall not apply where fire service mains enter under the building no more than 10 ft (3 m) as measured from the outside edge of the building to the center of the vertical pipe. Ron F -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 6:51 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab The new NFPA exception formatting is interesting. 10.6.1 categorically states not to do something, yet 10.6.2 allows it. Elimination of 10.6.1 seems the thing to do and would not change the intent. After all it's impossible to meet 10.6.1 unless you put the stub up in an exterior enclosure and route it through the exterior wall. Even the language in 10.6.3 is an exception to 10.6.1. How much inside the building is too much? If this is important it should be submitted as a Building, Plumbing, Mechanical Code change and removed from NFPA 13. So, like we see on TV, you should now clarify your meeting comments to say what you really meant was that as long as the plumbing inspector is OK with the special precautions so are you. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:57 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Underground Piping Under Slab I understand it's not typical to run the fire main under the building slab but if it's a must there are some precautions that must be taken as shown in 10.6.2 (2007). My question is are the (3) provisions that are mentioned all required or as a bare minimum? I'm working on a project and the architect has located the riser room in the center of the building, approximately 15' from the outside wall. I brought it to their attention that it's not the best idea and provided them the above code reference. Instead of appreciating the heads up I'm now the redheaded step child, go figure. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. Sprinkler Division bvssystemsinc.comhttp://bvssystemsinc.com/ Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
Re: Underground Piping Under Slab
Makes it more fun proving to a contractor that it's a NEW change. Ron fletcher Sent from my iPhone On Feb 20, 2015, at 3:01 PM, Roland Huggins rhugg...@firesprinkler.org wrote: NFPA has at least temporarily stopped flagging the sections that have changed. Not sure how long this will continue. IT has been expressed pretty loudly that having the changes identified is highly desirable. Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org http://www.firesprinkler.org/ On Feb 20, 2015, at 11:45 AM, David Blackwell david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov wrote: When comparing NFPA 10.6.3.1 in my hard copy versions of the code and handbook, I noticed that while the language of 10.6.3.1 has changed in the 2013 edition to clarify the 10 ft distance, but the section was not marked as new in either the printed code, the handbook or the PDF version available through NFPA All-Access... Respectfully, David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFPE, CFI I Chief Engineer Office of State Fire Marshal SC Department of Labor, Licensing, Regulation, 141 Monticello Trail, Columbia, SC 29203 Telephone: 803.896.9800 [Office] 803.896.9833 [Direct] Fax: 803.896.9806 [Office] Email: david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov Website: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ Please note that you can sign up to receive automatic information on SC Division of Fire and Life Safety current events, policies, laws and procedures by visiting our Web site at: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of rfletc...@aerofire.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 9:33 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab 10.6.3.1* (13 Ed.) The requirements of 10.6.2(2) and 10.6.2(3) shall not apply where fire service mains enter under the building no more than 10 ft (3 m) as measured from the outside edge of the building to the center of the vertical pipe. Ron F -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 6:51 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab The new NFPA exception formatting is interesting. 10.6.1 categorically states not to do something, yet 10.6.2 allows it. Elimination of 10.6.1 seems the thing to do and would not change the intent. After all it's impossible to meet 10.6.1 unless you put the stub up in an exterior enclosure and route it through the exterior wall. Even the language in 10.6.3 is an exception to 10.6.1. How much inside the building is too much? If this is important it should be submitted as a Building, Plumbing, Mechanical Code change and removed from NFPA 13. So, like we see on TV, you should now clarify your meeting comments to say what you really meant was that as long as the plumbing inspector is OK with the special precautions so are you. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:57 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Underground Piping Under Slab I understand it's not typical to run the fire main under the building slab but if it's a must there are some precautions that must be taken as shown in 10.6.2 (2007). My question is are the (3) provisions that are mentioned all required or as a bare minimum? I'm working on a project and the architect has located the riser room in the center of the building, approximately 15' from the outside wall. I brought it to their attention that it's not the best idea and provided them the above code reference. Instead of appreciating the heads up I'm now the redheaded step child, go figure. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. Sprinkler Division bvssystemsinc.comhttp://bvssystemsinc.com/ Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Underground Piping Under Slab
Was there a reason given? R/ Matt -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Roland Huggins Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 1:01 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Underground Piping Under Slab NFPA has at least temporarily stopped flagging the sections that have changed. Not sure how long this will continue. IT has been expressed pretty loudly that having the changes identified is highly desirable. Roland Huggins, PE - VP Engineering American Fire Sprinkler Assn. --- Fire Sprinklers Saves Lives Dallas, TX http://www.firesprinkler.org http://www.firesprinkler.org/ On Feb 20, 2015, at 11:45 AM, David Blackwell david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov wrote: When comparing NFPA 10.6.3.1 in my hard copy versions of the code and handbook, I noticed that while the language of 10.6.3.1 has changed in the 2013 edition to clarify the 10 ft distance, but the section was not marked as new in either the printed code, the handbook or the PDF version available through NFPA All-Access... Respectfully, David W. S. Blackwell, II, PE, CFPE, CFI I Chief Engineer Office of State Fire Marshal SC Department of Labor, Licensing, Regulation, 141 Monticello Trail, Columbia, SC 29203 Telephone: 803.896.9800 [Office] 803.896.9833 [Direct] Fax: 803.896.9806 [Office] Email: david.blackw...@llr.sc.gov Website: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ Please note that you can sign up to receive automatic information on SC Division of Fire and Life Safety current events, policies, laws and procedures by visiting our Web site at: http://www.scfiremarshal.llronline.com/ -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of rfletc...@aerofire.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 9:33 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab 10.6.3.1* (13 Ed.) The requirements of 10.6.2(2) and 10.6.2(3) shall not apply where fire service mains enter under the building no more than 10 ft (3 m) as measured from the outside edge of the building to the center of the vertical pipe. Ron F -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 6:51 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab The new NFPA exception formatting is interesting. 10.6.1 categorically states not to do something, yet 10.6.2 allows it. Elimination of 10.6.1 seems the thing to do and would not change the intent. After all it's impossible to meet 10.6.1 unless you put the stub up in an exterior enclosure and route it through the exterior wall. Even the language in 10.6.3 is an exception to 10.6.1. How much inside the building is too much? If this is important it should be submitted as a Building, Plumbing, Mechanical Code change and removed from NFPA 13. So, like we see on TV, you should now clarify your meeting comments to say what you really meant was that as long as the plumbing inspector is OK with the special precautions so are you. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:57 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Underground Piping Under Slab I understand it's not typical to run the fire main under the building slab but if it's a must there are some precautions that must be taken as shown in 10.6.2 (2007). My question is are the (3) provisions that are mentioned all required or as a bare minimum? I'm working on a project and the architect has located the riser room in the center of the building, approximately 15' from the outside wall. I brought it to their attention that it's not the best idea and provided them the above code reference. Instead of appreciating the heads up I'm now the redheaded step child, go figure. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. Sprinkler Division bvssystemsinc.comhttp://bvssystemsinc.com/ Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl er.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl er.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl er.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list
RE: Underground Piping Under Slab
The new NFPA exception formatting is interesting. 10.6.1 categorically states not to do something, yet 10.6.2 allows it. Elimination of 10.6.1 seems the thing to do and would not change the intent. After all it's impossible to meet 10.6.1 unless you put the stub up in an exterior enclosure and route it through the exterior wall. Even the language in 10.6.3 is an exception to 10.6.1. How much inside the building is too much? If this is important it should be submitted as a Building, Plumbing, Mechanical Code change and removed from NFPA 13. So, like we see on TV, you should now clarify your meeting comments to say what you really meant was that as long as the plumbing inspector is OK with the special precautions so are you. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:57 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Underground Piping Under Slab I understand it's not typical to run the fire main under the building slab but if it's a must there are some precautions that must be taken as shown in 10.6.2 (2007). My question is are the (3) provisions that are mentioned all required or as a bare minimum? I'm working on a project and the architect has located the riser room in the center of the building, approximately 15' from the outside wall. I brought it to their attention that it's not the best idea and provided them the above code reference. Instead of appreciating the heads up I'm now the redheaded step child, go figure. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. Sprinkler Division bvssystemsinc.comhttp://bvssystemsinc.com/ Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Underground Piping Under Slab
10.6.3.1* (13 Ed.) The requirements of 10.6.2(2) and 10.6.2(3) shall not apply where fire service mains enter under the building no more than 10 ft (3 m) as measured from the outside edge of the building to the center of the vertical pipe. Ron F -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 6:51 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab The new NFPA exception formatting is interesting. 10.6.1 categorically states not to do something, yet 10.6.2 allows it. Elimination of 10.6.1 seems the thing to do and would not change the intent. After all it's impossible to meet 10.6.1 unless you put the stub up in an exterior enclosure and route it through the exterior wall. Even the language in 10.6.3 is an exception to 10.6.1. How much inside the building is too much? If this is important it should be submitted as a Building, Plumbing, Mechanical Code change and removed from NFPA 13. So, like we see on TV, you should now clarify your meeting comments to say what you really meant was that as long as the plumbing inspector is OK with the special precautions so are you. Bill Brooks -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:57 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Underground Piping Under Slab I understand it's not typical to run the fire main under the building slab but if it's a must there are some precautions that must be taken as shown in 10.6.2 (2007). My question is are the (3) provisions that are mentioned all required or as a bare minimum? I'm working on a project and the architect has located the riser room in the center of the building, approximately 15' from the outside wall. I brought it to their attention that it's not the best idea and provided them the above code reference. Instead of appreciating the heads up I'm now the redheaded step child, go figure. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. Sprinkler Division bvssystemsinc.comhttp://bvssystemsinc.com/ Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
RE: Underground Piping Under Slab
No - the primary reason is that fire service mains - combined or not - are large diameter pipes that would cause devastating damage if they (or their joints) were to fail below the slab. Along with the extensive damage is the additional damage that would be required to repair them after they failed, as well as the long period of down time without fire protection. It's just bad practice. Not to mention the fact that you are supposed to be able to run a full-flow main drain test regularly at the sprinkler riser. So there needs to be a plan for piping that drain back out to the exterior wall, or a provision for a large diameter sump/drain. But I'm sure the ME addressed that... Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | http://www.kfiengineers.com -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Dewayne Martinez Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 4:06 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: RE: Underground Piping Under Slab I have had this happen too and the GC did not seem to care because it was a combined water service and the plumbing inspector said it was fine. Could it be that it does not fall under fire protection rules until after the BFP for a combined service? -Original Message- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 3:57 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Underground Piping Under Slab I understand it's not typical to run the fire main under the building slab but if it's a must there are some precautions that must be taken as shown in 10.6.2 (2007). My question is are the (3) provisions that are mentioned all required or as a bare minimum? I'm working on a project and the architect has located the riser room in the center of the building, approximately 15' from the outside wall. I brought it to their attention that it's not the best idea and provided them the above code reference. Instead of appreciating the heads up I'm now the redheaded step child, go figure. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. Sprinkler Division bvssystemsinc.comhttp://bvssystemsinc.com/ Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935 ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.o rg ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org __ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com __ __ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com __ ___ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
