[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Daniel Gultsch]

Version 1.1.1 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been
released.

Abstract:
This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of
messages stored on a server.

Changelog:
Add XEP-0136 to superseded specifications (gdk)

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

Note: The information in the XEP list at https://xmpp.org/extensions/
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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[kevin . smith]

Version 1.1.0 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been
released.

Abstract:
This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of
messages stored on a server.

Changelog:
* Clarify archive metadata response in the case of an empty archive.
* Clarify query response in the case of no matching results. (mw)

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XSF Editor]

Version 0.8.0 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been
released.

Abstract:
This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of
messages stored on a server.

Changelog:
Update groupchat-messages-in-user-archive advice, introducing fields
and disco features to make behaviour explicit in future
implementations, in light of Last Call feedback. (ks)

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XEP Editor Pipeline]

Version 0.7.0 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been
released.

Abstract:
This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of
messages stored on a server.

Changelog:
Add 'before-id' and 'after-id' fields, flipped pages, single-item
retrieval and a new mandatory disco feature
Split preferences protocol into a separate document
Split the details of pubsub archives into a separate document (mw)

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XSF Editor]

Version 0.6.3 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been
released.

Abstract:
This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of
messages stored on a server.

Changelog:
Tweak the 'complete' wording to more clearly reflect original intent
(ks)

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XSF Editor]

Version 0.6.2 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been
released.

Abstract:
This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of
messages stored on a server.

Changelog:
Fix invalid statement about 'to' address of archive stanzas (bg)

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XMPP Extensions Editor]

Version 0.6.1 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.

Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
messages stored on a server.

Changelog: [See revision history] (mw)

Diff: https://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.6/vs/0.6.1

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Daniel Gultsch]

Hi,

first of all thank you Matt for the update.

> In the case of non-anonymous rooms or if the recipient of the MUC archive has 
> the right to access the sender real JID at the time of the query, the archive 
> message will use extended message information in an  element qualified by 
> the 'http://jabber.org/protocol/muc#user' namespace and containing an  
> child with a 'jid' attribute specifying the occupant's full JID, as defined 
> for non-anonymous room presence in Multi-User Chat (XEP-0045) [10].

This is still missing a bit on MUC archives having to sanitize (room)
the  element so it can not be spoofed by the original sender.

I believe this MUST happen for any muc archive and not just MUC
archives where the  element is sent.

Gruß
Daniel

2017-02-19 22:55 GMT+01:00 XMPP Extensions Editor :
> Version 0.6 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.
>
> Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
> messages stored on a server.
>
> Changelog: [See revision history] (dg, mw)
>
> Diff: https://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.5.1/vs/0.6
>
> URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html
>
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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XMPP Extensions Editor]

Version 0.6 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.

Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
messages stored on a server.

Changelog: [See revision history] (dg, mw)

Diff: https://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.5.1/vs/0.6

URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Kevin Smith]

> On 13 Jun 2016, at 11:41, Matthew Wild  wrote:
> 
> On 12 June 2016 at 12:39, Daniel Gultsch  wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm bumping this thread since it hasn't yielded too many responses since I
>> originally voiced my concerns.
>> 
>> To briefly summarize the matter again.
>> 1) XEP-0313 Section 5.1.2 describes a way for a server to inject the
>> original / real jid into MUC messages.
>> 2) This is a very useful addition to the spec in principal, however…
>> 3) As a client I can't trust this information without a namespace bump.
>> 
>> This means I would love to implement this in my client but I can't.
>> 
>> So I would strongly suggest to bump the namespace on MAM ASAP. However
>> bumping namespaces is not something we should do lightly and we should
>> consider doing other changes as well like the stanza-ids that have been
>> proposed over a year ago and are generally considered a good idea?
> 
> I have a new version of XEP-0313 nearly ready to submit. One of the
> open questions is whether to bump the namespace or not. I was
> originally leaning towards not. However, if we do, there are some
> extra small improvements we can make. I'll review your concerns (which
> weren't already on my list of issues until now, so thanks for
> re-raising them), and merge them into the new revision (which I'm
> expecting to be the last before Draft).
> 
> Meanwhile if anyone else has an opinion on this to share, now is the time.

What are the improvements if we bump?

/K

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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Kevin Smith]

> On 13 Jun 2016, at 11:49, Kevin Smith  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 13 Jun 2016, at 11:41, Matthew Wild  wrote:
>> 
>> On 12 June 2016 at 12:39, Daniel Gultsch  wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I'm bumping this thread since it hasn't yielded too many responses since I
>>> originally voiced my concerns.
>>> 
>>> To briefly summarize the matter again.
>>> 1) XEP-0313 Section 5.1.2 describes a way for a server to inject the
>>> original / real jid into MUC messages.
>>> 2) This is a very useful addition to the spec in principal, however…
>>> 3) As a client I can't trust this information without a namespace bump.
>>> 
>>> This means I would love to implement this in my client but I can't.
>>> 
>>> So I would strongly suggest to bump the namespace on MAM ASAP. However
>>> bumping namespaces is not something we should do lightly and we should
>>> consider doing other changes as well like the stanza-ids that have been
>>> proposed over a year ago and are generally considered a good idea?
>> 
>> I have a new version of XEP-0313 nearly ready to submit. One of the
>> open questions is whether to bump the namespace or not. I was
>> originally leaning towards not. However, if we do, there are some
>> extra small improvements we can make. I'll review your concerns (which
>> weren't already on my list of issues until now, so thanks for
>> re-raising them), and merge them into the new revision (which I'm
>> expecting to be the last before Draft).
>> 
>> Meanwhile if anyone else has an opinion on this to share, now is the time.
> 
> What are the improvements if we bump?

(*other* improvements)

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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Matthew Wild]

On 12 June 2016 at 12:39, Daniel Gultsch  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm bumping this thread since it hasn't yielded too many responses since I
> originally voiced my concerns.
>
> To briefly summarize the matter again.
> 1) XEP-0313 Section 5.1.2 describes a way for a server to inject the
> original / real jid into MUC messages.
> 2) This is a very useful addition to the spec in principal, however…
> 3) As a client I can't trust this information without a namespace bump.
>
> This means I would love to implement this in my client but I can't.
>
> So I would strongly suggest to bump the namespace on MAM ASAP. However
> bumping namespaces is not something we should do lightly and we should
> consider doing other changes as well like the stanza-ids that have been
> proposed over a year ago and are generally considered a good idea?

I have a new version of XEP-0313 nearly ready to submit. One of the
open questions is whether to bump the namespace or not. I was
originally leaning towards not. However, if we do, there are some
extra small improvements we can make. I'll review your concerns (which
weren't already on my list of issues until now, so thanks for
re-raising them), and merge them into the new revision (which I'm
expecting to be the last before Draft).

Meanwhile if anyone else has an opinion on this to share, now is the time.

Regards,
Matthew
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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Daniel Gultsch]

Hi,

I'm bumping this thread since it hasn't yielded too many responses since I
originally voiced my concerns.

To briefly summarize the matter again.
1) XEP-0313 Section 5.1.2 describes a way for a server to inject the
original / real jid into MUC messages.
2) This is a very useful addition to the spec in principal, however…
3) As a client I can't trust this information without a namespace bump.

This means I would love to implement this in my client but I can't.

So I would strongly suggest to bump the namespace on MAM ASAP. However
bumping namespaces is not something we should do lightly and we should
consider doing other changes as well like the stanza-ids that have been
proposed over a year ago and are generally considered a good idea?

cheers
Daniel



2016-01-20 19:16 GMT+01:00 Daniel Gultsch :

> Hi,
>
> while I see the general need for the added x Element in forwarded muc
> messages. (I think i brought this up myself once in an earlier thread.)
> This is missing a 'Security Consideration' that servers must remove the x
> element if a users sends it. (In case the server is storing the entire
> stanza and not just the Content of the body element.) Otherwise users can
> very easily spoof messages as being from a different sender.
>
> However the main problem is that even if the server removes those elements
> as a client I still can't trust them because I don't know whether the
> server has added the element or a malicious user.
>
> I was always meaning to spark a conversation about server injecting
> elements into stanzas that don't originate from them. (ejabberd for example
> is already injecting the stanza-id (which don't get me wrong is a good
> thing in theory.) The problem is not to sanitize those stanzas on the
> server side the problem is that i don't know as a client.
>
> I don't have a good solution to this yet and this should definitely go
> into a different thread by maybe something about a special attribute for
> example 'by' that indicates who injected that tag and a general rule to
> remove all elements that have the attribute by with my entity - or
> something.
>
> cheers
> Daniel
>
> 2016-01-20 18:27 GMT+01:00 XMPP Extensions Editor :
>
>> Version 0.5 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.
>>
>> Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an
>> archive of messages stored on a server.
>>
>> Changelog: [See revision history] (XEP Editor (mam))
>>
>> Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.4.1/vs/0.5
>>
>> URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html
>>
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>
>
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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Michal Piotrowski]

Great, thanks for the hint!

Best regards
Michal Piotrowski
michal.piotrow...@erlang-solutions.com


On 9 March 2016 at 11:17, Tobias M  wrote:
>
> On 09.03.2016, at 08:33, Michal Piotrowski
>  wrote:
>
> But I don't see any diffs in the examples (only spec version and last
> update date). Or at lest they are not highlighted (for me).
>
>
> Right. That’s a bug in our custom diff tool, needs to be fixed.
>
> The diff at GitHub shows the differences:
> https://github.com/xsf/xeps/commit/6500820120797b2e1b375e59149a0bbb375daeda
>
> Cheers,
> Tobi
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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Tobias M]

> On 09.03.2016, at 08:33, Michal Piotrowski 
>  wrote:
> 
> But I don't see any diffs in the examples (only spec version and last
> update date). Or at lest they are not highlighted (for me).

Right. That’s a bug in our custom diff tool, needs to be fixed.

The diff at GitHub shows the differences: 
https://github.com/xsf/xeps/commit/6500820120797b2e1b375e59149a0bbb375daeda 
 

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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Michal Piotrowski]

Hi,

I'm looking at the changes between 0.5 and 0.5.1. The revision history
section says in this version:
"Bump old namespace version in examples (Kevin Smith)"

But I don't see any diffs in the examples (only spec version and last
update date). Or at lest they are not highlighted (for me).

Best regards
Michal Piotrowski
michal.piotrow...@erlang-solutions.com


On 8 March 2016 at 19:17, XMPP Extensions Editor  wrote:
> Version 0.5.1 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.
>
> Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
> messages stored on a server.
>
> Changelog: [See revision history] (XEP Editor (ssw))
>
> Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.5/vs/0.5.1
>
> URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html
>
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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XMPP Extensions Editor]

Version 0.5.1 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.

Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
messages stored on a server.

Changelog: [See revision history] (XEP Editor (ssw))

Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.5/vs/0.5.1

URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Thijs Alkemade]

> On 20 jan. 2016, at 19:16, Daniel Gultsch  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> while I see the general need for the added x Element in forwarded muc 
> messages. (I think i brought this up myself once in an earlier thread.) This 
> is missing a 'Security Consideration' that servers must remove the x element 
> if a users sends it. (In case the server is storing the entire stanza and not 
> just the Content of the body element.) Otherwise users can very easily spoof 
> messages as being from a different sender.
> 
> However the main problem is that even if the server removes those elements as 
> a client I still can't trust them because I don't know whether the server has 
> added the element or a malicious user.
> 
> I was always meaning to spark a conversation about server injecting elements 
> into stanzas that don't originate from them. (ejabberd for example is already 
> injecting the stanza-id (which don't get me wrong is a good thing in theory.) 
> The problem is not to sanitize those stanzas on the server side the problem 
> is that i don't know as a client.
> 
> I don't have a good solution to this yet and this should definitely go into a 
> different thread by maybe something about a special attribute for example 
> 'by' that indicates who injected that tag and a general rule to remove all 
> elements that have the attribute by with my entity - or something.
> 
> cheers
> Daniel

Hi Daniel,

I sent a proposal for that back in June [1], but that didn't receive a lot of
responses, just Kev noting that namespaced attributes aren't very common in
XMPP [2].

There are alternatives to using a namespaced attribute, but I fear those won't
be backwards compatible. Unless there are implementations out there that have
major problems working with namespaced attributes, I don't think we should
avoid them just for being rare.

Regards,
Thijs


[1] = http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-June/029847.html
[2] = http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-October/030514.html



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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Daniel Gultsch]

Hi,

while I see the general need for the added x Element in forwarded muc
messages. (I think i brought this up myself once in an earlier thread.)
This is missing a 'Security Consideration' that servers must remove the x
element if a users sends it. (In case the server is storing the entire
stanza and not just the Content of the body element.) Otherwise users can
very easily spoof messages as being from a different sender.

However the main problem is that even if the server removes those elements
as a client I still can't trust them because I don't know whether the
server has added the element or a malicious user.

I was always meaning to spark a conversation about server injecting
elements into stanzas that don't originate from them. (ejabberd for example
is already injecting the stanza-id (which don't get me wrong is a good
thing in theory.) The problem is not to sanitize those stanzas on the
server side the problem is that i don't know as a client.

I don't have a good solution to this yet and this should definitely go into
a different thread by maybe something about a special attribute for example
'by' that indicates who injected that tag and a general rule to remove all
elements that have the attribute by with my entity - or something.

cheers
Daniel

2016-01-20 18:27 GMT+01:00 XMPP Extensions Editor :

> Version 0.5 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.
>
> Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive
> of messages stored on a server.
>
> Changelog: [See revision history] (XEP Editor (mam))
>
> Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.4.1/vs/0.5
>
> URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html
>
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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Daniel Gultsch]

Hi Thijs,

2016-01-20 19:36 GMT+01:00 Thijs Alkemade :

> I sent a proposal for that back in June [1], but that didn't receive a lot
> of
> responses, just Kev noting that namespaced attributes aren't very common in
> XMPP [2].
>
> There are alternatives to using a namespaced attribute, but I fear those
> won't
> be backwards compatible. Unless there are implementations out there that
> have
> major problems working with namespaced attributes, I don't think we should
> avoid them just for being rare.
>
> Regards,
> Thijs
>
>
> [1] = http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-June/029847.html
> [2] = http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2015-October/030514.html
>

yeah too bad that this didn't get any attention. I kinda missed that
myself. That's probably not an easy topic to grasp if you never thought
about it before.
Never the less this problem needs a solution and I actually belief it's
careless to just update XEPs like this.

I had a quick off-list discussion about this and for most scenarios  might
have individual solutions available. In this MAM case this could have been
solved by a namespace bump and the requirement for servers to sanitize
those elements.

In case of a server injecting stanza-ids it could probably be solved by
having the server announce the stanza-id namespace in its disco and thus
indicating that it is sanitizing all stanza-ids.

Like you mentioned using an un-namespaced from or by attribute can lead to
some weird consequences.

What ever we agree on we should come up with a solution rather sooner than
later. Because having the server inject information like the original
sender in this case or stanza-ids in another is certainly something
desirable. But without the added security practically worthless.

cheers
Daniel
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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XMPP Extensions Editor]

Version 0.5 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.

Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
messages stored on a server.

Changelog: [See revision history] (XEP Editor (mam))

Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.4.1/vs/0.5

URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

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[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XMPP Extensions Editor]

Version 0.4.1 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.

Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
messages stored on a server.

Changelog: [See revision history] (XEP Editor (mam))

Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.4/vs/0.4.1

URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XMPP Extensions Editor]

Version 0.4 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.

Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
messages stored on a server.

Changelog: [See revision history] (ks/mw)

Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.3/vs/0.4

URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Florian Schmaus]

On 21.09.2015 19:30, Evgeny Khramtsov wrote:
> Mon, 21 Sep 2015 16:06:13 + (UTC)
> XMPP Extensions Editor  wrote:
> 
>> Version 0.4 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been
>> released.
>>
>> Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an
>> archive of messages stored on a server.
>>
>> Changelog: [See revision history] (ks/mw)
>>
>> Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.3/vs/0.4
>>
>> URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html
>>
> 
> There is a typo in Example 9. The closing tag is , but should
> be  I guess.

Good catch. I must have missed that when removing the sentinel.
Addressed with https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/90

- Florian



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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Evgeny Khramtsov]

Mon, 21 Sep 2015 16:06:13 + (UTC)
XMPP Extensions Editor  wrote:

> Version 0.4 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been
> released.
> 
> Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an
> archive of messages stored on a server.
> 
> Changelog: [See revision history] (ks/mw)
> 
> Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.3/vs/0.4
> 
> URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html
> 

There is a typo in Example 9. The closing tag is , but should
be  I guess.

Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Matthew Miller]

> On Sep 21, 2015, at 10:06, XMPP Extensions Editor  wrote:
> 
> Version 0.4 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.
> 
> Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
> messages stored on a server.
> 
> Changelog: [See revision history] (ks/mw)
> 
> Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.3/vs/0.4
> 
> URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html
> 

The Editor Team apologizes for the confusion on this document.  At some point, 
a "0.4" was pushed into the repository before it was ready, and was picked up 
by the various tools.  This version of "0.4" should be correct.  We are working 
on ways to prevent this in the future.

Also, published version 0.3 is available in the attic at < 
http://xmpp.org/extensions/attic/xep-0313-0.3.html >.


--
- m

Matthew A. Miller
< http://goo.gl/LM55L >




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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Kevin Smith]

On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 6:17 AM, Sergey Dobrov bin...@jrudevels.org wrote:
 still have to read the XEP deeper, but would not it be a good idea to
 increment the XMLNS version? there are already a few implementations
 which become incompatible with v0.3 of the XEP.

The namespace has been incremented. 0.2 was using urn:xmpp:mam:tmp.

/K

Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Sergey Dobrov]

still have to read the XEP deeper, but would not it be a good idea to
increment the XMLNS version? there are already a few implementations
which become incompatible with v0.3 of the XEP.

On 08/15/2014 10:08 PM, XMPP Extensions Editor wrote:
 Version 0.3 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.
 
 Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
 messages stored on a server.
 
 Changelog: Fetching current preferences,
   switch to iq-set for searching,
   switch to using a data form,
   describe how to fetch that form, remove the 
 archived element and
   use a sentinel message instead of iq reply. 
 (ka/ks)
 
 Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.2/vs/0.3
 
 URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html
 
 


-- 
With best regards,
Sergey Dobrov,
XMPP Developer and JRuDevels.org founder.

[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XMPP Extensions Editor]

Version 0.3 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.

Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
messages stored on a server.

Changelog: Fetching current preferences,
switch to iq-set for searching,
switch to using a data form,
describe how to fetch that form, remove the 
archived element and
use a sentinel message instead of iq reply. 
(ka/ks)

Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.2/vs/0.3

URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html

Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Kim Alvefur]

On 2013-07-06 14:42, Evgeniy Khramtsov wrote:
 3) Regarding 5.3 JID matching. I think we should allow bare servers
 JIDs in always/never lists and process them as *@server.com (i.e. any
 JID carrying server.com should match). This will allow us to add the
 whole servers to the matching lists.

While this has precendent in other XEPs (eg MUC, privacy lists), it gets
tricky if you'd want to get messages sent eg from a bare host, like
notifications.  It would also need to specify what happens if there's a
conflict, like example.com in always and u...@example.com in never.

My implementation compares with, always and never fields based on bare
JIDs.  Supporting the more complicated privacy lists comparison method
would complicate it without really gaining much for most users, who I
don't think will be using more than a default rule.

--
Kim Zash Alvefur



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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Matthew Wild]

Hi,

Sorry I missed this message the first time around!

On 6 July 2013 13:42, Evgeniy Khramtsov xramt...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 12.06.2013 06:38, XMPP Extensions Editor wrote:

 Version 0.2 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.


 Some feedback if you don't mind.

 1) archived/ tag in the example 1, para 3.1 MUST be within
 'urn:xmpp:mam:tmp' namespace or otherwise it falls under 'jabber:client'
 namespace which is wrong.

Fixed in my working copy, thanks!

 2) same for message/ tag included in forwarded/ tag: it MUST possess
 'jabber:client' namespace. See XEP-0297, 3.2, rule 2 for the explanation.

Also fixed. The embarrassing part is that I wrote that explanation in
XEP-0297... :)

 3) Regarding 5.3 JID matching. I think we should allow bare servers JIDs
 in always/never lists and process them as *@server.com (i.e. any JID
 carrying server.com should match). This will allow us to add the whole
 servers to the matching lists.

I'll give this some thought. As Kim mentions, it's not as
straightforward as it may seem (what is?!).

 4) There is no XML schema.

Yeah, will work on that :)

Regards,
Matthew

[Standards] [UPDATED] XEP-0313: Message Archive Management

[Valérian Saliou]

Hello everyone,


After a chat yesterday with Matthew Wild (MattJ) and Kim Alvefur (Zash) on the 
Prosody chatroom (pros...@conference.prosody.im) about the state of the MAM XEP 
and its Prosody implementation; I decided to update the XEP draft with what 
I/we thought was missing.

I released a local v0.3 of the XEP, featuring:

- Ability to retrieve preferences
- Preferences push to all connected resources when updated by a client (as done 
in XEP-0016: Privacy Lists)
- Ability to purge all or some archived messages (given a filter similar to the 
one used for retrieval)

The updated, browser viewable XEP doc is available there: 
https://demo.frenchtouch.pro/valerian.saliou/xmpp/extensions/xep-0313.html


Before submitting the updated XEP XML doc, I'd like to get some inputs of 
what's the point of view of the community on those updates.

After (and if) these changes go mainstream, we will rework the Prosody's 
mod_mam, and finally implement it in Jappix (after dropping support for the 
old, flawed and too complex XEP-0136: Message Archiving).


Cheers,

-- 

Valérian Saliou

Jappix  FrenchTouch Web Agency founder.
Uno IM product lead.

More about me on my personal page.



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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Yann Leboulanger]

On 06/11/2013 10:38 PM, XMPP Extensions Editor wrote:

Version 0.2 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.

Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
messages stored on a server.

Changelog: Document the ability to page through results by message UIDs, define 
thearchived/  element, and various minor improvements. (mw)

Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.1/vs/0.2

URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html



Some comments:

There sould be a way to retrieve preferences. If I use a new client (on 
another machine for example), or if preferences have chnges since last 
time I set them, I have no way to know that.


As there is currently no way to not store encrypted messages (like E2E), 
I hope the message processing hints [1] will fill the gap.


[1]:http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/message-processing-hints.html

--
Yann

Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Matthew Wild]

On 24 July 2013 17:46, Yann Leboulanger aste...@lagaule.org wrote:
 On 06/11/2013 10:38 PM, XMPP Extensions Editor wrote:

 Version 0.2 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.

 Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive
 of messages stored on a server.

 Changelog: Document the ability to page through results by message UIDs,
 define thearchived/  element, and various minor improvements. (mw)

 Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.1/vs/0.2

 URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html


 Some comments:

 There sould be a way to retrieve preferences. If I use a new client (on
 another machine for example), or if preferences have chnges since last time
 I set them, I have no way to know that.

You're right, that's a simple omission. I'll add some text and
examples about it, thanks.

 As there is currently no way to not store encrypted messages (like E2E), I
 hope the message processing hints [1] will fill the gap.

 [1]:http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/message-processing-hints.html

Me too :)

Regards,
Matthew

Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Kim Alvefur]

On 2013-07-24 19:23, Matthew Wild wrote:
 On 24 July 2013 17:46, Yann Leboulanger aste...@lagaule.org wrote:
 On 06/11/2013 10:38 PM, XMPP Extensions Editor wrote:
 There sould be a way to retrieve preferences. If I use a new client (on
 another machine for example), or if preferences have chnges since last time
 I set them, I have no way to know that.
 
 You're right, that's a simple omission. I'll add some text and
 examples about it, thanks.

Something similar to roster-pushes?

--
Kim Zash Alvefur




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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Matthew Wild]

On 24 July 2013 18:48, Kim Alvefur z...@zash.se wrote:
 On 2013-07-24 19:23, Matthew Wild wrote:
 On 24 July 2013 17:46, Yann Leboulanger aste...@lagaule.org wrote:
 On 06/11/2013 10:38 PM, XMPP Extensions Editor wrote:
 There sould be a way to retrieve preferences. If I use a new client (on
 another machine for example), or if preferences have chnges since last time
 I set them, I have no way to know that.

 You're right, that's a simple omission. I'll add some text and
 examples about it, thanks.

 Something similar to roster-pushes?

Are push notifications for the prefs really necessary?

Regards,
Matthew

Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Kim Alvefur]

On 2013-07-24 19:50, Matthew Wild wrote:
 Are push notifications for the prefs really necessary?

Not sure.  But it would help against race conditions, and save you from
needing to fetch the prefs every time before doing any changes.

I'm not entirely convinced in either direction.  We need more
implementation feedback! :)

--
Kim



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Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Yann Leboulanger]

On 07/24/2013 07:50 PM, Matthew Wild wrote:

On 24 July 2013 18:48, Kim Alvefurz...@zash.se  wrote:

On 2013-07-24 19:23, Matthew Wild wrote:

On 24 July 2013 17:46, Yann Leboulangeraste...@lagaule.org  wrote:

On 06/11/2013 10:38 PM, XMPP Extensions Editor wrote:
There sould be a way to retrieve preferences. If I use a new client (on
another machine for example), or if preferences have chnges since last time
I set them, I have no way to know that.


You're right, that's a simple omission. I'll add some text and
examples about it, thanks.


Something similar to roster-pushes?


Are push notifications for the prefs really necessary?


I'd say no. Clients won't cache this information. That would be usefull 
only if 2 clients acces the data at the same time. But you're not 
supposed to be behind 2 clients at the same time ...


And if it arrives, last pref sent will be the saved one, which sounds 
normal.


--
Yann

Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Matthew Wild]

On 24 July 2013 21:22, Yann Leboulanger aste...@lagaule.org wrote:
 On 07/24/2013 07:50 PM, Matthew Wild wrote:
 On 24 July 2013 18:48, Kim Alvefurz...@zash.se  wrote:
 On 2013-07-24 19:23, Matthew Wild wrote:
 On 24 July 2013 17:46, Yann Leboulangeraste...@lagaule.org  wrote:
 On 06/11/2013 10:38 PM, XMPP Extensions Editor wrote:
 There sould be a way to retrieve preferences. If I use a new client (on
 another machine for example), or if preferences have chnges since last
 time
 I set them, I have no way to know that.

 You're right, that's a simple omission. I'll add some text and
 examples about it, thanks.

 Something similar to roster-pushes?

 Are push notifications for the prefs really necessary?

 I'd say no. Clients won't cache this information. That would be usefull only
 if 2 clients acces the data at the same time. But you're not supposed to be
 behind 2 clients at the same time ...

Agreed, thanks. Simplifies clients, simplifies servers, simplifies spec.

Regards,
Matthew

Re: [Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[Evgeniy Khramtsov]

On 12.06.2013 06:38, XMPP Extensions Editor wrote:

Version 0.2 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.


Some feedback if you don't mind.

1) archived/ tag in the example 1, para 3.1 MUST be within 
'urn:xmpp:mam:tmp' namespace or otherwise it falls under 'jabber:client' 
namespace which is wrong.
2) same for message/ tag included in forwarded/ tag: it MUST possess 
'jabber:client' namespace. See XEP-0297, 3.2, rule 2 for the explanation.
3) Regarding 5.3 JID matching. I think we should allow bare servers 
JIDs in always/never lists and process them as *@server.com (i.e. any 
JID carrying server.com should match). This will allow us to add the 
whole servers to the matching lists.

4) There is no XML schema.

--
Regards,
Evgeniy Khramtsov, ProcessOne.
xmpp:x...@jabber.ru.

[Standards] UPDATED: XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management)

[XMPP Extensions Editor]

Version 0.2 of XEP-0313 (Message Archive Management) has been released.

Abstract: This document defines a protocol to query and control an archive of 
messages stored on a server.

Changelog: Document the ability to page through results by message UIDs, define 
the archived/ element, and various minor improvements. (mw)

Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0313/diff/0.1/vs/0.2

URL: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html