Re: [Standards] Off-by-one error in XEP-372 "References"
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I've made a PR here: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/1018 The proposed change is the have the begin index inclusive and the end index exclusive, similarly to how Converse and Xabber do it currently. This is known as the Dijkstra convention, and I presume it's based on his proposal here: https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EWD831.html This matches how subsequence indexing is done in many programming languages and has the added advantages that 'end' minus 'begin' equals the length of the substring and if two referenced substrings are adjacent, then the 'end' of the first matches the 'begin' of the second. This also appears to be the convention most people in the thread appeared to agree with. - JC On 04.12.20 13:31, JC Brand wrote: Hey folks In XEP-0372 in section 3.1, there is the following text: An end attribute is similarly used for the index of the last character of the reference However, in the example in 3.2, the "end" attribute is set to 78, which is the index of the space after the nickname "Juliet". The example appears to contradict the text. I'd like to fix this, but I'm not sure what the original author's intention was. I'm assuming the text is correct and the example is wrong. AFAIK only Converse.js and maybe Movim support this incomplete XEP. If anyone else is using it, I'd appreciate it if you could let me know which offset you're using. Converse is currently following the example in the XEP, i.e. i+1. Thanks JC ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___ ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Off-by-one error in XEP-372 "References"
Oh yes, of course. I see what you're saying now. —Sam On Sat, Dec 5, 2020, at 01:24, Andrew Nenakhov wrote: > сб, 5 дек. 2020 г. в 05:12, Sam Whited : > > > > > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020, at 23:34, Andrew Nenakhov wrote: > > > 4. Start = first character (inclusive) and length = length of a > > >substring. > > > > This is the same as "1. Start = first character (inclusive), end = > > last character (exclusive);" > > No. > > string: abcdefgh > > 4. start = 3, length = 2. Result: de > > With 1, it would be: > > 1. start = 3, end = 5. Result: de > > > > > -- > Andrew Nenakhov CEO, redsolution, OÜ https://redsolution.com > ___ > Standards mailing list Info: > https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: Standards- > unsubscr...@xmpp.org > ___ > -- Sam Whited ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Off-by-one error in XEP-372 "References"
сб, 5 дек. 2020 г. в 05:12, Sam Whited : > > > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020, at 23:34, Andrew Nenakhov wrote: > > 4. Start = first character (inclusive) and length = length of a > >substring. > > This is the same as "1. Start = first character (inclusive), end = last > character (exclusive);" No. string: abcdefgh 4. start = 3, length = 2. Result: de With 1, it would be: 1. start = 3, end = 5. Result: de -- Andrew Nenakhov CEO, redsolution, OÜ https://redsolution.com ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Off-by-one error in XEP-372 "References"
On Fri, Dec 4, 2020, at 23:34, Andrew Nenakhov wrote: > 4. Start = first character (inclusive) and length = length of a >substring. This is the same as "1. Start = first character (inclusive), end = last character (exclusive);" —Sam ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Off-by-one error in XEP-372 "References"
There is actually a fourth sensible option: 4. Start = first character (inclusive) and length = length of a substring. Just saying. It could be easier to implement for some people. пт, 4 дек. 2020 г. в 19:21, Tedd Sterr : > > "How to specify character ranges" is a problem that keeps appearing - can we > resolve this once and for all, and then ensure we're consistent with that in > all XEPs? > > There are only three sensible options: > > 1. Start = first character (inclusive), end = last character (exclusive); > 2. Start = first character (inclusive), end = last character (inclusive); > 3. Start = Boundary before first character, end = boundary after last > character. > > Option 1 is what I presume most are familiar with as that's how indexing > works in many programming languages, and option 2 makes some sense as you're > pointing to the first and last characters to be included. The problem with > the first two options is that it leads to this inclusive/exclusive confusion > where the text seems to say one thing and the example says another. > > Option 3 sidesteps that issue by indexing the positions between characters, > rather than the characters themselves - so a character is either before or > after a boundary, and is explicitly included or excluded from a range. > Numerically, this is actually equivalent to option 1, but by describing it in > this way, the confusion never arises. > > ___ > Standards mailing list > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org > ___ -- Andrew Nenakhov CEO, redsolution, OÜ https://redsolution.com ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Off-by-one error in XEP-372 "References"
"How to specify character ranges" is a problem that keeps appearing - can we resolve this once and for all, and then ensure we're consistent with that in all XEPs? There are only three sensible options: 1. Start = first character (inclusive), end = last character (exclusive); 2. Start = first character (inclusive), end = last character (inclusive); 3. Start = Boundary before first character, end = boundary after last character. Option 1 is what I presume most are familiar with as that's how indexing works in many programming languages, and option 2 makes some sense as you're pointing to the first and last characters to be included. The problem with the first two options is that it leads to this inclusive/exclusive confusion where the text seems to say one thing and the example says another. Option 3 sidesteps that issue by indexing the positions between characters, rather than the characters themselves - so a character is either before or after a boundary, and is explicitly included or excluded from a range. Numerically, this is actually equivalent to option 1, but by describing it in this way, the confusion never arises. ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Off-by-one error in XEP-372 "References"
On 12/4/20 1:31 PM, JC Brand wrote: Hey folks In XEP-0372 in section 3.1, there is the following text: An end attribute is similarly used for the index of the last character of the reference However, in the example in 3.2, the "end" attribute is set to 78, which is the index of the space after the nickname "Juliet". Yep, that should be 77 and the XEP should explicitly state that the end index is exclusive (while the start index is inclusive). Together with the numbering being zero-indexed, this would be similar to the behavior of APIs like Android's android.text.Spannable. While at it, the textual content of the examples in the XEP should be way shorter. And it should be explicitly explained which part of the text is referenced, e.g.: Text is spantastic! begin=8 end=12 - Florian OpenPGP_signature Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Off-by-one error in XEP-372 "References"
Well most participants of the previous discussion on this list were strongly against i+0 approach which we did at first, so since we didn't really hold any strong position on this, we just switched to i+1. The one advantage of this approach is that you can derive the length of the string directly by subtracting begin value from end value (big help if you have difficulties with +1 operation), and it's somewhat more common with array slicing in various programming languages. But yes, the original point still stands, the text of the XEP clearly contradicts the examples. пт, 4 дек. 2020 г. в 18:24, Severino Ferrer de la Peñita : > > Hi, > > I already discussed this with the author, you can read more about it on the > following logs: > https://logs.xmpp.org/jdev/2020-10-06?p=h#2020-10-06-f8688aaa95f97e76 > > I honestly don't believe `i+1` is correct. > Could you please share some of that feedback, Andrew? > > > Kind regards, > > Seve > https://delape.net > https://github.com/SeveFP > > > > On 04/12/2020 13:40 Andrew Nenakhov wrote: > > > > > > We're currently use it in all our clients, extensively. We finally > > settled on +1 offset because of feedback. That said, we use our own > > namespace because we can and because XSF moves XMPP in the wrong > > direction. :-D > > > > пт, 4 дек. 2020 г. в 17:33, JC Brand : > > > > > > Hey folks > > > > > > In XEP-0372 in section 3.1, there is the following text: > > > > > > > An end attribute is similarly used for the index of the last character > > > > of the reference > > > > > > However, in the example in 3.2, the "end" attribute is set to 78, which > > > is the index of the space after the nickname "Juliet". > > > > > > The example appears to contradict the text. I'd like to fix this, but > > > I'm not sure what the original author's intention was. I'm assuming the > > > text is correct and the example is wrong. > > > > > > AFAIK only Converse.js and maybe Movim support this incomplete XEP. > > > > > > If anyone else is using it, I'd appreciate it if you could let me know > > > which offset you're using. Converse is currently following the example > > > in the XEP, i.e. i+1. > > > > > > Thanks > > > JC > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Standards mailing list > > > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > > > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org > > > ___ > > > > > > > > -- > > Andrew Nenakhov > > CEO, redsolution, OÜ > > https://redsolution.com > > ___ > > Standards mailing list > > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org > > ___ > ___ > Standards mailing list > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org > ___ -- Andrew Nenakhov CEO, redsolution, OÜ https://redsolution.com ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Off-by-one error in XEP-372 "References"
Hi, I already discussed this with the author, you can read more about it on the following logs: https://logs.xmpp.org/jdev/2020-10-06?p=h#2020-10-06-f8688aaa95f97e76 I honestly don't believe `i+1` is correct. Could you please share some of that feedback, Andrew? Kind regards, Seve https://delape.net https://github.com/SeveFP > On 04/12/2020 13:40 Andrew Nenakhov wrote: > > > We're currently use it in all our clients, extensively. We finally > settled on +1 offset because of feedback. That said, we use our own > namespace because we can and because XSF moves XMPP in the wrong > direction. :-D > > пт, 4 дек. 2020 г. в 17:33, JC Brand : > > > > Hey folks > > > > In XEP-0372 in section 3.1, there is the following text: > > > > > An end attribute is similarly used for the index of the last character > > > of the reference > > > > However, in the example in 3.2, the "end" attribute is set to 78, which > > is the index of the space after the nickname "Juliet". > > > > The example appears to contradict the text. I'd like to fix this, but > > I'm not sure what the original author's intention was. I'm assuming the > > text is correct and the example is wrong. > > > > AFAIK only Converse.js and maybe Movim support this incomplete XEP. > > > > If anyone else is using it, I'd appreciate it if you could let me know > > which offset you're using. Converse is currently following the example > > in the XEP, i.e. i+1. > > > > Thanks > > JC > > > > > > ___ > > Standards mailing list > > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org > > ___ > > > > -- > Andrew Nenakhov > CEO, redsolution, OÜ > https://redsolution.com > ___ > Standards mailing list > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org > ___ ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
Re: [Standards] Off-by-one error in XEP-372 "References"
We're currently use it in all our clients, extensively. We finally settled on +1 offset because of feedback. That said, we use our own namespace because we can and because XSF moves XMPP in the wrong direction. :-D пт, 4 дек. 2020 г. в 17:33, JC Brand : > > Hey folks > > In XEP-0372 in section 3.1, there is the following text: > > > An end attribute is similarly used for the index of the last character of > > the reference > > However, in the example in 3.2, the "end" attribute is set to 78, which > is the index of the space after the nickname "Juliet". > > The example appears to contradict the text. I'd like to fix this, but > I'm not sure what the original author's intention was. I'm assuming the > text is correct and the example is wrong. > > AFAIK only Converse.js and maybe Movim support this incomplete XEP. > > If anyone else is using it, I'd appreciate it if you could let me know > which offset you're using. Converse is currently following the example > in the XEP, i.e. i+1. > > Thanks > JC > > > ___ > Standards mailing list > Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards > Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org > ___ -- Andrew Nenakhov CEO, redsolution, OÜ https://redsolution.com ___ Standards mailing list Info: https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/standards Unsubscribe: standards-unsubscr...@xmpp.org ___
