Re: [sugar] 0.84 goals
Hi Marco et al, This is very helpful work on planning the next release. A few high level process-like comments from me for starters. 1 - I think we need more time. I believe that I saw somewhere that we want to finalize the choice of target features by 9/7. I wont have time to devote to 9.1 (that's t he relevant release on XO, right?) for another week or two. I suggest that we give it until end of September at the earliest before we lock down the target features. 2 - Can you integrate this goal/feature set in to the 9.1 page (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/9.1.0)? That page will still be raw for another few weeks but it may be stable enough to tie this work in to it. You can just create a sugar section in the Priorities_from_Engineering or filter these in to the appropriate sections or edit the sections as needed. 3 - Can we pick a trac convention for following this work? Maybe milestone 9.1 and keyword sugar0.84 or whatever works for you so we can easily query this. 4 - Can we pick a target deployment and create use cases? I also need to figure out which specs or requirements definitions to review. Also, I saw one reference to a spec but it looked like a chunk of code when I followed the link. 5 - Can we write up some strategic goals? I like the list but I think it would help to tie it in to a strategy, maybe even an learning strategy. Here is one possibility strategy explanation: - Make Sugar/XO more reliable so that it does what the user expects more often and reduce the number of crashes and hard failures. - Make it easier for kids to share their work with each other. This includes real time sharing and passing of data from XO to XO. Also includes allow more kids to collaborate at the same time. - Make it easier to build activities for the XO Those are the ones that jump out at me from your list. One which I don't see is to improve and extend the sharing paradigm. In that vein I need to respond to an old thread with Eben on the work flow to have may kids go off, write something at home then come together and merge it in to a single shared document. There are also suggestions for having many people collect data (e.g. water temperature) and then integrate that in to a shared data analysis application. I'm sure there are other ideas. Perhaps we should brainstorm and start at the most general and then pick the high level themes. Then we refine them in to more and more specific definitions until we get a set of specific features to implement. Could be that happened already and I missed it. Even in that case we should write up something on strategy so we know where your list fits in the grander scheme of things. 6 - What about the datastore? Is that not your area? What about activities? You may want to make a scrub through the 9.1 page and flag anything which you think is in your space. If you have time wait two weeks before doing that and I will try to improve the 9.1 page soon. Those are my top suggestions at this stage. I appreciate that you are moving the ball forward. I hope to catch up in a few weeks. We only get one or at most two chances a year to build something really new. Hopefully this release will be one of those chances. Let's take a little extra time now and try to make a break through. Thanks, Greg S ** Hello, I started working on the goals for 0.84 in the wiki: http://sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam/Roadmap/0.84#Goals Here is what I have so far. * Next generation journal * File sharing * Collaboration scalability * Responsive UI * Stable activities API * Official Sugar LiveCD * Compatibility with desktop applications * Quality and reliability Each of them points to a separate page in the wiki. I'll be working on several of these pages in the next weeks, writing down requirements, designs and thoughts about resourcing. Help wanted! As you can see the scope is very large. The plan is to narrow down each item to more concrete action items and then probably punt some of the high level goals. But I really want to get a bunch of stuff done this cycle!!! I know it's very vague for now. But if something is obvious missing please let me know or edit directly. Thanks, Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] 0.84 goals
Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: Hello, I started working on the goals for 0.84 in the wiki: http://sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam/Roadmap/0.84#Goals Here is what I have so far. * Next generation journal * File sharing * Collaboration scalability * Responsive UI * Stable activities API * Official Sugar LiveCD * Compatibility with desktop applications * Quality and reliability Each of them points to a separate page in the wiki. I'll be working on several of these pages in the next weeks, writing down requirements, designs and thoughts about resourcing. Help wanted! As you can see the scope is very large. The plan is to narrow down each item to more concrete action items and then probably punt some of the high level goals. But I really want to get a bunch of stuff done this cycle!!! I know it's very vague for now. But if something is obvious missing please let me know or edit directly. Thanks, Marco Some points that came to my mind: - use of gconf for the control panel - what is about performance work - is this covered by 'Quality and reliability' ? - for the 'Next generation journal' I would like to see the possibility to have start-with in the palette of the entry (use-case: to open the source page you created in browse in write you need to use the detail view at the moment #7860). Eben had some ideas on what he want already. Thanks, Simon ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] 0.84 goals
I'm not sure where this one goes, but I'd love to see the home views activity icons and palettes represent the latest N journal entries for said activities. I think this will be a great way to leverage the Journal benefits by reducing new activity cruft, encouraging folks to resume using the home views: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Activity_management-07.jpeg I'm confused about what_which_screen_is_used_for. I had thought: * Home screen - to LAUNCH a new instance of an Activity (verb) without specifying the object that Activity would be accessing. * Journal screen - to RESUME accessing a specific object (noun). To provide the user more information about what it is that is being resumed, the Journal entries allow entering an individual description of that particular entry. And in the new Design an 'Activity view' is to be available in the Journal, which if it had a sort capability would organize the same information as the Image cited above. Plus the Journal marks objects by when they were accessed, and allows optional tagging to further assist remembering. Since the Journal provides all these facilities, I had thought that the __Journal__ would be the ideal screen from which to resume Activities. Is the intent of the Image cited above to provide a short cut for users uncomfortable with the Journal ? I myself would prefer to have the Journal be the place to implement any short cut resuming of what was done before. The Home view already serves for introducing / removing Activities. Accessing of *running* Activities is handled by Frame. Why not let accessing of *deferred* Activities be handled by Journal ? mikus ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] 0.84 goals
Why not let accessing of *deferred* Activities be handled by Journal ? Because it involves an extra step or two that in practice people don't take. Personally, I would even go to the extreme that the Home View should by default open the most recent Journal entry (noun). This is clearly something we should test explicitly in the field. -walter ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] 0.84 goals
Why not let accessing of *deferred* Activities be handled by Journal ? Because it involves an extra step or two that in practice people don't take. Personally, I would even go to the extreme that the Home View should by default open the most recent Journal entry. I'll be the first to admit that the current implementation of Journal is cumbersome. But if it is possible to add palette entries to Activity icons on Home view (for resuming something), it ought to be possible to add similar short cuts on the Journal screen. I can get to the Home view by pressing the 'Home view' key on the keyboard. I can get to Journal by pressing the 'Journal' key on the keyboard. For me, going to the Journal takes no more steps than going to Home View. [And since Home view provides alternate ways of presenting its information, why oughtn't Journal provide alternate ways of presenting *its* information (including a clickable short cut listing of the most recently saved Activities) ?] I was speaking from the point of view of *defining* the purpose of the Home view. If 'resume' is there, should 'erase' be there also -- what if the user mis-positions his click ? I'm a procedure-oriented person, not an object-oriented person. So it has taken me effort to mentally construct a role for the Journal. If short cuts to the most-recent uses of the Activities are provided elsewhere, why bother having a Journal in the first place ? mikus ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] 0.84 goals
If 'resume' is there, should 'erase' be there also -- what if the user mis-positions his click ? I don't think erase should be accessible from the Home View. it has taken me effort to mentally construct a role for the Journal. If short cuts to the most-recent uses of the Activities are provided elsewhere, why bother having a Journal in the first place ? I hope that over time, people spend more time in the Journal, using it as a place for reflection as much as for initiating actions. I think of the Home View as a simplified Journal View; for verbs, as you suggest. -walter ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] 0.84 goals
On Thu, 2008-08-14 at 23:08 +0200, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: Hello, I started working on the goals for 0.84 in the wiki: http://sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam/Roadmap/0.84#Goals Here is what I have so far. * Next generation journal * File sharing * Collaboration scalability * Responsive UI * Stable activities API * Official Sugar LiveCD I think that we can leave this goal to the distributions. They are much better at packaging, rolling, spinning, and distributing cds then we are;) * Compatibility with desktop applications * Quality and reliability Each of them points to a separate page in the wiki. I'll be working on several of these pages in the next weeks, writing down requirements, designs and thoughts about resourcing. Help wanted! Thanks for getting this going. As you can see the scope is very large. The plan is to narrow down each item to more concrete action items and then probably punt some of the high level goals. But I really want to get a bunch of stuff done this cycle!!! The credibility and confidence we can gain from a successfully release will do wonders for our collective moral. thanks dfarning ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] 0.84 goals
On Fri, Aug 15, 2008 at 10:57 AM, Mikus Grinbergs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not let accessing of *deferred* Activities be handled by Journal ? Because it involves an extra step or two that in practice people don't take. Personally, I would even go to the extreme that the Home View should by default open the most recent Journal entry. I think that improvement to the Journal will make it a place people *want* to go to. It should be friendly. It should expose previews up front to make browsing easier. *Everything* should have a preview (right now it's often pretty barren). We need to encourage naming so that meaningful titles can be read and searched. We need to get better collaboration, and for more activities, so that the Journal fill sup with a wide palette of colors. All of these things should make it a place rich in info and pleasurable to peruse. That said, we also do have the design for allowing one to resume the most recent Journal entry for any given favorite activity in Home view, as well. I'll be the first to admit that the current implementation of Journal is cumbersome. But if it is possible to add palette entries You're too late! I was first! :-P to Activity icons on Home view (for resuming something), it ought to be possible to add similar short cuts on the Journal screen. I can get to the Home view by pressing the 'Home view' key on the keyboard. I can get to Journal by pressing the 'Journal' key on the keyboard. For me, going to the Journal takes no more steps than going to Home View. [And since Home view provides alternate ways of presenting its information, why oughtn't Journal provide alternate ways of presenting *its* information (including a clickable short cut listing of the most recently saved Activities) ?] Isn't that what you get by default? The most recent n created/saved entries are at the top, so this is really the whole point. - Eben I was speaking from the point of view of *defining* the purpose of the Home view. If 'resume' is there, should 'erase' be there also -- what if the user mis-positions his click ? I'm a procedure-oriented person, not an object-oriented person. So it has taken me effort to mentally construct a role for the Journal. If short cuts to the most-recent uses of the Activities are provided elsewhere, why bother having a Journal in the first place ? mikus ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
[sugar] 0.84 goals
Hello, I started working on the goals for 0.84 in the wiki: http://sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam/Roadmap/0.84#Goals Here is what I have so far. * Next generation journal * File sharing * Collaboration scalability * Responsive UI * Stable activities API * Official Sugar LiveCD * Compatibility with desktop applications * Quality and reliability Each of them points to a separate page in the wiki. I'll be working on several of these pages in the next weeks, writing down requirements, designs and thoughts about resourcing. Help wanted! As you can see the scope is very large. The plan is to narrow down each item to more concrete action items and then probably punt some of the high level goals. But I really want to get a bunch of stuff done this cycle!!! I know it's very vague for now. But if something is obvious missing please let me know or edit directly. Thanks, Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
Re: [sugar] 0.84 goals
Gary C Martin wrote: I'm not sure where this one goes, but I'd love to see the home views activity icons and palettes represent the latest N journal entries for said activities. I think this will be a great way to leverage the Journal benefits by reducing new activity cruft, encouraging folks to resume using the home views: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:Activity_management-07.jpeg Added here: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/0.84/Next_generation_journal Thanks! Marco ___ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar
