Re: [Sugar-devel] Removing the 'Erase' options from activity righ click menu
I agree with Martin. Having a configurable list of 'core' activities that the UI won't offer 'erase'. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 3:56 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Yeah, we made easy deleting activities, including Browse, because we thought we had made easy enough to update them. Yes. And also, because it's very easy to install new activities. People patching Sugar to remove 'erase' are changing one problem for another. When children discover how to install activities, they'll install *a lot of them* and fill up their storage space (it's happened a lot in Uruguay). The solution is to show them how to delete them, so you don't want to disable it :-) The right solution may be in having a configurable list of 'core' activities that the UI won't offer 'erase' for. Browse.xo belongs there surely. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] wrong Activity versions for 8.2(.1) -- Etoys, Memorize, Terminal, Read, others
BUG: Software update in OLPC release 8.2.1 doesn't attempt to read 8.2.1 versions of files such as http://etoys.laptop.org/xo/8.2.1 because, I think, nobody updated /etc/olpc-release ! /etc/olpc-release contains 8.2, and if you read bitfrost/update/actinfo.py's get_major_version(), that's the wrong content and leads to the wrong behavior: get_os_version() = 802 get_release_version() = 8.2 should be 8.2.1 get_major_version()= None should be 8.2 Bug #8022 was filed about this for Release 8.2.0 but not fixed, I filed a similar bug for 8.2.1, http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9317 Also, the progress output of Software update is *incredibly* misleading, it says Fetching http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1 when in fact it is probably retrieving a different URL with a build or release part tacked on. And then it seems to read variations of update_url from activity.info, and and possibly repeatedly reads http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities , but none of this is its log or debug output. As I remark in bug 9317, I think a workaround would be for the Etoys team to create http://etoys.laptop.org/xo/802 , as 802 is the build number of Release 8.2.1. Software update tries the update URL with /802 on the end before anything else. Bert Fruedenberg wrote Besides, most of its functionality is provided by the etoys glucose module which is not a downloadable activity. Activity version 94 is virtually identical to version 101. So maybe it's not worth bothering to address this just for Etoys. If and when other activities need a special 8.2.1 version, the problem will recur. I wrote I believe Software update on 8.2.x determines the latest versions from http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1/8.2 I added a bunch of debug prints to bitfrost and updater.py and for the G1G1 activity group on 8.2.1 Software update actually tries http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1/802 (no such URL currently) It *should* try http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1/8.2.1 , but doesn't. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1/8.2 (succeeds and it uses this info) http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/G1G1(next it would have tried this) http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_updater is quite vague on what happens when there is more than one set of URLs that might have update info for an installed activity. I *think* an installed activity.info's activity_url (if it has one) wins out, then the G1G1 activity group, and if an activity doesn't have an activity_url and isn't in the activity group, then Software update reads the set of URLs for http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities (and finds only http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities, which mostly transcludes Activities/G1G1/8.2). -- =S Page ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Fwd: journal criticism (was Re: Re: Re: [IAEP] [RELEASE] TurtleArt-51)
[forgot to add IAEP and sugar-devel] -- Forwarded message -- From: Tomeu Vizoso to...@sugarlabs.org Date: Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:11 Subject: journal criticism (was Re: Re: Re: [IAEP] [RELEASE] TurtleArt-51) To: fors...@ozonline.com.au Cc: Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com Hi all, see my replies inline below. To everybody who would like to join this conversation: please change the subject line accordingly or this thread will become hard to follow. On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 04:54, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: Hi Tomeu Walter I am happy to expand this to the list. I have raised the journal once or twice before but mainly kept quiet not wanting to be trollish. http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2008-August/001475.html more but i cant easily find The journal and sharing are probably the two central things that distinguish sugar as as a purpose built learning platform. The team have a huge investment of time and energy and are rightly proud of their achievement. That presents a problem for constructive discussion around the journal, the last thing I want to do is be trollish and destructive. For me, the workings behind the journal are hidden and there is a lack of tools to make it do different things when the default operation is not what you want. Also temporal and tagging is fine as a primary method of storage but hierarchical storage is not offered as an alternate method. in addition to today's filename issue, other problems that I can remember: altering the filenames and extensions of email attachments Could you please expand on this use case? offline web pages do not navigate because the directory structure is lost This is scheduled to be addressed in 0.86 by downloading the page as a zip file and storing that in the journal. can't inspect or alter mime to force something to open This could be fixed in the journal easily, with no need to refactor or throw out anything. We need more people to help us with developing Sugar further. journal spam In 0.84 landed several modifications that should improve this somehow, have you seen if that helped? (I haven't found a way to select a block so every spam item has to be individually deleted Would be awesome to be able to operate on multiple items at once, but unfortunately it hasn't been implemented yet. resume by default will probably cause students to lose work) Versioning in the journal is scheduled for 0.86, which should address this one. accidental overwriting of files through autosave Same as in the previous one, if I understand it correctly. Thanks for the feedback. Adding Tomeu, but we should probably expand the discussion to the list. I cannot argue with you that the fact that the Journal hid information from the user is a problem--really I would characterize it as a bug. But the goal of the Journal wasn't to simplify (and certainly not to hide information from the user) as much as it was to provide a representation of the file system that is first and foremost temporal rather than hierarchical with an emphasis on annotating, tagging, and searching rather than browsing. Secondary goals are automatic recording of actions and objects and the ability to extract from the Journal highlights. These latter goals could as well be accomplished using a hierarchical representation, but still would require a database backend of some sort. -walter On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 7:18 PM, fors...@ozonline.com.au wrote: Thanks, I now have V51 on my XO Short rant follows: This is another example why I do not like the Journal. The Journal does not preserve filenames or directory structures. The download showed in the Journal as File turtle_art-51.xo from http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/downloads/file/26052/turtle_art-51.xo.; As soon as I downloaded to Windows it was obvious that this was not the file that downloaded. I'm failing to understand the problem. Could you please explain further? The Journal hides too much of the workings from the user and so disempowers the user. The user is denied a deep understanding of what they are doing and the opportunity to use the system in ways that were not thought of by the designers. They are Users, not Creators or Authors. The hiding of the file system was well intended, files and directories are probably just a passing phase in computing and they cause some confusion to beginners, but they are the system which underlies the Journal and the way we interface with the www The price for low entry is too high if it disempowers the user, enforces artificial walls and ceiling. I think we have a problem of miscommunication here, in part I guess because our understanding of the problem has changed with time and also because it's hard to keep up with everybody's opinions. How I see this issue is that in the spirit of low floor, no ceiling we should keep moving forward in
[Sugar-devel] Manipulate network connectivity
Greetings all, Here in OLPC Afghanistan we require to impose some restrictions on network detection of XOs: 1. We would like to restrict the XOs to only connect to the school network. Due to the sensitivity of the culture here we don not want to allow kids to connect to open networks/Internet. 2. We would very much like to free up the frequencies used by the mesh when there is a school network. It would be very helpful if we could setup the mesh to disable itself when it sees the school network. We couldn't find a straight forward way to do these. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks Basir ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Manipulate network connectivity
[adding de...@l.l.o to cc] Hi Basir, you are more than welcome to keep posting to sugar-devel when it's related to Sugar or when in doubt, but in this case your question is very specific to the XO hardware so I'm adding de...@lists.laptop.org to cc. In that list is more probable you will find people who are able to help you with this kind of issues. Regards, Tomeu On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:42, nout...@paiwastoon.com.af wrote: Greetings all, Here in OLPC Afghanistan we require to impose some restrictions on network detection of XOs: 1. We would like to restrict the XOs to only connect to the school network. Due to the sensitivity of the culture here we don not want to allow kids to connect to open networks/Internet. 2. We would very much like to free up the frequencies used by the mesh when there is a school network. It would be very helpful if we could setup the mesh to disable itself when it sees the school network. We couldn't find a straight forward way to do these. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks Basir ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Physics activity development
I'm in the same situation (well, I will be when I get my macbook back). I do see a lot of talk towards making Sugar and activities behave more like standard applications. Perhaps Sugar will work on OS X natively some day. 2009/5/27 Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com: Hi Asaf, On 27 May 2009, at 05:00, Asaf Paris Mandoki wrote: Hi, I would like to get started adding the play/pause button and the pin button. Probably the next step is to integrate the activity with the journal. The only problem is that I haven't been able to get my development environment working. It seems there are some open issues with ubuntu. My plan right now is to wait until the Ubuntu issues are fixed. Any suggestions for a better setup? The only thing I have working now is a virtualbox environment where i've been testing the activity and found some bugs. I saw a commit with the joystick feature removed. Is the base code ready to start adding the minor button changes? As for my part I'll hold off making any changes for now. Too many cooks, but a nice situation to be in :-) Other than recommending, A) trying to keep in the habit of working in your own git branch and then merging back to master when stable; or B) use Gitorious to just clone the repository and work there, then make a merge request when your done (this option is more visible as folks can see what you doing as you commit changes and you can also give your branch a nice visible name). Have a chat and co-ordinate with Brian and see what his current plans are; the other usual way to communicate would be to create trac tickets (dev.sugarlabs.org) for the bugs/features you want to work on, assign it to yourself, and cc: the others involved (bjordan and myself at the moment) – unfortunately the Physics component has not yet been added (and there is no temporary 'other') so you'll need to email/chat just for now. Regarding development environments; I have a Mac here, so spend most time in VirtualBox with Fedora 10 and sugar-jhbuild, though I'd have a much simpler Activity development set-up if I could just use a recent Sugar distro in VirtualBox, but the distros are all still a little too 'pre-release' to want to rely on just now – running a Mac, running VirtualBox, running sugar-jhbuild, running Sugar is rather a wasteful and large stack of code I hope to avoid at some point :-) Regards, --Gary Thanks, Asaf On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 2:17 AM, Brian Jordan bcjor...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Brian, On 24 May 2009, at 18:36, Brian Jordan wrote: Hey all, Gary -- when you get a chance, can you add me as a committer on git.sl.o? I'd like to help clean things up! You're added! :-) Can I request we try and make small clean commits and try to let others know what we are doing. If you want to hack, Gitorious supports quite a nice 'Clone repository' and then 'Request merge' process (no commit rights needed for the main project). The alternative, if you know what you are doing, is just make your own local git branch to hack on, so you can take care of any merge/conflict issues yourself when you fold it back into the current master. I'm far from a git expert, but I can recommend some bed time reading at: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~cduan/technical/git/ and/or http://gitready.com/ Thank you, will devote some to that! Need to learn to keep my crazy features in branches. I'd like to get on with Labyrinth work, if you're willing to have an initial clean up of the Physics source in the next few days... so what was 'joysitck' feature all about? ;-) This would probably be best to describe on the wiki page, the idea was to make a UI for assigning keys on the XO-1 to impulses or changes on certain objects, so simple 2 player physics based games could be made from within Physics. Agreed, though, I will rid that from the code so we have a nice base line for crazy-feature branches. Once the dev.sugarlabs.org component is added we should add the features/bugs in there to keep them all together. FWIW, from a UI point of view I had in mind: 1) remove/disable 'joysitick' feature as I have no idea what it was meant to be ;-) 2) build tool buttons correctly using RadioToolButton so they display state correctly 3) use set_accelerator to define visible keyboard shortcuts for the tools Asaf -- do you have a http://git.sugarlabs.org account yet? This is some feedback from Asaf (these could fit as enhancements in http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ ): While playing with the activity I found a pause button to stop time could be very useful. It's complicated to build elaborate contraptions if everything keeps falling. Maybe while everything is paused, positions an velocities of objects could be modified. A minor modification I suggest is to create a separate
Re: [Sugar-devel] Kartik - internship outside GSoC
Hello everyone, Sorry for replying after this long a duration. Exams followed by physical damage to my machine consumed a lot of time. I will like to start my internship under Sugarlabs ASAP. Can any one please provide me a link to all the ideas that were discussed at the recent Sugar meetup (in Paris I guess) and the results of those discussions if possible. I will have a look at those ideas and will like to finalize the one I will be working on as soon as possible (in a day or two maximum). The idea regarding sharing of activities is also in the loop. Thank You On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:20 AM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.orgwrote: Kartik, That all looks pretty straightforward. When you get the project worked out Jameson can sign as training officer. It looks like the third page should be sent by Jameson directly to your school. thanks david On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 11:25 AM, kartik rustagi kashes...@gmail.com wrote: Please find the scanned structure of the documents which are required as a proof of Internship at my school. It will be best if the documents are mailed directly to me since that will be the most reliable. On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 4:50 AM, kartik rustagi kashes...@gmail.com wrote: My own, completely personal opinion on dissimilar activity collaboration is that it is a solution searching for a problem. I understand that there are real use cases, but I haven't seen one that's nearly as compelling as the viral-activity idea (idea 2 of the ones I sent). This is just me commenting, I hope that others with opposing viewpoints will also comment. If that is indeed the case then I will go with viral-activity idea. Any idea who put up the dissimilar activity collaboration idea on the idea list. Maybe he/she might have a different outlook towards it. Suggestions on this are requested :) As to Groupthink, I think that it would be ill-advised to try to force you and Bemasc to work together without a very clear delineation of responsibility which minimizes dependencies. I also think it would be very hard to draw such a line, though you're welcome to prove me wrong on this latter point. I completely agree with you. The reason why I mentioned Groupthink was because I seriously appreciated it and wanted to do something like this for Sugar (according to my capabilities). Few more suggestions on the project idea and then I will start making the proposal. On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Jameson Quinn jameson.qu...@gmail.com wrote: I hope we can do this for you, and would be really happy if it comes through. However, as much as it pains me, I think you will have to go through some of the application process over again. We don't need to interview you again, once is plenty and you did well. But we do need a specific proposal, with clear deliverables - which could easily take a week or more for you to create - and then at least a few days for us to evaluate the merits of such a proposal and our ability to support it. Otherwise, how can we meaningfully evaluate whether you've completed your internship? I suspect that we'd be ready to accommodate whatever reasonable calendar you set up for those steps. Jameson 2009/4/26 kartik rustagi kashes...@gmail.com Hi David, I talked to few of my seniors and the Training and Placement Cell at my school and they told me that the only official letter I will be needing are: 1) 'Joining Letter' which will state the date I will be starting my internship and my supervisor (mentor) at the organization. This letter should preferably on the letter head of the organization or should have some other kind of authentication. 2) And at the end of training I will need a completion certificate. I will scan and mail you the format of these documents, that will be more convenient. The official period of the internship will start from the last week of May after the university exams (going on right now). Delhi College of Engineering : www.dce.ac.in, www.dce.edu Regards Kartik Rustagi On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 8:28 AM, David Farning dfarn...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 4:10 PM, Jameson Quinn jameson.qu...@gmail.com wrote: Kartik, I think we can definitely find a useful way for you to contribute and fulfill your internship requirements. You should write more about what kind of project would interest you; the suggestions below focus more on communications, because that's what I know as your expertise, but if you are interested in UI, security, graphics, or something else, there are probably other ideas for you. I'm not really the person to talk to about communications. I was talking with bemasc (benjamin schwartz, copied on this email) and we had two
[Sugar-devel] Help wanted remixing the Help Activity
Hi, We'd like to update the Help Activity and have the ability to have different versions for OLPC-XOs and Sugar on a Stick, etc. Why is this important? - Shipping SoaS with the Sugar Manual included will help the user experience - Having a ? icon in the ring will help people want help to get oriented - The Help Activity gives us a place to tell Users that Sugar is a Community Project run by volunteers and we welcome them, their questions and their help Is there anyone who will adopt this task? Thanks Caroline -- Caroline Meeks Solution Grove carol...@solutiongrove.com 617-500-3488 - Office 505-213-3268 - Fax ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Physics activity development
On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 4:52 AM, Lucian Branescu lucian.brane...@gmail.com wrote: I'm in the same situation (well, I will be when I get my macbook back). I do see a lot of talk towards making Sugar and activities behave more like standard applications. Perhaps Sugar will work on OS X natively some day. Anybody who would like to port it to BSD and integrate it with the Apple GUI is more than welcome to speak up. Sugar is making its way into all major Linux distributions. BSD has some differences in filesystem layout and libraries that would require some work. I don't know how much. 2009/5/27 Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com: Hi Asaf, On 27 May 2009, at 05:00, Asaf Paris Mandoki wrote: Hi, I would like to get started adding the play/pause button and the pin button. Probably the next step is to integrate the activity with the journal. The only problem is that I haven't been able to get my development environment working. It seems there are some open issues with ubuntu. My plan right now is to wait until the Ubuntu issues are fixed. Any suggestions for a better setup? The only thing I have working now is a virtualbox environment where i've been testing the activity and found some bugs. You are welcome to try any of the VirtualBox setups that I have documented at [[Emulator image files]]. I saw a commit with the joystick feature removed. Is the base code ready to start adding the minor button changes? As for my part I'll hold off making any changes for now. Too many cooks, but a nice situation to be in :-) Other than recommending, A) trying to keep in the habit of working in your own git branch and then merging back to master when stable; or B) use Gitorious to just clone the repository and work there, then make a merge request when your done (this option is more visible as folks can see what you doing as you commit changes and you can also give your branch a nice visible name). Have a chat and co-ordinate with Brian and see what his current plans are; the other usual way to communicate would be to create trac tickets (dev.sugarlabs.org) for the bugs/features you want to work on, assign it to yourself, and cc: the others involved (bjordan and myself at the moment) – unfortunately the Physics component has not yet been added (and there is no temporary 'other') so you'll need to email/chat just for now. Regarding development environments; I have a Mac here, so spend most time in VirtualBox with Fedora 10 and sugar-jhbuild, though I'd have a much simpler Activity development set-up if I could just use a recent Sugar distro in VirtualBox, but the distros are all still a little too 'pre-release' to want to rely on just now – running a Mac, running VirtualBox, running sugar-jhbuild, running Sugar is rather a wasteful and large stack of code I hope to avoid at some point :-) Regards, --Gary Thanks, Asaf On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 2:17 AM, Brian Jordan bcjor...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Brian, On 24 May 2009, at 18:36, Brian Jordan wrote: Hey all, Gary -- when you get a chance, can you add me as a committer on git.sl.o? I'd like to help clean things up! You're added! :-) Can I request we try and make small clean commits and try to let others know what we are doing. If you want to hack, Gitorious supports quite a nice 'Clone repository' and then 'Request merge' process (no commit rights needed for the main project). The alternative, if you know what you are doing, is just make your own local git branch to hack on, so you can take care of any merge/conflict issues yourself when you fold it back into the current master. I'm far from a git expert, but I can recommend some bed time reading at: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~cduan/technical/git/ and/or http://gitready.com/ Thank you, will devote some to that! Need to learn to keep my crazy features in branches. I'd like to get on with Labyrinth work, if you're willing to have an initial clean up of the Physics source in the next few days... so what was 'joysitck' feature all about? ;-) This would probably be best to describe on the wiki page, the idea was to make a UI for assigning keys on the XO-1 to impulses or changes on certain objects, so simple 2 player physics based games could be made from within Physics. Agreed, though, I will rid that from the code so we have a nice base line for crazy-feature branches. Once the dev.sugarlabs.org component is added we should add the features/bugs in there to keep them all together. FWIW, from a UI point of view I had in mind: 1) remove/disable 'joysitick' feature as I have no idea what it was meant to be ;-) 2) build tool buttons correctly using RadioToolButton so they display state correctly 3) use set_accelerator to define visible keyboard shortcuts for the tools Asaf -- do you
[Sugar-devel] Gears in Browse
For both Webified and Karma, Gears support in Browse is necessary (or at least preferred), but AFAIK there is currently no strategy to get it running. Since Browse uses xulrunner, it should be possible to use the Firefox version of Gears, with possible modifications. However, I could not find any documentation about XUL/Firefox extensions running on Browse. On a related note, Sebastian Dzillas has done some work on packaging Gears in a .rpm for Firefox. The work is not complete, as the extension tries to write in places owned by root, instead of the local user profile. My project would probably need to be able to move/edit/delete the Gears profile for Journal integration (search your .mozilla default profile for the folder 'Google Gears for Firefox' after installing Gears in Firefox). ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Gears in Browse
Lucian Branescu wrote: On a related note, Sebastian Dzillas has done some work on packaging Gears in a .rpm for Firefox. Also David van Assche. --Ben signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Gears in Browse
Lucian Branescu wrote: The work is not complete, as the extension tries to write in places owned by root, instead of the local user profile. So then it is not usable on any Linux system, since users do not run with root privileges...? --Ben signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Gears in Browse
Yes. I believe Gears tries to write its profile relative to where it is installed. Since it is usually installed in Firefox's user profile, it works in that case. I tried Sebastian's .rpm with and without root, it only worked with root. However, I view this as a minor problem, with Gears actually running in Browse being much more important. 2009/5/28 Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu: Lucian Branescu wrote: The work is not complete, as the extension tries to write in places owned by root, instead of the local user profile. So then it is not usable on any Linux system, since users do not run with root privileges...? --Ben I had forgotten about him. Sorry David :) 2009/5/28 Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu: Lucian Branescu wrote: On a related note, Sebastian Dzillas has done some work on packaging Gears in a .rpm for Firefox. Also David van Assche. --Ben ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
