Re: [Sugar-devel] [SoaS] image-writer-mac, incompatible with earlier Mac OS X versions
Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 30.12.2009, at 00:57, Bert Freudenberg wrote: On 30.12.2009, at 00:22, James Cameron wrote: On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 12:11:46AM +0100, Bert Freudenberg wrote: The changes look okay, though I'd just remove the read-only check, that should make it work on both Mac OS versions. Also since it appears to be set if an ISO-9660 filesystem is present on the media. ;-) Oh. Good point. No idea where to put it - do you think a new project on git.sl.o is warranted? I've no opinion. I don't know enough about git.sugarlabs.org policy. I made a repo and pushed the fix to http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/image-writer Would be nice if someone could upload the latest version to http://download.sugarlabs.org/soas/releases/ - Bert - Done! Thanks for working on this. :) --Sebastian ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Test protocol for Resume vs. Start new
Hi all: For our meeting at 10:30pm EST today, I put together a draft of a test protocol (in email body below). Please look it over and feel free to edit or add to. Thanks, Christian -- * Sugar Home View Concept Testing* Draft 01/23/10 *Goal*: Evaluate the Home view for Resume activity and Start new activity functionality. *Protocol*: Alternate between two builds, one per student: The current build [Build A], which makes Resume the default action, and a test build [Build B] making Start new the default action. *Duration*: 5 mins per student *Student Profile*: Should be a current user (not a first-time user). Age and grade should be recorded, along with duration of overall Sugar experience. 1. Begin at Home screen after boot up 2. Test cognitive model 1. Describe what you see in this view. 2. What are the symbols in the ring? 3. Describe what each symbol in the ring is. 4. Do you know why the symbols are different colors? 5. What activity did you last work on? 3. Test pathways [Alternate between two pathways, one per student] Pathway 1: 1. Show how you would go back to the activity you last worked on. Describe what you are doing. [Student shows pathway to resume activity.] 2. Now, show what you would do if you wanted to start a new [Write/Draw/Browse, etc.; should be of the same kind] activity. Describe what you are doing. [Student shows pathway to start a new activity of the same kind.] 3. Now, show what you would do if you wanted to start a new [Write/Draw/Browse, etc.; should be a different activity than the current one] activity. [Student shows pathway to start a new activity different from the current activity.] Pathway 2: 1. Show how you would start a new activity. Describe what you are doing. [Student opens a new activity.] 2. Now, show what you would do if you wanted to go back to the activity you last worked on. Describe what you are doing. [Student shows pathway to resume a previous activity.] 3. Now, show what you would do if you wanted to start a new [Write/Draw/Browse, etc.; should be of the same kind] activity. Describe what you are doing.[Student shows pathway to start a new activity of the same kind.] 4. General questions If you could change anything about Sugar, what would make it easier for you to go back to a previous activity? What would make it easier for you to start a new activity? Is there anything else about Sugar that you would change? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Collaboration woes
Last night I attempted to begin the chapter in my book on collaboration in Sugar. Some of my Activities do file transfers so I have had some experience with it before. It seems to me that setting up a test environment for collaboration has always been a source of frustration but I don't remember a time when I had this many things not work at the same time. 1). When I attempt to run multiple copies of sugar-emulator in Fedora 11 using this command line: SUGAR_PROFILE=mark sugar-emulator it creates a directory mark under ~/.sugar and prompts me for name and color selection as it should. If I then do SUGAR_PROFILE=jane sugar-emulator it creates a directory jane and prompts for name and colors. Now if I go back and do SUGAR_PROFILE=mark sugar-emulator again I get Jane's name and colors, or whoever I did the most recently. It looks like you can create new profiles for having multiple sugar-emulators running but you can't RETURN to any profile but the latest one you created. sugar-jhbuild on Fedora 11 is even worse. If I do something like SUGAR_PROFILE=jane ./sugar-jhbuild run it will prompt me to change my colors but NOT my name. It looks to me like there is no way to run two copies of sugar-emulator or sugar-jhbuild on Fedora 11. What am I missing here? The situation on Fedora 10 is better. There I CAN run two copies of sugar-emulator using SUGAR_PROFILE and it seems to work the way it ought to. Now I attempt to go to the Neighborhood pane in both sugar-emulators on F10 to see who's there. The documentation says that if there is no Jabber server configured then Sugar will automatically look for other Sugar users on the same network segment. It would figure that two copies of sugar-emulator running on the same damned box would be able to find each other but no. They are both alone in their neighborhoods. This doesn't bug me all that much because frankly the no Jabber option has NEVER worked for me. Not once. Not on Xubuntu, not on SUSE, not on Fedora 10, not on Fedora 11. So I try various Jabber servers from this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers Of all of them only jabber.laptop.org lets me see other users in the Neighborhood. Not the other copy of sugar-emulator I have running. No, that would be too much to hope for. But in ONE copy of sugar-emulator I see ONE other user. The other copy sees nobody. I've let both copies of sugar-emulator run for awhile and now they can both see the same set of users. Needless to say they still can't see EACH OTHER. I also have sugar-jhbuild running on my F11 box, and it can see the same three users but nobody else. I just wish I knew how to deal with this situation, or that Sugar could do something to at least give me a hint if something is wrong with my setup. If I can't get around it then the Make Your Own Sugar Activities! book will have no chapter on collaboration. Sorry for all the venting. James Simmons ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Collaboration woes
On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Jim Simmons nices...@gmail.com wrote: Last night I attempted to begin the chapter in my book on snip So I try various Jabber servers from this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers Of all of them only jabber.laptop.org lets me see other users in the Neighborhood. Not the other copy of sugar-emulator I have running. No, that would be too much to hope for. But in ONE copy of sugar-emulator I see ONE other user. The other copy sees nobody. jabber.sugarlabs.org should work. I am maintaining that server so if you have a chance to visit #sugar in irc we might be able to troubleshoot this. My nickname is daveb. I've let both copies of sugar-emulator run for awhile and now they can both see the same set of users. Needless to say they still can't see EACH OTHER. I have tested this using virtualbox running two Sugar on a Stick VMs and it has worked previously. I would expect in this case sugar-emulator should work as well as long as it is really using distinct jabber ids. I also have sugar-jhbuild running on my F11 box, and it can see the same three users but nobody else. I just wish I knew how to deal with this situation, or that Sugar could do something to at least give me a hint if something is wrong with my setup. If I can't get around it then the Make Your Own Sugar Activities! book will have no chapter on collaboration. Make sure you have the analyze activity installed. It can provide useful information for troubleshooting collaboration. Dave Sorry for all the venting. James Simmons ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Dave Bauer d...@solutiongrove.com http://www.solutiongrove.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Collaboration woes
On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 17:31, Jim Simmons nices...@gmail.com wrote: Last night I attempted to begin the chapter in my book on collaboration in Sugar. Some of my Activities do file transfers so I have had some experience with it before. It seems to me that setting up a test environment for collaboration has always been a source of frustration but I don't remember a time when I had this many things not work at the same time. 1). When I attempt to run multiple copies of sugar-emulator in Fedora 11 using this command line: SUGAR_PROFILE=mark sugar-emulator it creates a directory mark under ~/.sugar and prompts me for name and color selection as it should. If I then do SUGAR_PROFILE=jane sugar-emulator it creates a directory jane and prompts for name and colors. Now if I go back and do SUGAR_PROFILE=mark sugar-emulator again I get Jane's name and colors, or whoever I did the most recently. It looks like you can create new profiles for having multiple sugar-emulators running but you can't RETURN to any profile but the latest one you created. sugar-jhbuild on Fedora 11 is even worse. If I do something like SUGAR_PROFILE=jane ./sugar-jhbuild run it will prompt me to change my colors but NOT my name. It looks to me like there is no way to run two copies of sugar-emulator or sugar-jhbuild on Fedora 11. What am I missing here? I think the problem is that both Sugar instances are using the same gconf instance that is initiated by GNOME. In the past we have used GConf-dbus so that there's a gconf instance in each Sugar instance and the settings are saved in each ~/.sugar/default/profile, but I do'nt know if this may have gotten broken at some point. Maybe Sascha knows more? The situation on Fedora 10 is better. There I CAN run two copies of sugar-emulator using SUGAR_PROFILE and it seems to work the way it ought to. Now I attempt to go to the Neighborhood pane in both sugar-emulators on F10 to see who's there. The documentation says that if there is no Jabber server configured then Sugar will automatically look for other Sugar users on the same network segment. It would figure that two copies of sugar-emulator running on the same damned box would be able to find each other but no. They are both alone in their neighborhoods. This doesn't bug me all that much because frankly the no Jabber option has NEVER worked for me. Not once. Not on Xubuntu, not on SUSE, not on Fedora 10, not on Fedora 11. Can you check that avahi-daemon is running and that your firewall isn't blocking the ports? Thanks, Tomeu So I try various Jabber servers from this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers Of all of them only jabber.laptop.org lets me see other users in the Neighborhood. Not the other copy of sugar-emulator I have running. No, that would be too much to hope for. But in ONE copy of sugar-emulator I see ONE other user. The other copy sees nobody. I've let both copies of sugar-emulator run for awhile and now they can both see the same set of users. Needless to say they still can't see EACH OTHER. I also have sugar-jhbuild running on my F11 box, and it can see the same three users but nobody else. I just wish I knew how to deal with this situation, or that Sugar could do something to at least give me a hint if something is wrong with my setup. If I can't get around it then the Make Your Own Sugar Activities! book will have no chapter on collaboration. Sorry for all the venting. James Simmons ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David Farning ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Collaboration woes
On 23.01.2010, at 17:31, Jim Simmons wrote: Last night I attempted to begin the chapter in my book on collaboration in Sugar. Some of my Activities do file transfers so I have had some experience with it before. It seems to me that setting up a test environment for collaboration has always been a source of frustration but I don't remember a time when I had this many things not work at the same time. 1). When I attempt to run multiple copies of sugar-emulator in Fedora 11 using this command line: SUGAR_PROFILE=mark sugar-emulator it creates a directory mark under ~/.sugar and prompts me for name and color selection as it should. If I then do SUGAR_PROFILE=jane sugar-emulator it creates a directory jane and prompts for name and colors. Now if I go back and do SUGAR_PROFILE=mark sugar-emulator again I get Jane's name and colors, or whoever I did the most recently. It looks like you can create new profiles for having multiple sugar-emulators running but you can't RETURN to any profile but the latest one you created. sugar-jhbuild on Fedora 11 is even worse. If I do something like SUGAR_PROFILE=jane ./sugar-jhbuild run it will prompt me to change my colors but NOT my name. It looks to me like there is no way to run two copies of sugar-emulator or sugar-jhbuild on Fedora 11. What am I missing here? I guess this got broken with the switch to using gconf in newer Sugar versions. There is only one config per user, instead of separate profiles. The situation on Fedora 10 is better. There I CAN run two copies of sugar-emulator using SUGAR_PROFILE and it seems to work the way it ought to. It uses an older Sugar version. Now I attempt to go to the Neighborhood pane in both sugar-emulators on F10 to see who's there. The documentation says that if there is no Jabber server configured then Sugar will automatically look for other Sugar users on the same network segment. It would figure that two copies of sugar-emulator running on the same damned box would be able to find each other but no. They are both alone in their neighborhoods. This doesn't bug me all that much because frankly the no Jabber option has NEVER worked for me. Not once. Not on Xubuntu, not on SUSE, not on Fedora 10, not on Fedora 11. You have to set a non-existing Jabber server. This used to work. So I try various Jabber servers from this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers Of all of them only jabber.laptop.org lets me see other users in the Neighborhood. Not the other copy of sugar-emulator I have running. No, that would be too much to hope for. But in ONE copy of sugar-emulator I see ONE other user. The other copy sees nobody. I've let both copies of sugar-emulator run for awhile and now they can both see the same set of users. Needless to say they still can't see EACH OTHER. I also have sugar-jhbuild running on my F11 box, and it can see the same three users but nobody else. I just wish I knew how to deal with this situation, or that Sugar could do something to at least give me a hint if something is wrong with my setup. If I can't get around it then the Make Your Own Sugar Activities! book will have no chapter on collaboration. Sorry for all the venting. I think many (if not all) of these issues do also even happen in deployment situations. Collaboration does not work reliably yet. Another item on the way to Sugar 1.0 ... - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Collaboration woes
On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 10:31:14AM -0600, Jim Simmons wrote: It seems to me that setting up a test environment for collaboration has always been a source of frustration but I don't remember a time when I had this many things not work at the same time. Let's take it apart one issue / environment at a time. 1). When I attempt to run multiple copies of sugar-emulator in Fedora 11 using this command line: [...] Given that you talk about sugar-jhbuild later, I guess this is with native Fedora packages? As others have already explained the behaviour you're seeing in this case is probably because the native Fedora Sugar packages are not using GConf-DBus, so you'll need to go to some length to run multiple sessions in parallel (I don't know how to do that, but maybe someone else does). You could also create a new user (Unix account) for each session instead of using the SUGAR_PROFILE feature. Users are isolated from each other, so it should work fine. sugar-jhbuild on Fedora 11 is even worse. If I do something like SUGAR_PROFILE=jane ./sugar-jhbuild run it will prompt me to change my colors but NOT my name. sugar-jhbuild is just a tool to build the packages, i.e. an alternative to install Sugar via native distro packages. sugar-jhbuild run is a shortcut for sugar-jhbuild run sugar-emulator - maybe we should remove that alias to reduce confusion. Do you have native Sugar packages installed on the same machine you're running sugar-jhbuild on? Have you updated sugar-jhbuild recently? Does ./sugar-jhbuild depscheck report any missing dependency? As for not asking you for a name, that's a new feature [1]: It's taking your real name (GECOS field) from /etc/passwd by default. To change that you need to set some GConf setting (others might explain how). You can always change your name in the Control Panel afterwards, though. The documentation says that if there is no Jabber server configured then Sugar will automatically look for other Sugar users on the same network segment. Yes, that's correct and has been tested by me recently, at least on Debian. [On Fedora 10] It would figure that two copies of sugar-emulator running on the same damned box would be able to find each other but no. Since this is Fedora 10, you must be running the native Fedora packages (sugar-jhbuild doesn't support Fedora 10 for quite some time). I'm not sure if those packages depend on avahi-daemon. Is it running? If not, please install it as it's required for link-local collaboration (Salut). Also check that there's no firewall intervening. ISTR something about Fedora installing a fascist firewall by default that blocks Salut traffic. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers I'm not sure about the other servers on that list, but I'm using jabber.sugarlabs.org and it's working fine most of the time. Since it uses Gadget it takes some time to show some buddies, though. Just wait a minute or two. No, that would be too much to hope for. But in ONE copy of sugar-emulator I see ONE other user. The other copy sees nobody. Try running it again. I remember some issue about not seeing buddies that have just been registered (i.e. connected for the first time). Not sure it has been fixed and if so in which version of Sugar. [1] http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1497 CU Sascha -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] [DESIGN] [MINUTES] 0.88 Meeting (2) --- 23. Jan 2010 (15:30 UTC)
Hi, today we had another design meeting for the upcoming 0.88 release. We made progress in the following areas: * Start new vs Resume http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/0.88_Meeting#Resume.2FStart_new_on_the_Home_View Christian has been doing a great job with phrasing out a test case for the 'Start new vs Resume case [1]. There was a long discussion about if we set the goals right and if the test would bring us the data we need. Finally we agreed to do this test with probably adding a third task regarding the Journal. Gerald suggested to do the test with a set of focus groups with, say, 6 students at a time. The facilitator could collect their responses and add some observational data as well. Gerald made the point, that this would mimic how the kids actually use the XOs/Sugar, which is in a social way. Christian, Gerald and Simon will work on facilitating a first round of tests next week. Tests are planned in the Pilot in Berlin and in the Pierre Van Cortlandt Middle School in Croton on Hudson, New York. The development team will work on a build for such a test. [1] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2010-January/022155.html * Font configuration http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/0.88_Meeting#Font_configuration Yevlempy (our new Sugar coding adjutant) attended the meeting to discuss the design for the control panel section from within the learner can modify the Font size. The page will present the user with a slider to adjust the size and a preview of the changes he makes. Eben will do mockups of the proposed design. The possibility to adjust the Font type was discarded. I want to state Daniel words here: If you put an XO in amharic mode, it uses amharic characters even though they dont exist in the systemwide default for for this reason, i discard the argument that font selection is necessary for language reasons. And Daniel clarified further: As for giving the user a choice of font face and displaying the size, i simply think its not necessary and that sugar should focus on simplicity. My feature proposal is based on experience in the field, and i've never seen these things as desirable. * Enhanced Color Selector http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/0.88_Meeting#Enhanced_Color_Selector A new design has been brought on the table. The arrows could be dropped (current design [1]) from the design and only next/previous fill/stroke XOs colors on all 4 sides of the large one could be shown. This would make it possible to adjust the color in four directions. The form can be seen as a plus, not to be confused with a cross. Walter has been proposed to make the code changes needed for this design proposal. [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Enhanced_color_selector#Release_Notes * Tags in Journal and Multiple selections in the Journal http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/0.88_Meeting#Tags_in_Journal Those were basically seen as impossible to happen for 0.88. We hope to see those in the next release. * Dragging Feedback http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/0.88_Meeting#Drag_icon Eben suggested that the designs generally call for the object to be the icon. Which can be seen in [1]. The XO, the activity, the clipping, the device, etcthose should be the icon dragged, as though it were a physical object. When appropriate, the cursor is meant to change to a plus for valid drop targets, and an N/A symbol for invalid ones. he added further. Coding hero Aleksey agreed on this design and will implement it. He hopes to find a review hero for his changes, too. [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Design_Team/Designs/Frame#15 Attendees: http://meeting.olpcorps.net/sugar-meeting/sugar-meeting.minutes.20100123_1036.html Full Logs: http://meeting.olpcorps.net/sugar-meeting/sugar-meeting.log.20100123_1036.html Thanks everyone for a great second meeting, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [support-gang] Collaboration woes
Thanks to everyone who responded. I learned some things about Sugar that don't seem to be written up anywhere, Since I am writing a manual I will write up what I've learned. First, now that I understand that the SUGAR_PROFILE doesn't work after F10 I've started running sugar-emulator under two different user id's on F11, one as myself and one using su to my wife's id. I've changed both to use jabber.sugarlabs.org and they're both seeing lots of neighbors now. Of course they still can't see each other, but I feel that I've made progress in any case. On F10 i've changed the jabber server to jabber.sugarlabs.org and it sees NOBODY in the neighborhood. I've verified that the avahi demon is running and I've disabled the firewall and still nothing. There is no particular need to use F10 for testing. If I can get it working on F11 I should be OK for purposes of finishing the chapter. I've also learned about the Analyze Activity. I might write that up too. The names I'm trying to use for my IDs are James, James Simmons, and Annie. None of these three can see another at the moment. I'd be surprised if anyone else could see them. James Simmons On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 23.01.2010, at 17:31, Jim Simmons wrote: Last night I attempted to begin the chapter in my book on collaboration in Sugar. Some of my Activities do file transfers so I have had some experience with it before. It seems to me that setting up a test environment for collaboration has always been a source of frustration but I don't remember a time when I had this many things not work at the same time. 1). When I attempt to run multiple copies of sugar-emulator in Fedora 11 using this command line: SUGAR_PROFILE=mark sugar-emulator it creates a directory mark under ~/.sugar and prompts me for name and color selection as it should. If I then do SUGAR_PROFILE=jane sugar-emulator it creates a directory jane and prompts for name and colors. Now if I go back and do SUGAR_PROFILE=mark sugar-emulator again I get Jane's name and colors, or whoever I did the most recently. It looks like you can create new profiles for having multiple sugar-emulators running but you can't RETURN to any profile but the latest one you created. sugar-jhbuild on Fedora 11 is even worse. If I do something like SUGAR_PROFILE=jane ./sugar-jhbuild run it will prompt me to change my colors but NOT my name. It looks to me like there is no way to run two copies of sugar-emulator or sugar-jhbuild on Fedora 11. What am I missing here? I guess this got broken with the switch to using gconf in newer Sugar versions. There is only one config per user, instead of separate profiles. The situation on Fedora 10 is better. There I CAN run two copies of sugar-emulator using SUGAR_PROFILE and it seems to work the way it ought to. It uses an older Sugar version. Now I attempt to go to the Neighborhood pane in both sugar-emulators on F10 to see who's there. The documentation says that if there is no Jabber server configured then Sugar will automatically look for other Sugar users on the same network segment. It would figure that two copies of sugar-emulator running on the same damned box would be able to find each other but no. They are both alone in their neighborhoods. This doesn't bug me all that much because frankly the no Jabber option has NEVER worked for me. Not once. Not on Xubuntu, not on SUSE, not on Fedora 10, not on Fedora 11. You have to set a non-existing Jabber server. This used to work. So I try various Jabber servers from this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Community_Jabber_Servers Of all of them only jabber.laptop.org lets me see other users in the Neighborhood. Not the other copy of sugar-emulator I have running. No, that would be too much to hope for. But in ONE copy of sugar-emulator I see ONE other user. The other copy sees nobody. I've let both copies of sugar-emulator run for awhile and now they can both see the same set of users. Needless to say they still can't see EACH OTHER. I also have sugar-jhbuild running on my F11 box, and it can see the same three users but nobody else. I just wish I knew how to deal with this situation, or that Sugar could do something to at least give me a hint if something is wrong with my setup. If I can't get around it then the Make Your Own Sugar Activities! book will have no chapter on collaboration. Sorry for all the venting. I think many (if not all) of these issues do also even happen in deployment situations. Collaboration does not work reliably yet. Another item on the way to Sugar 1.0 ... - Bert - ___ support-gang mailing list support-g...@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/support-gang ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
