Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.

[James Cameron]

On 29/10/2013, at 11:14 AM, David Farning wrote:
> As two Data points:
> In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me
> that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity
> Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard
> to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal
> of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their
> weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread
> the opinion was held.

Interesting.  I don't recall hearing this.  If it was a serious concern backed 
by evidence I would have expected to receive a direction on it.  I conclude it 
was speculation and not a formal direction, or it was not communicated to me as 
a direction.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.

[David Farning]

I would like to thank everyone who has provided valuable feedback by
participating on this thread.

The three things I am going to takeway from the the thread are:
1. Jame's point about my position about not representing the median.
Due to my history and role in the ecosystem, I have upset some
apple-carts :(
2. Martin's point about the right hand not always being aware of what
the left hand is doing. This unfortunately seems to happen too
frequently.
3. Finally, and most importantly, Daniel's point  about getting back
to the business of improving Sugar.

My proposal is that Activity Central make the next step of funding two
developers to work on HTML5 and JS. If we can find a mutually
beneficial relationship around this, we can see how we can expand the
relationship in the future.

Seem reasonable?

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Daniel Narvaez  wrote:
> On 29 October 2013 01:14, David Farning 
> wrote:
>>
>> As two Data points:
>> In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me
>> that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity
>> Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard
>> to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal
>> of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their
>> weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread
>> the opinion was held.
>
>
> The patch queue is currently empty. In the last six months only one patchset
> was rejected. It was by Activity Central and it was rejected by me (not an
> OLPC employee) for purely technical reasons. The proof being that the same
> patchset landed after being cleaned up and resubmitted properly by another
> Activity Central developer.
>
> More in general, no single developer is in charge of patch reviewing, OLPC
> couldn't keep code out of the tree for non-technical reason even if they
> wanted to. More specifically the ability to approve patches was offered to
> one Activity Central developer, which never used it.
>
>> Recently there was a call for help testing HTML5 and JS. Two
>> developers Code and Roger have been writing proof of concept
>> activities. They have been receiving extensive off-list help getting
>> started. But, interestingly, their on-list request for clarification
>> about how to test datastore was met with silence.
>
>
> Mailing list posts going unanswered isn't really uncommon in free software
> projects. But most of the time it just means that no one knows the answer or
> everyone is too busy.
>
> Only me and Manuel are usually answering about HTML5. I have not answered
> because... gmail put those messages in my spam folder, sigh! Most likely the
> same happened to Manuel or he has been busy. (I need to take some sleep now
> but I'll try to answer asap).



-- 
David Farning
Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Problems in building sugar from source

[Rogelio Mita]

2013/10/28 Daniel Narvaez 

> On 28 October 2013 19:03, Rogelio Mita wrote:
>
>> set in prefs.json use_broot to false
>>
>
> Please don't do that unless you know exactly what you are doing. It's
> likely it will work only on Fedora 19.
>

thanks for the clarification


-- 
Roger

Activity Central 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] sugar-web - API for storing data

[Daniel Narvaez]

Hi,

this thread was also marked as spam by gmail :/ I can think of two
alternatives

* sugar-build, which you already tried. I'm pretty confident we can get it
to work on your system but it might require some back and forward.
* F20 Soas. See http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Beta . I've
not tested it personally but it should work. And if it doesn't we really
want to know it.


On 24 October 2013 22:58, Code  wrote:

> Hello, list!
> I'm Ignacio Raguet (aka Code), a developer interested on web activities
> and I would like to help you.
>
> I have been testing the the Sugar HTML5 + JS framework by creating a proof
> of concept activity
> (https://github.com/code-sur/web-activity-POC).
>
> Now I'm heading to implement some activity state persistence in order to
> be able to resume from a journal entry... I will be happy to make some
> testing on it and give some feedback.
>
>
> To reduce confusion, is there an reference image or a set of RPMs on which
> I should base my work?
>
>
> After reading this article: "http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.100/Testing";,
> I'm currently using "a 13.2.0 image and installing rpms" and
> "sugar-build"... I have had better results with the former approach and
> that's why my question.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Code
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>


-- 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Problems in building sugar from source

[Daniel Narvaez]

On 28 October 2013 19:03, Rogelio Mita wrote:

> set in prefs.json use_broot to false
>

Please don't do that unless you know exactly what you are doing. It's
likely it will work only on Fedora 19.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Problems in building sugar from source

[Daniel Narvaez]

Hello,

sorry for the delay, somehow gmail marked the whole thread as spam for me.

I see you tried a lot of things so I'd be grateful if you could start from
a clean clone.

git clone https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-build.git
cd sugar-build
./osbuild pull
./osbuild build
./osbuild run

Stop at the first error you get and send me the output.

Thanks!


On 28 October 2013 09:24, Sai Vineet  wrote:

> I followed the instructions at -
> http://developer.sugarlabs.org/dev-environment.md.html#setup%20a%20development%20environment
> .
>  I cloned(git clone) , pulled(./osbuild pull), and then tried running the
> shell using -
> ./osbuild shell.
>
> Here's the output I get-
> svineet@svineet-desktop:~/code/sugar-build$ ./osbuild shell
>
> $ sudo broot run osbuild shell
> [sudo] password for svineet:
> You must create or download the build root first.
>
> ! Failed to run command shell
> I'm on ubuntu 12.04. What should I do now? I want to build sugar from
> source.
>
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>
>


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.

[Daniel Narvaez]

On 29 October 2013 01:14, David Farning wrote:

> As two Data points:
> In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me
> that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity
> Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard
> to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal
> of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their
> weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread
> the opinion was held.
>

The patch queue is currently empty. In the last six months only one
patchset was rejected. It was by Activity Central and it was rejected by me
(not an OLPC employee) for purely technical reasons. The proof being that
the same patchset landed after being cleaned up and resubmitted properly by
another Activity Central developer.

More in general, no single developer is in charge of patch reviewing, OLPC
couldn't keep code out of the tree for non-technical reason even if they
wanted to. More specifically the ability to approve patches was offered to
one Activity Central developer, which never used it.

Recently there was a call for help testing HTML5 and JS. Two
> developers Code and Roger have been writing proof of concept
> activities. They have been receiving extensive off-list help getting
> started. But, interestingly, their on-list request for clarification
> about how to test datastore was met with silence.
>

Mailing list posts going unanswered isn't really uncommon in free software
projects. But most of the time it just means that no one knows the answer
or everyone is too busy.

Only me and Manuel are usually answering about HTML5. I have not answered
because... gmail put those messages in my spam folder, sigh! Most likely
the same happened to Manuel or he has been busy. (I need to take some sleep
now but I'll try to answer asap).
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.

[Martin Langhoff]

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 8:14 PM, David Farning
 wrote:
> In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me
> that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity
> Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard
> to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal
> of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their
> weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread
> the opinion was held.

I object very strongly to those statements; I hope it was not under my
watch and I goes very much against the grain of everyone involved with
Sugar and OLPC in all the time I was there.

While I didn't always agree or like AC's work or strategies, I have
been, on and off the record, always in favor of having a strong
ecosystem. AC being the main player in that space, this translated in
a strong advocacy for AC.

As a professional in the foss world, this is not something I would
accept in my team, and I don't think anyone in the team had the kind
of personality to play such games.

There were times where it was easy for OLPC to integrate patches,
There were times when it was hard. I tried to signal that in advance
because I have been on both sides of the integration game (and I
continue to be -- now with Moodle) and I profoundly despise games such
as the one being suggested.

with a bad taste in my mouth,



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 -  ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.

[Walter Bender]

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 8:14 PM, David Farning
 wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Walter Bender  
> wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 3:01 PM, David Farning
>>  wrote:
>>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Martin Langhoff
>>>  wrote:
 On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Walter Bender  
 wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Farning
>  wrote:
>> I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical
>
> I don't speak on behalf of the Association, but I think your positions
> are overstated. As far as I know, the Association is still pursing
> sales of XO laptops and is still supporting XO laptops in the field.
> Granted the pace of development is slowed and there is -- to my
> knowledge -- no team in place to develop an follow up to the XO 4.0. I
> don't have a clue as to what you mean by a "technical philanthropy"
> but it remains a non-profit associated dedicated to enhancing learning
> opportunities through one-to-one computing. The fact that the
> Association has private-sector partners is nothing new. It has had
> such partners since its founding in 2006.

 +1 on Walter's words, David's position is overstated. OLPC has shrunk
 its Sugar investment, that is true. But on the other points, nothing
 has changed significantly, OLPC has always had to find sources of
 funding.
>>>
>>> As I stated, I hope to be proven wrong.
>>
>> You also stated:
>>
>>> The degree of openness and transparency is our fundamental
>>> disagreement. Best case is that the status quo works, Sugar Labs
>>> thrives, and I am proven wrong. Worst case is that Sugar adopts to the
>>> changing environment.
>>
>> Several of us have asked for an explanation.
>
> Yes, and sorry about the delay. This is a nuanced discussion which
> requires focusing on goals which can strengthen the project while
> avoiding recriminations about the past mistakes and individual
> weakness.
>
> The general observation is that open source projects are most
> effective when they provide a venue for multiple individuals and
> organizations with overlapping yet non-identical goals to come
> together to collaborate on a common platform which they can use and
> adapt for their own purpose.
>
> The specific observation about Sugar Labs is that an emphasis on
> identical goals tends to limit active participants. Outliers tend to
> be nudged aside. The remaining group of active participants are small
> but loyal. And yes, I see the irony of posting this observation on the
> sugar-devel mailing list. Everyone who is troubled by this observation
> has already left.
>
> As two Data points:
> In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me
> that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity
> Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard
> to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal
> of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their
> weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread
> the opinion was held.

It seems unwise to damn Sugar Labs based on hearsay from OLPCA. Sugar
Labs is *not* OLPCA and we don't traffic in hearsay, regardless.

>
> Recently there was a call for help testing HTML5 and JS. Two
> developers Code and Roger have been writing proof of concept
> activities. They have been receiving extensive off-list help getting
> started. But, interestingly, their on-list request for clarification
> about how to test datastore was met with silence.

Wow. Their email was send 4 days ago, right before the weekend and
*after* your assertion that Sugar Labs is somehow remiss in its
integrity. This too seems a real stretch.

That said, there is clearly something bothering you. It would be good
to clear the air.

thanks.

-walter
>
> I have tried to communicate that there is competition between
> organizations and deployments within the ecosystem... and that is
> good. Competition drives innovation. The challenge, as I see it, is
> for Sugar Labs to become the to common "collaborative" ground around
> which these organizations compete.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
>> regards.
>>
>> -walter
>>
>>>
>> Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts.

 That's more like it ;-)

>> there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial
>> relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments
>> support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial
>> to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on
>> Ubuntu.

 "Seeding and supporting projects" is how it's done.

 cheers,



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  -  ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Farni

Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.

[David Farning]

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 2:51 PM, Walter Bender  wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 3:01 PM, David Farning
>  wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Martin Langhoff
>>  wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Walter Bender  
>>> wrote:
 On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Farning
  wrote:
> I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical

 I don't speak on behalf of the Association, but I think your positions
 are overstated. As far as I know, the Association is still pursing
 sales of XO laptops and is still supporting XO laptops in the field.
 Granted the pace of development is slowed and there is -- to my
 knowledge -- no team in place to develop an follow up to the XO 4.0. I
 don't have a clue as to what you mean by a "technical philanthropy"
 but it remains a non-profit associated dedicated to enhancing learning
 opportunities through one-to-one computing. The fact that the
 Association has private-sector partners is nothing new. It has had
 such partners since its founding in 2006.
>>>
>>> +1 on Walter's words, David's position is overstated. OLPC has shrunk
>>> its Sugar investment, that is true. But on the other points, nothing
>>> has changed significantly, OLPC has always had to find sources of
>>> funding.
>>
>> As I stated, I hope to be proven wrong.
>
> You also stated:
>
>> The degree of openness and transparency is our fundamental
>> disagreement. Best case is that the status quo works, Sugar Labs
>> thrives, and I am proven wrong. Worst case is that Sugar adopts to the
>> changing environment.
>
> Several of us have asked for an explanation.

Yes, and sorry about the delay. This is a nuanced discussion which
requires focusing on goals which can strengthen the project while
avoiding recriminations about the past mistakes and individual
weakness.

The general observation is that open source projects are most
effective when they provide a venue for multiple individuals and
organizations with overlapping yet non-identical goals to come
together to collaborate on a common platform which they can use and
adapt for their own purpose.

The specific observation about Sugar Labs is that an emphasis on
identical goals tends to limit active participants. Outliers tend to
be nudged aside. The remaining group of active participants are small
but loyal. And yes, I see the irony of posting this observation on the
sugar-devel mailing list. Everyone who is troubled by this observation
has already left.

As two Data points:
In a private conversation with an Association employee they told me
that they conciser Activity Central a competitor because Activity
Central increased deployments expectations. Their strategy with regard
to Activity Central was to _not_ accept patches upstream with the goal
of causing Activity Central and Dextrose to collapse under its their
weight. As it was private conversation I am not sure how widely spread
the opinion was held.

Recently there was a call for help testing HTML5 and JS. Two
developers Code and Roger have been writing proof of concept
activities. They have been receiving extensive off-list help getting
started. But, interestingly, their on-list request for clarification
about how to test datastore was met with silence.

I have tried to communicate that there is competition between
organizations and deployments within the ecosystem... and that is
good. Competition drives innovation. The challenge, as I see it, is
for Sugar Labs to become the to common "collaborative" ground around
which these organizations compete.

Hope that helps.

> regards.
>
> -walter
>
>>
> Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts.
>>>
>>> That's more like it ;-)
>>>
> there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial
> relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments
> support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial
> to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on
> Ubuntu.
>>>
>>> "Seeding and supporting projects" is how it's done.
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> m
>>> --
>>>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>>>  -  ask interesting questions
>>>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>>>  ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Farning
>> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org



-- 
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Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.

[James Cameron]

David wrote:
> The degree of openness and transparency is our fundamental
> disagreement. Best case is that the status quo works, Sugar Labs
> thrives, and I am proven wrong. Worst case is that Sugar adopts to
> the changing environment.

I haven't been able to parse this in a way that gives me confidence
that I comprehend it.

Assessing the degree of openness and transparency is very difficult,
because it depends on the monitoring of communication, and there are
communications that are private.

The social network also contains nodes that are hidden.  Some of the
communication links are hidden.  Some links are by broadcast.

I think this will always be so.  It is how humans organise their
networks; ad-hoc and badly.  It is why governance systems are
implemented.

I speculate that the assessments of the "degree of openness and
transparency" occupy a broad band, and that David has an assessment
some distance from the median.

Walter wrote:
> Several of us have asked for an explanation.

I agree.  I'd like to know more about the assessment and the basis for
it.  At the moment I don't perceive any problems with the governance
of Sugar Labs.

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [ASLO] Release FotoToon-17

[Gonzalo Odiard]

Thanks for testing. I need port it to json.

Gonzalo


On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 8:04 PM, Iain Brown Douglas <
i...@browndouglas.plus.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 2013-10-23 at 11:19 -0400, Sugar Labs Activities wrote:
>
> > Sugar Platform:
> > 0.96 - 0.100
> >
> > Download Now:
> > http://activities.sugarlabs.org/downloads/file/28804/fototoon-17.xo
>
> Testing this on sugar-build on Debian 7
>
> FotoToon fails to start with this log:
>
>
> 1382997097.687926 ERROR root: Setting dpi to: 96.00
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/home/broot/sugar-build/build/out/install/bin/sugar-activity",
> line 164, in 
> main()
>   File "/home/broot/sugar-build/build/out/install/bin/sugar-activity",
> line 122, in main
> module = __import__(module_name)
>   File
> "/home/broot/sugar-build/activities/FotoToon.activity/historietaactivity.py",
> line 10, in 
> import persistencia
>   File
> "/home/broot/sugar-build/activities/FotoToon.activity/persistencia.py",
> line 2, in 
> import simplejson
> ImportError: No module named simplejson
> Exited with status 1, pid 3218 data (None, ', mode
> 'w' at 0x38a39c0>, '922ebb18c82a00158252b3698f3dea0e6eda005b')
>
> Iain
>
> > Sugar Labs Activities
> > http://activities.sugarlabs.org
> >
> > ___
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> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
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>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] [ASLO] Release FotoToon-17

[Iain Brown Douglas]

On Wed, 2013-10-23 at 11:19 -0400, Sugar Labs Activities wrote:

> Sugar Platform:
> 0.96 - 0.100
> 
> Download Now:
> http://activities.sugarlabs.org/downloads/file/28804/fototoon-17.xo

Testing this on sugar-build on Debian 7

FotoToon fails to start with this log:


1382997097.687926 ERROR root: Setting dpi to: 96.00
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/broot/sugar-build/build/out/install/bin/sugar-activity",
line 164, in 
main()
  File "/home/broot/sugar-build/build/out/install/bin/sugar-activity",
line 122, in main
module = __import__(module_name)
  File
"/home/broot/sugar-build/activities/FotoToon.activity/historietaactivity.py", 
line 10, in 
import persistencia
  File
"/home/broot/sugar-build/activities/FotoToon.activity/persistencia.py",
line 2, in 
import simplejson
ImportError: No module named simplejson
Exited with status 1, pid 3218 data (None, ', mode
'w' at 0x38a39c0>, '922ebb18c82a00158252b3698f3dea0e6eda005b')

Iain

> Sugar Labs Activities
> http://activities.sugarlabs.org
> 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.

[Walter Bender]

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 3:01 PM, David Farning
 wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Martin Langhoff
>  wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Walter Bender  
>> wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Farning
>>>  wrote:
 I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical
>>>
>>> I don't speak on behalf of the Association, but I think your positions
>>> are overstated. As far as I know, the Association is still pursing
>>> sales of XO laptops and is still supporting XO laptops in the field.
>>> Granted the pace of development is slowed and there is -- to my
>>> knowledge -- no team in place to develop an follow up to the XO 4.0. I
>>> don't have a clue as to what you mean by a "technical philanthropy"
>>> but it remains a non-profit associated dedicated to enhancing learning
>>> opportunities through one-to-one computing. The fact that the
>>> Association has private-sector partners is nothing new. It has had
>>> such partners since its founding in 2006.
>>
>> +1 on Walter's words, David's position is overstated. OLPC has shrunk
>> its Sugar investment, that is true. But on the other points, nothing
>> has changed significantly, OLPC has always had to find sources of
>> funding.
>
> As I stated, I hope to be proven wrong.

You also stated:

> The degree of openness and transparency is our fundamental
> disagreement. Best case is that the status quo works, Sugar Labs
> thrives, and I am proven wrong. Worst case is that Sugar adopts to the
> changing environment.

Several of us have asked for an explanation.

regards.

-walter

>
 Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts.
>>
>> That's more like it ;-)
>>
 there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial
 relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments
 support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial
 to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on
 Ubuntu.
>>
>> "Seeding and supporting projects" is how it's done.
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> m
>> --
>>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>>  -  ask interesting questions
>>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>>  ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff
>
>
>
> --
> David Farning
> Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com



-- 
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Sugar Labs
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Re: [Sugar-devel] XO-system 1a builds

[Sebastian Silva]

El 28/10/13 04:12, James Cameron escribió:

zdextract in the bios-crypto package will unpack it, giving you a disk
image, which you can then loopback mount as a filesystem and compare
with another filesystem.

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Quozl/Remastering  is an example use of
zdextract for adding files to a build without having to re-run the
builder.  hasn't been tested since 2012, but it should help you
understand zdextract.

Thanks, by chance, that was quite helpful, and just in time. :-)
Regards,

Sebastian
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.

[David Farning]

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Martin Langhoff
 wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Walter Bender  
> wrote:
>> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Farning
>>  wrote:
>>> I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical
>>
>> I don't speak on behalf of the Association, but I think your positions
>> are overstated. As far as I know, the Association is still pursing
>> sales of XO laptops and is still supporting XO laptops in the field.
>> Granted the pace of development is slowed and there is -- to my
>> knowledge -- no team in place to develop an follow up to the XO 4.0. I
>> don't have a clue as to what you mean by a "technical philanthropy"
>> but it remains a non-profit associated dedicated to enhancing learning
>> opportunities through one-to-one computing. The fact that the
>> Association has private-sector partners is nothing new. It has had
>> such partners since its founding in 2006.
>
> +1 on Walter's words, David's position is overstated. OLPC has shrunk
> its Sugar investment, that is true. But on the other points, nothing
> has changed significantly, OLPC has always had to find sources of
> funding.

As I stated, I hope to be proven wrong.

>>> Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts.
>
> That's more like it ;-)
>
>>> there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial
>>> relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments
>>> support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial
>>> to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on
>>> Ubuntu.
>
> "Seeding and supporting projects" is how it's done.
>
> cheers,
>
>
>
> m
> --
>  martin.langh...@gmail.com
>  -  ask interesting questions
>  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
>  ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff



-- 
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Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Problems in building sugar from source

[Rogelio Mita]

You say you did set use_broot to false and then build, but nothing happen?,
You tried to clean and then build?
I don't know what is happening, I send this information to the list to see
if anyone else can help you, in any way you can try:

set in prefs.json use_broot to false
./osbuild clean
./osbuild build


2013/10/28 Sai Vineet 

> Tried it. Still not working. Here's the output it gave me -
> svineet@svineet-desktop:~/code/sugar-build$ ./osbuild build
>
> $ sudo broot run osbuild build
> [sudo] password for svineet:
> You must create or download the build root first.
>
> ! Failed to run command build
> I have tried many alternatives -
> ./osbuild broot create -
> svineet@svineet-desktop:~/code/sugar-build$ ./osbuild broot create
>
> $ sudo broot create
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File
> "/home/svineet/code/sugar-build/build/out/sandbox-host/install/bin/broot",
> line 5, in 
> main.main()
>   File
> "/home/svineet/code/sugar-build/build/out/sandbox-host/install/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/broot/main.py",
> line 49, in main
> result = root.create(options.arch, options.mirror)
>   File
> "/home/svineet/code/sugar-build/build/out/sandbox-host/install/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/broot/root.py",
> line 200, in create
> self._builder.create(arch, mirror)
>   File
> "/home/svineet/code/sugar-build/build/out/sandbox-host/install/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/broot/builder.py",
> line 85, in create
> check_call(["rpm", "--root", root_path, "--initdb"])
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 506, in check_call
> retcode = call(*popenargs, **kwargs)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 493, in call
> return Popen(*popenargs, **kwargs).wait()
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 679, in __init__
> errread, errwrite)
>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/subprocess.py", line 1249, in _execute_child
> raise child_exception
> OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory
>
> ! Failed to run command broot
> I also tried ./osbuild broot setup. It downloaded for a while. Then it
> printed a lot of text and then it told me thrice - You must create or
> download the build root first.
> What should I do? I repeat, the ./osbuild pull completed. I have done
> everything else required. I also tried setting prefs.json "use_broot" to
> false. I have removed all files and tried again, but in vain.
> I have been stuck here for 3 days. Please help
> Thank you
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:04 PM, Rogelio Mita <
> rogeliom...@activitycentral.com> wrote:
>
>> Try with "./osbuild build" command before run shell.
>>
>>
>> 2013/10/28 Sai Vineet 
>>
>>> I followed the instructions at -
>>> http://developer.sugarlabs.org/dev-environment.md.html#setup%20a%20development%20environment
>>> .
>>>  I cloned(git clone) , pulled(./osbuild pull), and then tried running
>>> the shell using -
>>> ./osbuild shell.
>>>
>>> Here's the output I get-
>>> svineet@svineet-desktop:~/code/sugar-build$ ./osbuild shell
>>>
>>> $ sudo broot run osbuild shell
>>> [sudo] password for svineet:
>>> You must create or download the build root first.
>>>
>>> ! Failed to run command shell
>>> I'm on ubuntu 12.04. What should I do now? I want to build sugar from
>>> source.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Roger
>>
>> Activity Central 
>>
>
>


-- 
Roger

Activity Central 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Problems in building sugar from source

[Rogelio Mita]

Try with "./osbuild build" command before run shell.


2013/10/28 Sai Vineet 

> I followed the instructions at -
> http://developer.sugarlabs.org/dev-environment.md.html#setup%20a%20development%20environment
> .
>  I cloned(git clone) , pulled(./osbuild pull), and then tried running the
> shell using -
> ./osbuild shell.
>
> Here's the output I get-
> svineet@svineet-desktop:~/code/sugar-build$ ./osbuild shell
>
> $ sudo broot run osbuild shell
> [sudo] password for svineet:
> You must create or download the build root first.
>
> ! Failed to run command shell
> I'm on ubuntu 12.04. What should I do now? I want to build sugar from
> source.
>
> ___
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>


-- 
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Activity Central 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.

[Martin Langhoff]

On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:26 PM, Walter Bender  wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 12:04 PM, David Farning
>  wrote:
>> I just wanted to bump this line of questions as, it is the critical
>
> I don't speak on behalf of the Association, but I think your positions
> are overstated. As far as I know, the Association is still pursing
> sales of XO laptops and is still supporting XO laptops in the field.
> Granted the pace of development is slowed and there is -- to my
> knowledge -- no team in place to develop an follow up to the XO 4.0. I
> don't have a clue as to what you mean by a "technical philanthropy"
> but it remains a non-profit associated dedicated to enhancing learning
> opportunities through one-to-one computing. The fact that the
> Association has private-sector partners is nothing new. It has had
> such partners since its founding in 2006.

+1 on Walter's words, David's position is overstated. OLPC has shrunk
its Sugar investment, that is true. But on the other points, nothing
has changed significantly, OLPC has always had to find sources of
funding.

>> Given financial constraints, these are reasonable shifts.

That's more like it ;-)

>> there are ways to establish publicly disclosed and mutually beneficial
>> relationships. In the meantime we are happy to provide deployments
>> support while seeding and supporting projects we feel are beneficial
>> to deployments such as School Server Community Edition and Sugar on
>> Ubuntu.

"Seeding and supporting projects" is how it's done.

cheers,



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 -  ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 ~ http://docs.moodle.org/en/User:Martin_Langhoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Private vs Public conversations.

[Daniel Narvaez]

On 23 October 2013 19:51, Walter Bender  wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 1:48 PM, David Farning
>  wrote:
> > On Wed, Oct 23, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Walter Bender 
> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >> I don't understand what you are asking. Sugar Labs has always had a
> >> policy of working in the open.
> >
> > The degree of openness and transparency is our fundamental
> > disagreement. Best case is that the status quo works, Sugar Labs
> > thrives, and I am proven wrong. Worst case is that Sugar adopts to the
> > changing environment.
> >
>
> Not a clue as to what you are talking about. How about some
> transparency as to what our disagreement is?
>
> [snip]
>

Yes, please. I don't really understand where you are seeing lack of
openness and transparency.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sharing activities on multiple instances of sugar-build

[Daniel Narvaez]

Last time I tried I couldn't even get the activity icon to display on the
sharing instance.


On 28 October 2013 14:47, Suraj K S  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Has someone tried to run multiple instances of the latest sugar-build and
> share some activity with the other instance?
>
> I tried to experiment with the same, but I'm not able to detect the
> presence of the instance from the other side.
>
> Also, I'm facing problems while creating a clone of turtle-art:
>
> Cloning into 'turtleart'...
> remote: Counting objects: 21469, done.
> remote: Compressing objects: 100% (5721/5721), done.
> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly67 MiB | 15 KiB/s
> fatal: early EOF
> fatal: recursion detected in die handler
>
> This happened several times.
>
> Regards,
> Suraj
>
>
>
> ___
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sharing activities on multiple instances of sugar-build

[Suraj K S]

Maybe my network, I'll try once again.


On 28 October 2013 19:19, Walter Bender  wrote:

> Just did a git clone
> gitori...@git.sugarlabs.org:turtleart/mainline.git and had no
> problems.
>
> -walter
>
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Suraj K S 
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Has someone tried to run multiple instances of the latest sugar-build and
> > share some activity with the other instance?
> >
> > I tried to experiment with the same, but I'm not able to detect the
> presence
> > of the instance from the other side.
> >
> > Also, I'm facing problems while creating a clone of turtle-art:
> >
> > Cloning into 'turtleart'...
> > remote: Counting objects: 21469, done.
> > remote: Compressing objects: 100% (5721/5721), done.
> > fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly67 MiB | 15 KiB/s
> > fatal: early EOF
> > fatal: recursion detected in die handler
> >
> > This happened several times.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Suraj
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Walter Bender
> Sugar Labs
> http://www.sugarlabs.org
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sharing activities on multiple instances of sugar-build

[Walter Bender]

Just did a git clone
gitori...@git.sugarlabs.org:turtleart/mainline.git and had no
problems.

-walter

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Suraj K S  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Has someone tried to run multiple instances of the latest sugar-build and
> share some activity with the other instance?
>
> I tried to experiment with the same, but I'm not able to detect the presence
> of the instance from the other side.
>
> Also, I'm facing problems while creating a clone of turtle-art:
>
> Cloning into 'turtleart'...
> remote: Counting objects: 21469, done.
> remote: Compressing objects: 100% (5721/5721), done.
> fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly67 MiB | 15 KiB/s
> fatal: early EOF
> fatal: recursion detected in die handler
>
> This happened several times.
>
> Regards,
> Suraj
>
>
>
> ___
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> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>



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[Sugar-devel] Sharing activities on multiple instances of sugar-build

[Suraj K S]

Hi,

Has someone tried to run multiple instances of the latest sugar-build and
share some activity with the other instance?

I tried to experiment with the same, but I'm not able to detect the
presence of the instance from the other side.

Also, I'm facing problems while creating a clone of turtle-art:

Cloning into 'turtleart'...
remote: Counting objects: 21469, done.
remote: Compressing objects: 100% (5721/5721), done.
fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly67 MiB | 15 KiB/s
fatal: early EOF
fatal: recursion detected in die handler

This happened several times.

Regards,
Suraj
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Re: [Sugar-devel] XO-system 1a builds

[James Cameron]

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 09:01:02PM +1300, Tom Parker wrote:
> On 28/10/13 12:50, Walter Bender wrote:
> >I'll look around in OZ
> 
> I'm mostly interested in the changelog -- I have a copy of the .zd
> file and fs.zip so don't spend time looking for those.
> 
> If the changelog isn't available, is there a way to unpack a .zd
> file and then compare it with the .lzma file from a subsequent
> build? It appears to be in zhashfs format but this doesn't seem to
> have many tools?

zdextract in the bios-crypto package will unpack it, giving you a disk
image, which you can then loopback mount as a filesystem and compare
with another filesystem.

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Quozl/Remastering is an example use of
zdextract for adding files to a build without having to re-run the
builder.  hasn't been tested since 2012, but it should help you
understand zdextract.

which changelog are you after?  there isn't one in the release file
set.  for example;

http://download.laptop.org/xo-4/os/official/latest/

you can build packages.txt from a filesystem using "rpm -qa | sort",
and activities.txt can also be built; there's code in olpc-os-builder
to do these things, see modules/base/postimage.50.core.sh.  (i used to
maintain tools to do this in a separate tree, but they were merged
with olpc-os-builder in 2010-01).

http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/base/postimage.50.core.sh

> I guess the obvious thing to do is to flash an XO and then tar up
> the result for comparison on another computer. Is that likely to
> work?

perhaps.  but zdextract is easier.

the /versions tree becomes interesting.  and the kernel version in the
modules path too.  before comparing, normalise the tree.  the attached
script is truly ancient, not peer reviewed, dating back to 2010, but
it has some ideas for automated comparison that you might find useful.

but modules/base/postimage.50.core.sh is probably simpler to use; it
was peer reviewed.

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
#!/bin/bash
set -e

ORIGIN_DEFAULT=/var/www/build/10.2.0
ORIGIN_DEFAULT=/var/www/build/10.1.2/xo-1.5

A=$1
shift

B=$1
shift

ORIGIN_A=${A}
ORIGIN_B=${B}

BUILD_A=$(basename ${A})
BUILD_B=$(basename ${B})

if [ "${ORIGIN_A}" = "${BUILD_A}" ]; then
ORIGIN_A=${ORIGIN_DEFAULT}
else
ORIGIN_A=$(dirname ${ORIGIN_A})
fi

if [ "${ORIGIN_B}" = "${BUILD_B}" ]; then
ORIGIN_B=${ORIGIN_DEFAULT}
else
ORIGIN_B=$(dirname ${ORIGIN_B})
fi

echo ${ORIGIN_A}
echo ${BUILD_A}
echo ${ORIGIN_B}
echo ${BUILD_B}

if [ ! -d ${ORIGIN_A} ]; then
echo 'no origin directory $ORIGIN_A found'
exit 1
fi

if [ ! -d ${ORIGIN_B} ]; then
echo 'no origin directory $ORIGIN_B found'
exit 1
fi

if [ ! -d ${ORIGIN_A}/${BUILD_A} ]; then
echo "no build directory for $BUILD_A found"
exit 1
fi

if [ ! -d ${ORIGIN_B}/${BUILD_B} ]; then
echo "no build directory for $BUILD_B found"
exit 1
fi

NUMBER_A=$(echo ${BUILD_A} | sed 's/os//')
NUMBER_B=$(echo ${BUILD_B} | sed 's/os//')

function get_kernel_release {
echo $(egrep '^kernel-firmware-' ${1}/${2}/${2}.packages.txt | sed -e 
's/^kernel-firmware-//g' -e 's/.i586//g' )
}

function get_firmware_release {
echo $(egrep '^bootfw-' ${1}/${2}/${2}.packages.txt | sed -e 
's/^bootfw-//g' | cut -f1 -d'-' )
}

KERNEL_A=$(get_kernel_release ${ORIGIN_A} ${BUILD_A})
KERNEL_B=$(get_kernel_release ${ORIGIN_B} ${BUILD_B})

function generate_list_old {
FILE=${1}/${2}/${2}.tree.tar.lzma

if [ ! -r ${FILE} ]; then
echo "no readable build file for ${2} found";
exit 1
fi

echo 'generate list for' ${2} 'from tar.lzma'
lzma --decompress --stdout < ${FILE} | \
tar --list --file - | \
sed -e "s/pristine\/${3}/pristine\/xx/g" \
-e "s/run\/${3}/run\/xx/g" \
-e "s%/${4}%/\${KERNEL}%g" | \
grep -v "/var/lib/yum/yumdb" | \
sort >> ${2}.list
}

function generate_list {
echo > ${2}.list
echo 'firmware' $(get_firmware_release ${1} ${2}) >> ${2}.list
echo 'kernel' ${4} >> ${2}.list
sed -e 's/^/activity /g' ${1}/${2}/${2}.activities.txt >> ${2}.list
sed -e 's/^/library /g' ${1}/${2}/${2}.libraries.txt >> ${2}.list
sed -e 's/^/package /g' ${1}/${2}/${2}.packages.txt >> ${2}.list
FILES=${1}/${2}/${2}.files.txt.gz
if [ ! -r ${FILES} ]; then
generate_list_old "$1" "$2" "$3" "$4"
return
fi
echo 'generate list for' ${2} 'from files.txt.gz'
zcat ${FILES} | \
sed -e 's%^/%./%g' \
-e "s/pristine\/${3}/pristine\/xx/g" \
-e "s/run\/${3}/run\/xx/g" \
-e "s%/${4}%/\${KERNEL}%g" \
-e 's/^/file /g' | \
grep -v "/var/lib/yum/yumdb" | \
sort >> ${2}.list
touch --reference ${1}/${2}/${2}.zd ${2}.list || touch --reference 
${1}/${2}/${2}.img ${2}.list
}

generate_list ${ORIGIN_A} ${BUILD_A} ${NUMBER_A} ${KERNEL_A}
generate_list ${ORIGIN_B} ${BUILD_B} ${NUMBER_B} ${KERNEL_B}

O=${BUILD_A}-${BUILD_B}.diff
echo

[Sugar-devel] Problems in building sugar from source

[Sai Vineet]

I followed the instructions at -
http://developer.sugarlabs.org/dev-environment.md.html#setup%20a%20development%20environment
.
 I cloned(git clone) , pulled(./osbuild pull), and then tried running the
shell using -
./osbuild shell.

Here's the output I get-
svineet@svineet-desktop:~/code/sugar-build$ ./osbuild shell

$ sudo broot run osbuild shell
[sudo] password for svineet:
You must create or download the build root first.

! Failed to run command shell
I'm on ubuntu 12.04. What should I do now? I want to build sugar from
source.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] XO-system 1a builds

[Tom Parker]

On 28/10/13 12:50, Walter Bender wrote:

I'll look around in OZ


I'm mostly interested in the changelog -- I have a copy of the .zd file 
and fs.zip so don't spend time looking for those.


If the changelog isn't available, is there a way to unpack a .zd file 
and then compare it with the .lzma file from a subsequent build? It 
appears to be in zhashfs format but this doesn't seem to have many tools?


I guess the obvious thing to do is to flash an XO and then tar up the 
result for comparison on another computer. Is that likely to work?

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