Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 79, Issue 61

2015-05-23 Thread Tony Anderson 
Somewhere I got lost. I had originally understood docker as a mechanism 
to run Sugar on platforms other than an XO.


In learning to program in Python, I lean to the idea that it should be 
done with the Terminal Activity (command line, nano text editor). The 
use of an integrated
development environment (Pippy, IDLE, IPython, Eclipse) can be 
introduced as an advanced topic - incidentally IPython runs quite nicely 
on an XO).


I can't image a professional building a web application using Pippy. I 
think students should learn to build web applications using standard 
methods: HTML, CSS, and Javascript. Again, using the command line and 
nano. The GSOC project to build an interactive javascript shell reflects 
the fact that Python has an inherently better development environment 
and that Javascript really needs an interactive display of the web page 
(and debugging via the console.log mechanism).


Although Sugar is becoming more dependent on internet access, that is 
not an option for many deployments. Flask or Django could be introduced 
as an advanced topic with the framework hosted on the school server. 
This will require some careful planning so that student interaction does 
not introduce instability since there is normally no qualified system 
administrator available to deal with server problems.


Tony

On 05/23/2015 06:00 PM, sugar-devel-requ...@lists.sugarlabs.org wrote:
Message: 6 Date: Sat, 23 May 2015 08:11:54 + From: 
tkk...@nurturingasia.com To: "Sebastian Silva" 
, tkk...@nurturingasia.com, 
sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Docker in 
Sugar/XO laptop Message-ID:  
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Thanks for the 
feedback. Just that I have been testing other people web applications 
(and saving me time) with docker that I feel perhaps a kid with an XO 
can do the same and learn something with lighter weight 
virtualization. Hope some developer can take up Sam's and your 
recommendation of Flask. Cheers

>-Original Message-
>From: Sebastian Silva [mailto:sebast...@fuentelibre.org]
>Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 03:55 PM
>To:tkk...@nurturingasia.com,sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Docker in Sugar/XO laptop
>
>
>On 23/05/15 02:00,tkk...@nurturingasia.com  wrote:

>>Hope it makes sense:-)

>
>It still doesn't, to me at least.
>
>It's sounds like you are saying you want to run any linux distro on
>virtualbox on xo. It would be pointless waste of machine resources
>because you are already running a linux distro.
>
>You can write full, professional web apps from Pippy, if you have access
>to one or two extra python packages ( personal favorite, try Flask
>  ). The trick is getting to them, which is why
>Sam's proposal is quite good, access to the Python Package Index from
>Pippy...
>
>-- 
>I+D SomosAzucar.Org

>"icarito" #somosazucar en Freenode IRC
>"Nadie libera a nadie, nadie se libera solo. Los seres humanos se liberan en 
comuni?n" - P. Freire
>
>



--

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Docker in Sugar/XO laptop

2015-05-23 Thread Gonzalo Odiard 
The place that docker would have is distribute Sugar to use in other linux
distributions.
If Docker is a supported container architecture in more environments,
have a Sugar image could be useful.
But not in the context of small devices like the XO,
and not to use Docker as a tool for the kids.
I think is good have someone new in the community, and with expertise in
the platform
exploring the possibilities.

Gonzalo


On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 5:11 AM,  wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback. Just that I have been testing other people web
> applications (and saving me time) with docker that I feel perhaps a kid
> with an XO can do the same and learn something with lighter weight
> virtualization.
>
> Hope some developer can take up Sam's and your recommendation of Flask.
>
> Cheers
>
> >-Original Message-
> >From: Sebastian Silva [mailto:sebast...@fuentelibre.org]
> >Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 03:55 PM
> >To: tkk...@nurturingasia.com, sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> >Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Docker in Sugar/XO laptop
> >
> >
> >On 23/05/15 02:00, tkk...@nurturingasia.com wrote:
> >> Hope it makes sense :-)
> >
> >It still doesn't, to me at least.
> >
> >It's sounds like you are saying you want to run any linux distro on
> >virtualbox on xo. It would be pointless waste of machine resources
> >because you are already running a linux distro.
> >
> >You can write full, professional web apps from Pippy, if you have access
> >to one or two extra python packages ( personal favorite, try Flask
> > ). The trick is getting to them, which is why
> >Sam's proposal is quite good, access to the Python Package Index from
> >Pippy...
> >
> >--
> >I+D SomosAzucar.Org
> >"icarito" #somosazucar en Freenode IRC
> >"Nadie libera a nadie, nadie se libera solo. Los seres humanos se liberan
> en comunión" - P. Freire
> >
> >
>
>
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>



-- 
Gonzalo Odiard

SugarLabs - Software for children learning
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Docker in Sugar/XO laptop

2015-05-23 Thread tkkang 
Thanks for the feedback. Just that I have been testing other people web 
applications (and saving me time) with docker that I feel perhaps a kid with an 
XO can do the same and learn something with lighter weight virtualization.

Hope some developer can take up Sam's and your recommendation of Flask.

Cheers

>-Original Message-
>From: Sebastian Silva [mailto:sebast...@fuentelibre.org]
>Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2015 03:55 PM
>To: tkk...@nurturingasia.com, sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Docker in Sugar/XO laptop
>
>
>On 23/05/15 02:00, tkk...@nurturingasia.com wrote:
>> Hope it makes sense :-)
>
>It still doesn't, to me at least.
>
>It's sounds like you are saying you want to run any linux distro on
>virtualbox on xo. It would be pointless waste of machine resources
>because you are already running a linux distro.
>
>You can write full, professional web apps from Pippy, if you have access
>to one or two extra python packages ( personal favorite, try Flask
> ). The trick is getting to them, which is why
>Sam's proposal is quite good, access to the Python Package Index from
>Pippy...
>
>-- 
>I+D SomosAzucar.Org
>"icarito" #somosazucar en Freenode IRC
>"Nadie libera a nadie, nadie se libera solo. Los seres humanos se liberan en 
>comunión" - P. Freire
>
>


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Docker in Sugar/XO laptop

2015-05-23 Thread Sebastian Silva 

On 23/05/15 02:00, tkk...@nurturingasia.com wrote:
> Hope it makes sense :-)

It still doesn't, to me at least.

It's sounds like you are saying you want to run any linux distro on
virtualbox on xo. It would be pointless waste of machine resources
because you are already running a linux distro.

You can write full, professional web apps from Pippy, if you have access
to one or two extra python packages ( personal favorite, try Flask
 ). The trick is getting to them, which is why
Sam's proposal is quite good, access to the Python Package Index from
Pippy...

-- 
I+D SomosAzucar.Org
"icarito" #somosazucar en Freenode IRC
"Nadie libera a nadie, nadie se libera solo. Los seres humanos se liberan en 
comunión" - P. Freire

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Docker in Sugar/XO laptop

2015-05-23 Thread Sam P. 
Hi,

I'm not sure why docker is a requirement for developing web applications.

Setting up a docker image requires lots of storage space and lots of
download - docker stores a full os to chroot or whatever into.  Even with
there cool CoW file systems, docker still needs to store a least 1 Linux
distribution image.  XOs do not have the disk space and most people do not
have the internet speed.  (Even with a reasonable residential connection it
is nowhere near fast enough to use docker - I find myself ssh-ing into a
server instead)

I'm also not sure why docker needs a gui.  Docker is not a tool needed by
any beginner programmer of the likes of that.  Docker is mainly a tool for
systems administration or containerizing things.

Maybe an interface to pip as part of Pippy activity would be more helpful
for letting kids make web apps.

Thanks,
Sam

On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 5:00 PM  wrote:

>
> >I'm puzzled as to why you would want an XO laptop to host docker
> >applications; thus going slower and having less memory.
>
> Perhaps some real smart children can start using their XO laptop to learn
> how to host various web applications from docker.
>
> >Asking for Docker to be surrounded by Sugar doesn't make any sense.
>
> I mean a sugar activity to start/launch docker that is installed.
>
> >This goes against the idea of a personal computer; where all resources
> >are shared; files, journal, network, hardware.
>
> Using the XO laptop which is a personal computer but turning it into a
> server running web applications for their friends under the tree. They are
> sharing/collaborating in a different way.
>
> Hope it makes sense :-)
>
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Docker in Sugar/XO laptop

2015-05-23 Thread tkkang 

>I'm puzzled as to why you would want an XO laptop to host docker
>applications; thus going slower and having less memory.

Perhaps some real smart children can start using their XO laptop to learn how 
to host various web applications from docker. 

>Asking for Docker to be surrounded by Sugar doesn't make any sense.

I mean a sugar activity to start/launch docker that is installed. 

>This goes against the idea of a personal computer; where all resources
>are shared; files, journal, network, hardware.

Using the XO laptop which is a personal computer but turning it into a server 
running web applications for their friends under the tree. They are 
sharing/collaborating in a different way.

Hope it makes sense :-)


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