Re: [Sugar-devel] Speak Activity

[Tony Anderson]

Wouldn't it be better to make Speak work as described in the documentation?

Tony
On 08/13/2015 12:48 AM, James Cameron wrote:

Yes, please update it Tony.

https://github.com/godiard/help-activity/blob/master/source/speak.rst
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Help/Contribute

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 03:59:58PM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:

Hi, Walter

Thanks. Sadly, that shows we don't have Arabic support in Speak. Perhaps the
Help description on Speak should be updated.

Tony

On 08/12/2015 03:40 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

 On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Tony Anderson [1] 
wrote:

 Hi, Gonzalo

 I am getting involved in a new deployment  which needs Arabic support. 
So I
 was trying to describe what is available and what may need some work. I
 wanted
 to point to the Speak activity but first wanted to check if Arabic is 
one of
 the languages. I was a bit surprised to find that language selection 
is not
 in
 version 51 (13.2.5). The help activity still shows it in the 
screen-shot.

 It is still there, just under the voice attributes toolbar instead of
 on the main toolbar. See attached.

 regards.

 -walter

 Tony
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References:

[1] mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net
[2] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[3] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[4] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
[5] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
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[Sugar-devel] Sugar-runner fails to launch in Fedora 23 with GNOME_KEYRING_PID error

[Frederick Grose]

See https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4886
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support (Tony Anderson) (Frederick Grose)

[Tim Moody]

I agree that phonetic is a better, but I didn't have the time to create the
map.  If you have a map or ordered list, I'd love to have it.  I took that
approach for the limited list of languages on the home page menu (though I
just noticed that Hindi and Kreyol are out of order).

> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2015 16:58:09 -0400
> From: Frederick Grose 
> To: "sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org"
>   
> Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support (Tony Anderson)
> Message-ID:
>mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Gonzalo Odiard 
> wrote:
> 
> > How you get the list of languages and the translated names?
> > On Aug 12, 2015 1:40 PM, "Tim Moody"  wrote:
> >
> >> I did a language picker for xsce and the approach I took was to put
> >> each language in its native form, so Deutsch not German and ?? not
> Hindi.
> >> So in Arabic English would still be English.  The only quandary is
> >> sort order.  I chose unicode, which means all the non-Roman scripts
> >> come at the end.
> >>
> >
> ?The Sugar Labs wiki sidebar source has a Google Translation section that
was
> easy to get translated language names.
> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sidebar&action=edit?
> 
> 
> ?I attempted to sort the list roughly phonetically? according to common
> sounds of Latin alphabet letters.  Wikipedia's language letter code
sorting
> results in something similar due to the selection of the letter codes.
> There are errors due to my ignorance of pronunciation. Reliable
> pronunciation sources would allow the errors to be corrected.
> 
> Center alignment avoids left-to-right vs right-to-left bias.  No attempt
to was
> made to avoid the horizontal vs vertical reading direction bias.
**
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Speak Activity

[James Cameron]

Yes, please update it Tony.

https://github.com/godiard/help-activity/blob/master/source/speak.rst
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Activities/Help/Contribute

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 03:59:58PM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> Hi, Walter
> 
> Thanks. Sadly, that shows we don't have Arabic support in Speak. Perhaps the
> Help description on Speak should be updated.
> 
> Tony
> 
> On 08/12/2015 03:40 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Tony Anderson [1] 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Gonzalo
> 
> I am getting involved in a new deployment  which needs Arabic 
> support. So I
> was trying to describe what is available and what may need some work. 
> I
> wanted
> to point to the Speak activity but first wanted to check if Arabic is 
> one of
> the languages. I was a bit surprised to find that language selection 
> is not
> in
> version 51 (13.2.5). The help activity still shows it in the 
> screen-shot.
> 
> It is still there, just under the voice attributes toolbar instead of
> on the main toolbar. See attached.
> 
> regards.
> 
> -walter
> 
> Tony
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>
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> 
> References:
> 
> [1] mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net
> [2] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> [3] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> [4] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> [5] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel

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-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[James Cameron]

I agree.

Tony, please make sure you test the changes that have already been
done for 0.108.

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 04:19:37PM -0300, Gonzalo Odiard wrote:
> I think Tony is describing a problem on the language selector on 0.106, 
> already
> fixed on 0.108.
> If you add a new language, by default add English -USA,
> if the user don't change that default and restart, the second language is not
> added.
> Try the same on sugar-build and should work
> 
> On Aug 12, 2015 12:49 PM, "Tony Anderson" <[1]tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Walter
> 
> I agree. I meant that the way the language panel is set up now looks like
> that this was the intent of the + and - buttons.  I think the real problem
> with
> that screen is the first line that starts with 'add' coupled with the +
> button which suggests that you should click on + to add another language.
> The
> reset to default button would certainly make it easier to recover from an
> accidental switch.
> 
> Tony
> 
> On 08/12/2015 04:02 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Tony Anderson <[2]
> tony_ander...@usa.net> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Walter
> 
> When I saw the language panel, I thought it was trying to work 
> like
> the Mate
> keyboard panel. You start with a default. You
> add options. Then you use the panel to select an option. Such an
> approach
> would make it easy to 'get out of' a wrong selection.
> 
> I don't think the two are analogous. While you can add language
> options, the typical use is to select the default language, which will
> override the UI after restart. Open to suggestions, but I think a
> reset button that is always in the initial language may be a decent
> solution.
> 
> -walter
> 
> Tony
> 
> On 08/12/2015 03:34 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Tony Anderson <[3]
> tony_ander...@usa.net>
> wrote:
> 
> Hi, Sam
> 
> In Rwanda, the students found the language panel (after
> all, they are
> supposed to try everything) and switched their system to
> Arabic, probably
> because it looked interesting and was at the top of the
> list. However,
> finding a teacher able to switch back to English was a bit
> trickier.
> 
> Actually, I think the developers haven't really thought
> through the
> deployment process. The computers are typically batch
> flashed before
> being
> assigned to students.
> So the setting of nickname, color and now gender and grade
> level can't be
> done at that time. So in our workshops, we need to explain
> to the
> teachers
> how to
> provide (or have the children provide) the correct
> information through
> settings. Despite being one laptop per child, in reality
> many deployments
> share one laptop
> among several students (e.g. class 4 in this hour and 
> class
> 5 in the next
> hour). As a consequence, the statistics gathered by these
> settings are
> really not accurate.
> 
> Not sure what you mean bu accurate, but clearly under these
> circumstances the stats package that Martin developed would
> apply to
> groups of students rather than individual students. It could
> still
> inform us regarding what apps are used in the aggregate.
> 
> Several schools set the nick to a local id number which is
> also written
> on
> the XO. This ID is how students identify which one is
> theirs in the
> charging
> rack.
> 
> So designing a specific interaction on the basis that it
> will be done by
> an
> experienced computer user and that others will be done by
> students and
> teachers is difficult.
> 
> It is inevitable that some laptops are going to have the
> language set
> to a language which makes settings difficult to manage. Maybe
> we
> should have some way to resetti

Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support (Tony Anderson)

[Frederick Grose]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 3:11 PM, Gonzalo Odiard 
wrote:

> How you get the list of languages and the translated names?
> On Aug 12, 2015 1:40 PM, "Tim Moody"  wrote:
>
>> I did a language picker for xsce and the approach I took was to put each
>> language in its native form, so Deutsch not German and हिन्दी not Hindi.
>> So in Arabic English would still be English.  The only quandary is sort
>> order.  I chose unicode, which means all the non-Roman scripts come at the
>> end.
>>
>
​The Sugar Labs wiki sidebar source has a Google Translation section that
was easy to get translated language names.
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Sidebar&action=edit​


​I attempted to sort the list roughly phonetically​ according to common
sounds of Latin alphabet letters.  Wikipedia's language letter code sorting
results in something similar due to the selection of the letter codes.
There are errors due to my ignorance of pronunciation. Reliable
pronunciation sources would allow the errors to be corrected.

Center alignment avoids left-to-right vs right-to-left bias.  No attempt to
was made to avoid the horizontal vs vertical reading direction bias.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Gonzalo Odiard]

I think Tony is describing a problem on the language selector on 0.106,
already fixed on 0.108.
If you add a new language, by default add English -USA,
if the user don't change that default and restart, the second language is
not added.
Try the same on sugar-build and should work
On Aug 12, 2015 12:49 PM, "Tony Anderson"  wrote:

> Hi, Walter
>
> I agree. I meant that the way the language panel is set up now looks like
> that this was the intent of the + and - buttons.  I think the real problem
> with
> that screen is the first line that starts with 'add' coupled with the +
> button which suggests that you should click on + to add another language.
> The
> reset to default button would certainly make it easier to recover from an
> accidental switch.
>
> Tony
>
> On 08/12/2015 04:02 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Tony Anderson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, Walter
>>>
>>> When I saw the language panel, I thought it was trying to work like the
>>> Mate
>>> keyboard panel. You start with a default. You
>>> add options. Then you use the panel to select an option. Such an approach
>>> would make it easy to 'get out of' a wrong selection.
>>>
>> I don't think the two are analogous. While you can add language
>> options, the typical use is to select the default language, which will
>> override the UI after restart. Open to suggestions, but I think a
>> reset button that is always in the initial language may be a decent
>> solution.
>>
>> -walter
>>
>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/12/2015 03:34 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>>>
 On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Tony Anderson 
 wrote:

> Hi, Sam
>
> In Rwanda, the students found the language panel (after all, they are
> supposed to try everything) and switched their system to Arabic,
> probably
> because it looked interesting and was at the top of the list. However,
> finding a teacher able to switch back to English was a bit trickier.
>
> Actually, I think the developers haven't really thought through the
> deployment process. The computers are typically batch flashed before
> being
> assigned to students.
> So the setting of nickname, color and now gender and grade level can't
> be
> done at that time. So in our workshops, we need to explain to the
> teachers
> how to
> provide (or have the children provide) the correct information through
> settings. Despite being one laptop per child, in reality many
> deployments
> share one laptop
> among several students (e.g. class 4 in this hour and class 5 in the
> next
> hour). As a consequence, the statistics gathered by these settings are
> really not accurate.
>
 Not sure what you mean bu accurate, but clearly under these
 circumstances the stats package that Martin developed would apply to
 groups of students rather than individual students. It could still
 inform us regarding what apps are used in the aggregate.

 Several schools set the nick to a local id number which is also written
> on
> the XO. This ID is how students identify which one is theirs in the
> charging
> rack.
>
> So designing a specific interaction on the basis that it will be done
> by
> an
> experienced computer user and that others will be done by students and
> teachers is difficult.
>
 It is inevitable that some laptops are going to have the language set
 to a language which makes settings difficult to manage. Maybe we
 should have some way to resetting to the language in which the laptop
 was originally flashed -- a single button click on the language
 control panel section? This will require our keeping track of the
 initial language, something we don't currently track in Sugar.
 Thoughts on this?

 Tony
>
>
> On 08/12/2015 01:56 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>
> Hey Tony,
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Sam
>>
>> My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how we explain it to
>> users. Remember our target audience is teachers and students in
>> primary
>> school in the
>> developing world with little or no prior computer experience. As
>> developers, we often see things as simple because we have used many
>> others
>> like it. It may not
>> be so simple to those who do not have that experience.
>>
>
> Yep.  But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd be pretty
> amazing
> to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by their
> deployment
> :)
>
> However, we probably should think about the dialect/region selection.
>> If
>> I
>> have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list should be in
>> Arabic.
>>
>
> Ticket:  https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449
>
> We may also want to think about that list - do t

Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support (Tony Anderson)

[Gonzalo Odiard]

How you get the list of languages and the translated names?
On Aug 12, 2015 1:40 PM, "Tim Moody"  wrote:

> I did a language picker for xsce and the approach I took was to put each
> language in its native form, so Deutsch not German and हिन्दी not Hindi.
> So in Arabic English would still be English.  The only quandary is sort
> order.  I chose unicode, which means all the non-Roman scripts come at the
> end.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support (Tony Anderson)

[Tim Moody]

I did a language picker for xsce and the approach I took was to put each 
language in its native form, so Deutsch not German and हिन्दी not Hindi.  So in 
Arabic English would still be English.  The only quandary is sort order.  I 
chose unicode, which means all the non-Roman scripts come at the end.
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Walter

I agree. I meant that the way the language panel is set up now looks 
like that this was the intent of the + and - buttons.  I think the real 
problem with
that screen is the first line that starts with 'add' coupled with the + 
button which suggests that you should click on + to add another 
language. The
reset to default button would certainly make it easier to recover from 
an accidental switch.


Tony

On 08/12/2015 04:02 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Tony Anderson  wrote:

Hi, Walter

When I saw the language panel, I thought it was trying to work like the Mate
keyboard panel. You start with a default. You
add options. Then you use the panel to select an option. Such an approach
would make it easy to 'get out of' a wrong selection.

I don't think the two are analogous. While you can add language
options, the typical use is to select the default language, which will
override the UI after restart. Open to suggestions, but I think a
reset button that is always in the initial language may be a decent
solution.

-walter


Tony



On 08/12/2015 03:34 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Tony Anderson 
wrote:

Hi, Sam

In Rwanda, the students found the language panel (after all, they are
supposed to try everything) and switched their system to Arabic, probably
because it looked interesting and was at the top of the list. However,
finding a teacher able to switch back to English was a bit trickier.

Actually, I think the developers haven't really thought through the
deployment process. The computers are typically batch flashed before
being
assigned to students.
So the setting of nickname, color and now gender and grade level can't be
done at that time. So in our workshops, we need to explain to the
teachers
how to
provide (or have the children provide) the correct information through
settings. Despite being one laptop per child, in reality many deployments
share one laptop
among several students (e.g. class 4 in this hour and class 5 in the next
hour). As a consequence, the statistics gathered by these settings are
really not accurate.

Not sure what you mean bu accurate, but clearly under these
circumstances the stats package that Martin developed would apply to
groups of students rather than individual students. It could still
inform us regarding what apps are used in the aggregate.


Several schools set the nick to a local id number which is also written
on
the XO. This ID is how students identify which one is theirs in the
charging
rack.

So designing a specific interaction on the basis that it will be done by
an
experienced computer user and that others will be done by students and
teachers is difficult.

It is inevitable that some laptops are going to have the language set
to a language which makes settings difficult to manage. Maybe we
should have some way to resetting to the language in which the laptop
was originally flashed -- a single button click on the language
control panel section? This will require our keeping track of the
initial language, something we don't currently track in Sugar.
Thoughts on this?


Tony


On 08/12/2015 01:56 PM, Sam P. wrote:

Hey Tony,

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson 
wrote:

Hi, Sam

My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how we explain it to
users. Remember our target audience is teachers and students in primary
school in the
developing world with little or no prior computer experience. As
developers, we often see things as simple because we have used many
others
like it. It may not
be so simple to those who do not have that experience.


Yep.  But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd be pretty
amazing
to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by their deployment
:)


However, we probably should think about the dialect/region selection. If
I
have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list should be in
Arabic.


Ticket:  https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449


We may also want to think about that list - do the entries represent
countries where the language is spoken or represent dialects? I suspect
the
lists were
copied from earlier releases.


They're just the system languages, so that is an issue for the
distribution.



Tony


On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:

Hi Tony,

The control panel is very simple.  The left column is the language and
the
right column is the region/dialect.

Maybe that should be a column header?

Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons.  The dropdown for
the
language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add a new language
button is a "+".  The hitbox for the expand/contract the dropdown
includes
the button and the label, making it more discoverable.

Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!) to be more
consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui considering it does a very
complex job.

I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image that you are
running,
can can not reproduce many (any

Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Walter Bender]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:55 AM, Tony Anderson  wrote:
> Hi, Walter
>
> When I saw the language panel, I thought it was trying to work like the Mate
> keyboard panel. You start with a default. You
> add options. Then you use the panel to select an option. Such an approach
> would make it easy to 'get out of' a wrong selection.

I don't think the two are analogous. While you can add language
options, the typical use is to select the default language, which will
override the UI after restart. Open to suggestions, but I think a
reset button that is always in the initial language may be a decent
solution.

-walter

>
> Tony
>
>
>
> On 08/12/2015 03:34 PM, Walter Bender wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Tony Anderson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, Sam
>>>
>>> In Rwanda, the students found the language panel (after all, they are
>>> supposed to try everything) and switched their system to Arabic, probably
>>> because it looked interesting and was at the top of the list. However,
>>> finding a teacher able to switch back to English was a bit trickier.
>>>
>>> Actually, I think the developers haven't really thought through the
>>> deployment process. The computers are typically batch flashed before
>>> being
>>> assigned to students.
>>> So the setting of nickname, color and now gender and grade level can't be
>>> done at that time. So in our workshops, we need to explain to the
>>> teachers
>>> how to
>>> provide (or have the children provide) the correct information through
>>> settings. Despite being one laptop per child, in reality many deployments
>>> share one laptop
>>> among several students (e.g. class 4 in this hour and class 5 in the next
>>> hour). As a consequence, the statistics gathered by these settings are
>>> really not accurate.
>>
>> Not sure what you mean bu accurate, but clearly under these
>> circumstances the stats package that Martin developed would apply to
>> groups of students rather than individual students. It could still
>> inform us regarding what apps are used in the aggregate.
>>
>>> Several schools set the nick to a local id number which is also written
>>> on
>>> the XO. This ID is how students identify which one is theirs in the
>>> charging
>>> rack.
>>>
>>> So designing a specific interaction on the basis that it will be done by
>>> an
>>> experienced computer user and that others will be done by students and
>>> teachers is difficult.
>>
>> It is inevitable that some laptops are going to have the language set
>> to a language which makes settings difficult to manage. Maybe we
>> should have some way to resetting to the language in which the laptop
>> was originally flashed -- a single button click on the language
>> control panel section? This will require our keeping track of the
>> initial language, something we don't currently track in Sugar.
>> Thoughts on this?
>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/12/2015 01:56 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey Tony,
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson 
>>> wrote:

 Hi, Sam

 My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how we explain it to
 users. Remember our target audience is teachers and students in primary
 school in the
 developing world with little or no prior computer experience. As
 developers, we often see things as simple because we have used many
 others
 like it. It may not
 be so simple to those who do not have that experience.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yep.  But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd be pretty
>>> amazing
>>> to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by their deployment
>>> :)
>>>

 However, we probably should think about the dialect/region selection. If
 I
 have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list should be in
 Arabic.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ticket:  https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449
>>>

 We may also want to think about that list - do the entries represent
 countries where the language is spoken or represent dialects? I suspect
 the
 lists were
 copied from earlier releases.
>>>
>>>
>>> They're just the system languages, so that is an issue for the
>>> distribution.
>>>


 Tony


 On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:

 Hi Tony,

 The control panel is very simple.  The left column is the language and
 the
 right column is the region/dialect.

 Maybe that should be a column header?

 Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons.  The dropdown for
 the
 language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add a new language
 button is a "+".  The hitbox for the expand/contract the dropdown
 includes
 the button and the label, making it more discoverable.

 Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!) to be more
 consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui considering it does a very
 complex job.

 I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image that you are
>>

Re: [Sugar-devel] Speak Activity

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Walter

Thanks. Sadly, that shows we don't have Arabic support in Speak. Perhaps 
the

Help description on Speak should be updated.

Tony

On 08/12/2015 03:40 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Tony Anderson  wrote:

Hi, Gonzalo

I am getting involved in a new deployment  which needs Arabic support. So I
was trying to describe what is available and what may need some work. I
wanted
to point to the Speak activity but first wanted to check if Arabic is one of
the languages. I was a bit surprised to find that language selection is not
in
version 51 (13.2.5). The help activity still shows it in the screen-shot.

It is still there, just under the voice attributes toolbar instead of
on the main toolbar. See attached.

regards.

-walter

Tony
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Walter

When I saw the language panel, I thought it was trying to work like the 
Mate keyboard panel. You start with a default. You
add options. Then you use the panel to select an option. Such an 
approach would make it easy to 'get out of' a wrong selection.


Tony


On 08/12/2015 03:34 PM, Walter Bender wrote:

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Tony Anderson  wrote:

Hi, Sam

In Rwanda, the students found the language panel (after all, they are
supposed to try everything) and switched their system to Arabic, probably
because it looked interesting and was at the top of the list. However,
finding a teacher able to switch back to English was a bit trickier.

Actually, I think the developers haven't really thought through the
deployment process. The computers are typically batch flashed before being
assigned to students.
So the setting of nickname, color and now gender and grade level can't be
done at that time. So in our workshops, we need to explain to the teachers
how to
provide (or have the children provide) the correct information through
settings. Despite being one laptop per child, in reality many deployments
share one laptop
among several students (e.g. class 4 in this hour and class 5 in the next
hour). As a consequence, the statistics gathered by these settings are
really not accurate.

Not sure what you mean bu accurate, but clearly under these
circumstances the stats package that Martin developed would apply to
groups of students rather than individual students. It could still
inform us regarding what apps are used in the aggregate.


Several schools set the nick to a local id number which is also written on
the XO. This ID is how students identify which one is theirs in the charging
rack.

So designing a specific interaction on the basis that it will be done by an
experienced computer user and that others will be done by students and
teachers is difficult.

It is inevitable that some laptops are going to have the language set
to a language which makes settings difficult to manage. Maybe we
should have some way to resetting to the language in which the laptop
was originally flashed -- a single button click on the language
control panel section? This will require our keeping track of the
initial language, something we don't currently track in Sugar.
Thoughts on this?


Tony


On 08/12/2015 01:56 PM, Sam P. wrote:

Hey Tony,

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson  wrote:

Hi, Sam

My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how we explain it to
users. Remember our target audience is teachers and students in primary
school in the
developing world with little or no prior computer experience. As
developers, we often see things as simple because we have used many others
like it. It may not
be so simple to those who do not have that experience.


Yep.  But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd be pretty amazing
to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by their deployment :)



However, we probably should think about the dialect/region selection. If I
have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list should be in Arabic.


Ticket:  https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449



We may also want to think about that list - do the entries represent
countries where the language is spoken or represent dialects? I suspect the
lists were
copied from earlier releases.


They're just the system languages, so that is an issue for the distribution.




Tony


On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:

Hi Tony,

The control panel is very simple.  The left column is the language and the
right column is the region/dialect.

Maybe that should be a column header?

Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons.  The dropdown for the
language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add a new language
button is a "+".  The hitbox for the expand/contract the dropdown includes
the button and the label, making it more discoverable.

Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!) to be more
consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui considering it does a very
complex job.

I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image that you are running,
can can not reproduce many (any?) of the issues you're describing.

Please consider opening separate tickets for the issues.

Thanks,
Sam

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:26 PM Tony Anderson 
wrote:

Hi,

To continue the story. The way it works, you click on the button to the
left of the language (English) to
get a list. You click on the language to get a dialect (or region?). You
click on the dialect to select it. You then click on the
+ button to get it 'really' selected. You then click on the top right
button to restart as always.

After restarting the added language (German) is the system language.
However, when going back to the
language selection in settings, German is the only language shown. So
you need to click to open the language
list, click on English. This opens up the options of Australien and USA.
Incidentally, that is 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Speak Activity

[Walter Bender]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:22 AM, Tony Anderson  wrote:
> Hi, Gonzalo
>
> I am getting involved in a new deployment  which needs Arabic support. So I
> was trying to describe what is available and what may need some work. I
> wanted
> to point to the Speak activity but first wanted to check if Arabic is one of
> the languages. I was a bit surprised to find that language selection is not
> in
> version 51 (13.2.5). The help activity still shows it in the screen-shot.

It is still there, just under the voice attributes toolbar instead of
on the main toolbar. See attached.

regards.

-walter
>
> Tony
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel



-- 
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Walter Bender]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:13 AM, Tony Anderson  wrote:
> Hi, Sam
>
> In Rwanda, the students found the language panel (after all, they are
> supposed to try everything) and switched their system to Arabic, probably
> because it looked interesting and was at the top of the list. However,
> finding a teacher able to switch back to English was a bit trickier.
>
> Actually, I think the developers haven't really thought through the
> deployment process. The computers are typically batch flashed before being
> assigned to students.
> So the setting of nickname, color and now gender and grade level can't be
> done at that time. So in our workshops, we need to explain to the teachers
> how to
> provide (or have the children provide) the correct information through
> settings. Despite being one laptop per child, in reality many deployments
> share one laptop
> among several students (e.g. class 4 in this hour and class 5 in the next
> hour). As a consequence, the statistics gathered by these settings are
> really not accurate.

Not sure what you mean bu accurate, but clearly under these
circumstances the stats package that Martin developed would apply to
groups of students rather than individual students. It could still
inform us regarding what apps are used in the aggregate.

> Several schools set the nick to a local id number which is also written on
> the XO. This ID is how students identify which one is theirs in the charging
> rack.
>
> So designing a specific interaction on the basis that it will be done by an
> experienced computer user and that others will be done by students and
> teachers is difficult.

It is inevitable that some laptops are going to have the language set
to a language which makes settings difficult to manage. Maybe we
should have some way to resetting to the language in which the laptop
was originally flashed -- a single button click on the language
control panel section? This will require our keeping track of the
initial language, something we don't currently track in Sugar.
Thoughts on this?

>
> Tony
>
>
> On 08/12/2015 01:56 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>
> Hey Tony,
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson  wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Sam
>>
>> My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how we explain it to
>> users. Remember our target audience is teachers and students in primary
>> school in the
>> developing world with little or no prior computer experience. As
>> developers, we often see things as simple because we have used many others
>> like it. It may not
>> be so simple to those who do not have that experience.
>
>
> Yep.  But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd be pretty amazing
> to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by their deployment :)
>
>>
>>
>> However, we probably should think about the dialect/region selection. If I
>> have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list should be in Arabic.
>
>
> Ticket:  https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449
>
>>
>>
>> We may also want to think about that list - do the entries represent
>> countries where the language is spoken or represent dialects? I suspect the
>> lists were
>> copied from earlier releases.
>
>
> They're just the system languages, so that is an issue for the distribution.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tony,
>>
>> The control panel is very simple.  The left column is the language and the
>> right column is the region/dialect.
>>
>> Maybe that should be a column header?
>>
>> Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons.  The dropdown for the
>> language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add a new language
>> button is a "+".  The hitbox for the expand/contract the dropdown includes
>> the button and the label, making it more discoverable.
>>
>> Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!) to be more
>> consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui considering it does a very
>> complex job.
>>
>> I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image that you are running,
>> can can not reproduce many (any?) of the issues you're describing.
>>
>> Please consider opening separate tickets for the issues.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sam
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:26 PM Tony Anderson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> To continue the story. The way it works, you click on the button to the
>>> left of the language (English) to
>>> get a list. You click on the language to get a dialect (or region?). You
>>> click on the dialect to select it. You then click on the
>>> + button to get it 'really' selected. You then click on the top right
>>> button to restart as always.
>>>
>>> After restarting the added language (German) is the system language.
>>> However, when going back to the
>>> language selection in settings, German is the only language shown. So
>>> you need to click to open the language
>>> list, click on English. This opens up the options of Australien and USA.
>>> Incidentally, that is now the only line, the German
>>> option 

[Sugar-devel] Speak Activity

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Gonzalo

I am getting involved in a new deployment  which needs Arabic support. 
So I was trying to describe what is available and what may need some 
work. I wanted
to point to the Speak activity but first wanted to check if Arabic is 
one of the languages. I was a bit surprised to find that language 
selection is not in

version 51 (13.2.5). The help activity still shows it in the screen-shot.

Tony
___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Sam

In Rwanda, the students found the language panel (after all, they are 
supposed to try everything) and switched their system to Arabic, 
probably because it looked interesting and was at the top of the list. 
However, finding a teacher able to switch back to English was a bit 
trickier.


Actually, I think the developers haven't really thought through the 
deployment process. The computers are typically batch flashed before 
being assigned to students.
So the setting of nickname, color and now gender and grade level can't 
be done at that time. So in our workshops, we need to explain to the 
teachers how to
provide (or have the children provide) the correct information through 
settings. Despite being one laptop per child, in reality many 
deployments share one laptop
among several students (e.g. class 4 in this hour and class 5 in the 
next hour). As a consequence, the statistics gathered by these settings 
are really not accurate.
Several schools set the nick to a local id number which is also written 
on the XO. This ID is how students identify which one is theirs in the 
charging rack.


So designing a specific interaction on the basis that it will be done by 
an experienced computer user and that others will be done by students 
and teachers is difficult.


Tony

On 08/12/2015 01:56 PM, Sam P. wrote:

Hey Tony,

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson > wrote:


Hi, Sam

My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how we explain
it to users. Remember our target audience is teachers and students
in primary school in the
developing world with little or no prior computer experience. As
developers, we often see things as simple because we have used
many others like it. It may not
be so simple to those who do not have that experience.


Yep.  But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd be pretty 
amazing to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by their 
deployment :)



However, we probably should think about the dialect/region
selection. If I have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region
list should be in Arabic.


Ticket: https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449


We may also want to think about that list - do the entries
represent countries where the language is spoken or represent
dialects? I suspect the lists were
copied from earlier releases.


They're just the system languages, so that is an issue for the 
distribution.




Tony


On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:

Hi Tony,

The control panel is very simple.  The left column is the
language and the right column is the region/dialect.

Maybe that should be a column header?

Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons.  The
dropdown for the language selectors in a up or down arrow, while
the add a new language button is a "+".  The hitbox for the
expand/contract the dropdown includes the button and the label,
making it more discoverable.

Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!) to be more
consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui considering it does
a very complex job.

I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image that you are
running, can can not reproduce many (any?) of the issues you're
describing.

Please consider opening separate tickets for the issues.

Thanks,
Sam

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:26 PM Tony Anderson
mailto:tony_ander...@usa.net>> wrote:

Hi,

To continue the story. The way it works, you click on the
button to the
left of the language (English) to
get a list. You click on the language to get a dialect (or
region?). You
click on the dialect to select it. You then click on the
+ button to get it 'really' selected. You then click on the
top right
button to restart as always.

After restarting the added language (German) is the system
language.
However, when going back to the
language selection in settings, German is the only language
shown. So
you need to click to open the language
list, click on English. This opens up the options of
Australien and USA.
Incidentally, that is now the only line, the German
option has disappeared.

I tried Arabic. There are 12 regions or dialects available.
That list is
in English. I selected Egypt and was able to
switch to Arabic. To switch back, I clicked on the button to
the left of
Arabic (only line). It lists alternate languages
in a mixture of Arabic and Latin alphabets. English is
evidently shown
in Arabic but Spanish is Spanish. I selected
Spanish getting 21 regional choices all in Arabic except USA.
I selected
USA and switched the system to Spanish.

I then went back to settings and

Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Walter Bender]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 7:56 AM, Sam P.  wrote:
> Hey Tony,
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson  wrote:
>>
>> Hi, Sam
>>
>> My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how we explain it to
>> users. Remember our target audience is teachers and students in primary
>> school in the
>> developing world with little or no prior computer experience. As
>> developers, we often see things as simple because we have used many others
>> like it. It may not
>> be so simple to those who do not have that experience.
>
>
> Yep.  But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd be pretty amazing
> to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by their deployment :)
>
>>
>>
>> However, we probably should think about the dialect/region selection. If I
>> have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list should be in Arabic.
>
>
> Ticket:  https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449

Makes sense. I will investigate as I am the guilty party here.

>
>>
>>
>> We may also want to think about that list - do the entries represent
>> countries where the language is spoken or represent dialects? I suspect the
>> lists were
>> copied from earlier releases.
>
>
> They're just the system languages, so that is an issue for the distribution.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tony,
>>
>> The control panel is very simple.  The left column is the language and the
>> right column is the region/dialect.
>>
>> Maybe that should be a column header?
>>
>> Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons.  The dropdown for the
>> language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add a new language
>> button is a "+".  The hitbox for the expand/contract the dropdown includes
>> the button and the label, making it more discoverable.
>>
>> Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!) to be more
>> consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui considering it does a very
>> complex job.
>>
>> I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image that you are running,
>> can can not reproduce many (any?) of the issues you're describing.
>>
>> Please consider opening separate tickets for the issues.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sam
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:26 PM Tony Anderson 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> To continue the story. The way it works, you click on the button to the
>>> left of the language (English) to
>>> get a list. You click on the language to get a dialect (or region?). You
>>> click on the dialect to select it. You then click on the
>>> + button to get it 'really' selected. You then click on the top right
>>> button to restart as always.
>>>
>>> After restarting the added language (German) is the system language.
>>> However, when going back to the
>>> language selection in settings, German is the only language shown. So
>>> you need to click to open the language
>>> list, click on English. This opens up the options of Australien and USA.
>>> Incidentally, that is now the only line, the German
>>> option has disappeared.
>>>
>>> I tried Arabic. There are 12 regions or dialects available. That list is
>>> in English. I selected Egypt and was able to
>>> switch to Arabic. To switch back, I clicked on the button to the left of
>>> Arabic (only line). It lists alternate languages
>>> in a mixture of Arabic and Latin alphabets. English is evidently shown
>>> in Arabic but Spanish is Spanish. I selected
>>> Spanish getting 21 regional choices all in Arabic except USA. I selected
>>> USA and switched the system to Spanish.
>>>
>>> I then went back to settings and got a list of languages in Spanish
>>> (Inglés). I selected that option and got a choice
>>> of Australia and USA. I was able to get back to the original English,
>>> USA option.
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>> On 08/12/2015 12:55 PM, Tony Anderson wrote:
>>> > I was surprised and embarrassed yesterday trying to show how easy it
>>> > is to switch
>>> > languages. I was using a 13.2.5 image.
>>> >
>>> > In previous versions, you go to settings and language and get a long
>>> > list of supported
>>> > languages. In 13.2.5, you get a statement: 'Add languages in the order
>>> > you prefer'.
>>> > So I clicked on + to add German. It added another row: English USA + -
>>> >
>>> > In the press of the moment, I couldn't find any other language that
>>> > English USA.
>>> >
>>> > However, today I found that the trick is to click on the button to the
>>> > left of the word English. This
>>> > opens the expected list. Click on German adds a line with dialects:
>>> > Austria, Belgium, Germany, ...
>>> >
>>> > Unfortunately, the use of the word 'add' together with a '+' button at
>>> > least in my case led to confusion.
>>> >
>>> > Tony
>>> > ___
>>> > Sugar-devel mailing list
>>> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>> > .
>>> >
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>>> Sugar-devel

Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Sam P.]

Hey Tony,

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:51 PM Tony Anderson  wrote:

> Hi, Sam
>
> My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how we explain it to
> users. Remember our target audience is teachers and students in primary
> school in the
> developing world with little or no prior computer experience. As
> developers, we often see things as simple because we have used many others
> like it. It may not
> be so simple to those who do not have that experience.
>

Yep.  But we don't have a selector in the intro, so they'd be pretty
amazing to find the language settings if it wasn't configured by their
deployment :)


>
> However, we probably should think about the dialect/region selection. If I
> have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list should be in Arabic.
>

Ticket:  https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/4449


>
> We may also want to think about that list - do the entries represent
> countries where the language is spoken or represent dialects? I suspect the
> lists were
> copied from earlier releases.
>

They're just the system languages, so that is an issue for the distribution.


>
>
> Tony
>
>
> On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> The control panel is very simple.  The left column is the language and the
> right column is the region/dialect.
>
> Maybe that should be a column header?
>
> Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons.  The dropdown for the
> language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add a new language
> button is a "+".  The hitbox for the expand/contract the dropdown includes
> the button and the label, making it more discoverable.
>
> Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!) to be more
> consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui considering it does a very
> complex job.
>
> I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image that you are running,
> can can not reproduce many (any?) of the issues you're describing.
>
> Please consider opening separate tickets for the issues.
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
> On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:26 PM Tony Anderson 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> To continue the story. The way it works, you click on the button to the
>> left of the language (English) to
>> get a list. You click on the language to get a dialect (or region?). You
>> click on the dialect to select it. You then click on the
>> + button to get it 'really' selected. You then click on the top right
>> button to restart as always.
>>
>> After restarting the added language (German) is the system language.
>> However, when going back to the
>> language selection in settings, German is the only language shown. So
>> you need to click to open the language
>> list, click on English. This opens up the options of Australien and USA.
>> Incidentally, that is now the only line, the German
>> option has disappeared.
>>
>> I tried Arabic. There are 12 regions or dialects available. That list is
>> in English. I selected Egypt and was able to
>> switch to Arabic. To switch back, I clicked on the button to the left of
>> Arabic (only line). It lists alternate languages
>> in a mixture of Arabic and Latin alphabets. English is evidently shown
>> in Arabic but Spanish is Spanish. I selected
>> Spanish getting 21 regional choices all in Arabic except USA. I selected
>> USA and switched the system to Spanish.
>>
>> I then went back to settings and got a list of languages in Spanish
>> (Inglés). I selected that option and got a choice
>> of Australia and USA. I was able to get back to the original English,
>> USA option.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On 08/12/2015 12:55 PM, Tony Anderson wrote:
>> > I was surprised and embarrassed yesterday trying to show how easy it
>> > is to switch
>> > languages. I was using a 13.2.5 image.
>> >
>> > In previous versions, you go to settings and language and get a long
>> > list of supported
>> > languages. In 13.2.5, you get a statement: 'Add languages in the order
>> > you prefer'.
>> > So I clicked on + to add German. It added another row: English USA + -
>> >
>> > In the press of the moment, I couldn't find any other language that
>> > English USA.
>> >
>> > However, today I found that the trick is to click on the button to the
>> > left of the word English. This
>> > opens the expected list. Click on German adds a line with dialects:
>> > Austria, Belgium, Germany, ...
>> >
>> > Unfortunately, the use of the word 'add' together with a '+' button at
>> > least in my case led to confusion.
>> >
>> > Tony
>> > ___
>> > Sugar-devel mailing list
>> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>> > .
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>
>
___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Tony Anderson]

Hi, Sam

My concern is not the execution of the panel, but how we explain it to 
users. Remember our target audience is teachers and students in primary 
school in the
developing world with little or no prior computer experience. As 
developers, we often see things as simple because we have used many 
others like it. It may not

be so simple to those who do not have that experience.

However, we probably should think about the dialect/region selection. If 
I have selected Arabic, perhaps the dialect/region list should be in Arabic.


We may also want to think about that list - do the entries represent 
countries where the language is spoken or represent dialects? I suspect 
the lists were

copied from earlier releases.

Tony

On 08/12/2015 01:38 PM, Sam P. wrote:

Hi Tony,

The control panel is very simple.  The left column is the language and 
the right column is the region/dialect.


Maybe that should be a column header?

Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons. The dropdown for 
the language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add a new 
language button is a "+". The hitbox for the expand/contract the 
dropdown includes the button and the label, making it more discoverable.


Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!) to be more 
consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui considering it does a 
very complex job.


I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image that you are 
running, can can not reproduce many (any?) of the issues you're 
describing.


Please consider opening separate tickets for the issues.

Thanks,
Sam

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:26 PM Tony Anderson > wrote:


Hi,

To continue the story. The way it works, you click on the button
to the
left of the language (English) to
get a list. You click on the language to get a dialect (or
region?). You
click on the dialect to select it. You then click on the
+ button to get it 'really' selected. You then click on the top right
button to restart as always.

After restarting the added language (German) is the system language.
However, when going back to the
language selection in settings, German is the only language shown. So
you need to click to open the language
list, click on English. This opens up the options of Australien
and USA.
Incidentally, that is now the only line, the German
option has disappeared.

I tried Arabic. There are 12 regions or dialects available. That
list is
in English. I selected Egypt and was able to
switch to Arabic. To switch back, I clicked on the button to the
left of
Arabic (only line). It lists alternate languages
in a mixture of Arabic and Latin alphabets. English is evidently shown
in Arabic but Spanish is Spanish. I selected
Spanish getting 21 regional choices all in Arabic except USA. I
selected
USA and switched the system to Spanish.

I then went back to settings and got a list of languages in Spanish
(Inglés). I selected that option and got a choice
of Australia and USA. I was able to get back to the original English,
USA option.

Tony


On 08/12/2015 12:55 PM, Tony Anderson wrote:
> I was surprised and embarrassed yesterday trying to show how easy it
> is to switch
> languages. I was using a 13.2.5 image.
>
> In previous versions, you go to settings and language and get a long
> list of supported
> languages. In 13.2.5, you get a statement: 'Add languages in the
order
> you prefer'.
> So I clicked on + to add German. It added another row: English
USA + -
>
> In the press of the moment, I couldn't find any other language that
> English USA.
>
> However, today I found that the trick is to click on the button
to the
> left of the word English. This
> opens the expected list. Click on German adds a line with dialects:
> Austria, Belgium, Germany, ...
>
> Unfortunately, the use of the word 'add' together with a '+'
button at
> least in my case led to confusion.
>
> Tony
> ___
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> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org

> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> .
>

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Sam P.]

Hi Tony,

The control panel is very simple.  The left column is the language and the
right column is the region/dialect.

Maybe that should be a column header?

Also, there is no conflicting "+" and "add" buttons.  The dropdown for the
language selectors in a up or down arrow, while the add a new language
button is a "+".  The hitbox for the expand/contract the dropdown includes
the button and the label, making it more discoverable.

Maybe it should use palettes (or modals with search!) to be more
consistent, but it is actually a very nice ui considering it does a very
complex job.

I opened the control panel on the same OLPC OS image that you are running,
can can not reproduce many (any?) of the issues you're describing.

Please consider opening separate tickets for the issues.

Thanks,
Sam

On Wed, Aug 12, 2015 at 9:26 PM Tony Anderson  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> To continue the story. The way it works, you click on the button to the
> left of the language (English) to
> get a list. You click on the language to get a dialect (or region?). You
> click on the dialect to select it. You then click on the
> + button to get it 'really' selected. You then click on the top right
> button to restart as always.
>
> After restarting the added language (German) is the system language.
> However, when going back to the
> language selection in settings, German is the only language shown. So
> you need to click to open the language
> list, click on English. This opens up the options of Australien and USA.
> Incidentally, that is now the only line, the German
> option has disappeared.
>
> I tried Arabic. There are 12 regions or dialects available. That list is
> in English. I selected Egypt and was able to
> switch to Arabic. To switch back, I clicked on the button to the left of
> Arabic (only line). It lists alternate languages
> in a mixture of Arabic and Latin alphabets. English is evidently shown
> in Arabic but Spanish is Spanish. I selected
> Spanish getting 21 regional choices all in Arabic except USA. I selected
> USA and switched the system to Spanish.
>
> I then went back to settings and got a list of languages in Spanish
> (Inglés). I selected that option and got a choice
> of Australia and USA. I was able to get back to the original English,
> USA option.
>
> Tony
>
>
> On 08/12/2015 12:55 PM, Tony Anderson wrote:
> > I was surprised and embarrassed yesterday trying to show how easy it
> > is to switch
> > languages. I was using a 13.2.5 image.
> >
> > In previous versions, you go to settings and language and get a long
> > list of supported
> > languages. In 13.2.5, you get a statement: 'Add languages in the order
> > you prefer'.
> > So I clicked on + to add German. It added another row: English USA + -
> >
> > In the press of the moment, I couldn't find any other language that
> > English USA.
> >
> > However, today I found that the trick is to click on the button to the
> > left of the word English. This
> > opens the expected list. Click on German adds a line with dialects:
> > Austria, Belgium, Germany, ...
> >
> > Unfortunately, the use of the word 'add' together with a '+' button at
> > least in my case led to confusion.
> >
> > Tony
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
> > .
> >
>
> ___
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> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Tony Anderson]

Hi,

To continue the story. The way it works, you click on the button to the 
left of the language (English) to
get a list. You click on the language to get a dialect (or region?). You 
click on the dialect to select it. You then click on the
+ button to get it 'really' selected. You then click on the top right 
button to restart as always.


After restarting the added language (German) is the system language. 
However, when going back to the
language selection in settings, German is the only language shown. So 
you need to click to open the language
list, click on English. This opens up the options of Australien and USA. 
Incidentally, that is now the only line, the German

option has disappeared.

I tried Arabic. There are 12 regions or dialects available. That list is 
in English. I selected Egypt and was able to
switch to Arabic. To switch back, I clicked on the button to the left of 
Arabic (only line). It lists alternate languages
in a mixture of Arabic and Latin alphabets. English is evidently shown 
in Arabic but Spanish is Spanish. I selected
Spanish getting 21 regional choices all in Arabic except USA. I selected 
USA and switched the system to Spanish.


I then went back to settings and got a list of languages in Spanish 
(Inglés). I selected that option and got a choice
of Australia and USA. I was able to get back to the original English, 
USA option.


Tony


On 08/12/2015 12:55 PM, Tony Anderson wrote:
I was surprised and embarrassed yesterday trying to show how easy it 
is to switch

languages. I was using a 13.2.5 image.

In previous versions, you go to settings and language and get a long 
list of supported
languages. In 13.2.5, you get a statement: 'Add languages in the order 
you prefer'.

So I clicked on + to add German. It added another row: English USA + -

In the press of the moment, I couldn't find any other language that 
English USA.


However, today I found that the trick is to click on the button to the 
left of the word English. This
opens the expected list. Click on German adds a line with dialects: 
Austria, Belgium, Germany, ...


Unfortunately, the use of the word 'add' together with a '+' button at 
least in my case led to confusion.


Tony
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.



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[Sugar-devel] Language Support

[Tony Anderson]

I was surprised and embarrassed yesterday trying to show how easy it is 
to switch

languages. I was using a 13.2.5 image.

In previous versions, you go to settings and language and get a long 
list of supported
languages. In 13.2.5, you get a statement: 'Add languages in the order 
you prefer'.

So I clicked on + to add German. It added another row: English USA + -

In the press of the moment, I couldn't find any other language that 
English USA.


However, today I found that the trick is to click on the button to the 
left of the word English. This
opens the expected list. Click on German adds a line with dialects: 
Austria, Belgium, Germany, ...


Unfortunately, the use of the word 'add' together with a '+' button at 
least in my case led to confusion.


Tony
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