[Sugar-devel] [RELEASE] Sugar 0.114 stable

[James Cameron]

Sugar 0.114 is released, with a few fixes.

Downloads;


http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-artwork/sugar-artwork-0.114.tar.xz

http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-datastore/sugar-datastore-0.114.tar.xz

http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/sugar-toolkit-gtk3-0.114.tar.xz

http://download.sugarlabs.org/sources/sucrose/glucose/sugar/sugar-0.114.tar.xz

A v0.114 tag has been pushed to each repository.

No dependencies have changed.

(After checking the mailing list subscribers for sugar-devel@, there
are no downstream packagers subscribed.  Use your downstream
mechanisms to get their attention if necessary.)

Brief change log by module below.

sugar-artwork

* No changes

sugar-datastore

* No changes

sugar-toolkit-gtk3

* New translations,
* Build for either python 2 or python 3 (James Cameron),
* Fix collaboration call_async (James Cameron),
* Clean up activity environment variables (James Cameron),
* Add distributed source to .gitignore (James Cameron),
* Add flake8 suppression (James Cameron),

sugar

* Documentation for native environment configurations (James Cameron),
* Embed popwindow code in activitychooser (Rahul Bothra),
* Add flake8 suppression (James Cameron),

sha256 checksums;

0d9c63bf861d6facf8d64046ab76191a6a6b4b54daad778b40e3be1e45aa2db0  
sugar-artwork/sugar-artwork-0.114.tar.xz
eb4256f1cbf90a9a7d5dd30446e0d0d1a240db02e3104a6339e2f4497dcda4c8  
sugar-datastore/sugar-datastore-0.114.tar.xz
0917276ed41684b885bdac063562fcdfb682660700ee142a02b516a3eeecdbb1  
sugar/sugar-0.114.tar.xz
4b8ca467b85b6273fdb3ae86b1afa5071f4c0c6e11a27e9166a394620c2c77e5  
sugar-toolkit-gtk3/sugar-toolkit-gtk3-0.114.tar.xz

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 07:09:44PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote:
> James, I may have a patch (if I can find it) to the WeDo activity
> that I used to maintain with a major speed up. I'll try to dig it
> up. Or were you using the WeDo plugin?

Neither, sorry.  The state government equipment kit arrived with
preconfigured iPads.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Walter Bender]

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 2:58 PM James Cameron  wrote:

> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:00:07AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> > Thanks for the quick responses,  Chihurumnaya and James!  Yes,
> > pressing F3 did the trick.
>
> Yay!
>
> > I should have remembered that from my OLPC days, but it has been so
> > long since I've used Sugar.  Incidentally, I had forgotten that I
> > lent my last two XO4's to a former student so that he could
> > experiment with mesh networking.  He is finished with them and is
> > returning them to me.  A quick look at:
> >
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0
> >
> > reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
> > Ubuntu 18.04,
>
> No, it's not for your XOs.
>
> > but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
> > Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?
>
> No, I fixed it.
>
> > James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
> > has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the
> > website instructions for creating your own microSD card are super
> > easy using etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first
> > boot from the resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that
> > expands the file system to fill the card, so the steps are really
> > just:
> >
> > 1. Install Etcher.
> > 2. Download the Raspian image file.
> > 3. Write it to the microSD card.
> > 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
> > 5. Enjoy your new operating system!
> >
> > That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it
> > is cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI,
> > and works like a charm.
>
> You most likely have more skills than the people I've trained in this
> recipe.  We must think of the people who are prevented by disadvantage
> from gaining these skills.
>
> But my question was answered, thanks.  I now know what level of skill
> you are aiming for, and that means we can collaborate further.
>
> It's a how long is a piece of string argument.
>
> Given that level of skill, a *truly* beginner friendly installation
> recipe that you have as a goal should be (a) install Raspbian, (b)
> install Sugar.
>
> Step (a) is already well documented by the Raspberry Pi Foundation,
> and many Raspberry Pi are purchased with preloaded Raspbian.
>
> Step (b) recipe is here;
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/debian.md
>
> It works now for Debian Stretch, and when Debian Buster is released it
> should be the same.
>
> Step (b) could be improved by writing a script to do the install, and
> fix any of the bugs that haven't been fixed in the Debian packages.
> Or the bugs might be reported to Debian instead.  I prefer the latter,
> because the rising tide lifts all boats.
>
> If you begin to do this, you'll probably be the first person doing it
> for years.  Thank you!
>
> > Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
> > reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I
> > was able to get to the main activity window and see the four
> > activities.  Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.
>
> Also test the hidden activities.  You can see these with F3 Ctrl-2.
>
> > I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that
> > you see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar.  I'm not
> > going to try to push things onto Debian stretch.
>
> Reporting the problems against Debian Stretch can still be useful, as
> the problem may not yet be fixed in Debian Buster, and the problem may
> end up being fixed in Debian Stretch updates if it is sufficiently
> severe or security related.
>
> But you are correct that reporting against Debian Buster is a good
> thing to do as well.
>
> > Buster is looking like it will become the stable distro sometime
> > this Summer.  After that settles would be a good time to talk about
> > a deployment recipe for buster.  Since I'm a school teacher and
> > won't have students during June, July and August, I'm really hoping
> > to ramp this up next September in any case.
>
> Great.  Looking forward to it.
>
> I spent a few hours yesterday in a volunteer teaching team applying
> prior Turtle Blocks learning to Lego WeDo kits.  Mixed class of three
> different grades, in a remote school.  The class teacher stayed
> involved, so we've got useful knowledge transfer happening.  Being in
> the southern hemisphere, I'll have students during those months, but
> it's only part time.
>
> > Thanks!
> > Jeff
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>

Sorry to be late on this thread. Busy work week.

Jeff, great to have you back in the fold.

James, I may have a patch (if I can find it) to the WeDo activity that I
used to maintain with a major 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:00:07AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> Thanks for the quick responses,  Chihurumnaya and James!  Yes,
> pressing F3 did the trick.

Yay!

> I should have remembered that from my OLPC days, but it has been so
> long since I've used Sugar.  Incidentally, I had forgotten that I
> lent my last two XO4's to a former student so that he could
> experiment with mesh networking.  He is finished with them and is
> returning them to me.  A quick look at:
> 
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0
> 
> reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
> Ubuntu 18.04,

No, it's not for your XOs.

> but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
> Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?

No, I fixed it.

> James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
> has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the
> website instructions for creating your own microSD card are super
> easy using etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first
> boot from the resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that
> expands the file system to fill the card, so the steps are really
> just:
> 
> 1. Install Etcher.
> 2. Download the Raspian image file.
> 3. Write it to the microSD card.
> 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
> 5. Enjoy your new operating system!
> 
> That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it
> is cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI,
> and works like a charm.

You most likely have more skills than the people I've trained in this
recipe.  We must think of the people who are prevented by disadvantage
from gaining these skills.

But my question was answered, thanks.  I now know what level of skill
you are aiming for, and that means we can collaborate further.

It's a how long is a piece of string argument.

Given that level of skill, a *truly* beginner friendly installation
recipe that you have as a goal should be (a) install Raspbian, (b)
install Sugar.

Step (a) is already well documented by the Raspberry Pi Foundation,
and many Raspberry Pi are purchased with preloaded Raspbian.

Step (b) recipe is here;
https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/debian.md

It works now for Debian Stretch, and when Debian Buster is released it
should be the same.

Step (b) could be improved by writing a script to do the install, and
fix any of the bugs that haven't been fixed in the Debian packages.
Or the bugs might be reported to Debian instead.  I prefer the latter,
because the rising tide lifts all boats.

If you begin to do this, you'll probably be the first person doing it
for years.  Thank you!

> Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
> reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I
> was able to get to the main activity window and see the four
> activities.  Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.

Also test the hidden activities.  You can see these with F3 Ctrl-2.

> I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that
> you see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar.  I'm not
> going to try to push things onto Debian stretch.

Reporting the problems against Debian Stretch can still be useful, as
the problem may not yet be fixed in Debian Buster, and the problem may
end up being fixed in Debian Stretch updates if it is sufficiently
severe or security related.

But you are correct that reporting against Debian Buster is a good
thing to do as well.

> Buster is looking like it will become the stable distro sometime
> this Summer.  After that settles would be a good time to talk about
> a deployment recipe for buster.  Since I'm a school teacher and
> won't have students during June, July and August, I'm really hoping
> to ramp this up next September in any case.

Great.  Looking forward to it.

I spent a few hours yesterday in a volunteer teaching team applying
prior Turtle Blocks learning to Lego WeDo kits.  Mixed class of three
different grades, in a remote school.  The class teacher stayed
involved, so we've got useful knowledge transfer happening.  Being in
the southern hemisphere, I'll have students during those months, but
it's only part time.

> Thanks!
> Jeff

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

Yes.  https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 01:19:10PM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> Should I file an issue to add libgli2.0-dev as a dependency to the
> sugar-browse-activity package?  If so, where?
> 
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:15 PM Jeff Elkner  wrote:
> >
> > It did! ;-)
> >
> > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:09 PM Alex Perez  wrote:
> > >
> > > There are two errors in this log file:
> > >
> > > sh: 1: glib-compile-schemas: not found
> > > and
> > > gi.repository.GLib.Error: g-file-error-quark: Failed to open file 
> > > “/home/jelkner/.sugar/default/org.laptop.WebActivity/data/schemas/gschemas.compiled”:
> > >  open() failed: No such file or directory (4)
> > >
> > >
> > > Try sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-dev and see if it sorts this out, 
> > > although I'm not sure it will.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/17/19 9:01 AM:
> > >
> > >
> > > When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started 
> > > the activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
> > > can you show us the activity log, it can be found in 
> > > `/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.
> > >
> > >

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Jeff Elkner]

Should I file an issue to add libgli2.0-dev as a dependency to the
sugar-browse-activity package?  If so, where?

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:15 PM Jeff Elkner  wrote:
>
> It did! ;-)
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:09 PM Alex Perez  wrote:
> >
> > There are two errors in this log file:
> >
> > sh: 1: glib-compile-schemas: not found
> > and
> > gi.repository.GLib.Error: g-file-error-quark: Failed to open file 
> > “/home/jelkner/.sugar/default/org.laptop.WebActivity/data/schemas/gschemas.compiled”:
> >  open() failed: No such file or directory (4)
> >
> >
> > Try sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-dev and see if it sorts this out, 
> > although I'm not sure it will.
> >
> >
> > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/17/19 9:01 AM:
> >
> >
> > When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the 
> > activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
> > can you show us the activity log, it can be found in 
> > `/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.
> >
> >
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Alex Perez]

There are two errors in this log file:

sh: 1: glib-compile-schemas: not found
and
gi.repository.GLib.Error: g-file-error-quark: Failed to open file 
“/home/jelkner/.sugar/default/org.laptop.WebActivity/data/schemas/gschemas.compiled”: 
open() failed: No such file or directory (4)



|Try sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-dev and see if it sorts this out, 
although I'm not sure it will.|

||

||


Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/17/19 9:01 AM:


When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started 
the activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
can you show us the activity log, it can be found in 
`/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Jeff Elkner]

I've attached the file.  ~ Jeff

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:41 AM Chihurumnaya Ibiam
 wrote:
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:00 PM Jeff Elkner  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the quick responses,  Chihurumnaya and James!  Yes,
>> pressing F3 did the trick.  I should have remembered that from my OLPC
>> days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar.  Incidentally, I
>> had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so
>> that he could experiment with mesh networking.  He is finished with
>> them and is returning them to me.  A quick look at:
>>
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0
>>
>> reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
>> Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
>> Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?
>>
>> James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
>> has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
>> purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the website
>> instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using
>> etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first boot from the
>> resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the
>> file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just:
>>
>> 1. Install Etcher.
>> 2. Download the Raspian image file.
>> 3. Write it to the microSD card.
>> 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
>> 5. Enjoy your new operating system!
>>
>> That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is
>> cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and
>> works like a charm.
>>
>> Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
>> reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was
>> able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities.
>> Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.
>
>
> When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the 
> activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
> can you show us the activity log, it can be found in 
> `/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.
>>
>>
>> I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you
>> see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar.  I'm not going to
>> try to push things onto Debian stretch.  Buster is looking like it
>> will become the stable distro sometime this Summer.  After that
>> settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for
>> buster.  Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during
>> June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next
>> September in any case.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Jeff
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
>
> Ibiam Chihurumnaya
> ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron  wrote:
>> >
>> > I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view.  Use the F3
>> > key, as I said.  See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch
>> > between views.
>> >
>> > Yes, what you are doing is useful.  For your assumed goal of *truly*
>> > begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements
>> > for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about.
>> >
>> > Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
>> > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS).  I've guided adults and
>> > children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very
>> > difficult and way outside the usual skills people have.
>> >
>> > I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and
>> > Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the
>> > Journal appearing first.  I've also removed the now unavailable
>> > packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues
>> > to work fine.  While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in
>> > 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and
>> > if you want that you're better off making your own packages or
>> > reporting bugs to Debian.
>> >
>> > Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages
>> > from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository.
>> >
>> > http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/
>> >
>> > When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use
>> > https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
>> > > OK, progress.  Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities
>> > > are not showing (see screenshot).  In the instant that the Desktop
>> > > displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4
>> > > activities.
>> > >
>> > > I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the
>> > > community, and that we are on the same page.  Here are my assumed
>> > > goals:
>> > >
>> > > 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as
>> > > a 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Chihurumnaya Ibiam]

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:00 PM Jeff Elkner  wrote:

> Thanks for the quick responses,  Chihurumnaya and James!  Yes,
> pressing F3 did the trick.  I should have remembered that from my OLPC
> days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar.  Incidentally, I
> had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so
> that he could experiment with mesh networking.  He is finished with
> them and is returning them to me.  A quick look at:
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0
>
> reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
> Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
> Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?
>
> James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
> has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the website
> instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using
> etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first boot from the
> resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the
> file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just:
>
> 1. Install Etcher.
> 2. Download the Raspian image file.
> 3. Write it to the microSD card.
> 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
> 5. Enjoy your new operating system!
>
> That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is
> cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and
> works like a charm.
>
> Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
> reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was
> able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities.
> Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.
>

When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the
activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
can you show us the activity log, it can be found in
`/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.

>
> I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you
> see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar.  I'm not going to
> try to push things onto Debian stretch.  Buster is looking like it
> will become the stable distro sometime this Summer.  After that
> settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for
> buster.  Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during
> June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next
> September in any case.
>
> Thanks!
> Jeff
>

Thanks.


-- 

Ibiam Chihurumnaya
ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com


>
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron  wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view.  Use the F3
> > key, as I said.  See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch
> > between views.
> >
> > Yes, what you are doing is useful.  For your assumed goal of *truly*
> > begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements
> > for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about.
> >
> > Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS).  I've guided adults and
> > children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very
> > difficult and way outside the usual skills people have.
> >
> > I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and
> > Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the
> > Journal appearing first.  I've also removed the now unavailable
> > packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues
> > to work fine.  While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in
> > 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and
> > if you want that you're better off making your own packages or
> > reporting bugs to Debian.
> >
> > Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages
> > from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository.
> >
> > http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/
> >
> > When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use
> > https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs
> >
> > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> > > OK, progress.  Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities
> > > are not showing (see screenshot).  In the instant that the Desktop
> > > displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4
> > > activities.
> > >
> > > I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the
> > > community, and that we are on the same page.  Here are my assumed
> > > goals:
> > >
> > > 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as
> > > a wonderful side effect) as the target platform.
> > > 2. A  *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a
> > > working Sugar desktop on Raspbian.
> > >
> > > Once we have that available, I could begin 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Alex Perez]

Jeff,

Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/17/19 8:00 AM:

...vreveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
Ubuntu18.04,  but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?


No, OLPC OS 18.04 will not flash to Any original XO (XO-1, XO-1.5, 
XO-1.75, or XO-4) machines. At the URL you cited, the supported 
platforms are stated as "The target platforms are NL3 and ED20" which is 
exclusive of any of the original XO laptops. Furthermore, this 
(official) version does not suffer from the Metacity bug.


OLPC OS 13.2.10  is the latest 
official version from OLPC for all XO laptops.


OLPC OS 18.04 is likely to work on unsupported hardware, however you 
will not be able to get any help from OLPC, nor from Sugar Labs, if you 
choose to go that route, as we have no control over the composition of 
this customized distribution.

James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the website
instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using
etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first boot from the
resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the
file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just:


Agreed, this is not hard for most people to do, even if it may be 
unfamiliar territory, especially the first time. Using something like 
Etcher, Fedora Image Writer (for Fedora, obviously) takes away most of 
the uncertainty for first time users.


Regards,
Alex Perez
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Jeff Elkner]

Thanks for the quick responses,  Chihurumnaya and James!  Yes,
pressing F3 did the trick.  I should have remembered that from my OLPC
days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar.  Incidentally, I
had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so
that he could experiment with mesh networking.  He is finished with
them and is returning them to me.  A quick look at:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0

reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?

James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the website
instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using
etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first boot from the
resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the
file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just:

1. Install Etcher.
2. Download the Raspian image file.
3. Write it to the microSD card.
4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
5. Enjoy your new operating system!

That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is
cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and
works like a charm.

Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was
able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities.
Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.

I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you
see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar.  I'm not going to
try to push things onto Debian stretch.  Buster is looking like it
will become the stable distro sometime this Summer.  After that
settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for
buster.  Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during
June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next
September in any case.

Thanks!
Jeff

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron  wrote:
>
> I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view.  Use the F3
> key, as I said.  See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch
> between views.
>
> Yes, what you are doing is useful.  For your assumed goal of *truly*
> begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements
> for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about.
>
> Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS).  I've guided adults and
> children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very
> difficult and way outside the usual skills people have.
>
> I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and
> Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the
> Journal appearing first.  I've also removed the now unavailable
> packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues
> to work fine.  While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in
> 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and
> if you want that you're better off making your own packages or
> reporting bugs to Debian.
>
> Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages
> from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository.
>
> http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/
>
> When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use
> https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs
>
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> > OK, progress.  Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities
> > are not showing (see screenshot).  In the instant that the Desktop
> > displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4
> > activities.
> >
> > I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the
> > community, and that we are on the same page.  Here are my assumed
> > goals:
> >
> > 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as
> > a wonderful side effect) as the target platform.
> > 2. A  *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a
> > working Sugar desktop on Raspbian.
> >
> > Once we have that available, I could begin to promote Sugar as a
> > learning platform within my school district, developing OER
> > educational curricula for it.
> >
> > I feel like we have a timely opportunity. Python has won the day, and
> > after years (I started using Python in 1999) of being somewhat of a
> > pariah within my school system for my insistence on teaching with it,
> > I now actually look prescient and am sought after for advice.  So if
> > we can get a working system together, I think I could round up both
> > students and staff to contribute, helping to grow the 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Toolkit Installation Sugar v0.113

[James Cameron]

Aniket, I've refined the native environment instructions after testing
on Fedora 30 and Ubuntu 19.04.  I've made a pull request here;

https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/830

It is a hybrid configuration, which may leave a copy of the downstream
Sugar packages in /usr, and our latest HEAD in /usr/local.  I'm not
sure how reliable this may be; there were some oddities with respect
to paths.  If using this hybrid configuration, look for problems
caused by the wrong code being run.

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 02:00:59PM +1000, James Cameron wrote:
> Thanks for testing, Aniket.
> 
> Because 0.113 introduces a dependency on Six for the first time, the
> method of resolving dependencies in the instructions is out of date.
> 
> I've added
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/829/commits/97d1ef60b65a0fffe52ec4070944e2b03fe56ac2
> to the pull request.
> 
> Yes, you are correct that dependencies are not added during build,
> this is something you may have to do yourself.
> 
> For instance, after you've built Sugar, there are a set of run-time
> dependencies to install.  I'm working on refining the instructions
> some more.  Let me know how you go.
> 
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 09:23:08AM +0530, ANIKET MATHUR wrote:
> > hey,
> > I tested the changes that James made.
> > I started with a fresh Ubuntu 18.04 VM. Cloned artwork, datastore,
> > toolkit-gtk3, and sugar.
> > Applied his patch to toolkit-gtk3 and then followed the native procedure in 
> > the
> > documentation considering his changes.
> > I installed the toolkit for both python2 and python3.
> > But when I run sugar from the command line I got an import error 
> > "import six
> > "ImportError:No module named six"
> > I am not sure why I got this error, do the dependencies and libraries used 
> > by
> > python3 do not get installed when the toolkit for python 3 is built?
> > Please help.
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 1:49 PM James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > I've proposed a pull request to let the caller specify the Python
> > version, and a draft pull request documenting how to build for both
> > versions.
> > 
> > [2]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/pull/411
> > [3]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/829
> > 
> > Aniket, when you say v0.113 this means you are using either git tag
> > v0.113 (i.e. e30b73f) or tarball.  Seems unlikely you are doing that,
> > but instead you would be using HEAD of master branch instead.  Is my
> > guess right?
> > 
> > Regarding the segmentation fault, please check
> > .sugar/default/logs/shell.log for any details, or run within gdb and
> > capture a backtrace of all threads.
> > 
> > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 01:31:23PM +0530, ANIKET MATHUR wrote:
> > > Regards,
> > > I agree with, James. What I think is that since [1]this pr is not yet
> > merged
> > > into master, sugar requires python 2, 
> > > and the way I was installing Sugar builds the toolkit for Python 3. 
> > So I
> > first
> > > installed Sugar from sucrose and then installed the toolkit-gtk3 
> > v0.113
> > by
> > > hand.
> > > Doing this I am able to test ported activities through the command 
> > line
> > using
> > > Ubuntu 18.04 terminal, but opening Sugar home view causes 
> > "Segmentation
> > fault"
> > > with a warning "python2.7 has stopped unexpectedly". I am not yet 
> > able to
> > > figure out the reason for this.
> > >
> > > Regarding the Python version in [2][4]configure.ac, I think that the
> > caller should
> > > be allowed to specify the version or alternatively since we are 
> > porting
> > to six,
> > > a method building for both python2 and python3 would be great.
> > >
> > > I don't expect myself to be 100 percent right and expect to be 
> > corrected
> > > wherever required.
> > >
> > > Thanks a lot, everyone. ☺
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 3:17 AM James Cameron <[3][5]qu...@laptop.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >     G'day Aniket,
> > >
> > >     If you were using the native sugar build method, then you are 
> > using
> > >     HEAD, which contains all patches since 0.113.  Don't try to apply 
> > the
> > >     patch that Alex pointed out, as it is already applied.
> > >
> > >     The error message "ImportError: No module named sugar3" is caused 
> > by
> > >     not installing the Toolkit for Python 2.
> > >
> > >     Sugar 0.113 requires Python 2.
> > >
> > >     Toolkit by default installs for Python 3.
> > >
> > >     You can verify this is the situation by testing the import by hand
> > >     using different versions of Python;
> > >
> > >     python3 -c 'import sugar3'  # expect pass
> > >
> > >     python2 -c 'import sugar3'  # expect fail
> > >
> > >     You'll find in [4][6]configure.ac where the Python 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Toolkit Installation Sugar v0.113

[James Cameron]

It is a wicked problem.  Here are my thoughts;

1.  there are three temporal scopes of dependency; build time, run
time, and those for downloaded activities,

2.  our activity bundle specification doesn't list dependencies, so we
had early assumptions about what would be available,

3.  some of the dependencies are listed in old documentation on our
Wiki, such as;

https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.96/Platform_Components
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Platform_Stack
https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_System_Stack

4.  very few people need to know the dependencies, because most people
install the distribution packages, or install Fedora SoaS where all
the work is already done; this can be verified by seeing how
infrequently dependency related problems are reported; those that need
the dependencies in detail should have the knowledge and skill to
resolve them using tools,

5.  the Sugar and Toolkit dependencies have not changed much for a
long time, although the work you are doing will change that,

6.  package dependencies are tracked by the Fedora and Debian
developers who package Sugar, often using tools that detect object
libraries linked to executables, or static analysis of imports.  These
developers do the most toward maintaining a list of dependencies, and
it is stored in packaging metadata,

7.  package dependencies are not the same between our supported
distributions of Fedora and Debian, because of different standards in
naming packages,

8.  some of the package names are very strange and non-intuitive to
the outsider; e.g. the gir* packages, for the gi.repository imports,

9.  some of the apparent changes to dependencies occur because of
package name changes in Fedora and Debian, which are not our direct
concern and not in our control,

10.  some dependencies are in the platform components list only
because an activity once required them, but since then the activity is
broken, unmaintained, or the dependency removed after a port,

11.  dependencies of distribution packages are a subset of the
dependencies of the whole Sugar platform stack,

12.  packagers will often package a new release of Sugar and not
notice the new dependency, and not test, in which case Sugar will fail
to start, and some user has to notice and report a bug to the
distribution,

So I agree, I don't think mentioning them all in the documentation
will be a good idea; mainly because of how much work would be required
and how much benefit there would be from that work.

I welcome thoughts of others though, especially anybody who might want
to maintain the data.

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:13:41AM +0530, ANIKET MATHUR wrote:
> Thanks. James.
> Agreed, there can be a number of runtime dependencies that the user has to
> install. I don't think mentioning them all in the documentation
> will be a good idea. What do you think?
> 
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 9:31 AM James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for testing, Aniket.
> 
> Because 0.113 introduces a dependency on Six for the first time, the
> method of resolving dependencies in the instructions is out of date.
> 
> I've added
> [2]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/829/commits/
> 97d1ef60b65a0fffe52ec4070944e2b03fe56ac2
> to the pull request.
> 
> Yes, you are correct that dependencies are not added during build,
> this is something you may have to do yourself.
> 
> For instance, after you've built Sugar, there are a set of run-time
> dependencies to install.  I'm working on refining the instructions
> some more.  Let me know how you go.
> 
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 09:23:08AM +0530, ANIKET MATHUR wrote:
> > hey,
> > I tested the changes that James made.
> > I started with a fresh Ubuntu 18.04 VM. Cloned artwork, datastore,
> > toolkit-gtk3, and sugar.
> > Applied his patch to toolkit-gtk3 and then followed the native procedure
> in the
> > documentation considering his changes.
> > I installed the toolkit for both python2 and python3.
> > But when I run sugar from the command line I got an import error 
> > "import six
> > "ImportError:No module named six"
> > I am not sure why I got this error, do the dependencies and libraries
> used by
> > python3 do not get installed when the toolkit for python 3 is built?
> > Please help.
> > Thanks!
> >
> > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 1:49 PM James Cameron <[1][3]qu...@laptop.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >     Thanks!
> >
> >     I've proposed a pull request to let the caller specify the Python
> >     version, and a draft pull request documenting how to build for both
> >     versions.
> >
> >     [2][4]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/pull/411
> >     [3][5]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/pull/829
> >
> >     Aniket, when you say v0.113 this means you are using either git tag
> >     v0.113 (i.e. e30b73f) or tarball.  Seems unlikely