Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar Trisquel image Ready for testing.
The 64bit seems to be just amd64. -- Ibiam Chihurumnaya ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 8:38 PM Martin Guy wrote: > Excellent! Only amd64? :) > >M > > On 29/10/2020, Chihurumnaya Ibiam wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > The sugar trisquel image has been released > > < > https://trisquel.info/en/trisquel-90-etiona-release-announcement-and-100-plans > > > > by Ruben and it needs to be tested. > > > > He'd said this earlier; > > > > It took me a while to find a gap to work on the project, but I > > got go a good point this week: > > > https://trisquel.info/en/trisquel-90-etiona-release-announcement-and-100-plans > > > > That includes the "Trisquel On a Sugar Toast" v9 release, which comes > > with Sugar 117 and further commits up to this weekend. I also packaged a > > list of activities and included them in the image. I could only give it > > basic testing (it took a lot of work to remove integration bugs and > > dependencies), so I just know that they all run, but I don't know if > > they work properly. I also found a bug in the panel, when you click on > > the icons on the bottom right the ones to the left of the one clicked > > disappear (I didn't consider it a release-blocker). > > > > Please give this image a test: > > > https://cdimage.trisquel.info/trisquel-images/trisquel-sugar_9.0_amd64.iso > > > > After testing we may need to produce another image. This also depends on > > whether we want to change the list of included activities, or add any > > other features to the image. > > > > Cheers, > > Ruben > > PS: the included activities are: > > > > abacus > > analyzejournal > > browse > > calculate > > chat > > clock > > deducto > > develop > > flip > > flipsticks > > fractionbounce > > gcompris > > iknowmyabcs > > imageviewer > > implode > > iq > > irc > > jukebox > > jumble > > lettermatch > > locosugar > > log > > maze > > memorize > > moon > > musickeyboard > > napier > > nutrition > > paint > > periodictable > > pippy > > poll > > portfolio > > pukllanapac > > read > > recall > > record > > reflection > > simplegnuchess > > speak > > stopwatch > > story > > terminal > > turtleblocks > > typingturtle > > wordcloud > > words > > write > > > > -- > > > > Ibiam Chihurumnaya > > ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com > > > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Ubuntu 20.10 test report
Thanks, merged. On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 10:33:38AM +, shaansubbaiah.c...@bmsce.ac.in wrote: > > Had some time, created a PR for the demo animation for logging in > ([1]https:/ > /github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/pull/202) > > Something I had not noticed earlier was that the Ubuntu universe repositories > are not enabled by default when running Ubuntu Live but are enabled by default > after installing the ISO. > > On Wed, 28 Oct, 2020, 5:02 am James Cameron, <[2]qu...@laptop.org> wrote: > > The new gdm3 "one eyed frowning blob monster" is a bit frightening. > Very suitable for a pandemic. ;-) > > [3]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/images/ > gdm3-ubuntu-20.10.png > > Anyone willing to make a demonstration animation to go in our gallery? > > [4]https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/ > sugar-logging-in.md > > -- > James Cameron > [5]http://quozl.netrek.org/ > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > [6]Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > [7]http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > References: > > [1] https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/pull/202 > [2] mailto:qu...@laptop.org > [3] > https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/images/gdm3-ubuntu-20.10.png > [4] > https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/sugar-logging-in.md > [5] http://quozl.netrek.org/ > [6] mailto:Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > [7] http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- James Cameron http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] State of Sugar?
Hi Charlie, have you looked at Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/)? I've supported two or three open source developers via it over the years and am finding it a low-friction way to do that via exactly the kind of monthly subscriptions/donations that you mention. Cheers, Christoph On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 9:25 PM C. Cossé wrote: > Hello all, > > I would like to mention that there are probably other people, besides > myself, who would love to develop their ideas for education software, if > only there were some way to get paid. I used to make free education > software back when I had kids and could afford the time. I personally > still have a list of un-implemented ideas for education software which I'd > love to work on, but the factor that makes it possible is missing, ie > money. It wouldn't necessarily be too difficult to modify the Sugar (and > Sugarizer) eco-systems to promote compensation of developers. For example: > someone likes a project and wants to encourage further development by > "putting $500 on it". Or, since that might not happen very often, then > convert into a "subscription" system in which subscription fees are used to > compensate developers, perhaps allowing the subscriber choose which > projects to support. If there are people who want to develop and other > people who want to support such work, then it could be successful. > > Just sayin' :) > > -Charlie Cosse > > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 3:47 AM Christoph Derndorfer-Medosch < > christoph.derndor...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> a quick thought experiment from another old-timer and long-term lurker >> here: >> >> James, I think one might also turn your assessment on its head: >> >> "The *low number of contributors* to Sugar Labs, Sugar, Sugarizer, >> and Music Blocks is *due to the focus that we have, and it's unclear*. The >> relatively *small amount of continued contributions* alone will *not >> have any real effect on that*. >> >> Sugar Labs contributors *will arrive and thrive* if there is a *clear >> Sugar Labs focus*." >> >> Just my 2 euro cents, >> Christoph >> >> On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 8:53 AM James Cameron wrote: >> >>> I disagree that the focus has shifted or that it should be shifted >>> back to what it was. The state of Sugar Labs, Sugar, Sugarizer, and >>> Music Blocks is due to the contributors we have, and they are too few. >>> No amount of refocusing will have any real effect on that. >>> >>> Sugar Labs will thrive if there are contributors. >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 11:40:58PM +0100, Bastien wrote: >>> > Thanks James. >>> > >>> > So Sugar is maintained by a handful of people but it is not actively >>> > developed anymore. Sugar Labs puts some efforts in maintaining it but >>> > does not really know who is still using it. Sugar Labs also hosts the >>> > Sugarizer project, which is well alive and reaching children at least >>> > in France. >>> > >>> > I hope this does sound approximatively correct. >>> > >>> > Sugar Labs was all about provoking a change in the way we experience >>> > education (learning and teaching) through the development of Sugar, as >>> > a flagship for such a change. This flagship was designed around a few >>> > core principles and powerful ideas that are still alive and relevant >>> > today: namely focus, reflection and collaboration. >>> > >>> > I think we all agree these core principles will survive the software. >>> > >>> > What if Sugar Labs focus was not to promote Sugar (which is dying) but >>> > to help build a network of contributors around these core principles? >>> > >>> > What if we insist on the "Labs" more than on the "Sugar"? >>> > >>> > The Free Software Foundation is saying over and over that children >>> > should use free software. But building free educational software is >>> > something very few people are interested in doing seriously, and the >>> > ones willing to do it by following the aforementioned core principles >>> > may not want to rely on Sugar or Sugarizer. >>> > >>> > How to help these people? >>> > >>> > You know my love for this project and my commitment to helping OLPC >>> > back in the times, Sugar Labs community and Sugarizer today. But I >>> > don't feel the pulse of the Sugar community anymore, and I think that >>> > may be because the focus is back on the software, rather than on the >>> > core principles and the people themselves. >>> > >>> > Stated otherwise: if Alan K., Seymour P., Cynthia S. and Walter were >>> > back again in the same room to discuss the future of education, what >>> > would they propose? Could Sugar Labs host these new ideas? >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Bastien >>> > ___ >>> > Sugar-devel mailing list >>> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >>> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >>> -- >>> James Cameron >>> http://quozl.netrek.org/ >>> ___ >>> Sugar-devel mailing list >>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
Re: [Sugar-devel] State of Sugar?
Hello all, I would like to mention that there are probably other people, besides myself, who would love to develop their ideas for education software, if only there were some way to get paid. I used to make free education software back when I had kids and could afford the time. I personally still have a list of un-implemented ideas for education software which I'd love to work on, but the factor that makes it possible is missing, ie money. It wouldn't necessarily be too difficult to modify the Sugar (and Sugarizer) eco-systems to promote compensation of developers. For example: someone likes a project and wants to encourage further development by "putting $500 on it". Or, since that might not happen very often, then convert into a "subscription" system in which subscription fees are used to compensate developers, perhaps allowing the subscriber choose which projects to support. If there are people who want to develop and other people who want to support such work, then it could be successful. Just sayin' :) -Charlie Cosse On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 3:47 AM Christoph Derndorfer-Medosch < christoph.derndor...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi all, > > a quick thought experiment from another old-timer and long-term lurker > here: > > James, I think one might also turn your assessment on its head: > > "The *low number of contributors* to Sugar Labs, Sugar, Sugarizer, > and Music Blocks is *due to the focus that we have, and it's unclear*. The > relatively *small amount of continued contributions* alone will *not have > any real effect on that*. > > Sugar Labs contributors *will arrive and thrive* if there is a *clear > Sugar Labs focus*." > > Just my 2 euro cents, > Christoph > > On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 8:53 AM James Cameron wrote: > >> I disagree that the focus has shifted or that it should be shifted >> back to what it was. The state of Sugar Labs, Sugar, Sugarizer, and >> Music Blocks is due to the contributors we have, and they are too few. >> No amount of refocusing will have any real effect on that. >> >> Sugar Labs will thrive if there are contributors. >> >> On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 11:40:58PM +0100, Bastien wrote: >> > Thanks James. >> > >> > So Sugar is maintained by a handful of people but it is not actively >> > developed anymore. Sugar Labs puts some efforts in maintaining it but >> > does not really know who is still using it. Sugar Labs also hosts the >> > Sugarizer project, which is well alive and reaching children at least >> > in France. >> > >> > I hope this does sound approximatively correct. >> > >> > Sugar Labs was all about provoking a change in the way we experience >> > education (learning and teaching) through the development of Sugar, as >> > a flagship for such a change. This flagship was designed around a few >> > core principles and powerful ideas that are still alive and relevant >> > today: namely focus, reflection and collaboration. >> > >> > I think we all agree these core principles will survive the software. >> > >> > What if Sugar Labs focus was not to promote Sugar (which is dying) but >> > to help build a network of contributors around these core principles? >> > >> > What if we insist on the "Labs" more than on the "Sugar"? >> > >> > The Free Software Foundation is saying over and over that children >> > should use free software. But building free educational software is >> > something very few people are interested in doing seriously, and the >> > ones willing to do it by following the aforementioned core principles >> > may not want to rely on Sugar or Sugarizer. >> > >> > How to help these people? >> > >> > You know my love for this project and my commitment to helping OLPC >> > back in the times, Sugar Labs community and Sugarizer today. But I >> > don't feel the pulse of the Sugar community anymore, and I think that >> > may be because the focus is back on the software, rather than on the >> > core principles and the people themselves. >> > >> > Stated otherwise: if Alan K., Seymour P., Cynthia S. and Walter were >> > back again in the same room to discuss the future of education, what >> > would they propose? Could Sugar Labs host these new ideas? >> > >> > -- >> > Bastien >> > ___ >> > Sugar-devel mailing list >> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> >> -- >> James Cameron >> http://quozl.netrek.org/ >> ___ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > > > -- > Christoph Derndorfer > > volunteer, OLPC (Austria) / co-founder, TechnikBasteln® [ > www.technikbasteln.net] > > e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- ccosse.github.io ___ Sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] State of Sugar?
On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 4:57 AM Bastien wrote: > > Dear all, > > I hope you're all doing well, in every corner of the world. Nice to hear from you. It has been much too long. Hope you are well. > > After participating to a survey called "State of Emacs", and thinking > about the various "State of X" that you can find in the software world > (State of Clojure, State of the Octoverse, etc.), I was wondering if > you would find it useful to launch a "State of Sugar". I am still an Emacs user. Would be completely lost without it. > > The survey would target users and contributors and the results could > help the community better know itself -- and the casual reader better > understand how Sugar works in general. > > I find myself in this position of "casual reader" about Sugar today, > and I have a few naive questions for which I don't have answers when > browsing the website and the docs: I think that for the most part James has already answered these questions, so I will jump right into my personal reflections below. > > - Is Sugar still actively *developed* or just maintained? > > - If the former, is there a roadmap somewhere? > > - Does Sugar have a "maintainer" or a group of maintainers? > > - Who gets paid for doing what in the Sugar community? > > - How large is the Sugar contributors community? > > - What are the interaction between Sugar Labs and Sugarizer? > > - Is the Sugar Labs community still supporting OLPC deployments? > > - Is the Sugar Labs community supporting new "deployments" in new > countries? > > ... > > That's what comes on the top of my head right now. > > Maybe I'll get some answers for these questions by just asking them on > this list, but a State of Sugar could answer other questions of course. > > Thanks, > > -- > Bastien > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel I remain passionate about Sugar, but we missed some important opportunities over the years that would have led to mass adoption rather than niche use. For example, being forestalled in working with Nokia -- they were trying to position us as an alternative to Android. In large part OLPC kept Sugar Labs at arms length from their deployments -- hence we had very little direct contact with our end users -- with some exceptions, e.g., Paraguay Educa -- which is still active. Our involvement has been maintenance, which I think confirms the analysis of James. (I remain convinced that Sugar would be a great environment for the platforms like RPi, especially if we develop/support some activities that more directly support the Maker community.) That said, even though it is a bit long in tooth, I think Sugar is still an important expression of many ideas that have yet to find their way into the mainstream and can and should be used as a way to promote these ideas -- whether or not they are ultimately realized in Sugar deployments. The Journal/portfolio, the collaboration model, our approach to FOSS -- providing scaffolding to exercise one's freedoms, and more. And some of the Sugar activities are still quite viable and are seeing a new life -- either rewritten for Sugarizer or repackaged in Flatpak, where they are then available on any GNU/Linux desktop. Several topics James did not mention: The bulk of my personal contributions over the past 5-6 years have been to Music Blocks, one of the most active Sugar Labs repos. I focus there in part because I wanted to have my efforts reach a wider audience -- anyone with access to a browser can use it. (Like Sugaroizer, it is also available in the Google Play Store, and in Flatpak. Ironically, it does not work inside Sugar itself at the moment.) But there are several other reasons. Since "you cannot think about thinking without thinking about thinking about something", I wanted to work on a "microworld" that was about something and I had long wanted to scratch a particular itch: music. I seized the opportunity when I met Devin Ullibari and it has been a vehicle for lots of personal learning. As a stand-alone activity Music Blocks is getting a lot of traction -- including wide-spread adoption in Japan and Peru. And we have 100+ contributors -- new ones popping up all the time. But Devin and I also have another agenda. We think that Music Blocks could provide a vehicle for musicians to expand their repertoires into programming and hence expand their job prospects -- most musicians moonlight and why not moonlight teaching music through the lens of computation? We've also been developing a body of collateral material in support of this goal -- largely in the form of lesson plans. Finally, I still think of Sugar Labs as a place where people can come to learn. We've been very active in programs such as Google Summer of Code and Google Code-in (alas no more). And while some of the participants have stuck around, almost all of them have learned something along the
Re: [Sugar-devel] State of Sugar?
Hi all, a quick thought experiment from another old-timer and long-term lurker here: James, I think one might also turn your assessment on its head: "The *low number of contributors* to Sugar Labs, Sugar, Sugarizer, and Music Blocks is *due to the focus that we have, and it's unclear*. The relatively *small amount of continued contributions* alone will *not have any real effect on that*. Sugar Labs contributors *will arrive and thrive* if there is a *clear Sugar Labs focus*." Just my 2 euro cents, Christoph On Fri, Oct 30, 2020 at 8:53 AM James Cameron wrote: > I disagree that the focus has shifted or that it should be shifted > back to what it was. The state of Sugar Labs, Sugar, Sugarizer, and > Music Blocks is due to the contributors we have, and they are too few. > No amount of refocusing will have any real effect on that. > > Sugar Labs will thrive if there are contributors. > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 11:40:58PM +0100, Bastien wrote: > > Thanks James. > > > > So Sugar is maintained by a handful of people but it is not actively > > developed anymore. Sugar Labs puts some efforts in maintaining it but > > does not really know who is still using it. Sugar Labs also hosts the > > Sugarizer project, which is well alive and reaching children at least > > in France. > > > > I hope this does sound approximatively correct. > > > > Sugar Labs was all about provoking a change in the way we experience > > education (learning and teaching) through the development of Sugar, as > > a flagship for such a change. This flagship was designed around a few > > core principles and powerful ideas that are still alive and relevant > > today: namely focus, reflection and collaboration. > > > > I think we all agree these core principles will survive the software. > > > > What if Sugar Labs focus was not to promote Sugar (which is dying) but > > to help build a network of contributors around these core principles? > > > > What if we insist on the "Labs" more than on the "Sugar"? > > > > The Free Software Foundation is saying over and over that children > > should use free software. But building free educational software is > > something very few people are interested in doing seriously, and the > > ones willing to do it by following the aforementioned core principles > > may not want to rely on Sugar or Sugarizer. > > > > How to help these people? > > > > You know my love for this project and my commitment to helping OLPC > > back in the times, Sugar Labs community and Sugarizer today. But I > > don't feel the pulse of the Sugar community anymore, and I think that > > may be because the focus is back on the software, rather than on the > > core principles and the people themselves. > > > > Stated otherwise: if Alan K., Seymour P., Cynthia S. and Walter were > > back again in the same room to discuss the future of education, what > > would they propose? Could Sugar Labs host these new ideas? > > > > -- > > Bastien > > ___ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.netrek.org/ > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Christoph Derndorfer volunteer, OLPC (Austria) / co-founder, TechnikBasteln® [ www.technikbasteln.net] e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Ubuntu 20.10 test report
Had some time, created a PR for the demo animation for logging in (https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/pull/202) Something I had not noticed earlier was that the Ubuntu universe repositories are not enabled by default when running Ubuntu Live but are enabled by default after installing the ISO. On Wed, 28 Oct, 2020, 5:02 am James Cameron, wrote: The new gdm3 "one eyed frowning blob monster" is a bit frightening. Very suitable for a pandemic. ;-) https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/images/gdm3-ubuntu-20.10.png Anyone willing to make a demonstration animation to go in our gallery? https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar-docs/blob/master/src/sugar-logging-in.md -- James Cameron http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] State of Sugar?
I disagree that the focus has shifted or that it should be shifted back to what it was. The state of Sugar Labs, Sugar, Sugarizer, and Music Blocks is due to the contributors we have, and they are too few. No amount of refocusing will have any real effect on that. Sugar Labs will thrive if there are contributors. On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 11:40:58PM +0100, Bastien wrote: > Thanks James. > > So Sugar is maintained by a handful of people but it is not actively > developed anymore. Sugar Labs puts some efforts in maintaining it but > does not really know who is still using it. Sugar Labs also hosts the > Sugarizer project, which is well alive and reaching children at least > in France. > > I hope this does sound approximatively correct. > > Sugar Labs was all about provoking a change in the way we experience > education (learning and teaching) through the development of Sugar, as > a flagship for such a change. This flagship was designed around a few > core principles and powerful ideas that are still alive and relevant > today: namely focus, reflection and collaboration. > > I think we all agree these core principles will survive the software. > > What if Sugar Labs focus was not to promote Sugar (which is dying) but > to help build a network of contributors around these core principles? > > What if we insist on the "Labs" more than on the "Sugar"? > > The Free Software Foundation is saying over and over that children > should use free software. But building free educational software is > something very few people are interested in doing seriously, and the > ones willing to do it by following the aforementioned core principles > may not want to rely on Sugar or Sugarizer. > > How to help these people? > > You know my love for this project and my commitment to helping OLPC > back in the times, Sugar Labs community and Sugarizer today. But I > don't feel the pulse of the Sugar community anymore, and I think that > may be because the focus is back on the software, rather than on the > core principles and the people themselves. > > Stated otherwise: if Alan K., Seymour P., Cynthia S. and Walter were > back again in the same room to discuss the future of education, what > would they propose? Could Sugar Labs host these new ideas? > > -- > Bastien > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- James Cameron http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
