Re: [Sugar-devel] Greetings from Sugar Labs DC!
Hi James,
We'll run through this at our meetup next Thursday evening and let you
know how it goes. Thanks!
Jeff
Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 2:32 PM James Cameron wrote:
>
> Hello Christian,
>
> Please install Raspbian Buster, then;
>
> - add to /etc/apt/sources.list file this line;
>
> deb [arch=armhf trusted=yes] http://people.sugarlabs.org/~quozl/rb buster main
>
> - run "sudo apt update",
>
> - run "sudo apt install sucrose",
>
> - run "sudo apt install
> sugar-{abacus,browse,calculate,chart,chat,clock,develop,finance,findwords,fototoon,fractionbounce,gears,imageviewer,implode,jukebox,letters,log,maze,measure,memorize,moon,music-keyboard,paint,physics,pippy,poll,portfolio,read,record,speak,stopwatch,story,terminal,words,write}-activity"
>
> - choose Sugar for restart by adding a file
>
> echo sugar > .xsession
>
> - restart the Raspberry pi.
>
> I've not tested in full, but in theory this will get you a working
> Raspberry Pi with Sugar using Raspbian Buster.
>
> The Debian image builder isn't working at the moment, and doesn't have
> a maintainer, but if someone does work on it the above package archive
> will help them finish the job.
>
> On Thu, Mar 05, 2020 at 06:42:43PM -0500, Christian Faris wrote:
> > Dear Sugar Labs Devel Community,
> >
> > My name is Christian “Chip” Faris and I am active with Sugar Labs DC. I am a
> > former student of Jeff Elkner and have good connections with Kevin Cole. I
> > am
> > helping out a student who has a capstone project of helping Sugar Labs DC to
> > use Sugar on Debian Buster. The GitHub for installing Sugar on Debian Buster
> > has not updated in quite sometime. Since most of the hardware we have
> > (mainly
> > raspberry pi 3B+ and 4) run Debian Buster, I wonder if there is a way to
> > install Sugar on Debian Buster as this will be a huge help with labs and
> > events
> > for our elementary and early childhood education students.
> >
> > Thank you for reading and any help is greatly appreciated!
> >
> > Sincerely yours,
> >
> > Christian “Chip” Faris
> >
> > [1]christian.lee.fa...@gmail.com
> >
> > [2]https://cfaris459.github.io/
> >
> > References:
> >
> > [1] mailto:christian.lee.fa...@gmail.com
> > [2] https://cfaris459.github.io/
>
> > ___
> > Sugar-devel mailing list
> > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
___
Sugar-devel mailing list
Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Greetings from Sugar Labs DC!
Hi Alex and James, Could you please point us toward the current sugar packages for Debian Buster? We don't have anyone with the skills at this point to maintain Debian packages, but we can at least test the current packages, contribute to filing bug reports and writing documentation. We are most interested in using sugar on the raspberry pi. Any help you could provide to get us started would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Jeff Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world! On Thu, Mar 5, 2020 at 7:06 PM Christian Faris wrote: > > Alex, > > I was not at PyCon last year. I would like to get in contact with James and > see the packages. > > Thank you, > > Christian "Chip" Faris > > > > > On 3/5/20 6:58 PM, Alex Perez wrote: > > Christian, > > Welcome. If you happened to be with Jeff when he and a group of his students > were at PyCon last year, we may have met then. I believe James Cameron has > some current Sugar packages for Debian he may be able/willing to share with > you. We are actually in need of someone to take over packaging of the Sugar > packages in Debian. Is that something you might be interested in helping us > with? > > Regards, > Alex Perez > > Christian Faris March 5, 2020 at 3:42 PM > > Dear Sugar Labs Devel Community, > > > My name is Christian “Chip” Faris and I am active with Sugar Labs DC. I am a > former student of Jeff Elkner and have good connections with Kevin Cole. I am > helping out a student who has a capstone project of helping Sugar Labs DC to > use Sugar on Debian Buster. The GitHub for installing Sugar on Debian Buster > has not updated in quite sometime. Since most of the hardware we have (mainly > raspberry pi 3B+ and 4) run Debian Buster, I wonder if there is a way to > install Sugar on Debian Buster as this will be a huge help with labs and > events for our elementary and early childhood education students. > > > Thank you for reading and any help is greatly appreciated! > > Sincerely yours, > > > Christian “Chip” Faris > > > christian.lee.fa...@gmail.com > > > https://cfaris459.github.io/ > > > > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?
Thanks, Walter. It wasn't that I ever really left the fold (at least not in spirit), it was just that I wasn't teaching much programming for the last several years. That is changing in a big way now. My school is now offering high school students a dual-enrolled (high school and community college credits at the same time) Associates degree in CS concurrent with their high school diploma. With Virginia's fairly new K-12 mandatory CS standards, combined with the effective victory of Python in the "Which programming language should we use in our high school programming classes?" battle, I'm now in a good place to resume work developing an educational program that uses Python. Sugar, naturally, is a great fit for that. Cheers, Jeff Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world! On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 7:09 PM Walter Bender wrote: > > > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 2:58 PM James Cameron wrote: >> >> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:00:07AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote: >> > Thanks for the quick responses, Chihurumnaya and James! Yes, >> > pressing F3 did the trick. >> >> Yay! >> >> > I should have remembered that from my OLPC days, but it has been so >> > long since I've used Sugar. Incidentally, I had forgotten that I >> > lent my last two XO4's to a former student so that he could >> > experiment with mesh networking. He is finished with them and is >> > returning them to me. A quick look at: >> > >> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0 >> > >> > reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running >> > Ubuntu 18.04, >> >> No, it's not for your XOs. >> >> > but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the >> > Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess? >> >> No, I fixed it. >> >> > James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian >> > has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is >> > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)." On the contrary, the >> > website instructions for creating your own microSD card are super >> > easy using etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/). When you first >> > boot from the resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that >> > expands the file system to fill the card, so the steps are really >> > just: >> > >> > 1. Install Etcher. >> > 2. Download the Raspian image file. >> > 3. Write it to the microSD card. >> > 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions. >> > 5. Enjoy your new operating system! >> > >> > That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it >> > is cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, >> > and works like a charm. >> >> You most likely have more skills than the people I've trained in this >> recipe. We must think of the people who are prevented by disadvantage >> from gaining these skills. >> >> But my question was answered, thanks. I now know what level of skill >> you are aiming for, and that means we can collaborate further. >> >> It's a how long is a piece of string argument. >> >> Given that level of skill, a *truly* beginner friendly installation >> recipe that you have as a goal should be (a) install Raspbian, (b) >> install Sugar. >> >> Step (a) is already well documented by the Raspberry Pi Foundation, >> and many Raspberry Pi are purchased with preloaded Raspbian. >> >> Step (b) recipe is here; >> https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/debian.md >> >> It works now for Debian Stretch, and when Debian Buster is released it >> should be the same. >> >> Step (b) could be improved by writing a script to do the install, and >> fix any of the bugs that haven't been fixed in the Debian packages. >> Or the bugs might be reported to Debian instead. I prefer the latter, >> because the rising tide lifts all boats. >> >> If you begin to do this, you'll probably be the first person doing it >> for years. Thank you! >> >> > Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently >> > reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I >> > was able to get to the main activity window and see the four >> > activities. Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not. >> >> Also test the hidden activities. You can see these with F3 Ctrl-2. >> >> > I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that >> > you see the proper welco
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?
Should I file an issue to add libgli2.0-dev as a dependency to the sugar-browse-activity package? If so, where? On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:15 PM Jeff Elkner wrote: > > It did! ;-) > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:09 PM Alex Perez wrote: > > > > There are two errors in this log file: > > > > sh: 1: glib-compile-schemas: not found > > and > > gi.repository.GLib.Error: g-file-error-quark: Failed to open file > > “/home/jelkner/.sugar/default/org.laptop.WebActivity/data/schemas/gschemas.compiled”: > > open() failed: No such file or directory (4) > > > > > > Try sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-dev and see if it sorts this out, > > although I'm not sure it will. > > > > > > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/17/19 9:01 AM: > > > > > > When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the > > activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message, > > can you show us the activity log, it can be found in > > `/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`. > > > > ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?
I've attached the file. ~ Jeff On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:41 AM Chihurumnaya Ibiam wrote: > > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:00 PM Jeff Elkner wrote: >> >> Thanks for the quick responses, Chihurumnaya and James! Yes, >> pressing F3 did the trick. I should have remembered that from my OLPC >> days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar. Incidentally, I >> had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so >> that he could experiment with mesh networking. He is finished with >> them and is returning them to me. A quick look at: >> >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0 >> >> reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running >> Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the >> Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess? >> >> James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian >> has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is >> purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)." On the contrary, the website >> instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using >> etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/). When you first boot from the >> resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the >> file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just: >> >> 1. Install Etcher. >> 2. Download the Raspian image file. >> 3. Write it to the microSD card. >> 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions. >> 5. Enjoy your new operating system! >> >> That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is >> cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and >> works like a charm. >> >> Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently >> reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was >> able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities. >> Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not. > > > When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the > activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message, > can you show us the activity log, it can be found in > `/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`. >> >> >> I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you >> see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar. I'm not going to >> try to push things onto Debian stretch. Buster is looking like it >> will become the stable distro sometime this Summer. After that >> settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for >> buster. Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during >> June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next >> September in any case. >> >> Thanks! >> Jeff > > > Thanks. > > > -- > > Ibiam Chihurumnaya > ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com > >> >> >> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron wrote: >> > >> > I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view. Use the F3 >> > key, as I said. See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch >> > between views. >> > >> > Yes, what you are doing is useful. For your assumed goal of *truly* >> > begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements >> > for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about. >> > >> > Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is >> > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS). I've guided adults and >> > children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very >> > difficult and way outside the usual skills people have. >> > >> > I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and >> > Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the >> > Journal appearing first. I've also removed the now unavailable >> > packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues >> > to work fine. While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in >> > 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and >> > if you want that you're better off making your own packages or >> > reporting bugs to Debian. >> > >> > Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages >> > from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository. >> > >> > http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/ >> > >> >
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?
Thanks for the quick responses, Chihurumnaya and James! Yes, pressing F3 did the trick. I should have remembered that from my OLPC days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar. Incidentally, I had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so that he could experiment with mesh networking. He is finished with them and is returning them to me. A quick look at: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0 reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess? James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)." On the contrary, the website instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/). When you first boot from the resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just: 1. Install Etcher. 2. Download the Raspian image file. 3. Write it to the microSD card. 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions. 5. Enjoy your new operating system! That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and works like a charm. Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities. Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not. I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar. I'm not going to try to push things onto Debian stretch. Buster is looking like it will become the stable distro sometime this Summer. After that settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for buster. Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next September in any case. Thanks! Jeff On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron wrote: > > I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view. Use the F3 > key, as I said. See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch > between views. > > Yes, what you are doing is useful. For your assumed goal of *truly* > begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements > for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about. > > Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS). I've guided adults and > children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very > difficult and way outside the usual skills people have. > > I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and > Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the > Journal appearing first. I've also removed the now unavailable > packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues > to work fine. While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in > 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and > if you want that you're better off making your own packages or > reporting bugs to Debian. > > Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages > from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository. > > http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/ > > When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use > https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote: > > OK, progress. Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities > > are not showing (see screenshot). In the instant that the Desktop > > displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4 > > activities. > > > > I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the > > community, and that we are on the same page. Here are my assumed > > goals: > > > > 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as > > a wonderful side effect) as the target platform. > > 2. A *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a > > working Sugar desktop on Raspbian. > > > > Once we have that available, I could begin to promote Sugar as a > > learning platform within my school district, developing OER > > educational curricula for it. > > > > I feel like we have a timely opportunity. Python has won the day, and > > after years (I started using Python in 1999) of being somewhat of a > > pariah within my
Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?
OK, progress. Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities are not showing (see screenshot). In the instant that the Desktop displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4 activities. I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the community, and that we are on the same page. Here are my assumed goals: 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as a wonderful side effect) as the target platform. 2. A *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a working Sugar desktop on Raspbian. Once we have that available, I could begin to promote Sugar as a learning platform within my school district, developing OER educational curricula for it. I feel like we have a timely opportunity. Python has won the day, and after years (I started using Python in 1999) of being somewhat of a pariah within my school system for my insistence on teaching with it, I now actually look prescient and am sought after for advice. So if we can get a working system together, I think I could round up both students and staff to contribute, helping to grow the Sugar community. Cheers, Jeff Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world! On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM James Cameron wrote: > > It's a problem with Metacity, which is ignoring the Journal's request > to be iconified. > > Press the F3 key. > > Or press the F6 key then click on the home view icon. > > Or put the mouse on the edge (difficult in a typical VM). > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:08:26AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote: > > Hi James and Alex, > > > > I've setup a VM with Sid and ran: > > > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm > > > > which gave me the same problem I had on testing - I only see the > > journal and can't find the main Sugar desktop window (note: I did see > > it flash briefly on the screen before it disappeared). > > > > I've attached two package_list files that come from running: > > > > $ dpkg -l | grep sugar > package_llst.txt > > > > and > > > > $ dpkg -l | grep sucrose > package_llst2.txt > > > > Please let me know what I should do next. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Jeff > > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world! > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:48 AM James Cameron wrote: > > > > > > python-sugar3_0.112-3 has migrated to testing just now. > > > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:56:03AM -0700, Alex Perez wrote: > > > > Jeff, > > > > > > > > Most, if not all, of the Sugar-specific bugs that are present in Debian > > > > should be fixed if you use the "0.112-3" (the 3 is critically important) > > > > Debian packages from the _unstable_ Debian repo. They have not yet been > > > > promoted to testing, and will likely not be included in Debian 10 when > > > > it is > > > > released, as it is late in the package freeze process. > > > > > > > > So, you have a few options here...the easiest thing to do would be to > > > > run an > > > > entire "unstable" install of Debian, since you will get these packages > > > > by > > > > default, but otherwise, you have to configure Apt with the unstable > > > > repo, > > > > and then use package pinning. This is documented at > > > > https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian. > > > > > > > > See https://packages.debian.org/buster/sucrose for a list of these > > > > packages, > > > > and https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#Installation can explain how > > > > to > > > > enable the unstable apt repo on a stable or testing install. > > > > > > > > This may also be of use > > > > https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/15/19 9:54 AM: > > > > > Great to meet you (virtually), Alex and James. I'm a high school / > > > > > community college teacher in Arlington, Virginia who was an early > > > > > member of the OLPC community here in the DC area. I run Debian in my > > > > > classroom and would very much be interested in using the Sugar desktop > > > > > to work on that platform. It doesn't currently seem to work. I don't > > > > > have the capacity to fix it myself, but I can provide reliable testing > > > > > and fe
Re: [Sugar-devel] Google Summer of Code project ideas
Wow, the list of proposals pretty well covers the things I'd like to see happen as a classroom teacher! I will be waiting with anticipation for the Summer work to begin. In order to contribute, I have a student this Summer who will be completing his community college career studies certificate with a course in Django application development. I've already talked to him about making something like a Turtle Blocks social networking site his Summer project. I see that is already one of the projects on the list. I'll be looking for help plugging him into this project as the Summer approaches. jeff elkner On Tue, Mar 26, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: We have been accumulating project ideas for Google Summer of Code 2013 [1]. Please take a few minutes to add a favorite project or sign on as a co-mentor to an existing project. Also, feel free to help us refine the descriptions on the pages. (I've added a bit of text to the end of each project, describing how it benefits both Sugar and the student working on the project. These blurbs need some refining. The deadline is the 29th of this month, so please act in the next day or two. -walter [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2013 -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Google Summer of Code (GSOC) important
Any chance you could send us a direct link to the mentor registration form? I went looking for it, but quickly got lost in the wealth of documentation there. Thanks! jeff elkner On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: First, thanks to everyone who has proposed a project on our GSOC page for 2012 [1]. We are still open to more ideas. (Note that adding a project is not a binding commitment -- just a way to express your interest.) We are still looking for co-mentors for most of the projects. Please add your name if you think you could help with the mentoring of any of the projects. (Note: there is no limit to how many mentors we can have.) *IMPORTANT* All mentors must register on the GSOC website [2] before March 16. It just takes a minute, but it is required for our application to be considered complete. Our organization id is sugarlabs Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. regards. -walter -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Summer_of_Code/2012 [2] http://google-melange.appspot.com/gsoc/homepage/google/gsoc2012 -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Why #sugar should be logged - a plug for transparency and ease of use.
I'm really not interested in beating a dead horse, Sacha, so after making my case I'm more than happy to drop this (though I will continue not to use #sugar for any discussions I would want to save if it is not logged). The reason that I find auto logging saves me work is the same reason I'm now completely in love with Google docs. Call it attention deficit disorder or whatever, but I have 4 different computers on which I normally work, plus I work on other people's computers when I travel. Having stuff in the cloud is simply easier for me. I don't have to think about it. It is just there when I need it. I won't have the logs around like you do. I will forget to store them, forget what I called them when I do store them, or have deleted them in an attempt to reduce the amount of data I'm storing locally, etc. Auto logging in no way prevents you from keeping your own, but it doesn't require me to. jeff On Wed, Jan 13, 2010 at 4:44 AM, Sascha Silbe sascha-ml-ui-sugar-i...@silbe.org wrote: On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 09:25:22PM -0500, Jeff Elkner wrote: I'm glad logging locally works for you, Dave, but it doesn't work for me. I really need less things to do, not more ;-) How is logging locally causing more work for you? Do you use an IRC client that cannot be told to always log specific/all channels? Or is searching in your usual computing environment more inconvenient than on some web page? For me local logs are much easier to use/search, so I'm trying to figure out why it's the other way round for you. CU Sascha ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Why #sugar should be logged - a plug for transparency and ease of use.
Hi All, II have two personality quirks that often get in my way: I have a great deal of trouble multitasking, and I would loose my head were it not attached to my shoulders. What I need from a computer are tools that complement my limitations, and help me be more productive. irc can be such a tool, particularly in combination with logging. I'm a regular user on #schooltool. I go there to ask questions about schooltool, and participate there in on-line meetings about the development of schooltool. I don't worry about trying to take notes or record what happens on the channel, that all happens *automatically*. If I think later... Oh, yeah, we discussed that back in the first week in October. No problem, just go here: http://schooltool.pov.lt/irclogs/ and look through the dates around the time I remember the meeting happening. I was surprised to find out that there was no logging on #sugar, and it keeps me from wanting to hold any real discussions on the channel. I go there to find if folks are around, then ask them to meet me on google talk, so that I can automatically get a log of what we discuss. It would like to make most of these conversations available to the rest of the community, but I don't have the time to log and publish them myself. Is there a good reason why we don't auto log the channel? jeff elkner ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] prep for an article
On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 6:04 AM, Martin Dengler mar...@martindengler.comwrote: On Wed, Jul 08, 2009 at 05:54:35PM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote: On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:42 PM, a k a.akenn...@gmail.com wrote: 1) can we capture the text of the chats the students are having? (I'd like to do a linguistic analysis--ESPECIALLY if they chat after class--WILL THEY DISCUSS Scratch procedures? 1. The chats are stored in the journal, but we don't know if there is an easy way to move them to a flash drive (Luke is trying as I type). Are you going to tell the kids you're spying on their Chats? :( Of course we are, Martin! In fact, I plan to use this opportunity as a teachable moment to discuss the difference between public speech and private speech and the implications of things like recorded chat files as they impact privacy in the 21st century. jeff ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] prep for an article
Ann, Luke tells me that: 1. The chats are stored in the journal, but we don't know if there is an easy way to move them to a flash drive (Luke is trying as I type). 2. Alt-1 puts a screen shot in the journal. We can drag it to a USB stick from there. Good questions... Thanks! jeff On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 4:42 PM, a k a.akenn...@gmail.com wrote: Jeff, Two quick questions: 1) can we capture the text of the chats the students are having? (I'd like to do a linguistic analysis--ESPECIALLY if they chat after class--WILL THEY DISCUSS Scratch procedures? 2) can we capture a photo (a still) of a Scratch screen? (to illustrate) hasta manana, aa ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
