Re: [Sugar-devel] [FEATURES] Display Device
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.dewrote: Hi, I would like to propose the following Feature to enhance the Sugar learning environment: Add a frame device to control the display. The idea is to add their an option to change the brightness and to take a screenshot. Both actions are only available via the keyboard as of today. [1] Regards, Simon [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/**Features/Display_Devicehttp://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Display_Device Hey Simon, I really like the idea of adding the brightness controls to the frame, especially since that makes it consistent with the volume controls. I'm less convinced about the value of adding the screenshot capability to the frame device. Functionality-wise it is of course related to the display but IMHO it still doesn't quite fit in with the rest of the frame device features. Also I think that today the screenshot functionality is mainly used as a defacto replacement for the lacking print capabilities. Reading through Walter's latest Sugar-Digest it seems like the move to GTK3 will enable much better export / printing capabilities in Activities. As such I feel that adding the screenshot capability to the frame now is more of a short term fix which introduces an inconsistency whereas it should be possible to have a significantly better overall solution soon (e.g. for Sugar 0.98?). Cheers, Christoph -- Christoph Derndorfer editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com] volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at] e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [FEATURES] Display Device
Screenshot is a used feature by teachers anyway. Another requested feature is the ability to take a screenshot with the canvas only (probably with a modifier like alt-shift-1). But the problem with a feature only accessed by a hot key is the discoverability. I don't like using the camera icon to this feature... Gonzalo Hey Simon, I really like the idea of adding the brightness controls to the frame, especially since that makes it consistent with the volume controls. I'm less convinced about the value of adding the screenshot capability to the frame device. Functionality-wise it is of course related to the display but IMHO it still doesn't quite fit in with the rest of the frame device features. Also I think that today the screenshot functionality is mainly used as a defacto replacement for the lacking print capabilities. Reading through Walter's latest Sugar-Digest it seems like the move to GTK3 will enable much better export / printing capabilities in Activities. As such I feel that adding the screenshot capability to the frame now is more of a short term fix which introduces an inconsistency whereas it should be possible to have a significantly better overall solution soon (e.g. for Sugar 0.98?). Cheers, Christoph -- Christoph Derndorfer editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com] volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at] e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [FEATURES] Display Device
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:54 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.dewrote: El 21/11/11 13:17, Christoph Derndorfer escribió: On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de** wrote: Hi, I would like to propose the following Feature to enhance the Sugar learning environment: Add a frame device to control the display. The idea is to add their an option to change the brightness and to take a screenshot. Both actions are only available via the keyboard as of today. [1] Regards, Simon [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Display_Devicehttp://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/**Features/Display_Device http:**//wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/**Features/Display_Devicehttp://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Display_Device Hey Simon, I really like the idea of adding the brightness controls to the frame, especially since that makes it consistent with the volume controls. I'm less convinced about the value of adding the screenshot capability to the frame device. Functionality-wise it is of course related to the display but IMHO it still doesn't quite fit in with the rest of the frame device features. Also I think that today the screenshot functionality is mainly used as a defacto replacement for the lacking print capabilities. Reading through Walter's latest Sugar-Digest it seems like the move to GTK3 will enable much better export / printing capabilities in Activities. As such I feel that adding the screenshot capability to the frame now is more of a short term fix which introduces an inconsistency whereas it should be possible to have a significantly better overall solution soon (e.g. for Sugar 0.98?). Cheers, Christoph Hmm, I disagree here. The screenshot functionality is an important tool, used by teachers. I don't think it is only used as an replacement for printing. Which other uses have you seen? Currently it is only accessible by a shortcut, not available in the UI. That it's why the goal is to preset it here. I could not come up with a better place to expose such a functionality, suggestions welcome. How about using one of the unmapped buttons on the XO's keyboard? e.g. the bulletin board button looks similar enough to the copy of a display (with some creativity that is;-) Christoph Regards, Simon -- Christoph Derndorfer editor, OLPC News [www.olpcnews.com] volunteer, OLPC (Austria) [www.olpc.at] e-mail: christ...@derndorfer.eu ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [FEATURES] Display Device
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 7:54 AM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: El 21/11/11 13:17, Christoph Derndorfer escribió: On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.dewrote: Hi, I would like to propose the following Feature to enhance the Sugar learning environment: Add a frame device to control the display. The idea is to add their an option to change the brightness and to take a screenshot. Both actions are only available via the keyboard as of today. [1] Regards, Simon [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/**Features/Display_Devicehttp://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Display_Device Hey Simon, I really like the idea of adding the brightness controls to the frame, especially since that makes it consistent with the volume controls. I'm less convinced about the value of adding the screenshot capability to the frame device. Functionality-wise it is of course related to the display but IMHO it still doesn't quite fit in with the rest of the frame device features. Also I think that today the screenshot functionality is mainly used as a defacto replacement for the lacking print capabilities. Reading through Walter's latest Sugar-Digest it seems like the move to GTK3 will enable much better export / printing capabilities in Activities. As such I feel that adding the screenshot capability to the frame now is more of a short term fix which introduces an inconsistency whereas it should be possible to have a significantly better overall solution soon (e.g. for Sugar 0.98?). Cheers, Christoph Hmm, I disagree here. The screenshot functionality is an important tool, used by teachers. I don't think it is only used as an replacement for printing. Screen capture is an essential tool for creating documentation, something we'd like to encourage our end users to do. -walter Currently it is only accessible by a shortcut, not available in the UI. That it's why the goal is to preset it here. I could not come up with a better place to expose such a functionality, suggestions welcome. Regards, Simon ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [FEATURES] Display Device
simon wrote: Hi, I would like to propose the following Feature to enhance the Sugar learning environment: Add a frame device to control the display. The idea is to add their an option to change the brightness and to take a screenshot. Both actions are only available via the keyboard as of today. [1] oh, good idea. in fact, i have another job for it to do. :-) it would be great if it could switch the display from color to monochrome, as well. see my email on automatic backlight control, which i've composed but haven't sent yet. i'll do so right now. paul Regards, Simon [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Display_Device ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [FEATURES] Display Device
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: El 21/11/11 15:18, Paul Fox escribió: simon wrote: Hi, I would like to propose the following Feature to enhance the Sugar learning environment: Add a frame device to control the display. The idea is to add their an option to change the brightness and to take a screenshot. Both actions are only available via the keyboard as of today. [1] oh, good idea. in fact, i have another job for it to do. :-) it would be great if it could switch the display from color to monochrome, as well. see my email on automatic backlight control, which i've composed but haven't sent yet. i'll do so right now. paul Hi Paul, I just looked at olpc-kbdshim the olpc-brightness for how we adjust the brightness on the XO. Looks like we simply echo the values to the files like '/sys/class/backlight/dcon-bl/brightness'. I wonder what the generic solution is for that (Sugar on other devices). From a quick test, I have the following files on my T61: /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/max_brightness and /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/actual_brightness which change accordingly when adjusting the brightness. But I guess there is a generic tool for doing that...? /me should probably have a look what GNOME is doing... There's recently been introduced a generic backlight class so I think its all being converted over to that. Its like the IBM one in /sys/class/backlight but I'm not sure the full details for manipulating it programaticly but I'm sure its documented somewhere. Some details are: https://lwn.net/Articles/423170/ https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kernel/Debugging/Backlight Peter ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [FEATURES] Display Device
peter wrote: On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de wrote: El 21/11/11 15:18, Paul Fox escribió: simon wrote: Hi, I would like to propose the following Feature to enhance the Sugar learning environment: Add a frame device to control the display. The idea is to add their an option to change the brightness and to take a screenshot. Both actions are only available via the keyboard as of today. [1] oh, good idea. in fact, i have another job for it to do. :-) it would be great if it could switch the display from color to monochrome, as well. see my email on automatic backlight control, which i've composed but haven't sent yet. i'll do so right now. paul Hi Paul, I just looked at olpc-kbdshim the olpc-brightness for how we adjust the brightness on the XO. Looks like we simply echo the values to the files like '/sys/class/backlight/dcon-bl/brightness'. I wonder what the generic solution is for that (Sugar on other devices). From a quick test, I have the following files on my T61: /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/max_brightness and /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/actual_brightness which change accordingly when adjusting the brightness. But I guess there is a generic tool for doing that...? /me should probably have a look what GNOME is doing... There's recently been introduced a generic backlight class so I think its all being converted over to that. Its like the IBM one in /sys/class/backlight but I'm not sure the full details for manipulating it programaticly but I'm sure its documented somewhere. Some details are: https://lwn.net/Articles/423170/ https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kernel/Debugging/Backlight we seem to implement anything mentioned in those two links. i wouldn't be surprised if there was a more recent higher level interface that might be useful. paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [FEATURES] Display Device
El 21/11/11 17:16, Paul Fox escribió: peter wrote: On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:33 PM, Simon Schampijersi...@schampijer.de wrote: El 21/11/11 15:18, Paul Fox escribió: simon wrote: Hi, I would like to propose the following Feature to enhance the Sugar learning environment: Add a frame device to control the display. The idea is to add their an option to change the brightness and to take a screenshot. Both actions are only available via the keyboard as of today. [1] oh, good idea. in fact, i have another job for it to do. :-) it would be great if it could switch the display from color to monochrome, as well. see my email on automatic backlight control, which i've composed but haven't sent yet. i'll do so right now. paul Hi Paul, I just looked at olpc-kbdshim the olpc-brightness for how we adjust the brightness on the XO. Looks like we simply echo the values to the files like '/sys/class/backlight/dcon-bl/brightness'. I wonder what the generic solution is for that (Sugar on other devices). From a quick test, I have the following files on my T61: /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/max_brightness and /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight/actual_brightness which change accordingly when adjusting the brightness. But I guess there is a generic tool for doing that...? /me should probably have a look what GNOME is doing... There's recently been introduced a generic backlight class so I think its all being converted over to that. Its like the IBM one in /sys/class/backlight but I'm not sure the full details for manipulating it programaticly but I'm sure its documented somewhere. Some details are: https://lwn.net/Articles/423170/ https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kernel/Debugging/Backlight we seem to implement anything mentioned in those two links. i wouldn't be surprised if there was a more recent higher level interface that might be useful. paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org I have been checking what gnome is doing (gnome-settings-daemon (the functionality was in gnome-power-manager before)): - they use xbacklight [1] if possible to get/set the brightness [2], doing this through the gnome-desktop library [3] - there is fallback code to deal with hardware where xbacklight is not available [4] using the content of /sys/class/backlight Regards, Simon [1] http://linux.die.net/man/1/xbacklight [2] http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/power/gsd-power-manager.c#n2405 [3] http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-desktop/tree/libgnome-desktop/gnome-rr.c#n1682 [4] http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/power/gsd-backlight-helper.c ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [FEATURES] Display Device
simon wrote: I have been checking what gnome is doing (gnome-settings-daemon (the functionality was in gnome-power-manager before)): - they use xbacklight [1] if possible to get/set the brightness [2], doing this through the gnome-desktop library [3] - there is fallback code to deal with hardware where xbacklight is not available [4] using the content of /sys/class/backlight if you're planning on using standard facilities for backlight control, that might be another argument for not switching mono/color when changing brightness. otherwise either the sugar UI will behave differently than the brightness keys, or sugar will continue needing an XO-specific codepath, in which case you might as well just call olpc-brightness. (but maybe that's what you were planning on doing anyway, and are only exploring standards for non-XO platforms.) paul Regards, Simon [1] http://linux.die.net/man/1/xbacklight [2] http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/power/gsd-power-m anager.c#n2405 [3] http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-desktop/tree/libgnome-desktop/gnome-rr.c#n1682 [4] http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/tree/plugins/power/gsd-backlig ht-helper.c ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
