Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 4:27 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 2012-06-13, at 07:50, Steven Thompson wrote: Even just in English in Japan could help kids. The common denomenator for jhs and hs kids is an iPhone or android and the iPad at home...much more so than buying an Intel Classmate or having a hope of getting an XO. Sugar can be installed on any PC, not just Classmates or XOs. It's not about price or energy requirements here, its about good education for kids. Can we get sugar as a Mac Ap at the Ap Store? I think Sugar-on-a-Stick (SoaS) can be plugged into recent Macs and works. You've always been able to plug SoaS into x86 Macs and have it work (just like any Linux distro), the latest version adds much better support for it and there's been specific interest in making it work properly with uEFI and all the Mac quirks. It's quite easy to use SoaS on a usb key on Macs and with something like VirtualBox you can run Sugar in a Window on Mac without too many issues. Sugar as an App on Mac is an interesting concept and with improving Mac support within GTK3 something like the Sugar in a Window concept we use for testing is quite conceivable once the Sugar port to GTK3 is complete, of course like everything it needs someone to step up and do the work. Peter In the spirit of exploring interesting concepts that might stimulate new development, might someone explain the obstacles that prevent Sugar from running on an iPad, as well, discuss potential approaches to overcome those obstacles. For example, Etoys, an independent but significant component in Sugar, can be run on an iPad since June 2010, http://croquetweak.blogspot.com/2010/06/squeak-etoys-on-ipad.html http://etoys.squeak.org/experimental/ipad/ Also with time, the current crop of iPads will become secondary devices as newer tablets are released. Folks will then be more willing to void warranties and experiment with the operating systems. --Fred Etoys runs in a virtual machine. Once that VM is ported to a new environment, Etoys will run. Sugar on the other hand is a desktop and collection of applications that require Linux and the Gnome toolkit (among other dependencies). Once a Linux VM with Gnome is running in an environment, the process of porting Sugar is *relatively* painless. So the question is: is there a Linux/Gnome VM for the iPad? iPhone? iWhatever? No because Apply explicitly doesn't allow other languages so we can't run python which means we need some form of python - objective-C compiler or similar to be able to run it on those sort of devices. Peter ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
On 2012-06-14, at 12:54, Peter Robinson wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: So the question is: is there a Linux/Gnome VM for the iPad? iPhone? iWhatever? No because Apply explicitly doesn't allow other languages so we can't run python which means we need some form of python - objective-C compiler or similar to be able to run it on those sort of devices. Not true. Not since 2010 anyway. You can now code iOS apps in any language you want. There are apps in the Apple App Store written in Squeak, and Lua, and I guess many other languages. E.g. here is a Python environment: http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/python-for-ios/id485729872?mt=8 There are of course other reasons why you wouldn't get Sugar into the app store (see e.g. my message from yesterday). But the programming language is no problem. - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
On 13.06.2012 17:30, Frederick Grose wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 4:27 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com [2] wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de [1] wrote: On 2012-06-13, at 07:50, Steven Thompson wrote: Even just in English in Japan could help kids. The common denomenator for jhs and hs kids is an iPhone or android and the iPad at home...much more so than buying an Intel Classmate or having a hope of getting an XO. Sugar can be installed on any PC, not just Classmates or XOs. It's not about price or energy requirements here, its about good education for kids. You've always been able to plug SoaS into x86 Macs and have it work ... is quite conceivable once the Sugar port to GTK3 is complete, of course like everything it needs someone to step up and do the work. Peter In the spirit of exploring interesting concepts that might stimulate new development, might someone explain the obstacles that prevent Sugar from running on an iPad, as well, discuss potential approaches to overcome those obstacles. For example, Etoys, an independent but significant component in Sugar, can be run on an iPad since June 2010, http://croquetweak.blogspot.com/2010/06/squeak-etoys-on-ipad.html [3] http://etoys.squeak.org/experimental/ipad/ [4] Also with time, the current crop of iPads will become secondary devices as newer tablets are released. Folks will then be more willing to void warranties and experiment with the operating systems. --Fred I have been dreaming of buying a £100 tablet, for installing Sugar, like this in local Maplin store, http://www.maplin.co.uk/arnova-8-g3-8in-touch-tablet-android-4.0-630087 It has: ARM A8 Cortex(tm) 1GHz processor, capacitive multi-touch screen, 1GB RAM, front camera, Android 4.0, so am thinking it would be a fine candidate for Fedora-arm / Sugar. I have not seen it discussed, has it been done already? Iain Links: -- [1] mailto:b...@freudenbergs.de [2] mailto:pbrobin...@gmail.com [3] http://croquetweak.blogspot.com/2010/06/squeak-etoys-on-ipad.html [4] http://etoys.squeak.org/experimental/ipad/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
The question is what you refer to when you talk about Sugar. The concept of an app is similar to the concept of an Activity in Sugar. If you want to bring educational material to the ipad you have to look at specific Apps like 'Move the turtle' which is similar to Turtle Art. 'garageband' is another one interesting for older kids. Regards, Simon Am 13.06.2012 um 07:50 schrieb Steven Thompson steven_sen...@yahoo.com: Even just in English in Japan could help kids. The common denomenator for jhs and hs kids is an iPhone or android and the iPad at home...much more so than buying an Intel Classmate or having a hope of getting an XO. It's not about price or energy requirements here, its about good education for kids. Can we get sugar as a Mac Ap at the Ap Store? From: Chris Leonard cjlhomeaddr...@gmail.com; To: Steven Thompson steven_sen...@yahoo.com; Cc: Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com; community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org; i...@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; Subject: Re: [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap? Sent: Wed, Jun 13, 2012 1:10:09 AM On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Steven Thompson steven_sen...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you all in this community for your creative dedication. I am considering using sugar for my 4 year old daughter and her friends. Parents have access to iPads. We are in Osaka Japan. Can Sugar be used on an iPad? If not does anyone have any suggestions for getting a group if Japanese kids involved? The benefit of the tablet us that very strong cases can be easily purchased for kid use. Why buy an Intel Classmate when we already have iPads lying around! All suggestions welcome, Steven Dear Steven, One of the first things that is needed is more complete Japanese localization. http://translate.sugarlabs.org/ja/ cjl Sugar Labs Translation Team Coordinator ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
Thank you for your quick response Simon. I could just use ipads with educational Aps but I too like using something that let kids get their hands dirty. Get an Intel Classmate or might there be hope of getting say, 10 XOs to do a research project in Japan even. I could do this. Steven Steven Thompson steven_sen...@yahoo.com From: Simon Schampijer si...@schampijer.de To: Steven Thompson steven_sen...@yahoo.com Cc: Chris Leonard cjlhomeaddr...@gmail.com; i...@lists.sugarlabs.org i...@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org; Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap? The question is what you refer to when you talk about Sugar. The concept of an app is similar to the concept of an Activity in Sugar. If you want to bring educational material to the ipad you have to look at specific Apps like 'Move the turtle' which is similar to Turtle Art. 'garageband' is another one interesting for older kids. Regards, Simon Am 13.06.2012 um 07:50 schrieb Steven Thompson steven_sen...@yahoo.com: Even just in English in Japan could help kids. The common denomenator for jhs and hs kids is an iPhone or android and the iPad at home...much more so than buying an Intel Classmate or having a hope of getting an XO. It's not about price or energy requirements here, its about good education for kids. Can we get sugar as a Mac Ap at the Ap Store? From: Chris Leonard cjlhomeaddr...@gmail.com; To: Steven Thompson steven_sen...@yahoo.com; Cc: Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com; community-n...@lists.sugarlabs.org; i...@lists.sugarlabs.org; sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org; Subject: Re: [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap? Sent: Wed, Jun 13, 2012 1:10:09 AM On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Steven Thompson steven_sen...@yahoo.com wrote: Thank you all in this community for your creative dedication. I am considering using sugar for my 4 year old daughter and her friends. Parents have access to iPads. We are in Osaka Japan. Can Sugar be used on an iPad? If not does anyone have any suggestions for getting a group if Japanese kids involved? The benefit of the tablet us that very strong cases can be easily purchased for kid use. Why buy an Intel Classmate when we already have iPads lying around! All suggestions welcome, Steven Dear Steven, One of the first things that is needed is more complete Japanese localization. http://translate.sugarlabs.org/ja/ cjl Sugar Labs Translation Team Coordinator ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 3:14 AM, Steven Thompson steven_sen...@yahoo.comwrote: Thank you for your quick response Simon. I could just use ipads with educational Aps but I too like using something that let kids get their hands dirty. Get an Intel Classmate or might there be hope of getting say, 10 XOs to do a research project in Japan even. I could do this. Steven 10 XOs is probably more than you would be able to get, but if you have a reasonable proposal, you can apply to the Contributor's program. You'd also need a US address to ship to as OLPC doesn't do international shipping for CP anymore after too many problems with customs. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Contributors_program Working on translations into Japanese and testing of them is possibly a basis for a contributor's project proposal, or at least a valued ancillary contribution of another type of proposal that would improve the ROI. cjl Sugar Labs Translation Team Coordinator ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 2012-06-13, at 07:50, Steven Thompson wrote: Even just in English in Japan could help kids. The common denomenator for jhs and hs kids is an iPhone or android and the iPad at home...much more so than buying an Intel Classmate or having a hope of getting an XO. Sugar can be installed on any PC, not just Classmates or XOs. It's not about price or energy requirements here, its about good education for kids. Can we get sugar as a Mac Ap at the Ap Store? I think Sugar-on-a-Stick (SoaS) can be plugged into recent Macs and works. You've always been able to plug SoaS into x86 Macs and have it work (just like any Linux distro), the latest version adds much better support for it and there's been specific interest in making it work properly with uEFI and all the Mac quirks. It's quite easy to use SoaS on a usb key on Macs and with something like VirtualBox you can run Sugar in a Window on Mac without too many issues. Sugar as an App on Mac is an interesting concept and with improving Mac support within GTK3 something like the Sugar in a Window concept we use for testing is quite conceivable once the Sugar port to GTK3 is complete, of course like everything it needs someone to step up and do the work. Peter ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 4:27 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 2012-06-13, at 07:50, Steven Thompson wrote: Even just in English in Japan could help kids. The common denomenator for jhs and hs kids is an iPhone or android and the iPad at home...much more so than buying an Intel Classmate or having a hope of getting an XO. Sugar can be installed on any PC, not just Classmates or XOs. It's not about price or energy requirements here, its about good education for kids. Can we get sugar as a Mac Ap at the Ap Store? I think Sugar-on-a-Stick (SoaS) can be plugged into recent Macs and works. You've always been able to plug SoaS into x86 Macs and have it work (just like any Linux distro), the latest version adds much better support for it and there's been specific interest in making it work properly with uEFI and all the Mac quirks. It's quite easy to use SoaS on a usb key on Macs and with something like VirtualBox you can run Sugar in a Window on Mac without too many issues. Sugar as an App on Mac is an interesting concept and with improving Mac support within GTK3 something like the Sugar in a Window concept we use for testing is quite conceivable once the Sugar port to GTK3 is complete, of course like everything it needs someone to step up and do the work. Peter In the spirit of exploring interesting concepts that might stimulate new development, might someone explain the obstacles that prevent Sugar from running on an iPad, as well, discuss potential approaches to overcome those obstacles. For example, Etoys, an independent but significant component in Sugar, can be run on an iPad since June 2010, http://croquetweak.blogspot.com/2010/06/squeak-etoys-on-ipad.html http://etoys.squeak.org/experimental/ipad/ Also with time, the current crop of iPads will become secondary devices as newer tablets are released. Folks will then be more willing to void warranties and experiment with the operating systems. --Fred ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Frederick Grose fgr...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 4:27 AM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 2012-06-13, at 07:50, Steven Thompson wrote: Even just in English in Japan could help kids. The common denomenator for jhs and hs kids is an iPhone or android and the iPad at home...much more so than buying an Intel Classmate or having a hope of getting an XO. Sugar can be installed on any PC, not just Classmates or XOs. It's not about price or energy requirements here, its about good education for kids. Can we get sugar as a Mac Ap at the Ap Store? I think Sugar-on-a-Stick (SoaS) can be plugged into recent Macs and works. You've always been able to plug SoaS into x86 Macs and have it work (just like any Linux distro), the latest version adds much better support for it and there's been specific interest in making it work properly with uEFI and all the Mac quirks. It's quite easy to use SoaS on a usb key on Macs and with something like VirtualBox you can run Sugar in a Window on Mac without too many issues. Sugar as an App on Mac is an interesting concept and with improving Mac support within GTK3 something like the Sugar in a Window concept we use for testing is quite conceivable once the Sugar port to GTK3 is complete, of course like everything it needs someone to step up and do the work. Peter In the spirit of exploring interesting concepts that might stimulate new development, might someone explain the obstacles that prevent Sugar from running on an iPad, as well, discuss potential approaches to overcome those obstacles. For example, Etoys, an independent but significant component in Sugar, can be run on an iPad since June 2010, http://croquetweak.blogspot.com/2010/06/squeak-etoys-on-ipad.html http://etoys.squeak.org/experimental/ipad/ Also with time, the current crop of iPads will become secondary devices as newer tablets are released. Folks will then be more willing to void warranties and experiment with the operating systems. --Fred Etoys runs in a virtual machine. Once that VM is ported to a new environment, Etoys will run. Sugar on the other hand is a desktop and collection of applications that require Linux and the Gnome toolkit (among other dependencies). Once a Linux VM with Gnome is running in an environment, the process of porting Sugar is *relatively* painless. So the question is: is there a Linux/Gnome VM for the iPad? iPhone? iWhatever? -walter ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
On 2012-06-13, at 18:42, Walter Bender wrote: Etoys runs in a virtual machine. Once that VM is ported to a new environment, Etoys will run. Sugar on the other hand is a desktop and collection of applications that require Linux and the Gnome toolkit (among other dependencies). Once a Linux VM with Gnome is running in an environment, the process of porting Sugar is *relatively* painless. So the question is: is there a Linux/Gnome VM for the iPad? iPhone? iWhatever? -walter Apple wouldn't allow a generic VM into their App Store. The only unrestricted environment on the iPad is the web browser. I think Sugar's open and collaborative philosophy is fundamentally incompatible with Apple's current developer guidelines. You could port single Sugar activities to the iPad, but since users would be prevented from changing them, Sugar's idea of learning by hacking would be lost. - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 9:05 PM, Steven Thompson steven_sen...@yahoo.comwrote: Thank you all in this community for your creative dedication. I am considering using sugar for my 4 year old daughter and her friends. Parents have access to iPads. We are in Osaka Japan. Can Sugar be used on an iPad? If not does anyone have any suggestions for getting a group if Japanese kids involved? The benefit of the tablet us that very strong cases can be easily purchased for kid use. Why buy an Intel Classmate when we already have iPads lying around! All suggestions welcome, Steven Dear Steven, One of the first things that is needed is more complete Japanese localization. http://translate.sugarlabs.org/ja/ cjl Sugar Labs Translation Team Coordinator ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] [IAEP] Sugar as a Mac Ap?
Even just in English in Japan could help kids. The common denomenator for jhs and hs kids is an iPhone or android and the iPad at home...much more so than buying an Intel Classmate or having a hope of getting an XO. It#39;s not about price or energy requirements here, its about good education for kids. Can we get sugar as a Mac Ap at the Ap Store? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
