Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
I made some change to http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/sck/Advanced_Topics#Sweets_Distribution This section is linked from the Ubuntu page. I think it is slightly more clear now. I do not why the section title was used for the maybe most important link. This confused me at least. The raw repository link (rather than apt line) was not so friendly. So I replaced it with the Sweets_Distribution wiki page. People can find real instructions here, at least. Also, because instructions for synaptic is not available yet. I changed synaptic to more general apt. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 04:09:22PM +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: I made some change to http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/sck/Advanced_Topics#Sweets_Distribution This section is linked from the Ubuntu page. I think it is slightly more clear now. I do not why the section title was used for the maybe most important link. This confused me at least. I agree. I really don't like the use of the section title as a link. It goes against expectations for readers used to Wikipedia editorial policies. The raw repository link (rather than apt line) was not so friendly. So I replaced it with the Sweets_Distribution wiki page. People can find real instructions here, at least. Also, because instructions for synaptic is not available yet. I changed synaptic to more general apt. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
Excerpts from Edward Mokurai Cherlin's message of 2012-02-27 03:08:42 +0100: [pulling in debian-olpc-devel where the Debian efforts to package Sugar are coordinated] The big picture answer, apart from instructions for non-standard installations from non-standard repositories, is to work with the Debian and Ubuntu packagers to streamline the packaging of new Sugar releases in order to get them into the upgrade stream in a timely manner. If somebody involved in the process can explain exactly what is needed, I expect that we can recruit some more helpers. (Similarly for RPM packaging for Red Hat and other distributions that use that format.) On Debian, Sugar is several releases behind (0.90, which has a severely broken Collaboration stack, is the latest offer). That should be fixed; the best way to get efforts going again is to show the people involved (especially Jonas Smedegaard) that there's real interest from users in (packaged) Sugar on Debian. On Ubuntu, the situation is worse (and has been for about 3 years [1]) and not as easy to fix. Apart from normal bugs that impact Sugar (e.g. Xephyr doesn't work [2], breaking sugar-emulator), they completely dropped the python-xpcom package [3], breaking Browse. But as Browse is in the process of moving to WebkitGTK [4], there's finally a chance to have a non-crippled Sugar on Ubuntu in a not too distant future. Sascha [1] https://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/729 [2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/325706 [3] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/480407/+index [4] https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/WebKit -- http://sascha.silbe.org/ http://www.infra-silbe.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
I just updated the wiki page with your suggestions: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Ubuntu Thanks; Tom Gilliard On 02/27/2012 12:09 AM, Ma Xiaojun wrote: I made some change to http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/sck/Advanced_Topics#Sweets_Distribution This section is linked from the Ubuntu page. I think it is slightly more clear now. I do not why the section title was used for the maybe most important link. This confused me at least. The raw repository link (rather than apt line) was not so friendly. So I replaced it with the Sweets_Distribution wiki page. People can find real instructions here, at least. Also, because instructions for synaptic is not available yet. I changed synaptic to more general apt. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
I find that the page is even more confusing... Radical changes have been made by me. I don't touch the instructions for desktop Ubuntu, though. Because I need to do testing. I find that the ubuntu's official repository has multiple version of sucrose http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=sucrosesearchon=namessuite=allsection=all ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
The page changed radically again... It is not edited by me. I want to ask that is there an easy-to-install package in Trisquel's official repository? What is it? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 12:10:52PM +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: The page changed radically again... It is not edited by me. That was me. I'm testing Ubuntu install of Sugar now. I want to ask that is there an easy-to-install package in Trisquel's official repository? What is it? I don't know of one. Try sucrose-0.90. Trisquel probably won't have a later version of Sugar than Ubuntu does ... if they did, they would have pushed the work upstream to Ubuntu and Debian. Otherwise, use Sweets. Have you tried that yet? -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
I don't know of one. Try sucrose-0.90. Trisquel probably won't have a later version of Sugar than Ubuntu does ... if they did, they would have pushed the work upstream to Ubuntu and Debian. Otherwise, use Sweets. Have you tried that yet? Testing is not very easy for me. I'm an undergraduate having classes to attend, you know. Sugar's wiki shouldn't be a place for distribution recommendation and/or debate. We'd respect users' origin choices as much as possible. Personally, I don't like distribution switch recommendation. Can anyone prove or disprove whether Trisquel offers practical advantage over Ubuntu with regard to Sugar installation. AFAIK, Trisquel inspired the author of Sweets. This can be mentioned in the Ubuntu page, but it has nothing to do with distribution switch. I just knew Fedora-based SoaS before noticing similar, probably better, Trisquel-based TOAST. TOAST should be useful for anyone who can use a x86 virtual/real machine. It can be mentioned in Ubuntu page because Ubuntu users may expect Ubuntu like command line rather than Fedora command line. TOAST has nothing to do with distribution switch as well. Trisquel's page is not satisfactory also. But my focus would limit to Ubuntu page currently. For Ubuntu Sugar Remix, I notice that their mailing list already have had spams for some times. It seems that the origin team is not there any more. Maybe I should try to ask mainstream Ubuntu people directly. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 01:56:03PM +0800, Ma Xiaojun wrote: I don't know of one. ?Try sucrose-0.90. ?Trisquel probably won't have a later version of Sugar than Ubuntu does ... if they did, they would have pushed the work upstream to Ubuntu and Debian. Otherwise, use Sweets. ?Have you tried that yet? Testing is not very easy for me. I'm an undergraduate having classes to attend, you know. Well, I've tested Sweets just now, and it works well. It is worth the small number of extra commands to cut and paste. Sweets includes many more activities than the Ubuntu packages do. Browse works fine on Sweets. Browse does not work at all when using the Ubuntu packages. I recommend you try Sweets. Sugar's wiki shouldn't be a place for distribution recommendation and/or debate. [...] On the one hand, yes, it should be a place, because we want users to use Sugar. If that means we have to admit that using a particular distribution won't give them a good experience, or that they would need a degree in software engineering to install Sugar properly, then so be it. We'd respect users' origin choices as much as possible. Personally, I don't like distribution switch recommendation. Can anyone prove or disprove whether Trisquel offers practical advantage over Ubuntu with regard to Sugar installation. I agree, I don't like the switch recommendation either, but mainly because it doesn't answer the question I've got Ubuntu and I want to use Sugar, how do I do it?. I've removed it. Thanks! AFAIK, Trisquel inspired the author of Sweets. This can be mentioned in the Ubuntu page, but it has nothing to do with distribution switch. I just knew Fedora-based SoaS before noticing similar, probably better, Trisquel-based TOAST. TOAST should be useful for anyone who can use a x86 virtual/real machine. It can be mentioned in Ubuntu page because Ubuntu users may expect Ubuntu like command line rather than Fedora command line. TOAST has nothing to do with distribution switch as well. Hmm. Yes, I agree, but I'd rather the Ubuntu page not be cluttered and disorganised. These things could go in the Talk page. Trisquel's page is not satisfactory also. But my focus would limit to Ubuntu page currently. I agree. I've focused on the Ubuntu page, because I felt it was an important distribution with a large user base. For Ubuntu Sugar Remix, I notice that their mailing list already have had spams for some times. It seems that the origin team is not there any more. Maybe I should try to ask mainstream Ubuntu people directly. Jonas in the Debian team seems to be aware of the status. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
Hi, all My main reference is http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Ubuntu , I assume its accuracy. Please correct me when needed. The BIG picture I got: Install Sugar 0.90 is easy, but it is obsolete. Sugar is 0.94 is recommended, but, how to install it? What to do with the fancy link http://download.sugarlabs.org/packages/SweetsDistribution:/0.94/Ubuntu-11.04/ I happened to know what is /etc/apt/sources.list . http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/natty/man5/sources.list.5.html You should know what I mean, BUT: Should we have some documentation for adding this repository in CLI and GUI? Should we have a PPA to make things easier? I mean PPA's apt line is simpler and there is a CLI shortcut for adding PPA. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu I'm not a Ubuntu or Linux expert anyway. I have no access to a working Ubuntu temporarily, so, let me collect some discussion first. Thank you in advance. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
On Sun, February 26, 2012 8:49 pm, Ma Xiaojun wrote: Hi, all My main reference is http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Ubuntu , I assume its accuracy. Please correct me when needed. The BIG picture I got: Install Sugar 0.90 is easy, but it is obsolete. Sugar is 0.94 is recommended, but, how to install it? The big picture answer, apart from instructions for non-standard installations from non-standard repositories, is to work with the Debian and Ubuntu packagers to streamline the packaging of new Sugar releases in order to get them into the upgrade stream in a timely manner. If somebody involved in the process can explain exactly what is needed, I expect that we can recruit some more helpers. (Similarly for RPM packaging for Red Hat and other distributions that use that format.) My understanding is that the process can be automated in whole or in part if the dependencies don't change radically between versions. Someone like Jonas Smedegaard who is involved in the process can correct me if I have misunderstood, and can greatly amplify what I am telling you. What to do with the fancy link http://download.sugarlabs.org/packages/SweetsDistribution:/0.94/Ubuntu-11.04/ I happened to know what is /etc/apt/sources.list . http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/natty/man5/sources.list.5.html You should know what I mean, BUT: Should we have some documentation for adding this repository in CLI and GUI? Should we have a PPA to make things easier? I mean PPA's apt line is simpler and there is a CLI shortcut for adding PPA. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu I'm not a Ubuntu or Linux expert anyway. I have no access to a working Ubuntu temporarily, so, let me collect some discussion first. Thank you in advance. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- Edward Mokurai (默雷/धर्ममेघशब्दगर्ज/دھرممیگھشبدگر ج) Cherlin Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
On 02/26/2012 05:49 PM, Ma Xiaojun wrote: Hi, all My main reference is http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Ubuntu , I assume its accuracy. Please correct me when needed. The BIG picture I got: Install Sugar 0.90 is easy, but it is obsolete. Sugar is 0.94 is recommended, but, how to install it? What to do with the fancy link http://download.sugarlabs.org/packages/SweetsDistribution:/0.94/Ubuntu-11.04/ Look at these links: How to install sugar 0.94 in Ubuntu 11.04 (Try to copy-paste the commands listed on the page into a Ubuntu 11.04 terminal) http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Sweets_Distribution#Sweets_Distribution_0.94 A VirtualBox importable appliance that works in most OS's I have tested it in Ubuntu linux and OSX NEW-completed yesterday (All of the work has been done here, just Download the 2 files and import into Virtualbox) VirtualBox top menu bar: File/import_appliance http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit#Ubuntu_11.04-sweets-distribution_sugar_0.94 Tom Gilliard satellit_on #sugar IRC freenode I happened to know what is /etc/apt/sources.list . http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/natty/man5/sources.list.5.html You should know what I mean, BUT: Should we have some documentation for adding this repository in CLI and GUI? Should we have a PPA to make things easier? I mean PPA's apt line is simpler and there is a CLI shortcut for adding PPA. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu I'm not a Ubuntu or Linux expert anyway. I have no access to a working Ubuntu temporarily, so, let me collect some discussion first. Thank you in advance. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
Ubuntu sweets-distribution is alsroots port of sugar 0.94 to Ubuntu with some Dextrose features. Works well-just copy-paste commands from page into Ubuntu 11.04 gnome-classic terminal http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Sweets_Distribution#Installation Tom Gilliard On 02/26/2012 06:08 PM, Edward Mokurai Cherlin wrote: On Sun, February 26, 2012 8:49 pm, Ma Xiaojun wrote: Hi, all My main reference is http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Ubuntu , I assume its accuracy. Please correct me when needed. The BIG picture I got: Install Sugar 0.90 is easy, but it is obsolete. Sugar is 0.94 is recommended, but, how to install it? The big picture answer, apart from instructions for non-standard installations from non-standard repositories, is to work with the Debian and Ubuntu packagers to streamline the packaging of new Sugar releases in order to get them into the upgrade stream in a timely manner. If somebody involved in the process can explain exactly what is needed, I expect that we can recruit some more helpers. (Similarly for RPM packaging for Red Hat and other distributions that use that format.) My understanding is that the process can be automated in whole or in part if the dependencies don't change radically between versions. Someone like Jonas Smedegaard who is involved in the process can correct me if I have misunderstood, and can greatly amplify what I am telling you. What to do with the fancy link http://download.sugarlabs.org/packages/SweetsDistribution:/0.94/Ubuntu-11.04/ I happened to know what is /etc/apt/sources.list . http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/natty/man5/sources.list.5.html You should know what I mean, BUT: Should we have some documentation for adding this repository in CLI and GUI? Should we have a PPA to make things easier? I mean PPA's apt line is simpler and there is a CLI shortcut for adding PPA. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/Ubuntu I'm not a Ubuntu or Linux expert anyway. I have no access to a working Ubuntu temporarily, so, let me collect some discussion first. Thank you in advance. ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
The above link should work. However, how to find the link from my first link? I think my link would be regarded as kind of portal. Also, what about Ubuntu other than version 11.04? -- Ma Xiaojun SYSU+CUHK damage3...@gmail.com ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
1-) http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/sck/Advanced_Topics (Discusses alsroots' Sweets) and has overview. Real link is here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Sweets_Distribution 2-) http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Sweets_Distribution (has the link you sent) and was developed specifically for Trisquel Toast. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Trisquel_On_A_Sugar_Toast This is special repository to add to Ubuntu or Trisquel http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Trisquel Sweets is the more general case. It is still under development by alsroot This is an Advanced_Topic : - ) Tom Gilliard satellit_ om #sugar IRC freenode On 02/26/2012 09:19 PM, Ma Xiaojun wrote: The above link should work. However, how to find the link from my first link? I think my link would be regarded as kind of portal. Also, what about Ubuntu other than version 11.04? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Can we be a little more friendly to Ubuntu users
Is that really true? I thought Sweets was stable. If so, I see no reason why it shouldn't be listed on the Ubuntu page as Ma Xiaojun suggested. I suspect the real reason it isn't listed is that nobody thought to put it there. On Sun, Feb 26, 2012 at 10:45:00PM -0800, Thomas C Gilliard wrote: 1-) http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit/sck/Advanced_Topics (Discusses alsroots' Sweets) and has overview. Real link is here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Sweets_Distribution 2-) http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Sweets_Distribution (has the link you sent) and was developed specifically for Trisquel Toast. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Trisquel_On_A_Sugar_Toast This is special repository to add to Ubuntu or Trisquel http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Trisquel Sweets is the more general case. It is still under development by alsroot This is an Advanced_Topic : - ) Tom Gilliard satellit_ om #sugar IRC freenode On 02/26/2012 09:19 PM, Ma Xiaojun wrote: The above link should work. However, how to find the link from my first link? I think my link would be regarded as kind of portal. Also, what about Ubuntu other than version 11.04? ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
