Re: [Sugar-devel] Default Collaboration Server
Sam wrote: > However, I propose that we change the default (this release!) to use > the local network (telepathy salut). This is a feature is that is > already in sugar, and is used on XOs and normal computers. I'm fine with that. We already do this in OLPC builds, in modules/sugar/kspost.50.gconf.inc where jabber-server=''. That most users of Sugar already use Telepathy Salut is the most important reason for making the change. I'm surprised you didn't mention it. What you did mention as justification was: > * Better activity support. Tubes are supported by salut, but not by > gabble (server based collab.). This means that activities that > haven't been ported this cycle (most of them) will still work under > salut (proposed default), but will not work under gabble (current > default) That's a lame reason to make the change. It would be better to port the activities properly. > * More contextual neighbourhood view. You only see people on your > local WiFi (or wired) network. This is more helpful for finding your > friends than the trawling the crowded jabber.sugarlabs.org > neighbourhood. I also think this is a lame reason. If there's a problem with finding your friends we need to improve the UI rather than remove all your friends. > * More features. File transfers work via salut, but not via > jabber.sugarlabs.org Please fix file transfers. > * More speed and less lag. Jabber.sugarlabs.org is hosted in the > mit. While that is good if you are a student at the mit, it is very > laggy if you are in say Australia. I prefer near instant collaberation > provided by my local network. Even if you are at the mit, your wifi > router is still closer than jabber.sugarlabs.org (hopefully) jabber.sugarlabs.org could be moved to a better location or spread across geographies. > * Privacy. Users (specifically kids) aren't by default sharing their > names and colours online and inviting others to send them things. Please fix the mismatch between Sugar design assumptions and users? Sugar should more clearly indicate that a nickname and colours are shared. Also, Telepathy Salut is so not-private already, relying on packets that have visible contents, compared to Telepathy Gabble which uses SSL, that I think the privacy argument also works in reverse. > Is this ok? Will defaulting to use salut (local network) cause any > issues for anyone? Is this ok for the 108 cycle? On the other hand, the reason why jabber.sugarlabs.org was configured as a default was so that developers could fix problems with Sugar and Telepathy Gabble interactions. Removing this default will lower the visibility of those problems. My gut feel is that this is thrashing. We'll end up changing it back later. -- James Cameron http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Default Collaboration Server
Presumably the jabber server is set to point to the server on the school
server in your use case. This change would not impact that.
-walter
On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Tony Anderson
wrote:
> Currently, ejabberd is used on the school server (with gabble). Does this
> change mean that something must be done on the XO or schoolserver to enable
> collaboration (it is now automatic)? So far as I know, the XO uses salut
> for ad hoc links and gabble with ejabberd. Generally, if it isn't broken,
> don't fix it.
>
> Tony
>
>
> On 01/19/2016 01:27 AM, Samuel Greenfeld wrote:
>
> I don't see this as a change disabling gabble so much as a change where no
> default jabber server is specified. This forces salut (ad-hoc) to be used
> until a jabber server is specified.
>
> Given pretty much everyone who uses gabble outside of testing uses their
> own local jabber server and not Sugar Labs', there should be no user impact
> {apart from apps currently being broken with gabble staying broken until
> fixed}.
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Tony Anderson
> wrote:
>
>> This is probably a correct analysis for those in the US with online
>> broadband connection. However, at deployments which depend on the school
>> server (those without internet access), gabble is needed to enable all XOs
>> to collaborate. One of the first tests at a deployment is to ensure that
>> XOs connected to the schoolserver are visible to each other (i.e. that
>> gabble is working and not salut).
>>
>> Such a change needs a more thorough study. Should we limit collaboration
>> to XOs with a common router (partition the LAN)? Does collaboration with
>> salut work for XOs connected to the school server? Is it a reasonable
>> restriction at a deployment that only some XOs can chat?
>>
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On 01/18/2016 12:14 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Currently Sugar defaults to using "jabber.sugarlabs.org" as a
>> collaboration server in Sugar on a Stick and other GNU distros (fedora,
>> debian, etc.). However, I propose that we change the default (this
>> release!) to use the local network (telepathy salut). This is a feature is
>> that is already in sugar, and is used on XOs and normal computers.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> * Better activity support. Tubes are supported by salut, but not by
>> gabble (server based collab.). This means that activities that haven't
>> been ported this cycle (most of them) will still work under salut (proposed
>> default), but will not work under gabble (current default)
>>
>> * More contextual neighbourhood view. You only see people on your local
>> WiFi (or wired) network. This is more helpful for finding your friends
>> than the trawling the crowded jabber.sugarlabs.org neighbourhood.
>>
>> * More features. File transfers work via salut, but not via
>> jabber.sugarlabs.org
>>
>> * More speed and less lag. Jabber.sugarlabs.org is hosted in the mit.
>> While that is good if you are a student at the mit, it is very laggy if you
>> are in say Australia. I prefer near instant collaberation provided by my
>> local network. Even if you are at the mit, your wifi router is still
>> closer than jabber.sugarlabs.org (hopefully)
>>
>> * Privacy. Users (specifically kids) aren't by default sharing their
>> names and colours online and inviting others to send them things.
>>
>> Is this ok? Will defaulting to use salut (local network) cause any
>> issues for anyone? Is this ok for the 108 cycle?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sam
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing
>> listSugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.orghttp://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
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>
>
>
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>
--
Walter Bender
Sugar Labs
http://www.sugarlabs.org
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Default Collaboration Server
At least the way I would (minimally) consider implementing it, the default
Jabber server simply would be a blank string..
So either you would have to (1) choose "Register" from the home screen XO
character's right-click menu, (2) enter in an alternative Jabber/school
server's name in the Network Control Panel, or (3) programmatically insert
the alternative name into your XOs.
At one point I had an extension for OLPC OS builder to do the latter, as
well as replace the name "schoolserver" hardcoded in many OLPC utilities.
But said extension (if still around) probably is a bit out of date.
On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Tony Anderson
wrote:
> Currently, ejabberd is used on the school server (with gabble). Does this
> change mean that something must be done on the XO or schoolserver to enable
> collaboration (it is now automatic)? So far as I know, the XO uses salut
> for ad hoc links and gabble with ejabberd. Generally, if it isn't broken,
> don't fix it.
>
> Tony
>
>
> On 01/19/2016 01:27 AM, Samuel Greenfeld wrote:
>
> I don't see this as a change disabling gabble so much as a change where no
> default jabber server is specified. This forces salut (ad-hoc) to be used
> until a jabber server is specified.
>
> Given pretty much everyone who uses gabble outside of testing uses their
> own local jabber server and not Sugar Labs', there should be no user impact
> {apart from apps currently being broken with gabble staying broken until
> fixed}.
>
> On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Tony Anderson
> wrote:
>
>> This is probably a correct analysis for those in the US with online
>> broadband connection. However, at deployments which depend on the school
>> server (those without internet access), gabble is needed to enable all XOs
>> to collaborate. One of the first tests at a deployment is to ensure that
>> XOs connected to the schoolserver are visible to each other (i.e. that
>> gabble is working and not salut).
>>
>> Such a change needs a more thorough study. Should we limit collaboration
>> to XOs with a common router (partition the LAN)? Does collaboration with
>> salut work for XOs connected to the school server? Is it a reasonable
>> restriction at a deployment that only some XOs can chat?
>>
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> On 01/18/2016 12:14 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Currently Sugar defaults to using "jabber.sugarlabs.org" as a
>> collaboration server in Sugar on a Stick and other GNU distros (fedora,
>> debian, etc.). However, I propose that we change the default (this
>> release!) to use the local network (telepathy salut). This is a feature is
>> that is already in sugar, and is used on XOs and normal computers.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> * Better activity support. Tubes are supported by salut, but not by
>> gabble (server based collab.). This means that activities that haven't
>> been ported this cycle (most of them) will still work under salut (proposed
>> default), but will not work under gabble (current default)
>>
>> * More contextual neighbourhood view. You only see people on your local
>> WiFi (or wired) network. This is more helpful for finding your friends
>> than the trawling the crowded jabber.sugarlabs.org neighbourhood.
>>
>> * More features. File transfers work via salut, but not via
>> jabber.sugarlabs.org
>>
>> * More speed and less lag. Jabber.sugarlabs.org is hosted in the mit.
>> While that is good if you are a student at the mit, it is very laggy if you
>> are in say Australia. I prefer near instant collaberation provided by my
>> local network. Even if you are at the mit, your wifi router is still
>> closer than jabber.sugarlabs.org (hopefully)
>>
>> * Privacy. Users (specifically kids) aren't by default sharing their
>> names and colours online and inviting others to send them things.
>>
>> Is this ok? Will defaulting to use salut (local network) cause any
>> issues for anyone? Is this ok for the 108 cycle?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sam
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing
>> listSugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.orghttp://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Sugar-devel mailing list
>> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>>
>>
>
>
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>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Default Collaboration Server
I don't see this as a change disabling gabble so much as a change where no
default jabber server is specified. This forces salut (ad-hoc) to be used
until a jabber server is specified.
Given pretty much everyone who uses gabble outside of testing uses their
own local jabber server and not Sugar Labs', there should be no user impact
{apart from apps currently being broken with gabble staying broken until
fixed}.
On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Tony Anderson
wrote:
> This is probably a correct analysis for those in the US with online
> broadband connection. However, at deployments which depend on the school
> server (those without internet access), gabble is needed to enable all XOs
> to collaborate. One of the first tests at a deployment is to ensure that
> XOs connected to the schoolserver are visible to each other (i.e. that
> gabble is working and not salut).
>
> Such a change needs a more thorough study. Should we limit collaboration
> to XOs with a common router (partition the LAN)? Does collaboration with
> salut work for XOs connected to the school server? Is it a reasonable
> restriction at a deployment that only some XOs can chat?
>
>
> Tony
>
>
> On 01/18/2016 12:14 PM, Sam P. wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Currently Sugar defaults to using "jabber.sugarlabs.org" as a
> collaboration server in Sugar on a Stick and other GNU distros (fedora,
> debian, etc.). However, I propose that we change the default (this
> release!) to use the local network (telepathy salut). This is a feature is
> that is already in sugar, and is used on XOs and normal computers.
>
> Why?
>
> * Better activity support. Tubes are supported by salut, but not by
> gabble (server based collab.). This means that activities that haven't
> been ported this cycle (most of them) will still work under salut (proposed
> default), but will not work under gabble (current default)
>
> * More contextual neighbourhood view. You only see people on your local
> WiFi (or wired) network. This is more helpful for finding your friends
> than the trawling the crowded jabber.sugarlabs.org neighbourhood.
>
> * More features. File transfers work via salut, but not via
> jabber.sugarlabs.org
>
> * More speed and less lag. Jabber.sugarlabs.org is hosted in the mit.
> While that is good if you are a student at the mit, it is very laggy if you
> are in say Australia. I prefer near instant collaberation provided by my
> local network. Even if you are at the mit, your wifi router is still
> closer than jabber.sugarlabs.org (hopefully)
>
> * Privacy. Users (specifically kids) aren't by default sharing their
> names and colours online and inviting others to send them things.
>
> Is this ok? Will defaulting to use salut (local network) cause any issues
> for anyone? Is this ok for the 108 cycle?
>
> Thanks,
> Sam
>
>
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing
> listSugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.orghttp://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
>
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> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>
>
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[Sugar-devel] Default Collaboration Server
Hi All, Currently Sugar defaults to using "jabber.sugarlabs.org" as a collaboration server in Sugar on a Stick and other GNU distros (fedora, debian, etc.). However, I propose that we change the default (this release!) to use the local network (telepathy salut). This is a feature is that is already in sugar, and is used on XOs and normal computers. Why? * Better activity support. Tubes are supported by salut, but not by gabble (server based collab.). This means that activities that haven't been ported this cycle (most of them) will still work under salut (proposed default), but will not work under gabble (current default) * More contextual neighbourhood view. You only see people on your local WiFi (or wired) network. This is more helpful for finding your friends than the trawling the crowded jabber.sugarlabs.org neighbourhood. * More features. File transfers work via salut, but not via jabber.sugarlabs.org * More speed and less lag. Jabber.sugarlabs.org is hosted in the mit. While that is good if you are a student at the mit, it is very laggy if you are in say Australia. I prefer near instant collaberation provided by my local network. Even if you are at the mit, your wifi router is still closer than jabber.sugarlabs.org (hopefully) * Privacy. Users (specifically kids) aren't by default sharing their names and colours online and inviting others to send them things. Is this ok? Will defaulting to use salut (local network) cause any issues for anyone? Is this ok for the 108 cycle? Thanks, Sam ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
