Re: [Sugar-devel] Moving forward (Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 24, Issue 161)

2010-10-26 Thread Yioryos Asprobounitis
I did read with great interest both D. Farning's the stepping down and 
Moving forward as well as the public freeze that followed the first  one.

I'm not really in the field of ITC but I do know a bit about projects, 
particularly collaborative ones. Every development project to have a hope of 
success it needs
Clearly defined aims
Clearly defined road map
Clearly defined tools/methods of implementation
Clearly defined, tangible, milestones 
and annual _external_ evaluation.

Internally the project needs many tangible, evaluated stages/tasks so people 
that work on these have specific goals and, more important, tangible 
appreciation for their delivered goods.

I would think that SugarLabs has to work really hard in all of the above. (I 
will not go into specifics because criticizing is not the point now).

It is true the 99% of the development projects diverge one way or another from 
the original definitions. This may even include the Aims, though this is 
usually the last to change. But that's OK! As long as the process reflects 
accurately the realities on the ground, adapting to realities is a good thing.
This where DF's stakeholders and evaluation come into play. Otherwise 
everything looks like an exercise on map, where purity of code,  
innovative ideas, peer appreciation, adherence to principles, 
harmonization with upstream/downstream  etc, make take precedence over the 
goals of the project that is to actually  help _real life_ kids and teachers 
using Sugar to achieve a better education. Without their progress and needs in 
clear view and the evaluation from them on our deliverables, everything becomes 
irrelevant.  We operate in a vacuum, and pretty soon diverge and disintegrate.

To that extend I would think that any individual taking a leading role without 
the above thoroughly discussed and defined, will just burn-out and be wasted. 
The actual definition of the aforementioned issues is what will define the best 
person for the job. The additional benefit of an open discussion, is that the 
better person may still be in the sidelines because (s)he can not see any room 
to move, and surface through it. 

I do not really know if mailing lists are the best place to have these 
discussions. Again my experience from collaborative projects is that every 
successful one was preceded by an open meeting where participants openly 
discussed and defined (in writing) to a large extent goals, methods, 
milestones, tasks, evaluation and feedback. Then distal media where then used 
to further define the first draft into a project.

Maybe is time for a Reinventing-Sugar face to face meeting. 





 Message: 3
 Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 19:30:39 -0500
 From: David Farning dfarn...@gmail.com
 To: iaep i...@lists.sugarlabs.org,   
 sugar-devel
     sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
 Subject: [Sugar-devel] Moving forward.
 Message-ID:
    
 aanlktik=uecbzv6ahcm1alzvt1nbh7zojejymw+xw...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
 
 Yesterday I sent a rather blunt email on my concerns about
 the
 project.  It seems the observations resonated with
 many people while
 striking several nerves.  The volume of private mail
 or CCed mail (to
 a subset of the Sugar Labs participants) responses was
 unexpectedly
 high.
 
 The five main themes of the responses are:
 1. Could you possibility be any more abstract?
 2. Several of the points are valid.  Here are my
 responses/suggestions. This should be on a public thread,
 but someone
 else will have to start it.
 3. The core problem is trust.
 4. This conversation is like an iceberg, the 'community'
 only sees
 10% and not the other 90%.
 5. Dave you are just a jerk, now shut up.
 
 For better of worse, all five points are valid.  I am
 a bumbling jerk
 who is struggling to rebuild community trust without airing
 anyone's
 dirty laundry, including my own.
 
 To put all of my cards on the table:
 1. The ideas driving OLPC and Sugar are sound.
 2. Sugar Labs will continue to fragment until the issue of
 trust is resolved.
 3. Because of this, I left Sugar Labs to start a business
 which
 provides service and support for Sugar.
 4. I need Sugar to succeed. I need OLPC to succeed.
 5. I have been trying to operate 'under the radar' because
 some in
 Sugar Labs and OLPC have contacted individuals I am working
 with and
 'suggested' that they not work with me.
 
 Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.  I get
 pissed off about
 the lack of trust and community building in Sugar Labs, so
 I go off
 and form a fork which operates largely in secret.
 
 Two years ago, I suggested that the over sight board
 appoint Walter
 Bender as Executive Director of Sugar Labs so he would be
 able to
 speak on behalf of Sugar Labs.  He had three skills
 which Sugar Labs
 needed. 1) He was able to clearly and effectively
 communicate the
 goals of Sugar and the mission of Sugar Labs. 2) He was
 able to create
 an identity for Sugar Labs outside of OLPC. 3) He was a
 tireless
 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Moving forward (Sugar-devel Digest, Vol 24, Issue 161)

2010-10-26 Thread Marco Pesenti Gritti
On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Yioryos Asprobounitis
mavrot...@yahoo.com wrote:
 I'm not really in the field of ITC but I do know a bit about projects, 
 particularly collaborative ones. Every development project to have a hope of 
 success it needs
 Clearly defined aims
 Clearly defined road map
 Clearly defined tools/methods of implementation
 Clearly defined, tangible, milestones

Yes!

 To that extend I would think that any individual taking a leading role 
 without the above thoroughly discussed and defined, will just burn-out and be 
 wasted. The actual definition of the aforementioned issues is what will 
 define the best person for the job.

Yes.

 Maybe is time for a Reinventing-Sugar face to face meeting.

Yes.

I generally resist sending +1 emails but well, you just wrote a big
part of what was on my mind.

Marco
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