Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Jeff Elkner]

Thanks, Walter.  It wasn't that I ever really left the fold (at least
not in spirit), it was just that I wasn't teaching much programming
for the last several years.  That is changing in a big way now.  My
school is now offering high school students a dual-enrolled (high
school and community college credits at the same time) Associates
degree in CS concurrent with their high school diploma.  With
Virginia's fairly new K-12 mandatory CS standards, combined with the
effective victory of Python in the "Which programming language should
we use in our high school programming classes?" battle, I'm now in a
good place to resume work developing an educational program that uses
Python. Sugar, naturally, is a great fit for that.

Cheers,
Jeff


Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 7:09 PM Walter Bender  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 2:58 PM James Cameron  wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:00:07AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
>> > Thanks for the quick responses,  Chihurumnaya and James!  Yes,
>> > pressing F3 did the trick.
>>
>> Yay!
>>
>> > I should have remembered that from my OLPC days, but it has been so
>> > long since I've used Sugar.  Incidentally, I had forgotten that I
>> > lent my last two XO4's to a former student so that he could
>> > experiment with mesh networking.  He is finished with them and is
>> > returning them to me.  A quick look at:
>> >
>> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0
>> >
>> > reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
>> > Ubuntu 18.04,
>>
>> No, it's not for your XOs.
>>
>> > but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
>> > Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?
>>
>> No, I fixed it.
>>
>> > James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
>> > has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
>> > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the
>> > website instructions for creating your own microSD card are super
>> > easy using etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first
>> > boot from the resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that
>> > expands the file system to fill the card, so the steps are really
>> > just:
>> >
>> > 1. Install Etcher.
>> > 2. Download the Raspian image file.
>> > 3. Write it to the microSD card.
>> > 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
>> > 5. Enjoy your new operating system!
>> >
>> > That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it
>> > is cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI,
>> > and works like a charm.
>>
>> You most likely have more skills than the people I've trained in this
>> recipe.  We must think of the people who are prevented by disadvantage
>> from gaining these skills.
>>
>> But my question was answered, thanks.  I now know what level of skill
>> you are aiming for, and that means we can collaborate further.
>>
>> It's a how long is a piece of string argument.
>>
>> Given that level of skill, a *truly* beginner friendly installation
>> recipe that you have as a goal should be (a) install Raspbian, (b)
>> install Sugar.
>>
>> Step (a) is already well documented by the Raspberry Pi Foundation,
>> and many Raspberry Pi are purchased with preloaded Raspbian.
>>
>> Step (b) recipe is here;
>> https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/debian.md
>>
>> It works now for Debian Stretch, and when Debian Buster is released it
>> should be the same.
>>
>> Step (b) could be improved by writing a script to do the install, and
>> fix any of the bugs that haven't been fixed in the Debian packages.
>> Or the bugs might be reported to Debian instead.  I prefer the latter,
>> because the rising tide lifts all boats.
>>
>> If you begin to do this, you'll probably be the first person doing it
>> for years.  Thank you!
>>
>> > Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
>> > reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I
>> > was able to get to the main activity window and see the four
>> > activities.  Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.
>>
>> Also test the hidden activities.  You can see these with F3 Ctrl-2.
>>
>> > I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that
>> > you see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar.  I'm not
>> > going to try to push things onto Debian stretch.
>>
>> Reporting the problems against Debian Stretch can still be useful, as
>> the problem may not yet be fixed in Debian Buster, and the problem may
>> end up being fixed in Debian Stretch updates if it is sufficiently
>> severe or security related.
>>
>> But you are correct that reporting against Debian Buster is a good
>> thing to do as well.
>>
>> > Buster is looking like it will become the stable distro sometime
>> > this Summer.  After that settles would be a good time to talk about
>> > a deployment recipe for buster.  Since I'm a school teacher and
>> 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:09:26AM -0700, Alex Perez wrote:
> sh: 1: glib-compile-schemas: not found
> and
> gi.repository.GLib.Error: g-file-error-quark: Failed to open file “/home/
> jelkner/.sugar/default/org.laptop.WebActivity/data/schemas/gschemas.compiled”:
> open() failed: No such file or directory (4)
> 
> Try sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-dev and see if it sorts this
> out, although I'm not sure it will.

Jeff has opened https://bugs.debian.org/929251 for this.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 07:09:44PM -0400, Walter Bender wrote:
> James, I may have a patch (if I can find it) to the WeDo activity
> that I used to maintain with a major speed up. I'll try to dig it
> up. Or were you using the WeDo plugin?

Neither, sorry.  The state government equipment kit arrived with
preconfigured iPads.

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Walter Bender]

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 2:58 PM James Cameron  wrote:

> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:00:07AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> > Thanks for the quick responses,  Chihurumnaya and James!  Yes,
> > pressing F3 did the trick.
>
> Yay!
>
> > I should have remembered that from my OLPC days, but it has been so
> > long since I've used Sugar.  Incidentally, I had forgotten that I
> > lent my last two XO4's to a former student so that he could
> > experiment with mesh networking.  He is finished with them and is
> > returning them to me.  A quick look at:
> >
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0
> >
> > reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
> > Ubuntu 18.04,
>
> No, it's not for your XOs.
>
> > but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
> > Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?
>
> No, I fixed it.
>
> > James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
> > has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the
> > website instructions for creating your own microSD card are super
> > easy using etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first
> > boot from the resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that
> > expands the file system to fill the card, so the steps are really
> > just:
> >
> > 1. Install Etcher.
> > 2. Download the Raspian image file.
> > 3. Write it to the microSD card.
> > 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
> > 5. Enjoy your new operating system!
> >
> > That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it
> > is cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI,
> > and works like a charm.
>
> You most likely have more skills than the people I've trained in this
> recipe.  We must think of the people who are prevented by disadvantage
> from gaining these skills.
>
> But my question was answered, thanks.  I now know what level of skill
> you are aiming for, and that means we can collaborate further.
>
> It's a how long is a piece of string argument.
>
> Given that level of skill, a *truly* beginner friendly installation
> recipe that you have as a goal should be (a) install Raspbian, (b)
> install Sugar.
>
> Step (a) is already well documented by the Raspberry Pi Foundation,
> and many Raspberry Pi are purchased with preloaded Raspbian.
>
> Step (b) recipe is here;
> https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/debian.md
>
> It works now for Debian Stretch, and when Debian Buster is released it
> should be the same.
>
> Step (b) could be improved by writing a script to do the install, and
> fix any of the bugs that haven't been fixed in the Debian packages.
> Or the bugs might be reported to Debian instead.  I prefer the latter,
> because the rising tide lifts all boats.
>
> If you begin to do this, you'll probably be the first person doing it
> for years.  Thank you!
>
> > Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
> > reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I
> > was able to get to the main activity window and see the four
> > activities.  Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.
>
> Also test the hidden activities.  You can see these with F3 Ctrl-2.
>
> > I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that
> > you see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar.  I'm not
> > going to try to push things onto Debian stretch.
>
> Reporting the problems against Debian Stretch can still be useful, as
> the problem may not yet be fixed in Debian Buster, and the problem may
> end up being fixed in Debian Stretch updates if it is sufficiently
> severe or security related.
>
> But you are correct that reporting against Debian Buster is a good
> thing to do as well.
>
> > Buster is looking like it will become the stable distro sometime
> > this Summer.  After that settles would be a good time to talk about
> > a deployment recipe for buster.  Since I'm a school teacher and
> > won't have students during June, July and August, I'm really hoping
> > to ramp this up next September in any case.
>
> Great.  Looking forward to it.
>
> I spent a few hours yesterday in a volunteer teaching team applying
> prior Turtle Blocks learning to Lego WeDo kits.  Mixed class of three
> different grades, in a remote school.  The class teacher stayed
> involved, so we've got useful knowledge transfer happening.  Being in
> the southern hemisphere, I'll have students during those months, but
> it's only part time.
>
> > Thanks!
> > Jeff
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
>

Sorry to be late on this thread. Busy work week.

Jeff, great to have you back in the fold.

James, I may have a patch (if I can find it) to the WeDo activity that I
used to maintain with a major 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:00:07AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> Thanks for the quick responses,  Chihurumnaya and James!  Yes,
> pressing F3 did the trick.

Yay!

> I should have remembered that from my OLPC days, but it has been so
> long since I've used Sugar.  Incidentally, I had forgotten that I
> lent my last two XO4's to a former student so that he could
> experiment with mesh networking.  He is finished with them and is
> returning them to me.  A quick look at:
> 
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0
> 
> reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
> Ubuntu 18.04,

No, it's not for your XOs.

> but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
> Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?

No, I fixed it.

> James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
> has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the
> website instructions for creating your own microSD card are super
> easy using etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first
> boot from the resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that
> expands the file system to fill the card, so the steps are really
> just:
> 
> 1. Install Etcher.
> 2. Download the Raspian image file.
> 3. Write it to the microSD card.
> 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
> 5. Enjoy your new operating system!
> 
> That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it
> is cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI,
> and works like a charm.

You most likely have more skills than the people I've trained in this
recipe.  We must think of the people who are prevented by disadvantage
from gaining these skills.

But my question was answered, thanks.  I now know what level of skill
you are aiming for, and that means we can collaborate further.

It's a how long is a piece of string argument.

Given that level of skill, a *truly* beginner friendly installation
recipe that you have as a goal should be (a) install Raspbian, (b)
install Sugar.

Step (a) is already well documented by the Raspberry Pi Foundation,
and many Raspberry Pi are purchased with preloaded Raspbian.

Step (b) recipe is here;
https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/blob/master/docs/debian.md

It works now for Debian Stretch, and when Debian Buster is released it
should be the same.

Step (b) could be improved by writing a script to do the install, and
fix any of the bugs that haven't been fixed in the Debian packages.
Or the bugs might be reported to Debian instead.  I prefer the latter,
because the rising tide lifts all boats.

If you begin to do this, you'll probably be the first person doing it
for years.  Thank you!

> Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
> reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I
> was able to get to the main activity window and see the four
> activities.  Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.

Also test the hidden activities.  You can see these with F3 Ctrl-2.

> I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that
> you see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar.  I'm not
> going to try to push things onto Debian stretch.

Reporting the problems against Debian Stretch can still be useful, as
the problem may not yet be fixed in Debian Buster, and the problem may
end up being fixed in Debian Stretch updates if it is sufficiently
severe or security related.

But you are correct that reporting against Debian Buster is a good
thing to do as well.

> Buster is looking like it will become the stable distro sometime
> this Summer.  After that settles would be a good time to talk about
> a deployment recipe for buster.  Since I'm a school teacher and
> won't have students during June, July and August, I'm really hoping
> to ramp this up next September in any case.

Great.  Looking forward to it.

I spent a few hours yesterday in a volunteer teaching team applying
prior Turtle Blocks learning to Lego WeDo kits.  Mixed class of three
different grades, in a remote school.  The class teacher stayed
involved, so we've got useful knowledge transfer happening.  Being in
the southern hemisphere, I'll have students during those months, but
it's only part time.

> Thanks!
> Jeff

-- 
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http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

Yes.  https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 01:19:10PM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> Should I file an issue to add libgli2.0-dev as a dependency to the
> sugar-browse-activity package?  If so, where?
> 
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:15 PM Jeff Elkner  wrote:
> >
> > It did! ;-)
> >
> > On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:09 PM Alex Perez  wrote:
> > >
> > > There are two errors in this log file:
> > >
> > > sh: 1: glib-compile-schemas: not found
> > > and
> > > gi.repository.GLib.Error: g-file-error-quark: Failed to open file 
> > > “/home/jelkner/.sugar/default/org.laptop.WebActivity/data/schemas/gschemas.compiled”:
> > >  open() failed: No such file or directory (4)
> > >
> > >
> > > Try sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-dev and see if it sorts this out, 
> > > although I'm not sure it will.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/17/19 9:01 AM:
> > >
> > >
> > > When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started 
> > > the activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
> > > can you show us the activity log, it can be found in 
> > > `/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.
> > >
> > >

-- 
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Jeff Elkner]

Should I file an issue to add libgli2.0-dev as a dependency to the
sugar-browse-activity package?  If so, where?

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:15 PM Jeff Elkner  wrote:
>
> It did! ;-)
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:09 PM Alex Perez  wrote:
> >
> > There are two errors in this log file:
> >
> > sh: 1: glib-compile-schemas: not found
> > and
> > gi.repository.GLib.Error: g-file-error-quark: Failed to open file 
> > “/home/jelkner/.sugar/default/org.laptop.WebActivity/data/schemas/gschemas.compiled”:
> >  open() failed: No such file or directory (4)
> >
> >
> > Try sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-dev and see if it sorts this out, 
> > although I'm not sure it will.
> >
> >
> > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/17/19 9:01 AM:
> >
> >
> > When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the 
> > activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
> > can you show us the activity log, it can be found in 
> > `/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.
> >
> >
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Alex Perez]

There are two errors in this log file:

sh: 1: glib-compile-schemas: not found
and
gi.repository.GLib.Error: g-file-error-quark: Failed to open file 
“/home/jelkner/.sugar/default/org.laptop.WebActivity/data/schemas/gschemas.compiled”: 
open() failed: No such file or directory (4)



|Try sudo apt-get install libglib2.0-dev and see if it sorts this out, 
although I'm not sure it will.|

||

||


Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/17/19 9:01 AM:


When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started 
the activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
can you show us the activity log, it can be found in 
`/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Jeff Elkner]

I've attached the file.  ~ Jeff

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 11:41 AM Chihurumnaya Ibiam
 wrote:
>
> On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:00 PM Jeff Elkner  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the quick responses,  Chihurumnaya and James!  Yes,
>> pressing F3 did the trick.  I should have remembered that from my OLPC
>> days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar.  Incidentally, I
>> had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so
>> that he could experiment with mesh networking.  He is finished with
>> them and is returning them to me.  A quick look at:
>>
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0
>>
>> reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
>> Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
>> Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?
>>
>> James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
>> has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
>> purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the website
>> instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using
>> etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first boot from the
>> resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the
>> file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just:
>>
>> 1. Install Etcher.
>> 2. Download the Raspian image file.
>> 3. Write it to the microSD card.
>> 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
>> 5. Enjoy your new operating system!
>>
>> That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is
>> cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and
>> works like a charm.
>>
>> Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
>> reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was
>> able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities.
>> Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.
>
>
> When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the 
> activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
> can you show us the activity log, it can be found in 
> `/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.
>>
>>
>> I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you
>> see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar.  I'm not going to
>> try to push things onto Debian stretch.  Buster is looking like it
>> will become the stable distro sometime this Summer.  After that
>> settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for
>> buster.  Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during
>> June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next
>> September in any case.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Jeff
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
>
> Ibiam Chihurumnaya
> ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron  wrote:
>> >
>> > I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view.  Use the F3
>> > key, as I said.  See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch
>> > between views.
>> >
>> > Yes, what you are doing is useful.  For your assumed goal of *truly*
>> > begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements
>> > for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about.
>> >
>> > Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
>> > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS).  I've guided adults and
>> > children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very
>> > difficult and way outside the usual skills people have.
>> >
>> > I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and
>> > Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the
>> > Journal appearing first.  I've also removed the now unavailable
>> > packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues
>> > to work fine.  While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in
>> > 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and
>> > if you want that you're better off making your own packages or
>> > reporting bugs to Debian.
>> >
>> > Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages
>> > from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository.
>> >
>> > http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/
>> >
>> > When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use
>> > https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs
>> >
>> > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
>> > > OK, progress.  Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities
>> > > are not showing (see screenshot).  In the instant that the Desktop
>> > > displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4
>> > > activities.
>> > >
>> > > I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the
>> > > community, and that we are on the same page.  Here are my assumed
>> > > goals:
>> > >
>> > > 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as
>> > > a 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Chihurumnaya Ibiam]

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:00 PM Jeff Elkner  wrote:

> Thanks for the quick responses,  Chihurumnaya and James!  Yes,
> pressing F3 did the trick.  I should have remembered that from my OLPC
> days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar.  Incidentally, I
> had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so
> that he could experiment with mesh networking.  He is finished with
> them and is returning them to me.  A quick look at:
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0
>
> reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
> Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
> Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?
>
> James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
> has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the website
> instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using
> etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first boot from the
> resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the
> file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just:
>
> 1. Install Etcher.
> 2. Download the Raspian image file.
> 3. Write it to the microSD card.
> 4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
> 5. Enjoy your new operating system!
>
> That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is
> cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and
> works like a charm.
>
> Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
> reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was
> able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities.
> Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.
>

When you say the browse activity didn't work, I'm assuming you started the
activity and it showed a "Failed to start" message,
can you show us the activity log, it can be found in
`/home/user/.sugar/default/logs/org.laptop.WebActivity-1.log`.

>
> I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you
> see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar.  I'm not going to
> try to push things onto Debian stretch.  Buster is looking like it
> will become the stable distro sometime this Summer.  After that
> settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for
> buster.  Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during
> June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next
> September in any case.
>
> Thanks!
> Jeff
>

Thanks.


-- 

Ibiam Chihurumnaya
ibiamchihurumn...@gmail.com


>
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron  wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view.  Use the F3
> > key, as I said.  See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch
> > between views.
> >
> > Yes, what you are doing is useful.  For your assumed goal of *truly*
> > begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements
> > for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about.
> >
> > Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> > purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS).  I've guided adults and
> > children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very
> > difficult and way outside the usual skills people have.
> >
> > I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and
> > Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the
> > Journal appearing first.  I've also removed the now unavailable
> > packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues
> > to work fine.  While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in
> > 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and
> > if you want that you're better off making your own packages or
> > reporting bugs to Debian.
> >
> > Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages
> > from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository.
> >
> > http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/
> >
> > When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use
> > https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs
> >
> > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> > > OK, progress.  Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities
> > > are not showing (see screenshot).  In the instant that the Desktop
> > > displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4
> > > activities.
> > >
> > > I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the
> > > community, and that we are on the same page.  Here are my assumed
> > > goals:
> > >
> > > 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as
> > > a wonderful side effect) as the target platform.
> > > 2. A  *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a
> > > working Sugar desktop on Raspbian.
> > >
> > > Once we have that available, I could begin 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Alex Perez]

Jeff,

Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/17/19 8:00 AM:

...vreveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
Ubuntu18.04,  but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?


No, OLPC OS 18.04 will not flash to Any original XO (XO-1, XO-1.5, 
XO-1.75, or XO-4) machines. At the URL you cited, the supported 
platforms are stated as "The target platforms are NL3 and ED20" which is 
exclusive of any of the original XO laptops. Furthermore, this 
(official) version does not suffer from the Metacity bug.


OLPC OS 13.2.10  is the latest 
official version from OLPC for all XO laptops.


OLPC OS 18.04 is likely to work on unsupported hardware, however you 
will not be able to get any help from OLPC, nor from Sugar Labs, if you 
choose to go that route, as we have no control over the composition of 
this customized distribution.

James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the website
instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using
etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first boot from the
resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the
file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just:


Agreed, this is not hard for most people to do, even if it may be 
unfamiliar territory, especially the first time. Using something like 
Etcher, Fedora Image Writer (for Fedora, obviously) takes away most of 
the uncertainty for first time users.


Regards,
Alex Perez
___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Jeff Elkner]

Thanks for the quick responses,  Chihurumnaya and James!  Yes,
pressing F3 did the trick.  I should have remembered that from my OLPC
days, but it has been so long since I've used Sugar.  Incidentally, I
had forgotten that I lent my last two XO4's to a former student so
that he could experiment with mesh networking.  He is finished with
them and is returning them to me.  A quick look at:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/18.04.0

reveals that the latest Sugar update for my XO's will be running
Ubuntu 18.04, but also that it has the same issues I'm seeing in the
Debian Sid VM with Metacity, I guess?

James, I can't agree with you from personal experience that "Rasbian
has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS)."  On the contrary, the website
instructions for creating your own microSD card are super easy using
etcher (https://www.balena.io/etcher/).  When you first boot from the
resulting microSD, it automatically runs a script that expands the
file system to fill the card, so the steps are really just:

1. Install Etcher.
2. Download the Raspian image file.
3. Write it to the microSD card.
4. Put it in your Raspberry Pi, turn it on, and follow directions.
5. Enjoy your new operating system!

That's precisely what I mean by a "user friendly recipe", since it is
cross platform, does not even require knowledge of the Unix CLI, and
works like a charm.

Last thing to report -- After Chihurumnaya so kindly and patiently
reminded my about F3 (which I really should have remembered :-(, I was
able to get to the main activity window and see the four activities.
Three of them worked, but the browse activity did not.

I think is is really important to fix the Metacity problem so that you
see the proper welcome screen when you launch Sugar.  I'm not going to
try to push things onto Debian stretch.  Buster is looking like it
will become the stable distro sometime this Summer.  After that
settles would be a good time to talk about a deployment recipe for
buster.  Since I'm a school teacher and won't have students during
June, July and August, I'm really hoping to ramp this up next
September in any case.

Thanks!
Jeff

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 6:07 PM James Cameron  wrote:
>
> I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view.  Use the F3
> key, as I said.  See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch
> between views.
>
> Yes, what you are doing is useful.  For your assumed goal of *truly*
> begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements
> for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about.
>
> Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
> purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS).  I've guided adults and
> children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very
> difficult and way outside the usual skills people have.
>
> I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and
> Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the
> Journal appearing first.  I've also removed the now unavailable
> packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues
> to work fine.  While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in
> 0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and
> if you want that you're better off making your own packages or
> reporting bugs to Debian.
>
> Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages
> from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository.
>
> http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/
>
> When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use
> https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs
>
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> > OK, progress.  Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities
> > are not showing (see screenshot).  In the instant that the Desktop
> > displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4
> > activities.
> >
> > I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the
> > community, and that we are on the same page.  Here are my assumed
> > goals:
> >
> > 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as
> > a wonderful side effect) as the target platform.
> > 2. A  *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a
> > working Sugar desktop on Raspbian.
> >
> > Once we have that available, I could begin to promote Sugar as a
> > learning platform within my school district, developing OER
> > educational curricula for it.
> >
> > I feel like we have a timely opportunity. Python has won the day, and
> > after years (I started using Python in 1999) of being somewhat of a
> > pariah within my school system for my insistence on teaching with it,
> > I now actually look prescient and am sought after for advice.  So if
> > we can get a working system together, I think I could round up both
> > students and staff to contribute, helping to grow the 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 10:24:21PM +1000, James Cameron wrote:
> It's a problem with Metacity, which is ignoring the Journal's
> request to be iconified.

Debian experimental metacity package version 3.32.0-1 contains my fix
for this problem.

After downloading and installing the package on Debian buster, and
restarting lightdm, the Sugar home view appears with the Journal
hidden.

If anyone needs it fixed on Debian before release, report a release
critical bug against the metacity package about it, and be sure to
mention the version that fixes it.  I'm not sure if the problem
qualifies as release critical though, since you can workaround it with
the F3 key.

Perhaps the Journal should include a button for the home view.  ;-)

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
___
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

I agree with Ibiam, your screenshot is not the home view.  Use the F3
key, as I said.  See https://help.sugarlabs.org/ for how to switch
between views.

Yes, what you are doing is useful.  For your assumed goal of *truly*
begginer-friendly recipe, I'd like you to write a list of requirements
for that recipe so we know the level of skill you are talking about.

Rasbian has a very high barrier to entry unless the microSD card is
purchased already loaded (e.g. NOOBS).  I've guided adults and
children through the download and writing of Rasbian and it is very
difficult and way outside the usual skills people have.

I've just now tested upgrading a Debian stable VM to testing, and
Sugar 0.112 worked fine, subject to that Metacity problem of the
Journal appearing first.  I've also removed the now unavailable
packages by using apt-show-versions to identify them, and it continues
to work fine.  While it is version 0.112, but there's not much in
0.113 that is critical to have unless you want every little fix; and
if you want that you're better off making your own packages or
reporting bugs to Debian.

Raspbian "stretch" release has Sugar 0.110, and the 0.112 packages
from Debian have been passing into Raspbian repository.

http://raspbian.raspberrypi.org/raspbian/pool/main/s/sugar-toolkit-gtk3/

When you want something to move faster from Debian to Raspbian, use
https://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianBugs

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:48:28AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> OK, progress.  Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities
> are not showing (see screenshot).  In the instant that the Desktop
> displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4
> activities.
> 
> I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the
> community, and that we are on the same page.  Here are my assumed
> goals:
> 
> 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as
> a wonderful side effect) as the target platform.
> 2. A  *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a
> working Sugar desktop on Raspbian.
> 
> Once we have that available, I could begin to promote Sugar as a
> learning platform within my school district, developing OER
> educational curricula for it.
> 
> I feel like we have a timely opportunity. Python has won the day, and
> after years (I started using Python in 1999) of being somewhat of a
> pariah within my school system for my insistence on teaching with it,
> I now actually look prescient and am sought after for advice.  So if
> we can get a working system together, I think I could round up both
> students and staff to contribute, helping to grow the Sugar community.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jeff
> 
> 
> Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> 
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM James Cameron  wrote:
> >
> > It's a problem with Metacity, which is ignoring the Journal's request
> > to be iconified.
> >
> > Press the F3 key.
> >
> > Or press the F6 key then click on the home view icon.
> >
> > Or put the mouse on the edge (difficult in a typical VM).
> >
> > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:08:26AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> > > Hi James and Alex,
> > >
> > > I've setup a VM with Sid and ran:
> > >
> > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
> > >
> > > which gave me the same problem I had on testing - I only see the
> > > journal and can't find the main Sugar desktop window (note: I did see
> > > it flash briefly on the screen before it disappeared).
> > >
> > > I've attached two package_list files that come from running:
> > >
> > > $ dpkg -l | grep sugar > package_llst.txt
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > $ dpkg -l | grep sucrose > package_llst2.txt
> > >
> > > Please let me know what I should do next.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:48 AM James Cameron  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > python-sugar3_0.112-3 has migrated to testing just now.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:56:03AM -0700, Alex Perez wrote:
> > > > > Jeff,
> > > > >
> > > > > Most, if not all, of the Sugar-specific bugs that are present in 
> > > > > Debian
> > > > > should be fixed if you use the "0.112-3" (the 3 is critically 
> > > > > important)
> > > > > Debian packages from the _unstable_ Debian repo. They have not yet 
> > > > > been
> > > > > promoted to testing, and will likely not be included in Debian 10 
> > > > > when it is
> > > > > released, as it is late in the package freeze process.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you have a few options here...the easiest thing to do would be to 
> > > > > run an
> > > > > entire "unstable" install of Debian, since you will get these 
> > > > > packages by
> > > > > default, but otherwise, you have to configure Apt with the unstable 
> > > > > repo,
> > > > > and then use package pinning. This is documented at 
> > > > > https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian.
> > > > >
> > 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Chihurumnaya Ibiam]

Hi Jeff,

The screenshot you sent shows the neighborhood view and not the home view,
try using F3 to switch to the home view where you'll see the activities.

On Thu, May 16, 2019, 1:48 PM Jeff Elkner  wrote:

> OK, progress.  Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities
> are not showing (see screenshot).  In the instant that the Desktop
> displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4
> activities.
>
> I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the
> community, and that we are on the same page.  Here are my assumed
> goals:
>
> 1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as
> a wonderful side effect) as the target platform.
> 2. A  *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a
> working Sugar desktop on Raspbian.
>
> Once we have that available, I could begin to promote Sugar as a
> learning platform within my school district, developing OER
> educational curricula for it.
>
> I feel like we have a timely opportunity. Python has won the day, and
> after years (I started using Python in 1999) of being somewhat of a
> pariah within my school system for my insistence on teaching with it,
> I now actually look prescient and am sought after for advice.  So if
> we can get a working system together, I think I could round up both
> students and staff to contribute, helping to grow the Sugar community.
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff
>
>
> Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
>
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM James Cameron  wrote:
> >
> > It's a problem with Metacity, which is ignoring the Journal's request
> > to be iconified.
> >
> > Press the F3 key.
> >
> > Or press the F6 key then click on the home view icon.
> >
> > Or put the mouse on the edge (difficult in a typical VM).
> >
> > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:08:26AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> > > Hi James and Alex,
> > >
> > > I've setup a VM with Sid and ran:
> > >
> > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
> > >
> > > which gave me the same problem I had on testing - I only see the
> > > journal and can't find the main Sugar desktop window (note: I did see
> > > it flash briefly on the screen before it disappeared).
> > >
> > > I've attached two package_list files that come from running:
> > >
> > > $ dpkg -l | grep sugar > package_llst.txt
> > >
> > > and
> > >
> > > $ dpkg -l | grep sucrose > package_llst2.txt
> > >
> > > Please let me know what I should do next.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:48 AM James Cameron 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > python-sugar3_0.112-3 has migrated to testing just now.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:56:03AM -0700, Alex Perez wrote:
> > > > > Jeff,
> > > > >
> > > > > Most, if not all, of the Sugar-specific bugs that are present in
> Debian
> > > > > should be fixed if you use the "0.112-3" (the 3 is critically
> important)
> > > > > Debian packages from the _unstable_ Debian repo. They have not yet
> been
> > > > > promoted to testing, and will likely not be included in Debian 10
> when it is
> > > > > released, as it is late in the package freeze process.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, you have a few options here...the easiest thing to do would be
> to run an
> > > > > entire "unstable" install of Debian, since you will get these
> packages by
> > > > > default, but otherwise, you have to configure Apt with the
> unstable repo,
> > > > > and then use package pinning. This is documented at
> https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian
> .
> > > > >
> > > > > See https://packages.debian.org/buster/sucrose for a list of
> these packages,
> > > > > and https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#Installation can
> explain how to
> > > > > enable the unstable apt repo on a stable or testing install.
> > > > >
> > > > > This may also be of use
> https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/15/19 9:54 AM:
> > > > > > Great to meet you (virtually), Alex and James.  I'm a high
> school /
> > > > > > community college teacher in Arlington, Virginia who was an early
> > > > > > member of the OLPC community here in the DC area.  I run Debian
> in my
> > > > > > classroom and would very much be interested in using the Sugar
> desktop
> > > > > > to work on that platform.  It doesn't currently seem to work.  I
> don't
> > > > > > have the capacity to fix it myself, but I can provide reliable
> testing
> > > > > > and feedback in an educational setting should that be of use to
> you.
> > > > > > I'm hoping to rejoin the Sugar community once it is in a state
> where
> > > > > > it can be used both in my classroom and on Raspberry Pi's.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > > Jeff Elkner
> > > > > > Arlington Career Center
> > > > > > Arlington, VA
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Jeff Elkner]

OK, progress.  Pressing F6 lets me select the Desktop, but activities
are not showing (see screenshot).  In the instant that the Desktop
displayed before switching to the journal, I saw at least 4
activities.

I'd also like to check-in that what I am doing is useful to the
community, and that we are on the same page.  Here are my assumed
goals:

1. Raspberry Pi's running Raspbian (with Debian desktops in general as
a wonderful side effect) as the target platform.
2. A  *truly* beginner friendly installation recipe that leads to a
working Sugar desktop on Raspbian.

Once we have that available, I could begin to promote Sugar as a
learning platform within my school district, developing OER
educational curricula for it.

I feel like we have a timely opportunity. Python has won the day, and
after years (I started using Python in 1999) of being somewhat of a
pariah within my school system for my insistence on teaching with it,
I now actually look prescient and am sought after for advice.  So if
we can get a working system together, I think I could round up both
students and staff to contribute, helping to grow the Sugar community.

Cheers,
Jeff


Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 8:24 AM James Cameron  wrote:
>
> It's a problem with Metacity, which is ignoring the Journal's request
> to be iconified.
>
> Press the F3 key.
>
> Or press the F6 key then click on the home view icon.
>
> Or put the mouse on the edge (difficult in a typical VM).
>
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:08:26AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> > Hi James and Alex,
> >
> > I've setup a VM with Sid and ran:
> >
> > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
> >
> > which gave me the same problem I had on testing - I only see the
> > journal and can't find the main Sugar desktop window (note: I did see
> > it flash briefly on the screen before it disappeared).
> >
> > I've attached two package_list files that come from running:
> >
> > $ dpkg -l | grep sugar > package_llst.txt
> >
> > and
> >
> > $ dpkg -l | grep sucrose > package_llst2.txt
> >
> > Please let me know what I should do next.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:48 AM James Cameron  wrote:
> > >
> > > python-sugar3_0.112-3 has migrated to testing just now.
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:56:03AM -0700, Alex Perez wrote:
> > > > Jeff,
> > > >
> > > > Most, if not all, of the Sugar-specific bugs that are present in Debian
> > > > should be fixed if you use the "0.112-3" (the 3 is critically important)
> > > > Debian packages from the _unstable_ Debian repo. They have not yet been
> > > > promoted to testing, and will likely not be included in Debian 10 when 
> > > > it is
> > > > released, as it is late in the package freeze process.
> > > >
> > > > So, you have a few options here...the easiest thing to do would be to 
> > > > run an
> > > > entire "unstable" install of Debian, since you will get these packages 
> > > > by
> > > > default, but otherwise, you have to configure Apt with the unstable 
> > > > repo,
> > > > and then use package pinning. This is documented at 
> > > > https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian.
> > > >
> > > > See https://packages.debian.org/buster/sucrose for a list of these 
> > > > packages,
> > > > and https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#Installation can explain how 
> > > > to
> > > > enable the unstable apt repo on a stable or testing install.
> > > >
> > > > This may also be of use 
> > > > https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/15/19 9:54 AM:
> > > > > Great to meet you (virtually), Alex and James.  I'm a high school /
> > > > > community college teacher in Arlington, Virginia who was an early
> > > > > member of the OLPC community here in the DC area.  I run Debian in my
> > > > > classroom and would very much be interested in using the Sugar desktop
> > > > > to work on that platform.  It doesn't currently seem to work.  I don't
> > > > > have the capacity to fix it myself, but I can provide reliable testing
> > > > > and feedback in an educational setting should that be of use to you.
> > > > > I'm hoping to rejoin the Sugar community once it is in a state where
> > > > > it can be used both in my classroom and on Raspberry Pi's.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > Jeff Elkner
> > > > > Arlington Career Center
> > > > > Arlington, VA
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 12:39 PM Samson Goddy  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Hello Alex and James,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide Jeff on how 
> > > > > > to get started?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner  
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Dear Sugar Labs Devs,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > 

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

It's a problem with Metacity, which is ignoring the Journal's request
to be iconified.

Press the F3 key.

Or press the F6 key then click on the home view icon.

Or put the mouse on the edge (difficult in a typical VM).

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 08:08:26AM -0400, Jeff Elkner wrote:
> Hi James and Alex,
> 
> I've setup a VM with Sid and ran:
> 
> $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
> 
> which gave me the same problem I had on testing - I only see the
> journal and can't find the main Sugar desktop window (note: I did see
> it flash briefly on the screen before it disappeared).
> 
> I've attached two package_list files that come from running:
> 
> $ dpkg -l | grep sugar > package_llst.txt
> 
> and
> 
> $ dpkg -l | grep sucrose > package_llst2.txt
> 
> Please let me know what I should do next.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Jeff
> 
> Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:48 AM James Cameron  wrote:
> >
> > python-sugar3_0.112-3 has migrated to testing just now.
> >
> > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:56:03AM -0700, Alex Perez wrote:
> > > Jeff,
> > >
> > > Most, if not all, of the Sugar-specific bugs that are present in Debian
> > > should be fixed if you use the "0.112-3" (the 3 is critically important)
> > > Debian packages from the _unstable_ Debian repo. They have not yet been
> > > promoted to testing, and will likely not be included in Debian 10 when it 
> > > is
> > > released, as it is late in the package freeze process.
> > >
> > > So, you have a few options here...the easiest thing to do would be to run 
> > > an
> > > entire "unstable" install of Debian, since you will get these packages by
> > > default, but otherwise, you have to configure Apt with the unstable repo,
> > > and then use package pinning. This is documented at 
> > > https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian.
> > >
> > > See https://packages.debian.org/buster/sucrose for a list of these 
> > > packages,
> > > and https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#Installation can explain how to
> > > enable the unstable apt repo on a stable or testing install.
> > >
> > > This may also be of use 
> > > https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/15/19 9:54 AM:
> > > > Great to meet you (virtually), Alex and James.  I'm a high school /
> > > > community college teacher in Arlington, Virginia who was an early
> > > > member of the OLPC community here in the DC area.  I run Debian in my
> > > > classroom and would very much be interested in using the Sugar desktop
> > > > to work on that platform.  It doesn't currently seem to work.  I don't
> > > > have the capacity to fix it myself, but I can provide reliable testing
> > > > and feedback in an educational setting should that be of use to you.
> > > > I'm hoping to rejoin the Sugar community once it is in a state where
> > > > it can be used both in my classroom and on Raspberry Pi's.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > Jeff Elkner
> > > > Arlington Career Center
> > > > Arlington, VA
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 12:39 PM Samson Goddy  
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Hello Alex and James,
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide Jeff on how 
> > > > > to get started?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Dear Sugar Labs Devs,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am a high school / community college computer science teacher in
> > > > > > Arlington Virginia who was an active member of the OLPC project for
> > > > > > years and who would like to rejoin the community.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am convinced being able to run the Sugar desktop on the same
> > > > > > underlying OS (Debian) as Raspbian uses is the key to that working 
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I tried creating a basic buster install and then running:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The result is not a usable Sugar installation.  I am most eager to
> > > > > > participate as a tester, power user, and curriculum developer, but I
> > > > > > need to start with a working system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jeff Elkner
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> > >
> >
> > --
> > James Cameron
> > http://quozl.netrek.org/

> ii  gir1.2-sugarext-1.0   0.112-3 
> amd64Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit GObject introspection
> ii  libsugarext-data  0.112-3 
> all  Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit common files
> ii  libsugarext0:amd640.112-3 
> amd64Sugar Learning Platform - toolkit runtime library
> ii  python-sugar3  

Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

I know, thanks.  My question is where was Jeff's original post?  Jeff wasn't 
subscribed and the post isn't in the archives of the mailing list, so I'm 
asking how it got to you.  Perhaps there's something we need to change so we 
don't rely on you alone.  If it was private to you, then of course I'd miss it. 
 I also want to make sure you know where I can be found.

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:00:23PM -0700, Samson Goddy wrote:
> Hello James,
> 
> I think you replied to the thread already.
> 
> On Wed, May 15, 2019, 9:59 PM James Cameron <[1]qu...@laptop.org> wrote:
> 
> Hey Samson, yes, missed it, where was it?
> 
> On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 09:39:30AM -0700, Samson Goddy wrote:
> > Hello Alex and James,
> >
> > I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide Jeff on how to
> get
> > started?
> >
> > On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner <[1][2]jeff.elk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >     Dear Sugar Labs Devs,
> >
> >     I am a high school / community college computer science teacher in
> >     Arlington Virginia who was an active member of the OLPC project for
> >     years and who would like to rejoin the community.
> >
> >     I am convinced being able to run the Sugar desktop on the same
> >     underlying OS (Debian) as Raspbian uses is the key to that working
> for
> >     me.
> >
> >     I tried creating a basic buster install and then running:
> >
> >     $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
> >
> >     The result is not a usable Sugar installation.  I am most eager to
> >     participate as a tester, power user, and curriculum developer, but I
> >     need to start with a working system.
> >
> >     Thanks!
> >
> >     Jeff Elkner
> >
> >     Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> >
> > References:
> >
> > [1] mailto:[3]jeff.elk...@gmail.com
> 
> --
> James Cameron
> [4]http://quozl.netrek.org/
> 
> References:
> 
> [1] mailto:qu...@laptop.org
> [2] mailto:jeff.elk...@gmail.com
> [3] mailto:jeff.elk...@gmail.com
> [4] http://quozl.netrek.org/

> ___
> Sugar-devel mailing list
> Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel


-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Samson Goddy]

Hello James,

I think you replied to the thread already.


On Wed, May 15, 2019, 9:59 PM James Cameron  wrote:

> Hey Samson, yes, missed it, where was it?
>
> On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 09:39:30AM -0700, Samson Goddy wrote:
> > Hello Alex and James,
> >
> > I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide Jeff on how to
> get
> > started?
> >
> > On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner <[1]jeff.elk...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Sugar Labs Devs,
> >
> > I am a high school / community college computer science teacher in
> > Arlington Virginia who was an active member of the OLPC project for
> > years and who would like to rejoin the community.
> >
> > I am convinced being able to run the Sugar desktop on the same
> > underlying OS (Debian) as Raspbian uses is the key to that working
> for
> > me.
> >
> > I tried creating a basic buster install and then running:
> >
> > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
> >
> > The result is not a usable Sugar installation.  I am most eager to
> > participate as a tester, power user, and curriculum developer, but I
> > need to start with a working system.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Jeff Elkner
> >
> > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> >
> > References:
> >
> > [1] mailto:jeff.elk...@gmail.com
>
> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.netrek.org/
>
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

Hey Samson, yes, missed it, where was it?

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 09:39:30AM -0700, Samson Goddy wrote:
> Hello Alex and James,
> 
> I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide Jeff on how to get
> started?
> 
> On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner <[1]jeff.elk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Sugar Labs Devs,
> 
> I am a high school / community college computer science teacher in
> Arlington Virginia who was an active member of the OLPC project for
> years and who would like to rejoin the community.
> 
> I am convinced being able to run the Sugar desktop on the same
> underlying OS (Debian) as Raspbian uses is the key to that working for
> me.
> 
> I tried creating a basic buster install and then running:
> 
> $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
> 
> The result is not a usable Sugar installation.  I am most eager to
> participate as a tester, power user, and curriculum developer, but I
> need to start with a working system.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Jeff Elkner
> 
> Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> 
> References:
> 
> [1] mailto:jeff.elk...@gmail.com

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[James Cameron]

python-sugar3_0.112-3 has migrated to testing just now.

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 10:56:03AM -0700, Alex Perez wrote:
> Jeff,
> 
> Most, if not all, of the Sugar-specific bugs that are present in Debian
> should be fixed if you use the "0.112-3" (the 3 is critically important)
> Debian packages from the _unstable_ Debian repo. They have not yet been
> promoted to testing, and will likely not be included in Debian 10 when it is
> released, as it is late in the package freeze process.
> 
> So, you have a few options here...the easiest thing to do would be to run an
> entire "unstable" install of Debian, since you will get these packages by
> default, but otherwise, you have to configure Apt with the unstable repo,
> and then use package pinning. This is documented at 
> https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian.
> 
> See https://packages.debian.org/buster/sucrose for a list of these packages,
> and https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#Installation can explain how to
> enable the unstable apt repo on a stable or testing install.
> 
> This may also be of use 
> https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing
> 
> 
> Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/15/19 9:54 AM:
> > Great to meet you (virtually), Alex and James.  I'm a high school /
> > community college teacher in Arlington, Virginia who was an early
> > member of the OLPC community here in the DC area.  I run Debian in my
> > classroom and would very much be interested in using the Sugar desktop
> > to work on that platform.  It doesn't currently seem to work.  I don't
> > have the capacity to fix it myself, but I can provide reliable testing
> > and feedback in an educational setting should that be of use to you.
> > I'm hoping to rejoin the Sugar community once it is in a state where
> > it can be used both in my classroom and on Raspberry Pi's.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > Jeff Elkner
> > Arlington Career Center
> > Arlington, VA
> > 
> > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 12:39 PM Samson Goddy  wrote:
> > > Hello Alex and James,
> > > 
> > > I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide Jeff on how to 
> > > get started?
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner  wrote:
> > > > Dear Sugar Labs Devs,
> > > > 
> > > > I am a high school / community college computer science teacher in
> > > > Arlington Virginia who was an active member of the OLPC project for
> > > > years and who would like to rejoin the community.
> > > > 
> > > > I am convinced being able to run the Sugar desktop on the same
> > > > underlying OS (Debian) as Raspbian uses is the key to that working for
> > > > me.
> > > > 
> > > > I tried creating a basic buster install and then running:
> > > > 
> > > > $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
> > > > 
> > > > The result is not a usable Sugar installation.  I am most eager to
> > > > participate as a tester, power user, and curriculum developer, but I
> > > > need to start with a working system.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks!
> > > > 
> > > > Jeff Elkner
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
> 

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Alex Perez]

Jeff,

Most, if not all, of the Sugar-specific bugs that are present in Debian 
should be fixed if you use the "0.112-3" (the 3 is critically important) 
Debian packages from the _unstable_ Debian repo. They have not yet been 
promoted to testing, and will likely not be included in Debian 10 when 
it is released, as it is late in the package freeze process.


So, you have a few options here...the easiest thing to do would be to 
run an entire "unstable" install of Debian, since you will get these 
packages by default, but otherwise, you have to configure Apt with the 
unstable repo, and then use package pinning. This is documented at 
https://serverfault.com/questions/371383/install-whitelist-of-packages-using-unstable-in-debian.


See https://packages.debian.org/buster/sucrose for a list of these 
packages, and https://wiki.debian.org/DebianUnstable#Installation can 
explain how to enable the unstable apt repo on a stable or testing install.


This may also be of use 
https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing



Jeff Elkner wrote on 5/15/19 9:54 AM:

Great to meet you (virtually), Alex and James.  I'm a high school /
community college teacher in Arlington, Virginia who was an early
member of the OLPC community here in the DC area.  I run Debian in my
classroom and would very much be interested in using the Sugar desktop
to work on that platform.  It doesn't currently seem to work.  I don't
have the capacity to fix it myself, but I can provide reliable testing
and feedback in an educational setting should that be of use to you.
I'm hoping to rejoin the Sugar community once it is in a state where
it can be used both in my classroom and on Raspberry Pi's.

Thanks!
Jeff Elkner
Arlington Career Center
Arlington, VA

On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 12:39 PM Samson Goddy  wrote:

Hello Alex and James,

I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide Jeff on how to get 
started?



On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner  wrote:

Dear Sugar Labs Devs,

I am a high school / community college computer science teacher in
Arlington Virginia who was an active member of the OLPC project for
years and who would like to rejoin the community.

I am convinced being able to run the Sugar desktop on the same
underlying OS (Debian) as Raspbian uses is the key to that working for
me.

I tried creating a basic buster install and then running:

$ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm

The result is not a usable Sugar installation.  I am most eager to
participate as a tester, power user, and curriculum developer, but I
need to start with a working system.

Thanks!

Jeff Elkner


Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Sugar on Debian 10 (Buster)?

[Samson Goddy]

Hello Alex and James,

I guess you both miss this thread. Can you please guide Jeff on how to get
started?



On Fri, May 10, 2019, 8:14 AM Jeff Elkner  wrote:

> Dear Sugar Labs Devs,
>
> I am a high school / community college computer science teacher in
> Arlington Virginia who was an active member of the OLPC project for
> years and who would like to rejoin the community.
>
> I am convinced being able to run the Sugar desktop on the same
> underlying OS (Debian) as Raspbian uses is the key to that working for
> me.
>
> I tried creating a basic buster install and then running:
>
> $ sudo apt install sugar sucrose lightdm
>
> The result is not a usable Sugar installation.  I am most eager to
> participate as a tester, power user, and curriculum developer, but I
> need to start with a working system.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jeff Elkner
>
>
> Let's work together to create a just and sustainable world!
>
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