Re: [Sugar-devel] The Sugar Network technical implementation overview
On 19 December 2011 23:19, Aleksey Lim alsr...@activitycentral.org wrote: IMHO, you will need to get a lot more concrete than that if you want anyone to understand what you are trying to do. The brief info, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Architecture#Functioning Hi Aleksey, unfortunately you have lost me much earlier than that. I have read and reread the Concept page and still I have absolutely no idea of what you are trying to accomplish. Perhaps you started from concrete deployment needs but, when designing and documenting the system, you brought it up to such an high level of abstraction that it's impossible to understand what you are talking about (for my little, unimaginative brain at least!). For example http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Concept#Overview Is that describing a video game, a social network, or maybe even... human life? :) Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] The Sugar Network technical implementation overview
On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:04:55AM +, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On 19 December 2011 23:19, Aleksey Lim alsr...@activitycentral.org wrote: IMHO, you will need to get a lot more concrete than that if you want anyone to understand what you are trying to do. The brief info, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Architecture#Functioning Hi Aleksey, unfortunately you have lost me much earlier than that. I have read and reread the Concept page and still I have absolutely no idea of what you are trying to accomplish. Perhaps you started from concrete deployment needs but, when designing and documenting the system, you brought it up to such an high level of abstraction that it's impossible to understand what you are talking about (for my little, unimaginative brain at least!). For example http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Concept#Overview Is that describing a video game, a social network, or maybe even... human life? :) == Well.. == Well, Sugar_Network/Concept might look too abstract.. The problem here is that page created exactly for non-tech people (and maybe for people who populated it, it is hard to write such pages). == Background == In any case, the whole idea of Sugar Network was started not from tech side but to fix particular deployment needs, here off-line schools and bunch of related problems, e.g., the links from its home page http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment_Team/Peru/Puno#The_problem (and http://somosazucar.org/2010/11/20/informe-sobre-la-investigacion-de-las-laptop-xo/ in particular). The point in this idea is, instead of doing thigs like: * package wikipedia to open it on students' XOs (or on teachers' XOs) somehow * the same for any other content in .xol * the same for .xo activity bundles * paper (because it is off-line, the option is creating new system and teach teachers how to use it) work when teachers need to ask tech/edu people about how this system work and how to teach students to use it. All these points seem to be doable from tech pov, but it is more about handling similar issues one-by-one, ie, solving the same problems several times. For example: * is it ok to package wikipedia, can students' XOs handle it, but they don't have additional space like bunch of USB sticks * the same for .xol * the same for .xo == A way to solve it that was chosen == Instead, the idea is about providing basic possibility to share exactly different types of resources (really, can't find more appropriate words). These resources (mentioned on wiki pages from different povs), are: * feedback related resources (questions, ideas, problems) * wiki, for all content, even for the same .xol that can be attached to the wiki * Releases (in terms of Concept page, more appropriate workding is wellcome), that's about activities to launch, ie, .xo Concentrate this sharing on teachers' XOs (ie, they are servers), provide sufficient storage space for all these teachers' XOs (to hadle as much content as possible). Make students's XOs as a thin clients (no need in keeping all .xol/.xo on every XO) for the Sugar Network. Support additional workflow for server-less case, ie, when students go home and teachers' server is not accessible. This server-less workflow should not be like read out wiki to know how to reuse your SD card (btw, maybe absent) to make your life easier (really?) if you want to work with content that doesn't feet to your XO. In term of Sugar_Network/Concept, it should be, there are private and not private Projects, make it private (if you have enought storage space, to work on it at home. == Not only off-line == The implementation with having basic sharing functionality and close integration it with regular sugar behaviour, is exactly what Sugar (from my pov) just doesn't have. There is such possibility, but it starts from Browse and related fun like managing bunch of accounts, not shortest way to do things related to your Sugar env (see the example of sharing TA project vs. Click Share button in Journal. == Feedback == The Sugar Network was named such exactly because of it affects really all levels of Sugar behaviour. And it is really hard to answer to: * general questions about concept, it is possible to answer only in general * general questions about impl, the universal general answer is sharing different types of resources So, regarding impl, more concrete questions are welcome. And it is the Wiki, if you feel you think the same as the text on Sugar_Network pages (if not, there are discussion pages that all interesting in people are subscribed to), and this text has ugly wording/not-full, improve it. -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
[Sugar-devel] The Sugar Network technical implementation overview
(The iaep@ discussion started on http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.education.sugar.discuss/11943) Hi all! == Background == The two questions, regarding collaborative/social activity withing the Sugar community, that the following solution tries to solve: 1. What I need to do to interact with people, who are not just around me, if I'm off-line? 2. Even if I'm online, Sugar native collaborative tools are too limited. (even if particular activities support collaboration (but generally not most of them), it is specific to this activity workflow.) That's generally not a problem and not bad at all, there many of collaborative services in the Internet. But, why not having tools especially designed to handle Sugar specific workflows (see bellow)? The non-tech introduction to Sugar Network concepts: * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Concept In addition the above summary, Sugar Network should be a solution for all community members (not only for people who are off-line) to: * be a place to share Sugar activity objects; * easy feedback/report about problems in Sugar activity; * make Sweets useful for Sugar activity users: ** powerful browsing among all accessible activities ** not explicit download/install, just click to launch ** easy select any version you prefer * make Sweets useful for Sugar activity doers: ** support development/testing/stable versions of the same activity ** support experiments (in Gitorious terms, forks) of existing activities, eg, the GUI to make these experiments easy to start/work/use, let other Network participants launch your experiment == Server == Implementation does not exist yet, the following notes explain the intention: * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network the home page * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Architecture overview * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/API API * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Server initial ideas regarding server implementation The initial (maybe too initial) implementation has a Roadmap, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/0.1/Roadmap == Client == For [default] client implementation, please, contact: * Sebastian Silva sebast...@somosazucar.org * Laura Vargas la...@somosazucar.org == Feedback == Any improvements, feedback and suggestions are welcome. -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] The Sugar Network technical implementation overview
Can you explain what is your idea about implementation? Is a web application in the school server? Is a client activity and software in the server? Is a social network? How is resolved the communication if there are not connectivity? Gonzalo On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:45 PM, Aleksey Lim alsr...@activitycentral.orgwrote: (The iaep@ discussion started on http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.education.sugar.discuss/11943) Hi all! == Background == The two questions, regarding collaborative/social activity withing the Sugar community, that the following solution tries to solve: 1. What I need to do to interact with people, who are not just around me, if I'm off-line? 2. Even if I'm online, Sugar native collaborative tools are too limited. (even if particular activities support collaboration (but generally not most of them), it is specific to this activity workflow.) That's generally not a problem and not bad at all, there many of collaborative services in the Internet. But, why not having tools especially designed to handle Sugar specific workflows (see bellow)? The non-tech introduction to Sugar Network concepts: * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Concept In addition the above summary, Sugar Network should be a solution for all community members (not only for people who are off-line) to: * be a place to share Sugar activity objects; * easy feedback/report about problems in Sugar activity; * make Sweets useful for Sugar activity users: ** powerful browsing among all accessible activities ** not explicit download/install, just click to launch ** easy select any version you prefer * make Sweets useful for Sugar activity doers: ** support development/testing/stable versions of the same activity ** support experiments (in Gitorious terms, forks) of existing activities, eg, the GUI to make these experiments easy to start/work/use, let other Network participants launch your experiment == Server == Implementation does not exist yet, the following notes explain the intention: * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network the home page * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Architecture overview * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/API API * http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Server initial ideas regarding server implementation The initial (maybe too initial) implementation has a Roadmap, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/0.1/Roadmap == Client == For [default] client implementation, please, contact: * Sebastian Silva sebast...@somosazucar.org * Laura Vargas la...@somosazucar.org == Feedback == Any improvements, feedback and suggestions are welcome. -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] The Sugar Network technical implementation overview
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 04:12:59PM -0300, Gonzalo Odiard wrote: Can you explain what is your idea about implementation? If it is about technical implementation (not about the initial purpose), and about the server side: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Server About the [default] client: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Architecture#Client (but it is the question to Sebastian and Laura). Is a web application in the school server? Is a client activity and software in the server? http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Architecture#Overview Is a social network? It is exactly what http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network#Summary says, ie, share various types of content (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Concept#Resources) between Network participants. In might be treated as a distributed social network, but it not only about this, see the purpose section on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network#Summary, ie, * Provide technical and educational support to students and teachers; * Support social activity of student and teachers with possibility of close integration with learning process; * Connect student and teachers with the rest of Sugar community for, e.g., getting a feedback from the field. How is resolved the communication if there are not connectivity? http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Architecture#Synchronisation -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] The Sugar Network technical implementation overview
On 19 December 2011 19:34, Aleksey Lim alsr...@activitycentral.org wrote: Is a social network? It is exactly what http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network#Summary says, ie, share various types of content (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Concept#Resources) between Network participants. In might be treated as a distributed social network, but it not only about this, see the purpose section on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network#Summary, ie, IMHO, you will need to get a lot more concrete than that if you want anyone to understand what you are trying to do. Marco ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] The Sugar Network technical implementation overview
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:49 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti ma...@marcopg.orgwrote: On 19 December 2011 19:34, Aleksey Lim alsr...@activitycentral.org wrote: Is a social network? It is exactly what http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network#Summary says, ie, share various types of content (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Concept#Resources) between Network participants. In might be treated as a distributed social network, but it not only about this, see the purpose section on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network#Summary, ie, IMHO, you will need to get a lot more concrete than that if you want anyone to understand what you are trying to do. Marco +1 I was thinking its me, but looks so vague than a patent specification ... Gonzalo ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] The Sugar Network technical implementation overview
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 09:49:44PM +, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On 19 December 2011 19:34, Aleksey Lim alsr...@activitycentral.org wrote: Is a social network? It is exactly what http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network#Summary says, ie, share various types of content (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Concept#Resources) between Network participants. In might be treated as a distributed social network, but it not only about this, see the purpose section on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network#Summary, ie, IMHO, you will need to get a lot more concrete than that if you want anyone to understand what you are trying to do. The brief info, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Architecture#Functioning In any case, the server is only what it provides via API, ie, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/API and the same from conceptual point of view http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Concept#Resources -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] The Sugar Network technical implementation overview
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 11:19:06PM +, Aleksey Lim wrote: On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 09:49:44PM +, Marco Pesenti Gritti wrote: On 19 December 2011 19:34, Aleksey Lim alsr...@activitycentral.org wrote: Is a social network? It is exactly what http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network#Summary says, ie, share various types of content (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Concept#Resources) between Network participants. In might be treated as a distributed social network, but it not only about this, see the purpose section on http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network#Summary, ie, IMHO, you will need to get a lot more concrete than that if you want anyone to understand what you are trying to do. The brief info, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/Architecture#Functioning In any case, the server is only what it provides via API, ie, http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Platform_Team/Sugar_Network/API and the same from conceptual point of view http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Network/Concept#Resources But, as I already menitoned, on top of this low level [server] implementation, it might be a good chance (the real one, becuase there are not many options to support off-line schools) to try to make social network like methods closer to Sugar workflow. For example: 1) Sharing Activity objects across community. There is TA gallery. * To use it, people need to * go to TA home page * find there a like * bookmark it somehow * open the Browser * click the object you like and Browser will ask you to download * switch to Journal and activate it * To upload new object: * Create TA object * open the browser * and found there TA site * login there * upload TA object (it works only if you on-line) Making it close, will mean: * To use it, people need to: * Sugar Network Browser is open from the beginning (somewhere), go there * select TA/Gallery to browse only TA objects * click the object you like to activate it * To upload new object: * click Share button in Journal or * somewhere on post-creation dialog, click Share (and thats not only for TA) 2) Feedback report on activity fails. It was implemented in Dextrose but reports go to jita.sl.o and accessible only for people who have account there. Not because it was designed this way, but because the reports representer needs to be created. Making it close, will mean that Sugar Network has this functionality by design. To see these reports, particular developer (who cares about exactly this particular activity report, i.e., not someone else who need to sort out all reports to share it w/ developers) can see them. 3) The idea w/ http://getsatisfaction.com/sugarlabs died, but I guess not only because people who use sugar (not developers or experienced users who know what ML and IRC are) don't have questions/ideas/problems with sugar. If the same functionality will be closer * find the activity project in the GUI * switch to it * type your question/idea/problem instead of: * be on-line * know/remember http://getsatisfaction.com/sugarlabs url * open the Browser * login (you need to be registered and remember the password) * type your question/idea/problem to people who are the targeting audience, we will have more feedback for sure. -- Aleksey ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
