Re: [Sugar-devel] Design review plea.. OLPC desktop switcher
On 19 Jun 2009, at 15:59, Daniel Drake wrote: Hi Eben/other interested victims, I've designed (it's usually bad news when I've designed things) some interfaces that allow for switching between Sugar and GNOME for the XO-1.5 builds. I'm looking for feedback on the design and any suggestions/contributions. By default, laptops boot straight up into Sugar. But you might notice a new icon in the control panel named Switch desktop http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-controlpanel.png If we click on that, under normal circumstances you will see: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-sugar.png Then, when you click the Switch to GNOME button, it will look like this: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-gnome.png And if everything works right, this one will never be seen, but allows for an escape route if something goes wrong: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-unknown.png When you're in GNOME, there is an icon that says Switch to Sugar on the desktop. It's also on the Applications menu, under System. When you click on it, it brings up a dialog box that tells you to restart and then you'll be back in Sugar again. In this screenshot you can see the desktop item, the menu item, and the output dialog box: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/gnome-ui.png Code for all of that is at git://dev.laptop.org/users/dsd/olpc-switch-desktop (latest updates to be pushed in a few minutes) The Logout menu item in sugar is disabled. It's still there in GNOME, but I'll look for a way to hide it. (when you logout, it just basically restarts the desktop environment, so it's kind of pointless. A reboot is acceptable for changing DE, and the logout concept is confusing when there wasn't any logging in to begin with.) Thoughts? Hey, great to see this moving along. Screen shots look real good to me! Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Design review plea.. OLPC desktop switcher
On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Daniel Draked...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Eben/other interested victims, I've designed (it's usually bad news when I've designed things) some interfaces that allow for switching between Sugar and GNOME for the XO-1.5 builds. I'm looking for feedback on the design and any suggestions/contributions. By default, laptops boot straight up into Sugar. But you might notice a new icon in the control panel named Switch desktop http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-controlpanel.png If we click on that, under normal circumstances you will see: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-sugar.png Then, when you click the Switch to GNOME button, it will look like this: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-gnome.png And if everything works right, this one will never be seen, but allows for an escape route if something goes wrong: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-unknown.png When you're in GNOME, there is an icon that says Switch to Sugar on the desktop. It's also on the Applications menu, under System. When you click on it, it brings up a dialog box that tells you to restart and then you'll be back in Sugar again. In this screenshot you can see the desktop item, the menu item, and the output dialog box: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/gnome-ui.png Code for all of that is at git://dev.laptop.org/users/dsd/olpc-switch-desktop (latest updates to be pushed in a few minutes) The Logout menu item in sugar is disabled. It's still there in GNOME, but I'll look for a way to hide it. (when you logout, it just basically restarts the desktop environment, so it's kind of pointless. A reboot is acceptable for changing DE, and the logout concept is confusing when there wasn't any logging in to begin with.) Minor nitpick (and this has been discussed again and again on various lists), but the foot icon may be regarded as highly offensive in certain cultures (eg: certain places in S-E Asia). Granted that GNOME uses the foot icon at various places, but somehow the icon on the sugar-control-panel felt more prominent/jarring to me, maybe because of the color scheme, or maybe for something else. Thanks, Sayamindu -- Sayamindu Dasgupta [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings] ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Design review plea.. OLPC desktop switcher
This looks great! What I don't like though, is the 'switch to sugar' functionality being available as a button. Wouldn't it be better to keep it as a GDM session option? 2009/6/19 Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org: Hi Eben/other interested victims, I've designed (it's usually bad news when I've designed things) some interfaces that allow for switching between Sugar and GNOME for the XO-1.5 builds. I'm looking for feedback on the design and any suggestions/contributions. By default, laptops boot straight up into Sugar. But you might notice a new icon in the control panel named Switch desktop http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-controlpanel.png If we click on that, under normal circumstances you will see: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-sugar.png Then, when you click the Switch to GNOME button, it will look like this: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-gnome.png And if everything works right, this one will never be seen, but allows for an escape route if something goes wrong: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-unknown.png When you're in GNOME, there is an icon that says Switch to Sugar on the desktop. It's also on the Applications menu, under System. When you click on it, it brings up a dialog box that tells you to restart and then you'll be back in Sugar again. In this screenshot you can see the desktop item, the menu item, and the output dialog box: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/gnome-ui.png Code for all of that is at git://dev.laptop.org/users/dsd/olpc-switch-desktop (latest updates to be pushed in a few minutes) The Logout menu item in sugar is disabled. It's still there in GNOME, but I'll look for a way to hide it. (when you logout, it just basically restarts the desktop environment, so it's kind of pointless. A reboot is acceptable for changing DE, and the logout concept is confusing when there wasn't any logging in to begin with.) Thoughts? Thanks, Daniel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Design review plea.. OLPC desktop switcher
On Fri, 2009-06-19 at 17:04 +0100, Lucian Branescu wrote: This looks great! What I don't like though, is the 'switch to sugar' functionality being available as a button. Wouldn't it be better to keep it as a GDM session option? Thanks for the feedback. We aren't shipping GDM or similar, particularly for new users it is very important that the laptops boot straight into Sugar without any confusing login screens coming up first. Daniel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Design review plea.. OLPC desktop switcher
Hi Daniel looks great May I suggest using the word interface instead of desktop from within Sugar? Learners don't use a desktop :-) And, if I may, I'd like to put in a word for having the Sugar logo on the control panel screens referring to Sugar. For example if http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-sugar.png said: Active interface environment: followed by a little Sugar logo. Preferably not the green outline/blue fill, we want to rotate through the 12 combinations :-) If a small Sugar logo could be added to the Gnome choose Sugar window that would be grand Sugar logos resources are here: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Marketing_Team/Logo Also, under the screenshot showing the two environments (http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-gnome.png), I feel a small logo would catch the eye more easily than plain text. For the Sugar screenshot, perhaps a dim grey outline showing the frontier between the white background of the screenshot and the white background of the screen would help communicate the choice between the two screens. And, having the fat Sugar mouse pointer in the screenshot would help quick identification too, it's one of the visually striking graphic elements of Sugar and easily recognizable to Learners. Finally, may I suggest adding a Restart now button to the right of the Cancel changes button? If the intent is to reboot in the alternate environment, such a button would save steps and avoid ambiguity, and I'm concerned that the proposed path is to click the check button at the top then reboot manually. Which should by the way work as well, but I feel a dedicated button (as when switching languages) would be clearer. The manual method could remain for someone who for any reason wishes to set the next boot to Gnome (perhaps the little brother who wants to finish up something before rebooting and handing off to big sister). Apple by the way handled exactly this problem with the OS9/OSX boot choices which differed in each environment. As here they propose selecting a different default boot OS and either rebooting right away or deferring it. I don't suppose there will be a keyboard press or combination to bypass default boot desktop and boot into the alternate instead? Apple did that too, in fact with several combos (boot alternate, propose choice etc.) thanks Sean P.S. is it you I could speak with about briefly showing a Sugar logo at Sugar boot? After debating lots of ideas with lots of mockups for Sugar on a Stick we went with a Sugar logo during the first three dots and the Xo avatar for the remaining ones. We chose variant #06 because SoaS v1 will be called Strawberry and we will change the boot color and name for each SoaS iteration, the idea being to aid unsophisticated users who can communicate version info just from the boot logo color. On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Daniel Draked...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Eben/other interested victims, I've designed (it's usually bad news when I've designed things) some interfaces that allow for switching between Sugar and GNOME for the XO-1.5 builds. I'm looking for feedback on the design and any suggestions/contributions. By default, laptops boot straight up into Sugar. But you might notice a new icon in the control panel named Switch desktop http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-controlpanel.png If we click on that, under normal circumstances you will see: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-sugar.png Then, when you click the Switch to GNOME button, it will look like this: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-gnome.png And if everything works right, this one will never be seen, but allows for an escape route if something goes wrong: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-unknown.png When you're in GNOME, there is an icon that says Switch to Sugar on the desktop. It's also on the Applications menu, under System. When you click on it, it brings up a dialog box that tells you to restart and then you'll be back in Sugar again. In this screenshot you can see the desktop item, the menu item, and the output dialog box: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/gnome-ui.png Code for all of that is at git://dev.laptop.org/users/dsd/olpc-switch-desktop (latest updates to be pushed in a few minutes) The Logout menu item in sugar is disabled. It's still there in GNOME, but I'll look for a way to hide it. (when you logout, it just basically restarts the desktop environment, so it's kind of pointless. A reboot is acceptable for changing DE, and the logout concept is confusing when there wasn't any logging in to begin with.) Thoughts? Thanks, Daniel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org
Re: [Sugar-devel] Design review plea.. OLPC desktop switcher
On 19.06.2009, at 18:02, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote: Minor nitpick (and this has been discussed again and again on various lists), but the foot icon may be regarded as highly offensive in certain cultures (eg: certain places in S-E Asia). Assuming penguins are unencumbered, I'd suggest a Tux icon ... - Bert - ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Design review plea.. OLPC desktop switcher
Hi Sean, picking up on one of your comments below: After debating lots of ideas with lots of mockups for Sugar on a Stick we went with a Sugar logo during the first three dots and the Xo avatar for the remaining ones. We chose variant #06 because SoaS v1 will be called Strawberry and we will change the boot color and name for each SoaS iteration, the idea being to aid unsophisticated users who can communicate version info just from the boot logo color. For simplicity, I would suggest having the logo on a separate screen for a few secs *before* the XO and the ring with dots appear. I think they should both be kept separate, for clarity both visually/aesthetically, but also semantically (the XO at the center of the screen is a fundamental principle in the Sugar UI, and having it trade places with the logo in the middle of the ring is mixing metaphors). Let me know if you agree... Christian On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Daniel Draked...@laptop.org wrote: Hi Eben/other interested victims, I've designed (it's usually bad news when I've designed things) some interfaces that allow for switching between Sugar and GNOME for the XO-1.5 builds. I'm looking for feedback on the design and any suggestions/contributions. By default, laptops boot straight up into Sugar. But you might notice a new icon in the control panel named Switch desktop http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-controlpanel.pnghttp://dev.laptop.org/%7Edsd/20090619/sugar-controlpanel.png If we click on that, under normal circumstances you will see: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-sugar.pnghttp://dev.laptop.org/%7Edsd/20090619/sugar-active-sugar.png Then, when you click the Switch to GNOME button, it will look like this: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-gnome.pnghttp://dev.laptop.org/%7Edsd/20090619/sugar-active-gnome.png And if everything works right, this one will never be seen, but allows for an escape route if something goes wrong: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/sugar-active-unknown.pnghttp://dev.laptop.org/%7Edsd/20090619/sugar-active-unknown.png When you're in GNOME, there is an icon that says Switch to Sugar on the desktop. It's also on the Applications menu, under System. When you click on it, it brings up a dialog box that tells you to restart and then you'll be back in Sugar again. In this screenshot you can see the desktop item, the menu item, and the output dialog box: http://dev.laptop.org/~dsd/20090619/gnome-ui.pnghttp://dev.laptop.org/%7Edsd/20090619/gnome-ui.png Code for all of that is at git://dev.laptop.org/users/dsd/olpc-switch-desktop (latest updates to be pushed in a few minutes) The Logout menu item in sugar is disabled. It's still there in GNOME, but I'll look for a way to hide it. (when you logout, it just basically restarts the desktop environment, so it's kind of pointless. A reboot is acceptable for changing DE, and the logout concept is confusing when there wasn't any logging in to begin with.) Thoughts? Thanks, Daniel ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel -- anyth...@christianmarcschmidt.com http://www.christianmarcschmidt.com 917/ 575 0013 ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Design review plea.. OLPC desktop switcher
Hi Christian, On 19 Jun 2009, at 18:11, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: Hi Gary--is it online somewhere where I could look at it? Maybe I just need to see it... The two to look at for this are: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/4/4b/Refined-XO-sugar-boot-with-overlap.gif vs. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/7/7c/Refined-XO-sugar-boot.gif Regards, --Gary Thanks, Christian Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Christian, On 19 Jun 2009, at 17:53, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: Hi Sean, picking up on one of your comments below: After debating lots of ideas with lots of mockups for Sugar on a Stick we went with a Sugar logo during the first three dots and the Xo avatar for the remaining ones. We chose variant #06 because SoaS v1 will be called Strawberry and we will change the boot color and name for each SoaS iteration, the idea being to aid unsophisticated users who can communicate version info just from the boot logo color. For simplicity, I would suggest having the logo on a separate screen for a few secs *before* the XO and the ring with dots appear. I think they should both be kept separate, for clarity both visually/aesthetically, but also semantically (the XO at the center of the screen is a fundamental principle in the Sugar UI, and having it trade places with the logo in the middle of the ring is mixing metaphors). Let me know if you agree... That was tried first (some of the mock-ups have it that way), but it's visually jarring. Like watching some random slide show of logos. Slightly overlapping the logo / progress dots / xo gave (IMO) continuity to the boot process progression. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Design review plea.. OLPC desktop switcher
Hmmm. For SoaS, I'm wondering why we're discussing this again after we made a choice just under the deadline last week. The issue is that the impression should last at least 3 seconds, and by being present during the dot process we don't delay boot unnnecessarily. We could fade to the Xo avatar instead of cutting to it from the Sugar logo (this version is a sequence of PNGs). However, unless Sebastian indicates changes are possible I'm not sure we can do that by now. The press release will be published Wednesday morning EDT. For the XO-1.5, I'm certainly willing to prolong the previous thread :-) my question really was can we get OLPC on board to communicate at boot time that Sugar is the interface you're looking at thanks Sean On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Eben Eliasoneben.elia...@gmail.com wrote: I'm in agreement with Christian. I think the non-overlapping treatment is cleaner and maintains the purity of the metaphor. Eben PS. Actually, I find the transition less jarring when there are no dots associated with the logo, since it indicates that there is no direct relationship between the two. When the dots are continuous but the graphic in the middle changes, I get the impression I missed something. On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Christian, On 19 Jun 2009, at 18:11, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: Hi Gary--is it online somewhere where I could look at it? Maybe I just need to see it... The two to look at for this are: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/4/4b/Refined-XO-sugar-boot-with-overlap.gif vs. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/7/7c/Refined-XO-sugar-boot.gif Regards, --Gary Thanks, Christian Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Christian, On 19 Jun 2009, at 17:53, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: Hi Sean, picking up on one of your comments below: After debating lots of ideas with lots of mockups for Sugar on a Stick we went with a Sugar logo during the first three dots and the Xo avatar for the remaining ones. We chose variant #06 because SoaS v1 will be called Strawberry and we will change the boot color and name for each SoaS iteration, the idea being to aid unsophisticated users who can communicate version info just from the boot logo color. For simplicity, I would suggest having the logo on a separate screen for a few secs *before* the XO and the ring with dots appear. I think they should both be kept separate, for clarity both visually/aesthetically, but also semantically (the XO at the center of the screen is a fundamental principle in the Sugar UI, and having it trade places with the logo in the middle of the ring is mixing metaphors). Let me know if you agree... That was tried first (some of the mock-ups have it that way), but it's visually jarring. Like watching some random slide show of logos. Slightly overlapping the logo / progress dots / xo gave (IMO) continuity to the boot process progression. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Design review plea.. OLPC desktop switcher
On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Sean DALYsdaly...@gmail.com wrote: Hmmm. For SoaS, I'm wondering why we're discussing this again after we made a choice just under the deadline last week. The issue is that the impression should last at least 3 seconds, and by being present during the dot process we don't delay boot unnnecessarily. We wouldn't delay boot. The logo would just appear during the period in which the first 3 dots would be shown. The ring of dots around the XO, then, would just have 3 fewer dots. We could fade to the Xo avatar instead of cutting to it from the Sugar logo (this version is a sequence of PNGs). I fear this would look even worse, since the frames appear at about 1fps or fewer. - Eben However, unless Sebastian indicates changes are possible I'm not sure we can do that by now. The press release will be published Wednesday morning EDT. For the XO-1.5, I'm certainly willing to prolong the previous thread :-) my question really was can we get OLPC on board to communicate at boot time that Sugar is the interface you're looking at thanks Sean On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 10:00 PM, Eben Eliasoneben.elia...@gmail.com wrote: I'm in agreement with Christian. I think the non-overlapping treatment is cleaner and maintains the purity of the metaphor. Eben PS. Actually, I find the transition less jarring when there are no dots associated with the logo, since it indicates that there is no direct relationship between the two. When the dots are continuous but the graphic in the middle changes, I get the impression I missed something. On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Gary C Marting...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Christian, On 19 Jun 2009, at 18:11, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: Hi Gary--is it online somewhere where I could look at it? Maybe I just need to see it... The two to look at for this are: http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/4/4b/Refined-XO-sugar-boot-with-overlap.gif vs. http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/7/7c/Refined-XO-sugar-boot.gif Regards, --Gary Thanks, Christian Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2009, at 1:03 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Hi Christian, On 19 Jun 2009, at 17:53, Christian Marc Schmidt wrote: Hi Sean, picking up on one of your comments below: After debating lots of ideas with lots of mockups for Sugar on a Stick we went with a Sugar logo during the first three dots and the Xo avatar for the remaining ones. We chose variant #06 because SoaS v1 will be called Strawberry and we will change the boot color and name for each SoaS iteration, the idea being to aid unsophisticated users who can communicate version info just from the boot logo color. For simplicity, I would suggest having the logo on a separate screen for a few secs *before* the XO and the ring with dots appear. I think they should both be kept separate, for clarity both visually/aesthetically, but also semantically (the XO at the center of the screen is a fundamental principle in the Sugar UI, and having it trade places with the logo in the middle of the ring is mixing metaphors). Let me know if you agree... That was tried first (some of the mock-ups have it that way), but it's visually jarring. Like watching some random slide show of logos. Slightly overlapping the logo / progress dots / xo gave (IMO) continuity to the boot process progression. Regards, --Gary ___ Sugar-devel mailing list Sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel
