It Took Thousands of Years, but We Finally Have a Digital Sundial
Hi all, I thought that this could be of interest to many on the Sundial list: http://www.sciencealert.com/it-took-thousands-of-years-but-we-finally-have-a-digital-sundial Regards, Paul Ratto--- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: leap year
Hello Jos, The concept of a leap year is a purely human invention to make minor adjustments to our calendar year as it slowly gets out of sync with the solar year, and as far as I know there is no way for a sundial to 'know' about leap years. Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-793-6161 sunclock...@icloud.com www.sunclocks.net On Aug 28, 2014, at 4:06 AM, Jos Kint jos.k...@telenet.be wrote: Has anyone an idea how to use a sundial for calculating if the current year is a leap year? And, if not, how many years we are behind the next leap year? Jos Kint, 50°59’ N ; 3°39’E --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Planetarium app
Hi David, There's a pretty nice iOS app out there already called Sky Walk (https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sky-walk/id543606710?ls=1mt=8) which shows the night sky and satellite paths from anywhere in the world, but as I understand it, only from your current geographical location. A good enhancement to the app would be to allow to enter a location anywhere on earth - I didn't look too hard, but I didn't see that option anywhere in the app. Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-793-6161 sunclock...@icloud.com www.sunclocks.net On May 22, 2014, at 3:56 AM, Astrovisuals m...@astrovisuals.com.au wrote: I wonder if anyone can help? I want to produce a basic planetarium app for iPad that shows the appearance of the Night Sky anywhere on earth. I believe I need: A program to convert RA and Dec to Alt-azimuth co-ordinates. A list of stars, plus details about how to add “constellation lines” between selected bright stars. A way of incorporating the Milky Way as a vector file. Would be grateful for any help; am happy to pay for programs, lists etc. And on a different subject, I would like to enter a sundial in the Italian Astronomers’ International contest for sundial makers, but cannot find the form to fill in. Can someone supply a PDF or web address? Thanks, David Widdowson, Astrovisuals Australia www.astrovisuals.com.au --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Copyright rules / Bill Gottesman stance
Hi Frank, Thank you for the photos of the Jesus Green Analemmatic Sundial. Too bad there wasn't any sunshine for the unveiling, as I see no hint whatsoever of a shadow. I see that the GNU license states that the author of the work must nevertheless be attributed... I don't actually see that stated. The wording is: Attribution - You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor... I do not see any specification by the author. Can you point me to this? While I would certainly cite Douglas Hunt myself, I see no formal requirement to do this. The Human Sundial image is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike 3.0 License, which is defined at creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0 and whose attribution rules state that You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.. Douglas Hunt has since gotten back to me about the Human Sundial image which has been posted to Wikimedia Commons, and he has made it quite clear that he has never submitted anything to them even though the image is correctly attributed the image to him. This brings up a whole new discussion point on what is to stop random people from making images available to the public domain, and what can be done to rectify this when that happens. In regards to the Bill Gottesman stance, it's an interesting concept, but it seems to me that the narrow triangle of light formed in this manner would be so short as to preclude any kind of precision in the reading of the time. Is this not correct? The triangle is certainly short but so is a compass needle and yet you can use such a needle to navigate a large boat. The triangle also has a pointed tip, again as a compass needle. Moreover, you also pay more attention to where your feet are. With practice, you can get good results using the Bill Gottesman stance. I get your example about the compass needle being short and yet can still be used to navigate a boat, but to do this you simply need to point the boat in a general direction to get somewhere, until such a time as to use landmarks in the end for accurate navigation. It still seems to me that the short shadow given by the Bill Gottesman stance may be quite accurate, but it would still be difficult to extrapolate such a short shadow to an accurate reading of the more distant hour markers of the Human Sundial. Everybody seems to like the stance however, and I guess that in practice it's easier to extrapolate the shadow that I imagine it is, so I think I'll just have to try it out for myself... Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-792-4823 www.sunclocks.net On May 11, 2014, at 14:52, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: Dear Paul, You ask: ...would you have any actual images of the sundial that was unveiled at unveiled on Cambridge's Jesus Green? You can see four here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60409645@N05/sets/72157644179797609 These were taken before and after the crowds were around! I haven't seen the press photographs yet. As you can tell, the two rings look very much like those in the Douglas Hunt drawing that you use as your logo. They are square rather than round and have Roman numerals rather than Arabic but the two ranges seem to be the same, eg 7am to 6pm for the winter times. I see that the GNU license states that the author of the work must nevertheless be attributed... I don't actually see that stated. The wording is: Attribution - You must attribute the work in the manner specified by the author or licensor... I do not see any specification by the author. Can you point me to this? While I would certainly cite Douglas Hunt myself, I see no formal requirement to do this. In regards to the Bill Gottesman stance, it's an interesting concept, but it seems to me that the narrow triangle of light formed in this manner would be so short as to preclude any kind of precision in the reading of the time. Is this not correct? The triangle is certainly short but so is a compass needle and yet you can use such a needle to navigate a large boat. The triangle also has a pointed tip, again as a compass needle. Moreover, you also pay more attention to where your feet are. With practice, you can get good results using the Bill Gottesman stance. Take a look at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/60409645@N05/8901352415 I wasn't quite ready for the photograph to be taken but the narrow triangle actually points more precisely to the required hour point than is suggested by the shadow of my head. There is no substitute for a long stick held vertically in the correct place but you don't always have one to hand! Frank King Cambridge, U.K
Re: Cambridge News article on Human Sundial unveiling
Hi Frank, Thank you form the additional details, as I hadn't realized that the image had been posted to Wikimedia Commons, thereby making it public domain. Anyhow, I see that the GNU license states that the author of the work must nevertheless be attributed, which as I understand is similar to the fair use rules for Copytighted files, so this shouldn't really change much when it comes to using the image in such cases. In regards to the Bill Gottesman stance, it's an interesting concept, but it seems to me that the narrow triangle of light formed in this manner would be so short as to preclude any kind of precision in the reading of the time. Is this not correct? Lastly, having been present, would you have any actual images of the sundial that was unveiled at unveiled on Cambridge's Jesus Green? Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-792-4823 www.sunclocks.net On May 10, 2014, at 06:27, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: Dear Paul, Many thanks for your note on the use of your Business Logo by a local Newspaper here in Cambridge. I very much take all your points. I also echo Steve Lelievre's comments. If you use someone else's photograph, drawing or idea, then you should say so even if the person is long dead and the material is out of Copyright. In the case of your business logo I took a look at: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Analemmatic_%28Human_Sundial%29.png As you say in a follow-up, the author of this image is Douglas Hunt. The permission status is that it has been released under the GNU Free Documentation License. I guess that is all a Newspaper would want to know. This image seems to be free for anyone to use anyway they like. The permission status seems to allow you to modify the image too. As far as I can tell, you COULD follow up Mac Oglesby's suggestion. As ever, he makes good sense! While you are at it you could have the user taking up the Bill Gottesman stance (which I explain below). Of course, you should acknowledge all three of Douglas, Mac and Bill. I would myself! The GNU agreement for this kind of permission status adds: Content in the public domain may not have a strict legal requirement of attribution ... but attribution is recommended to give correct provenance. I would certainly give attribution if I used this image and it would be to Douglas Hunt. I am not quite sure what your agreement is with him... On the sunclocks.net home page there is no mention of Douglas Hunt against the image. Shouldn't there be? Alas, I still do not know much about this new sundial. I was present at the opening, in pouring rain, and no one I spoke to had the slightest understanding of sundials. No one could answer any of my questions about the designer and/or maker. The idea seems to have been that of Vernon McElroy who died in 2012. I don't know whether he actually came up with a drawing but I gather that he did have some understanding of sundials. I have heard that the stones were cut by a company in York, England, but they just did as asked. I spoke to the guy who laid the stones but he was just following a drawing. He didn't know what he was doing or where the design came from! There is something much more worrying about this story than merely using your business Logo without any kind of citation... At a cursory glance, the whole design seems to be an implementation of the Douglas Hunt image. The actual sundial includes the outer ring running from 7 to 6 rather than from 6 to 6. To be sure Roman Numerals are used but otherwise it looks like your Logo. You ask about the Bill Gottesman stance. This is a rather frivolous example of my own pedantry when it comes to citations! When I was at the NASS Asheville meeting in 2012, Bill explained that when using an analemmatic sundial, you should stand with your feet just a few inches apart. You then turn so that, through the shadows of your legs, you get a very narrow triangle of light on the ground. The tip of the triangle indicates the time. This is a very simple idea but it wasn't mine!! Maybe it wasn't Bill's either? Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Copyright rules
Hello everyone, Thank you to everyone who contributed to this discussion, as I found it to be quite interesting as well as educational. Hi Steve, I appreciate your reply. I hadn't realized that the file had been put into the public domain by Douglas Hunt, but either way, the GNU license states that the author of the work must nevertheless be attributed to the author. I am rather stunned by the change in UK copyright laws, for which the article you linked to suggested that the law was illegal under the Berne convention and mentioned that the UK could expect a firestorm of international litigation if the law went ahead. As they say, It's as if Britain decided it owned Disney, and let anybody pirate the company's DVDs while it keeps the proceeds. Can you confirm whether or not the law did eventually pass, and if so, has the firestorm of litigation started? Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-792-4823 www.sunclocks.net On May 10, 2014, at 08:49, Steve Lelievre steve.lelievre.can...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Paul, On 09/05/2014 7:45 PM, Sunclocks North America wrote: Hi Steve, [ snip] Being from Canada, as you are, do you know if our laws are similar to those in the USA, and do you know what rules apply to images being used outside of North America? We amended our copyright law in 2012 and Canada and USA have very similar rules. Yours are marginally more favourable to the user of an image, whereas ours are a bit more favourable to the copyright owner. We have some fairly nasty penalties that apply if a person, even unknowingly, infringes on electronic anti-copying mechanisms for digital materials. [snip] I'm not the actual owner or creator of the image. That changes things substantially. As Frank King discovered and indicated in his reply, the actual copyright owner did give permission to the newspaper to use the image, by virtue of the public licence. The fact that you're using it doesn't preclude use by others, and my discussion of Fair Dealing is made redundant. Everyone, I just discovered that in 2013, the was a change in UK law that affects copyright of images. A one-sided discussion: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/29/err_act_landgrab/ In summary, the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Act has provisions that relate to so-called Orphan Works. Basically, if someone finds an image on the web and cannot identify the copyright owner, they are free to use the work. There has to be a reasonable attempt to try to contact the owner, but unless you mark your images very clearly as yours then your ownership is at risk. You might have your name and contact details on your website but for example if somebody rips your image onto a site with no contact information, or embeds it in an email from a non-defunct email address , then reasonable efforts to find the owner will fail and the image can then be used freely. So, it seems that if you have a valuable image that you want to post online for some reason, you should think twice. If you choose to proceed, watermark it with a copyright statement and contact details, or edit the metadata (non-visible image file attributes) to include owner details. Even then, watch out as your favourite photo-sharing website may strip your metadata out of images you upload, replacing it with their own. If ownership details get seperated from the image, you risk a person or business in the UK taking it and use it however they like. Most of us aren't great photographers but I've seen some lovely sundial images on the web too. Steve Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-792-4823 www.sunclocks.net On May 9, 2014, at 18:15, Steve Lelievre steve.lelievre.can...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/05/2014 5:08 PM, Sunclocks North America wrote: Also, I was wondering if anybody could tell me what are the typical requirements for people to be allowed to use random copyrighted images from the internet, and what my rights and possible recourses are in such cases of the unauthorized use of my logo. Hi Paul, My experience is in the context of academic use of materials under Canadian law, so what follows is not offered in an expert or professional capacity and is not qualified legal opinion. Copyright law is complex and full fo special cases. Although there are treaties that establish a general framework, the details vary from country to country. Generally, the owner of the copyright is entitled to set terms of use including fees before a copy can be made. However, in some circumstances the principle of Fair Dealing, called Fair Use in the USA, allows copying without permission of, or compensation for, the copyright owner. Whether Fair Dealing applies is influenced by various criteria: the consequences (has the owner lost income or reputation), the extent of the copying, the use made of the copy
Re: Cambridge News article on Human Sundial unveiling
Hello Frank, I have noticed in the recent posting about a Cambridge News article on a Human Sundial unveiling, as well as from a few other miscellaneous web sources, that my business' logo (attached) is sometimes used to illustrate to concept of a Human Sundial. Although I realize that the line drawing in question does a good job of clearly showing at a glance what a Human Sundial is, this has so far so far always been done without authorization. Since you are involved in the official opening, I was wondering if you would happen to know why the Cambridge News article would choose to use the illustration instead of actual photos of the new Human Sundial. Even though it was only to be officially opened on Thursday (Yesterday), the sundial must certainly have already been built, and actual photos of it must be available. Would you have pictures of the actual sundial? Also, I was wondering if anybody could tell me what are the typical requirements for people to be allowed to use random copyrighted images from the internet, and what my rights and possible recourses are in such cases of the unauthorized use of my logo. Lastly, I see that Bill Gottesman is mentionned as a prominent sundial designer by NASS, but I'm curious as to what is the 'Bill Gottesman stance' stance to which you refer. Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-793-6161 www.sunclocks.net On May 6, 2014, at 10:14 AM, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: Dear All, By chance, Cambridge is unveiling (?) yet another sundial on Thursday. See: http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Its-time-human-sundial-set-to-be-unveiled-on-Cambridges-Jesus-Green-2014050607.htm This has nothing to do with me but I have been asked to accompany the Lord Lieutenant, perhaps to ensure that he knows what to do. I shall advise him to take up the Bill Gottesman stance. I wonder whether he will cooperate! I think I shall wear the traditional Dress Uniform of the University Clock-Keeper. Frank King Cambridge, U.K. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Cambridge News article on Human Sundial unveiling
Hi Steve, Thank you very much for the extensive reply. I also found an article that is pretty much in line with what you have stated, at www.socialmediaexaminer.com/copyright-fair-use-and-how-it-works-for-online-images. Being from Canada, as you are, do you know if our laws are similar to those in the USA, and do you know what rules apply to images being used outside of North America? I don't have a problem with the newspaper using the image, it's just that I have now on several occasions seen the logo used without any acknowledgement as to it's source, and was wondering how I could handle it if I ever do in the future take issue with how it's used. I'm not the actual owner or creator of the image, but I have been specifically authorized to use it as my business's logo and therefore have a direct interest in how it's used. Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-792-4823 www.sunclocks.net On May 9, 2014, at 18:15, Steve Lelievre steve.lelievre.can...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/05/2014 5:08 PM, Sunclocks North America wrote: Also, I was wondering if anybody could tell me what are the typical requirements for people to be allowed to use random copyrighted images from the internet, and what my rights and possible recourses are in such cases of the unauthorized use of my logo. Hi Paul, My experience is in the context of academic use of materials under Canadian law, so what follows is not offered in an expert or professional capacity and is not qualified legal opinion. Copyright law is complex and full fo special cases. Although there are treaties that establish a general framework, the details vary from country to country. Generally, the owner of the copyright is entitled to set terms of use including fees before a copy can be made. However, in some circumstances the principle of Fair Dealing, called Fair Use in the USA, allows copying without permission of, or compensation for, the copyright owner. Whether Fair Dealing applies is influenced by various criteria: the consequences (has the owner lost income or reputation), the extent of the copying, the use made of the copy or copies, the benefit gained by the person doing the copying, and other factors, as well as precedent and case law. In the event of a claim going to court, damages are assessed depending on how unfair the copying was. Although people sometimes assume otherwise, the mere posting of an image on the Internet by the copyright owner does not transfer the imagine into the public domain. Any subsequent copying must either be with consent or be allowed under Fair Dealing. As well, there is no requirement for the copyright owner to include a copyright caption or watermark with the image (but doing so certainly helps demonstrate that you do want to protect your rights). In the present instance, the copying was done by a newspaper. In most countries News Reporting is accepted as a situation where Fair Dealing generally applies, subject to there being no gross abuse of other criteria. The newpaper in question is probably so used to this arrangement that they don't even think about it case by case. However, even if this was Fair Dealing, they're in the wrong in at least one way: the person or organization making the copy should still acknowledge the source used. In practice, your options are very limited - any damages have to be weighed against lawyer fees and the chances of the defense of Fair Dealing being accepted by a court. Personally, if it were me, I'd write to protest their use of the image without any apparent attempt to seek permission and their subsequent failure to identify the source of the image used. It's not unreasonable to hope for them to add a caption to the image on their website, thus properly citing and acknowledging the source. Cynic that I am, I doubt they would agree to a correction notice in the print edition. Steve --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: Cambridge News article on Human Sundial unveiling
Hi Mac, As I mentioned in my reply to Steve, I'm not the actual owner or creator of the image, but I have been specifically authorized to use it as my business's logo and therefore have a direct interest in how it's used. I therefore can't really modify the image, but would instead have to create a whole new one if I wanted to apply any changes. However, I find that the image does an excellent job in conveying the concept of what a Human Sundial look like, specifically our distinctive two ring design, as well as how it's used. The position of the person standing on the Date Scale also quite accurately represents how people actually tend to position themselves when using the SunClock. In addition, their being positioned on the month itself instead of on the center line tends to help with the accuracy of the SunClock by offsetting the small time-telling errors brought on by the Equation of Time. The actual owner of the image, Douglas Hunt of Modern Sunclocks (www.sunclocks.com), may have additional comments to add in regards to specific details of the line drawing. Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-792-4823 www.sunclocks.net On May 9, 2014, at 18:27, Mac Oglesby ogle...@sover.net wrote: Hi Paul, Have you ever considered modifying your logo drawing so that the person using the dial is shown standing at a more proper location, such as on the center line of the dates display? Best wishes, Mac Oglesby Hello Frank, I have noticed in the recent posting about a Cambridge News article on a Human Sundial unveiling, as well as from a few other miscellaneous web sources, that my business' logo (attached) is sometimes used to illustrate to concept of a Human Sundial. Although I realize that the line drawing in question does a good job of clearly showing at a glance what a Human Sundial is, this has so far so far always been done without authorization. Since you are involved in the official opening, I was wondering if you would happen to know why the Cambridge News article would choose to use the illustration instead of actual photos of the new Human Sundial. Even though it was only to be officially opened on Thursday (Yesterday), the sundial must certainly have already been built, and actual photos of it must be available. Would you have pictures of the actual sundial? Also, I was wondering if anybody could tell me what are the typical requirements for people to be allowed to use random copyrighted images from the internet, and what my rights and possible recourses are in such cases of the unauthorized use of my logo. Lastly, I see that Bill Gottesman is mentionned as a prominent sundial designer by NASS, but I'm curious as to what is the 'Bill Gottesman stance' stance to which you refer. Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-793-6161 www.sunclocks.net On May 6, 2014, at 10:14 AM, Frank King frank.k...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: Dear All, By chance, Cambridge is unveiling (?) yet another sundial on Thursday. See: http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Its-time-human-sundial-set-to-be-unveiled-on-Cambridges-Jesus-Green-2014050607.htm This has nothing to do with me but I have been asked to accompany the Lord Lieutenant, perhaps to ensure that he knows what to do. I shall advise him to take up the Bill Gottesman stance. I wonder whether he will cooperate! I think I shall wear the traditional Dress Uniform of the University Clock-Keeper. Frank King Cambridge, U.K. Hello Frank, I have noticed in the recent posting about a Cambridge News article on a Human Sundial unveiling, as well as from a few other miscellaneous web sources, that my business' logo (attached) is sometimes used to illustrate to concept of a Human Sundial. Although I realize that the line drawing in question does a good job of clearly showing at a glance what a Human Sundial is, this has so far so far always been done without authorization. Since you are involved in the official opening, I was wondering if you would happen to know why the Cambridge News article would choose to use the illustration instead of actual photos of the new Human Sundial. Even though it was only to be officially opened on Thursday (Yesterday), the sundial must certainly have already been built, and actual photos of it must be available. Would you have pictures of the actual sundial? Also, I was wondering if anybody could tell me what are the typical requirements for people to be allowed to use random copyrighted images from the internet, and what my rights and possible recourses are in such cases of the unauthorized use of my logo. Lastly, I see that Bill Gottesman is mentionned as a prominent sundial designer by NASS, but I'm curious as to what is the 'Bill Gottesman stance' stance to which you refer. Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-793-6161
Re: paper sundials
Hello Fabio, Frazer Elementary's 'Eagle Eyes' program seems like an excellent one for encouraging young students to widen their horizons and excel by engaging in such enrichment activities. I found your message on paper sundials to be particularly relevant to me because I provide plans in North America by sunclocks.com for building large ground-level Customized Interactive Human Sundials, which interactively use a person's shadow to tell correct local clock time. Although our plans are for building Human Sundials of about 6 metres (20 feet) in diameter, students can very easily create their own small working models of their custom SunClock made from paper or cardboard. Of course, since these models are so simple and cheap to produce, students can each make their own to take home. Although many schools build full sized SunClocks as fun and educational DIY projects for them to complete with the students, building small scale-models is a popular teaching method for schools that don't have suitable ground area. Using a pencil as a gnomon instead of an actual person as is done with a full scale Human Sundial, they can then see for themselves that it indicates the correct time throughout the year. The SunClock also clearly demonstrates the changing seasons during the year by the movement of it's gnomon along the central Date-scale. Ciao, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-792-4823 On Jan 7, 2014, at 4:27 PM, Fabio nonvedolora fabio.sav...@nonvedolora.it wrote: hi all I’m in contact with Judy Birmingham (jmbirm...@gmail.com), a teacher of the Frazer Elementary School, Canton, Ohio. She found the paper sundials of Sundal Atlas and contacted me to have more info, she thinks to use them for an educational project. I suggested her to report her activity here, may be someone is interested to exchange info about educational initiatives, I report a piece of her email: We are just doing a short unit on sundials, as part of our study of the Renaissance in England and, Shakespeare's play, The Tempest. The name of our school is Frazer Elementary School, in Canton, Ohio. My students are a small group of advanced 4th-grader (ages 9-10), and I just meet with them once or twice a week to provide enrichment activities and keep them challenged. The shortcut to our website is http://eagleeyes.shorturl.com. Over that to make paper sundials, she used the same drawings (the horizontal ones) to mould clay models. I uploaded some photos in the home page of Sundial Atlas www.sundialatlas.eu ciao Fabio Fabio Savian fabio.sav...@nonvedolora.it www.nonvedolora.eu Paderno Dugnano, Milano, Italy 45° 34' 10'' N, 9° 10' 9'' E, GMT+1 (DST +2) --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
By my experience, logic rarely catches on and tradition usually wins out... On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:11 PM, Douglas Vogt dbv...@yahoo.com wrote: Good comment and a logical alternative to the confusion. If people use MS Office and wish to use this format, it must be changed in Control Panel. When the pattern is added, the dates in Excel, Word, etc. default to the new format, at least the short date. Open Office seems to be able to handle any format regardless of Control Panel settings. But would logic catch on? From: Thaddeus Weakley thadweak...@yahoo.com To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13 I too strongly agree with Paul. The /MM/DD format sorts numerically; something that I gravitated to when a lad with database set-up and administration. This format also seems the most logical to me. In the grand scope of things, the millenium, century, year, month, day typically take precedence in that order. And now that we increasingly are interacting with a global market - a consistant, logical, and readily understood data format seems as important as ever Thad Weakley American expat in Montreal, Quebec Sunclocks North America sunclock...@icloud.com wrote: = This has always been a pet peeve of mine! All of these differing date formats are confusing, as you can never really be sure which one people are using. Here in Canada, it's even worse because some people put the month first like in the USA and others put the day first and yet others put the year first! Nobody can be sure if something like 10/11/12 means October 11th 2012, November 10th 2012 or November 12th 2010! At least now that we're in 2013, some of that confusion is gone for the next 87 years. I think that the best way which everyone in the world understands is to start a four digit year: /mm/dd, and all the confusion goes away with the simple addition of two characters. Plus the dates can be easily sorted numerically. It's pretty much the only date format I ever use unless I spell out the month. Paul Ratto SunClocks North America --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial -- Peter Mayer Discipline of Politics International Studies (POLIS) School of History Politics http://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/historypolitics/ The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph : +61 8 8313 5609 Fax : +61 8 8313 3443 e-mail: peter.ma...@adelaide.edu.au CRICOS Provider Number 00123M --- This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
This has always been a pet peeve of mine! All of these differing date formats are confusing, as you can never really be sure which one people are using. Here in Canada, it's even worse because some people put the month first like in the USA and others put the day first and yet others put the year first! Nobody can be sure if something like 10/11/12 means October 11th 2012, November 10th 2012 or November 12th 2010! At least now that we're in 2013, some of that confusion is gone for the next 87 years. I think that the best way which everyone in the world understands is to start a four digit year: /mm/dd, and all the confusion goes away with the simple addition of two characters. Plus the dates can be easily sorted numerically. It's pretty much the only date format I ever use unless I spell out the month. Paul Ratto SunClocks North America On Nov 12, 2013, at 1:53 PM, David Patte ₯ dpa...@relativedata.com wrote: In Canada, I am waiting for 13-12-11 10:09 = 2013, December 11th at 10:09 in the morning. On 2013-11-12 13:43, Willy Leenders wrote: You can also come to Europe, Bill. In my country, 11/12/13 is the eleventh day of December 2013 Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 12-nov-2013, om 19:18 heeft Bill Gottesman het volgende geschreven: Did anyone catch this auspicious moment, 08:09:10 11/12/13? I missed it, but will go for another try this PM. -Bill --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial -- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: BOOK: Sundials: An Illustrated History of Portable Dials - H. Higton
Hello Darek, The two books are certainly the same book, with different covers. The have the exact same dimensions and number of pages, and more importantly, they have the same ISBN, which is unique to every book. You'll note that the shipping cost to Poland on the second book is lower than on the first. Thanks, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-792-4823 On 2013-09-18, at 9:10 AM, Darek Oczki dhar...@o2.pl wrote: Dear Friends I need your advise. I found on eBay two listings offering 2 books with the very same title but having different covers. Here they are: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sundials-An-Illustrated-History-of-Portable-Dials-Hester-Higton-9780856675232-/390653600984 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sundials-Hester-Higton-9780856675232-Book-/400552337200 Are these 2 different books or it's the same thing with 2 alternative covers? I would be very grateful for any help. -- Best regards Darek Oczki 52N 21E Warsaw, Poland GNOMONIKA.pl Sundials in Poland http://gnomonika.pl --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: A big new analemmatic sundial on Malta
Hi everyone, I mostly agree with Roger that size doesn't matter, but only in general terms when talking about human sundials. I feel that overly large analemmatic sundials are not really suitable to be effective Human Sundials, human sized gnomon's simply being too small to reach the hour markers. Conversely, if the sundial is too small, then a human sized shadow will tend to overwhelm the hour markers. However, I am nevertheless not surprised by the popularity of the Penticton sundial because the interactive aspect of Human Sundials generally tend to make them very popular wherever they may be. In addition, analemmatic sundials have the added problem of shadows being too long in the winter and too short in the summer, which is why I like the distinctive design of SunClock style Human Sundials which is designed with two rings of hour markers - one for the shorter shadows of 'summer' time, and the other for the longer shadows of 'winter' time. In addition to the added accuracy that this brings, along with being adjusted for clock time as opposed to sun time, I am personally of the opinion that this double ring design is actually more aesthetically pleasing than a regular single ring design. If you're interested in knowing more about SunClock Human Sundials, you can learn more by visiting http://www.sunclocks.com. Thanks, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-792-4823 On 2013-06-18, at 23:19, Roger Bailey rtbai...@telus.net wrote: Hello Paul and all, Size doesn't matter. It is how you use your tool that is important. The shadows from people as gnomons are only so long. What is the use of an instrument when the indicator does not reach the scale? My NASS presentation How Long is My Shadow discusses this issue and offers a spreadsheet to calculate shadow lengths. See presentation http://www.walkingshadow.info/Publications/How%20Long.pdf The logic is now better expressed in Helmut Sonderegger's Alemma program. See http://www.helson.at/sun.htm Typically 5 m is a good size for an analemmatic sundial with a human gnomon. There is a larger analemmatic sundial In Penticton British Columbia, Canada. Here is a link to the NASS registry.. http://sundials.org/index.php/component/sundials/onedial/240 This Penticton dial is 10.7 m x 19.8 m. It is a BIG sundial and can be seen with Google Earth at 49°27.189' N, 119°34.972' W. Although it was built in 1984 by a well known sculptor with design advice from a professional astronomer, it is a poor design for many reasons. It is too big. The shadows fall well short of the hour posts. The large posts marking the solstices and equinox are displaced from the date line. It has an analemma shape marked with the dates to correct for the equation of time. This correction is popular but it does not work except at noon. The original sundial was made of wood and quickly rotted away on this exposed sandy beach. The current model using concrete may last longer. However it is an attractive popular feature on the beach in Penticton. Hopefully some using the dial will have the curiosity of a three year old and ask Why and remain curious after the typical adult response, Because, that is the way it is. Sundials taught me to ask Why and seek answers beyond Because. Regards, Roger Bailey Walking Shadow Designs From: Sunclocks North America Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2013 6:26 PM To: Sundial Mailing List Subject: Re: A big new analemmatic sundial on Malta Hello All, Congratulations to Mr. David Grima and to Stella Maris College for their accomplishment in building a beautiful Human Sundial, which is very nice and constructed with great looking materials and decorations. I would like to point out, however, that it is not the world's largest sundial, as the timesofmalta.com article has indicated, although it may be the worlds largest sundial 'made out of volcanic stone', as Mr. Grima was careful to point out in the video. There is at least one Human Sundial that I know of, located at 'Chatsworth House' in the UK that has a diameter of eight meters, or one meter larger than the Malta sundial. In addition, the Chatsworth House Human Sundial is of a SunClock style that is corrected to indicate clock time instead of Sun Time, and which is also set-up to automatically adjust for Daylight Saving Time. Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-792-4823 On 2013-06-12, at 9:46 AM, Perit Alexei Pace a...@onvol.net wrote: Hello Jim, Thank you for your email, It was great working on this project (I made the calculations and concept design), which will hopefully help many students appreciate the beauty of science and art. Best regards, Alexei Malta On 12 June 2013 14:23, J. Tallman jtall...@artisanindustrials.com wrote: Hello All, Here is an interesting link to a video/story about a new analemmatic sundial installation on Malta – it seems
Re: A big new analemmatic sundial on Malta
Hello All, Congratulations to Mr. David Grima and to Stella Maris College for their accomplishment in building a beautiful Human Sundial, which is very nice and constructed with great looking materials and decorations. I would like to point out, however, that it is not the world's largest sundial, as the timesofmalta.com article has indicated, although it may be the worlds largest sundial 'made out of volcanic stone', as Mr. Grima was careful to point out in the video. There is at least one Human Sundial that I know of, located at 'Chatsworth House' in the UK that has a diameter of eight meters, or one meter larger than the Malta sundial. In addition, the Chatsworth House Human Sundial is of a SunClock style that is corrected to indicate clock time instead of Sun Time, and which is also set-up to automatically adjust for Daylight Saving Time. Thank you, Paul Ratto SunClocks North America 438-792-4823 On 2013-06-12, at 9:46 AM, Perit Alexei Pace a...@onvol.net wrote: Hello Jim, Thank you for your email, It was great working on this project (I made the calculations and concept design), which will hopefully help many students appreciate the beauty of science and art. Best regards, Alexei Malta On 12 June 2013 14:23, J. Tallman jtall...@artisanindustrials.com wrote: Hello All, Here is an interesting link to a video/story about a new analemmatic sundial installation on Malta – it seems that the dial type continues to spread, especially at schools, and this is a really nice one! http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20130611/local/School-awaits-sundial-that-will-last-a-century.473347 Best, Jim Tallman www.spectrasundial.com www.artisanindustrials.com jtall...@artisanindustrials.com 513-253-5497 --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
