Re: [SPAM] Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
The current human activity takes place in the days and hours rather than years and seconds therefore good practice should be hours and days emphasis on the first places (the most important), then month and minutes on the second places and the rest. DD.MM. HH:MM:SS -Original Message- From: Karl Billeter Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 1:43 AM To: Dave Bell Cc: sundial@uni-koeln.de Subject: [SPAM] Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13 On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 03:01:46PM -0800, Dave Bell wrote: As for y/m/d, I completely agree, but for a full sort, we should also write hh:mm:ss ! As in ISO 8601? date(1) ... -I[TIMESPEC], --iso-8601[=TIMESPEC] output date/time in ISO 8601 format. TIMESPEC=`date' for date only (the default), `hours', `minutes', `seconds', or `ns' for date and time to the indicated precision. karl@redgum:~$ date -Is 2013-11-14T11:42:17+1100 Karl --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
I too strongly agree with Paul. The /MM/DD format sorts numerically; something that I gravitated to when a lad with database set-up and administration. This format also seems the most logical to me. In the grand scope of things, the millenium, century, year, month, day typically take precedence in that order. And now that we increasingly are interacting with a global market - a consistant, logical, and readily understood data format seems as important as ever Thad Weakley American expat in Montreal, Quebec Sunclocks North America sunclock...@icloud.com wrote: = This has always been a pet peeve of mine! All of these differing date formats are confusing, as you can never really be sure which one people are using. Here in Canada, it's even worse because some people put the month first like in the USA and others put the day first and yet others put the year first! Nobody can be sure if something like 10/11/12 means October 11th 2012, November 10th 2012 or November 12th 2010! At least now that we're in 2013, some of that confusion is gone for the next 87 years. I think that the best way which everyone in the world understands is to start a four digit year: /mm/dd, and all the confusion goes away with the simple addition of two characters. Plus the dates can be easily sorted numerically. It's pretty much the only date format I ever use unless I spell out the month. Paul Ratto SunClocks North America --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial -- Peter Mayer Discipline of Politics International Studies (POLIS) School of History Politics http://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/historypolitics/ The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph : +61 8 8313 5609 Fax : +61 8 8313 3443 e-mail: peter.ma...@adelaide.edu.au CRICOS Provider Number 00123M --- This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
As for y/m/d, I completely agree, but for a full sort, we should also write hh:mm:ss ! Dave Sent from my iPad On Nov 13, 2013, at 1:43 PM, Thaddeus Weakley thadweak...@yahoo.com wrote: I too strongly agree with Paul. The /MM/DD format sorts numerically; something that I gravitated to when a lad with database set-up and administration. This format also seems the most logical to me. In the grand scope of things, the millenium, century, year, month, day typically take precedence in that order. And now that we increasingly are interacting with a global market - a consistant, logical, and readily understood data format seems as important as ever Thad Weakley American expat in Montreal, Quebec Sunclocks North America sunclock...@icloud.com wrote: = This has always been a pet peeve of mine! All of these differing date formats are confusing, as you can never really be sure which one people are using. Here in Canada, it's even worse because some people put the month first like in the USA and others put the day first and yet others put the year first! Nobody can be sure if something like 10/11/12 means October 11th 2012, November 10th 2012 or November 12th 2010! At least now that we're in 2013, some of that confusion is gone for the next 87 years. I think that the best way which everyone in the world understands is to start a four digit year: /mm/dd, and all the confusion goes away with the simple addition of two characters. Plus the dates can be easily sorted numerically. It's pretty much the only date format I ever use unless I spell out the month. Paul Ratto SunClocks North America --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial -- Peter Mayer Discipline of Politics International Studies (POLIS) School of History Politics http://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/historypolitics/ The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph : +61 8 8313 5609 Fax : +61 8 8313 3443 e-mail: peter.ma...@adelaide.edu.au CRICOS Provider Number 00123M --- This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
Good comment and a logical alternative to the confusion. If people use MS Office and wish to use this format, it must be changed in Control Panel. When the pattern is added, the dates in Excel, Word, etc. default to the new format, at least the short date. Open Office seems to be able to handle any format regardless of Control Panel settings. But would logic catch on? From: Thaddeus Weakley thadweak...@yahoo.com To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13 I too strongly agree with Paul. The /MM/DD format sorts numerically; something that I gravitated to when a lad with database set-up and administration. This format also seems the most logical to me. In the grand scope of things, the millenium, century, year, month, day typically take precedence in that order. And now that we increasingly are interacting with a global market - a consistant, logical, and readily understood data format seems as important as ever Thad Weakley American expat in Montreal, Quebec Sunclocks North America sunclock...@icloud.com wrote: = This has always been a pet peeve of mine! All of these differing date formats are confusing, as you can never really be sure which one people are using. Here in Canada, it's even worse because some people put the month first like in the USA and others put the day first and yet others put the year first! Nobody can be sure if something like 10/11/12 means October 11th 2012, November 10th 2012 or November 12th 2010! At least now that we're in 2013, some of that confusion is gone for the next 87 years. I think that the best way which everyone in the world understands is to start a four digit year: /mm/dd, and all the confusion goes away with the simple addition of two characters. Plus the dates can be easily sorted numerically. It's pretty much the only date format I ever use unless I spell out the month. Paul Ratto SunClocks North America --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial -- Peter Mayer Discipline of Politics International Studies (POLIS) School of History Politics http://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/historypolitics/ The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph : +61 8 8313 5609 Fax : +61 8 8313 3443 e-mail: peter.ma...@adelaide.edu.au CRICOS Provider Number 00123M --- This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
By my experience, logic rarely catches on and tradition usually wins out... On Nov 13, 2013, at 7:11 PM, Douglas Vogt dbv...@yahoo.com wrote: Good comment and a logical alternative to the confusion. If people use MS Office and wish to use this format, it must be changed in Control Panel. When the pattern is added, the dates in Excel, Word, etc. default to the new format, at least the short date. Open Office seems to be able to handle any format regardless of Control Panel settings. But would logic catch on? From: Thaddeus Weakley thadweak...@yahoo.com To: sundial@uni-koeln.de Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 4:43 PM Subject: Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13 I too strongly agree with Paul. The /MM/DD format sorts numerically; something that I gravitated to when a lad with database set-up and administration. This format also seems the most logical to me. In the grand scope of things, the millenium, century, year, month, day typically take precedence in that order. And now that we increasingly are interacting with a global market - a consistant, logical, and readily understood data format seems as important as ever Thad Weakley American expat in Montreal, Quebec Sunclocks North America sunclock...@icloud.com wrote: = This has always been a pet peeve of mine! All of these differing date formats are confusing, as you can never really be sure which one people are using. Here in Canada, it's even worse because some people put the month first like in the USA and others put the day first and yet others put the year first! Nobody can be sure if something like 10/11/12 means October 11th 2012, November 10th 2012 or November 12th 2010! At least now that we're in 2013, some of that confusion is gone for the next 87 years. I think that the best way which everyone in the world understands is to start a four digit year: /mm/dd, and all the confusion goes away with the simple addition of two characters. Plus the dates can be easily sorted numerically. It's pretty much the only date format I ever use unless I spell out the month. Paul Ratto SunClocks North America --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial -- Peter Mayer Discipline of Politics International Studies (POLIS) School of History Politics http://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/historypolitics/ The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph : +61 8 8313 5609 Fax : +61 8 8313 3443 e-mail: peter.ma...@adelaide.edu.au CRICOS Provider Number 00123M --- This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 03:01:46PM -0800, Dave Bell wrote: As for y/m/d, I completely agree, but for a full sort, we should also write hh:mm:ss ! As in ISO 8601? date(1) ... -I[TIMESPEC], --iso-8601[=TIMESPEC] output date/time in ISO 8601 format. TIMESPEC=`date' for date only (the default), `hours', `minutes', `seconds', or `ns' for date and time to the indicated precision. karl@redgum:~$ date -Is 2013-11-14T11:42:17+1100 Karl --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
08:09:10 11/12/13
Did anyone catch this auspicious moment, 08:09:10 11/12/13? I missed it, but will go for another try this PM. -Bill --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
You can also come to Europe, Bill. In my country, 11/12/13 is the eleventh day of December 2013 Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 12-nov-2013, om 19:18 heeft Bill Gottesman het volgende geschreven: Did anyone catch this auspicious moment, 08:09:10 11/12/13? I missed it, but will go for another try this PM. -Bill --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
In Canada, I am waiting for 13-12-11 10:09 = 2013, December 11th at 10:09 in the morning. On 2013-11-12 13:43, Willy Leenders wrote: You can also come to Europe, Bill. In my country, 11/12/13 is the eleventh day of December 2013 Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 12-nov-2013, om 19:18 heeft Bill Gottesman het volgende geschreven: Did anyone catch this auspicious moment, 08:09:10 11/12/13? I missed it, but will go for another try this PM. -Bill --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial -- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
Come over to Europe and get a second chance. Here we have 11/12/13 in December (and be present at 14:15!) Thibaud At 19:18 12-11-2013, Bill Gottesman wrote: Did anyone catch this auspicious moment, 08:09:10 11/12/13? I missed it, but will go for another try this PM. -Bill --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
This has always been a pet peeve of mine! All of these differing date formats are confusing, as you can never really be sure which one people are using. Here in Canada, it's even worse because some people put the month first like in the USA and others put the day first and yet others put the year first! Nobody can be sure if something like 10/11/12 means October 11th 2012, November 10th 2012 or November 12th 2010! At least now that we're in 2013, some of that confusion is gone for the next 87 years. I think that the best way which everyone in the world understands is to start a four digit year: /mm/dd, and all the confusion goes away with the simple addition of two characters. Plus the dates can be easily sorted numerically. It's pretty much the only date format I ever use unless I spell out the month. Paul Ratto SunClocks North America On Nov 12, 2013, at 1:53 PM, David Patte ₯ dpa...@relativedata.com wrote: In Canada, I am waiting for 13-12-11 10:09 = 2013, December 11th at 10:09 in the morning. On 2013-11-12 13:43, Willy Leenders wrote: You can also come to Europe, Bill. In my country, 11/12/13 is the eleventh day of December 2013 Willy Leenders Hasselt in Flanders (Belgium) Visit my website about the sundials in the province of Limburg (Flanders) with a section 'worth knowing about sundials' (mostly in Dutch): http://www.wijzerweb.be Op 12-nov-2013, om 19:18 heeft Bill Gottesman het volgende geschreven: Did anyone catch this auspicious moment, 08:09:10 11/12/13? I missed it, but will go for another try this PM. -Bill --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial -- --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
I couldn't agree more about the confusion Paul. But as an Australian, I find the US system close to an abomination. But the non-US system(s) will gradually fade as Bill Gates continues his inexorable Americanisation (i.e. bastardisation) of the English language, and people are too lazy or stupid to change the formats to e.g. Australian English and dates rather than accept his defaults. For many years I worked in a herbarium where we had plant collections going back to the 1700s. Dates were always given as day / month / year in an unambiguous format using roman numerals for month: 13.xi.2013. Because the collections covered several centuries, the year was never abbreviated to two digits. It's not just dates that are confusing, it's also time of day. I can only shake my head at Virgin Airlines which lists all the departure and arrival times on their website in 12-hour format, but uses 24-hour on the e-tickets. At least the new urban public transport timetables released in Sydney a few weeks ago have changed from 12-hour to 24-hour format. I have to confess to arriving at Sydney airport for a 6:30 flight, but when I tried to check-in, I was told it was only possible 4 hours before departure, and my flight was at 18:30! As Homer J. would say D'oh! Cheers, John Dr John Pickard john.pick...@bigpond.com Sunclocks North America sunclock...@icloud.com wrote: = This has always been a pet peeve of mine! All of these differing date formats are confusing, as you can never really be sure which one people are using. Here in Canada, it's even worse because some people put the month first like in the USA and others put the day first and yet others put the year first! Nobody can be sure if something like 10/11/12 means October 11th 2012, November 10th 2012 or November 12th 2010! At least now that we're in 2013, some of that confusion is gone for the next 87 years. I think that the best way which everyone in the world understands is to start a four digit year: /mm/dd, and all the confusion goes away with the simple addition of two characters. Plus the dates can be easily sorted numerically. It's pretty much the only date format I ever use unless I spell out the month. Paul Ratto SunClocks North America --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
Re: 08:09:10 11/12/13
Hi, My father told me that during WWII in London, the 'date problem' was a constant hazard between the British and the American commands, and that, as in John Pickard's herbarium, they eventually standardised on using Roman Numerals for the months. best wishes, Peter On 13/11/2013 10:17 AM, John Pickard wrote: I couldn't agree more about the confusion Paul. But as an Australian, I find the US system close to an abomination. But the non-US system(s) will gradually fade as Bill Gates continues his inexorable Americanisation (i.e. bastardisation) of the English language, and people are too lazy or stupid to change the formats to e.g. Australian English and dates rather than accept his defaults. For many years I worked in a herbarium where we had plant collections going back to the 1700s. Dates were always given as day / month / year in an unambiguous format using roman numerals for month: 13.xi.2013. Because the collections covered several centuries, the year was never abbreviated to two digits. It's not just dates that are confusing, it's also time of day. I can only shake my head at Virgin Airlines which lists all the departure and arrival times on their website in 12-hour format, but uses 24-hour on the e-tickets. At least the new urban public transport timetables released in Sydney a few weeks ago have changed from 12-hour to 24-hour format. I have to confess to arriving at Sydney airport for a 6:30 flight, but when I tried to check-in, I was told it was only possible 4 hours before departure, and my flight was at 18:30! As Homer J. would say D'oh! Cheers, John Dr John Pickard john.pick...@bigpond.com Sunclocks North America sunclock...@icloud.com wrote: = This has always been a pet peeve of mine! All of these differing date formats are confusing, as you can never really be sure which one people are using. Here in Canada, it's even worse because some people put the month first like in the USA and others put the day first and yet others put the year first! Nobody can be sure if something like 10/11/12 means October 11th 2012, November 10th 2012 or November 12th 2010! At least now that we're in 2013, some of that confusion is gone for the next 87 years. I think that the best way which everyone in the world understands is to start a four digit year: /mm/dd, and all the confusion goes away with the simple addition of two characters. Plus the dates can be easily sorted numerically. It's pretty much the only date format I ever use unless I spell out the month. Paul Ratto SunClocks North America --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial -- Peter Mayer Discipline of Politics International Studies (POLIS) School of History Politics http://www.arts.adelaide.edu.au/historypolitics/ The University of Adelaide, AUSTRALIA 5005 Ph : +61 8 8313 5609 Fax : +61 8 8313 3443 e-mail: peter.ma...@adelaide.edu.au CRICOS Provider Number 00123M --- This email message is intended only for the addressee(s) and contains information that may be confidential and/or copyright. If you are not the intended recipient please notify the sender by reply email and immediately delete this email. Use, disclosure or reproduction of this email by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) is strictly prohibited. No representation is made that this email or any attachments are free of viruses. Virus scanning is recommended and is the responsibility of the recipient. --- https://lists.uni-koeln.de/mailman/listinfo/sundial
