Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[GérardJan]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:


On 7/11/2017 8:18 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:


Anyone here not using or spoofing Firefox able to get through, or
is that the key?


Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (x64) Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64;
rv:49.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.46
"Advertise Firefox compatibility" disabled

I had no problem reaching and then using
.


Yep, disabling AFC did it. Thanks.




Dear Paul,

my wifi test us as follows, see attached


--
GérardJan Vinkesteijn-Rudersdorff
http://www.ciudadpatricia.es
https://facebook.com/gerardjan.vinkesteijn

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/52.0 
SeaMonkey/2.49a2

Build identifier: 20161122013001

I never met a man I didn't want to fight.
-- Lyle Alzado, professional football lineman

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Ed Mullen]

On 7/12/17 at 8:43 PM, Ed Mullen's prodigious digits fired off with 
great aplomb:
On 7/12/17 at 2:26 PM, Paul B. Gallagher's prodigious digits fired off 
with great aplomb:

Ed Mullen wrote:

On 7/11/17 at 6:49 PM, Paul B. Gallagher's prodigious digits fired off
with great aplomb:

Ed Mullen wrote:


All of those links open so fast I can't count.

But, then again:




How'd you do that? Xfinity absolutely refuses to cooperate with me --
won't show your results, won't run tests -- because I'm not using one
of their approved browsers.

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:49.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/49.0 SeaMonkey/2.46



Not sure why.  I have never had trouble with Comcast/Xfinity using SM.

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/54.0 SeaMonkey/2.51


I guess they must be sniffing for a higher version than mine.

This is like going to a nightclub where the bouncer will only let the 
kewl kids in. But WTF do they care what I'm running?




Clueless site designers.

There are standards and those designers are clueless about them.





The first thing to do is create a bookmark

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri='+escape(window.location))>

Go to a page and execute that bookmark.

It's not definitive but it is a good clue as to how well crafted that 
page is.



--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One says to the other: "Does this 
taste funny to you?"

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Ed Mullen]

On 7/12/17 at 2:26 PM, Paul B. Gallagher's prodigious digits fired off 
with great aplomb:

Ed Mullen wrote:

On 7/11/17 at 6:49 PM, Paul B. Gallagher's prodigious digits fired off
with great aplomb:

Ed Mullen wrote:


All of those links open so fast I can't count.

But, then again:




How'd you do that? Xfinity absolutely refuses to cooperate with me --
won't show your results, won't run tests -- because I'm not using one
of their approved browsers.

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:49.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/49.0 SeaMonkey/2.46



Not sure why.  I have never had trouble with Comcast/Xfinity using SM.

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/54.0 SeaMonkey/2.51


I guess they must be sniffing for a higher version than mine.

This is like going to a nightclub where the bouncer will only let the 
kewl kids in. But WTF do they care what I'm running?




Clueless site designers.

There are standards and those designers are clueless about them.



--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Nothing says poor craftsmanship more than wrinkled duct tape.
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[David E. Ross]

On 7/12/2017 11:16 AM, mozilla-lists.mbou...@spamgourmet.com wrote:
> Ed Mullen wrote:
>> On 7/11/17 at 11:18 PM, Paul B. Gallagher's prodigious digits fired
>> off with great aplomb:
>>> Hank wrote:
>>>
 I use http://speedtest.xfinity.com/ and it works. If I add www.
 before speedtest it is blocked.
>>>
>>> I see that your user agent does not contain a reference to
>>> SeaMonkey:
>>>
>>> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0)
>>> Gecko/20100101 Firefox/64.0
>>>
>>> Anyone here not using or spoofing Firefox able to get through, or
>>> is that the key?
>>>
>>
>> I did have "advertise FF" turned on. I turned it off and still have
>> no trouble with Xfinity.
>>
>> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101
>> SeaMonkey/2.51
> 
> With SeaMonkey 2.46, I get an error with "Advertise Firefox 
> compatibility" on (which adds "Firefox/49.0" to the UA string). With 
> "Advertise Firefox compatibility" off (so it just reports SeaMonkey) 
> Ed's results are displayed.
> 
> You have a newer version of SeaMonkey, which will include a newer 
> version of Firefox in the UA string with "Advertise Firefox" enabled. 
> I'd guess that, with "Advertise Firefox" on, speedtest.xfinity.com finds 
> the Firefox part of the string and uses that to check if it's a recent 
> version, while without it either goes by the SeaMonkey version or (if it 
> doesn't recognise SeaMonkey at all) falls back to allowing the page to 
> be shown.
> 
> There do seem to be a number of sites turning up lately which work with 
> SeaMonkey WITHOUT "Advertise Firefox compatibility", but not WITH it...!
> 

With "Advertise Firefox compatibility", the user agent (UA) string is
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:49.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/49.0 SeaMonkey/2.46
Some Web sites reject my browser with that, not because of the
"Firefox/49.0 but because of the "SeaMonkey/2.46".

I generally run with "Advertise Firefox compatibility" disabled.  If
that causes a problem, I use PrefBar's "User Agent" to have the UA string
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:49.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.46, NOT Firefox/49.0

If that does not work, I user PrefBar to get
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:53.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/53.0

-- 
David Ross


President Trump now denies there are any tapes that
recorded his conversations with ex-FBI Director Comey.
Between when Trump hinted there might be such tapes
and his denial, there was sufficient time to destroy
any tapes.
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Ed Mullen wrote:

On 7/11/17 at 6:49 PM, Paul B. Gallagher's prodigious digits fired off
with great aplomb:

Ed Mullen wrote:


All of those links open so fast I can't count.

But, then again:




How'd you do that? Xfinity absolutely refuses to cooperate with me --
won't show your results, won't run tests -- because I'm not using one
of their approved browsers.

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:49.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/49.0 SeaMonkey/2.46



Not sure why.  I have never had trouble with Comcast/Xfinity using SM.

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/54.0 SeaMonkey/2.51


I guess they must be sniffing for a higher version than mine.

This is like going to a nightclub where the bouncer will only let the 
kewl kids in. But WTF do they care what I'm running?


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[mozilla-lists . mbourne]

Ed Mullen wrote:

On 7/11/17 at 11:18 PM, Paul B. Gallagher's prodigious digits fired
off with great aplomb:

Hank wrote:


I use http://speedtest.xfinity.com/ and it works. If I add www.
before speedtest it is blocked.


I see that your user agent does not contain a reference to
SeaMonkey:

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/64.0

Anyone here not using or spoofing Firefox able to get through, or
is that the key?



I did have "advertise FF" turned on. I turned it off and still have
no trouble with Xfinity.

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.51


With SeaMonkey 2.46, I get an error with "Advertise Firefox 
compatibility" on (which adds "Firefox/49.0" to the UA string). With 
"Advertise Firefox compatibility" off (so it just reports SeaMonkey) 
Ed's results are displayed.


You have a newer version of SeaMonkey, which will include a newer 
version of Firefox in the UA string with "Advertise Firefox" enabled. 
I'd guess that, with "Advertise Firefox" on, speedtest.xfinity.com finds 
the Firefox part of the string and uses that to check if it's a recent 
version, while without it either goes by the SeaMonkey version or (if it 
doesn't recognise SeaMonkey at all) falls back to allowing the page to 
be shown.


There do seem to be a number of sites turning up lately which work with 
SeaMonkey WITHOUT "Advertise Firefox compatibility", but not WITH it...!


--
Mark.

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Ed Mullen]

On 7/11/17 at 11:18 PM, Paul B. Gallagher's prodigious digits fired off 
with great aplomb:

Hank wrote:


I use http://speedtest.xfinity.com/ and it works. If I add www. before
speedtest it is blocked.


I see that your user agent does not contain a reference to SeaMonkey:

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/64.0


Anyone here not using or spoofing Firefox able to get through, or is 
that the key?




I did have "advertise FF" turned on. I turned it off and still have no 
trouble with Xfinity.


Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.51



--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Why do we buy hot dogs in packages of ten and buns in packages of eight?
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Ed Mullen]

On 7/11/17 at 6:49 PM, Paul B. Gallagher's prodigious digits fired off 
with great aplomb:

Ed Mullen wrote:


All of those links open so fast I can't count.

But, then again:




How'd you do that? Xfinity absolutely refuses to cooperate with me -- 
won't show your results, won't run tests -- because I'm not using one of 
their approved browsers.


User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:49.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/49.0 SeaMonkey/2.46




Not sure why.  I have never had trouble with Comcast/Xfinity using SM.

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:54.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/54.0 SeaMonkey/2.51


--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
"Love is like war: easy to begin but very hard to stop." - H. L. Mencken
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

David E. Ross wrote:


On 7/11/2017 8:18 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:


Anyone here not using or spoofing Firefox able to get through, or
is that the key?


Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (x64) Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64;
rv:49.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.46
"Advertise Firefox compatibility" disabled

I had no problem reaching and then using
.


Yep, disabling AFC did it. Thanks.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[David E. Ross]

On 7/11/2017 8:18 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
> Hank wrote:
> 
>> I use http://speedtest.xfinity.com/ and it works. If I add www. before
>> speedtest it is blocked.
> 
> I see that your user agent does not contain a reference to SeaMonkey:
> 
> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 
> Firefox/64.0
> 
> Anyone here not using or spoofing Firefox able to get through, or is 
> that the key?
> 

Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 (x64)
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:49.0) Gecko/20100101
SeaMonkey/2.46
"Advertise Firefox compatibility" disabled

I had no problem reaching and then using .

-- 
David Ross


President Trump now denies there are any tapes that
recorded his conversations with ex-FBI Director Comey.
Between when Trump hinted there might be such tapes
and his denial, there was sufficient time to destroy
any tapes.
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Felix Miata]

Paul B. Gallagher composed on 2017-07-11 23:18 (UTC-0400):

> Hank wrote:

>> I use http://speedtest.xfinity.com/ and it works. If I add www. before
>> speedtest it is blocked.

> I see that your user agent does not contain a reference to SeaMonkey:

> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 
> Firefox/64.0

> Anyone here not using or spoofing Firefox able to get through, or is 
> that the key?

Maybe it doesn't like the 64.0 lie. Works fine with
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 SeaMonkey/2.49.1; Build
ID: 20170701204423

Speed Results
Download Speed
12.61 Mbps
Upload Speed
0.91 Mbps
Latency
29 ms
Protocol
IPv4
Host
Augusta, GA
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Hank wrote:


I use http://speedtest.xfinity.com/ and it works. If I add www. before
speedtest it is blocked.


I see that your user agent does not contain a reference to SeaMonkey:

User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/64.0


Anyone here not using or spoofing Firefox able to get through, or is 
that the key?


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Hank]

 Original Message 

On 7/11/2017 6:25 PM, Hank wrote:

I use http://speedtest.xfinity.com/ and it works. If I add www. before
speedtest it is blocked.



Trimmed

http://speedtest.xfinity.com/  Advanced Settings allows multiple Host 
locations to be selected and the Host is displayed while the test is 
running and also with the results.


Obviously, there is no such Web site as
; but there is a Web site
.

I do not like  because it does not allow
the user to select the remote (or not so remote) location against which
the test is run.  It does not even let me know where that remote site
is.  On the other hand,  allows me to choose
remote locations where Web sites that I frequently visit are hosted.



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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[David E. Ross]

On 7/11/2017 6:25 PM, Hank wrote:
> I use http://speedtest.xfinity.com/ and it works. If I add www. before 
> speedtest it is blocked.

A DNS lookup on www.speedtest.xfinity.com yields the following:
> [Start Query]
> Looking up [www.speedtest.xfinity.com]
> Error getting host address:
> No such host is known.
> 
> [End Query]

A DNS loopup on speedtest.xfinity.com yields the following:
> [Start Query]
> Looking up [speedtest.xfinity.com]
> Hostname: speedtest2.g.xfinity.com
> IPv4 Address: 69.241.22.218
> Alias: speedtest.xfinity.com
> 
> [End Query]

Obviously, there is no such Web site as
; but there is a Web site
.

I do not like  because it does not allow
the user to select the remote (or not so remote) location against which
the test is run.  It does not even let me know where that remote site
is.  On the other hand,  allows me to choose
remote locations where Web sites that I frequently visit are hosted.

-- 
David Ross


President Trump now denies there are any tapes that
recorded his conversations with ex-FBI Director Comey.
Between when Trump hinted there might be such tapes
and his denial, there was sufficient time to destroy
any tapes.
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Hank]

I use http://speedtest.xfinity.com/ and it works. If I add www. before 
speedtest it is blocked.


 Original Message 

David E. Ross wrote:


On 7/11/2017 3:49 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:


All of those links open so fast I can't count.

But, then again:




How'd you do that? Xfinity absolutely refuses to cooperate with me
-- won't show your results, won't run tests -- because I'm not
using one of their approved browsers.

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:49.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/49.0 SeaMonkey/2.46


Try .


Yes, I know about that one and it doesn't block me.

My question was how a SeaMonkey user got past Xfinity's block. The 
tactic could be useful to many of us elsewhere.




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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

David E. Ross wrote:


On 7/11/2017 3:49 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:


All of those links open so fast I can't count.

But, then again:




How'd you do that? Xfinity absolutely refuses to cooperate with me
-- won't show your results, won't run tests -- because I'm not
using one of their approved browsers.

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:49.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/49.0 SeaMonkey/2.46


Try .


Yes, I know about that one and it doesn't block me.

My question was how a SeaMonkey user got past Xfinity's block. The 
tactic could be useful to many of us elsewhere.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[David E. Ross]

On 7/11/2017 3:49 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
> Ed Mullen wrote:
> 
>> All of those links open so fast I can't count.
>>
>> But, then again:
>>
>> 
> 
> How'd you do that? Xfinity absolutely refuses to cooperate with me -- 
> won't show your results, won't run tests -- because I'm not using one of 
> their approved browsers.
> 
> User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:49.0) Gecko/20100101 
> Firefox/49.0 SeaMonkey/2.46
> 

Try .

-- 
David Ross


President Trump now denies there are any tapes that
recorded his conversations with ex-FBI Director Comey.
Between when Trump hinted there might be such tapes
and his denial, there was sufficient time to destroy
any tapes.
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Ed Mullen wrote:


All of those links open so fast I can't count.

But, then again:




How'd you do that? Xfinity absolutely refuses to cooperate with me -- 
won't show your results, won't run tests -- because I'm not using one of 
their approved browsers.


User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:49.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/49.0 SeaMonkey/2.46


--
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--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Lee wrote:


I'm advocating that people do the test on their system & pick
whichever way works best for them.


I can get on board with that. In fact, it's a pretty good summary of my 
position.


--
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--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Lee]

On 7/11/17, Ed Mullen  wrote:
> On 7/10/17 at 4:32 PM, Lee's prodigious digits fired off with great aplomb:
>> On 7/10/17, meagain wrote:
>>> On 6/21/2017 8:59 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

 If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
 browser cache.  Disable it.
>>>
>>> Interesting and clearly true, but I had never heard that recommendation
>>> previously.
>>
>> Not clearly true.
>>
>> try this:
>>
>> Open SeaMonkey & click on tools / web development / toggle tools
>> select the network tab + the All tab below that
>> visit
>> http://blog.patrickmeenan.com/2011/10/testing-for-frontend-spof.html
>> see what gets loaded & look at # requests, data xfer size & time on
>> the all/html/css/etc. tab
>>
>> visit http://fasterdata.es.net/science-dmz/DTN/tuning/
>> see what gets loaded & how long it takes
>>
>> click on the back button
>> see what gets loaded & how long it takes
>>
>> click on the forward button
>> see what gets loaded & how long it takes
>> WTF!?
>> click on the GET /science-dmz/DTN/tuning line & notice the response header
>> of
>>Cache-Control:"no-cache, no-store, max-age=0, must-revalidate,
>> no-transform"
>>
>> paste
>> "http://blog.patrickmeenan.com/2011/10/testing-for-frontend-spof.html";
>> into the URL bar
>> see what gets loaded & how long it takes
>>
>>
>>
>> I understand that "little benefit" can mean different things to
>> different people, so type "about:cache" into the url bar
>> in the disk section, click on list cache entries
>> how many entries have a fetch count > 1 ?
>> does that meet your definition of "little benefit"?
>>
>> I tried visiting reddit & opened 4 threads in new tabs, so there was
>> no forward/back button clicking & no page reloads
>> about:cache?storage=disk&context= shows
>> https://e.thumbs.redditmedia.com/pF525auqxnTG-FFj.png500977 byte s
>>  5   2017-07-10 16:11:25 2037-10-24 17:32:41
>>
>> downloading 500KB instead of 2.5MB is not my definition of "little
>> benefit"
>>
>> Lee
>>
>
> All of those links open so fast I can't count.
>
> But, then again:
>
> 

Thanks for making my point.  I do see a difference & I suspect others will too.

Lee
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Lee]

On 7/11/17, Glen via support-seamonkey
 wrote:
> Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
>> Lee wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/10/17, Paul B. Gallagher 
>>> wrote:
 Lee wrote:

> I was really hoping to skip the discussion of exactly what
> "little benefit" means & go straight to how to decide _for
> yourself_ if disabling cache is a Good Idea or no.

 Fine. Try it, and if you like it better, stick with it. If not,
 revert. That's how I'd decide.
>>>
>>> Really?!  You wouldn't even try to look at any performance data?
>>>
>>> Whatever works for you, but I've seen too many instances where
>>> people see what they want/expect to see instead of what's really
>>> there, so I like looking at the numbers instead of going by feel.
>>
>> I would happily look at performance data for comparable systems under
>> comparable conditions. Got any of that?

Where did performance data for comparable systems come from?  I was
objecting to this bit:
  >> If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
  >> browser cache.  Disable it.
  >
  > Interesting and clearly true,

"clearly true" is not at all clear me, so I gave a way to check if it
was true or not >>for you<<, that was not subjective, didn't require
any new software and was easy to do.


>> My point was that systems are so
>> varied and conditions are so varied that it's impossible to make a fair
>> comparison. All we have is empirical results for our own systems. And
>> ultimately that's the bottom line -- is this user happier or not?

have a look here
  https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/07/07/bofh_2017_episode_9/

If you've ever had to do customer support you know it's true :(
'Is the user happier or not' is influenced by a lot of factors,
including the expectation that a proposed change for the better
influences one to think the change really did make things better.

> Paul-1, Lee-0. I'll have to agree with Paul on this one.

That you don't even try to get any performance metrics before/after
making a change?

> For example,
> Lee, if you took two identically built computers (same models, specs,
> etc) - like Paul was describing - even taking it to the point where both
> systems were connected to the same router, in the same house, one could
> have loads of software on it, rarely maintained, while the other could
> have limited use and constantly maintained, and then did performance
> tests on those two computers, well, most likely, your results could vary
> so greatly that you'd start to question whether those two computers were
> identical models or not. Like Paul suggests, you truly need
> apples-to-apples type testing here, not just looking at one computer's
> performance test and then draw a conclusion by saying, 'All systems
> should make this change to it.'

I am amazed you can get that from what I wrote.  I'm advocating that
people do the test on their system & pick whichever way works best for
them.  If you go back to my first msg, I was objecting to the 'all
systems should make this change' recommendation.

I don't know how we got into apples-to-apples testing, user happiness,
extrapolating results from one machine to another or whatever.  I like
having objective measures to see if a change makes things better or
not.  If you're like me and would rather know than guess - you've got
a way to get objective performance numbers.

Regards,
Lee
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Ed Mullen]

On 7/10/17 at 4:32 PM, Lee's prodigious digits fired off with great aplomb:

On 7/10/17, meagain wrote:

On 6/21/2017 8:59 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:


If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
browser cache.  Disable it.


Interesting and clearly true, but I had never heard that recommendation
previously.


Not clearly true.

try this:

Open SeaMonkey & click on tools / web development / toggle tools
select the network tab + the All tab below that
visit http://blog.patrickmeenan.com/2011/10/testing-for-frontend-spof.html
see what gets loaded & look at # requests, data xfer size & time on
the all/html/css/etc. tab

visit http://fasterdata.es.net/science-dmz/DTN/tuning/
see what gets loaded & how long it takes

click on the back button
see what gets loaded & how long it takes

click on the forward button
see what gets loaded & how long it takes
WTF!?
click on the GET /science-dmz/DTN/tuning line & notice the response header of
   Cache-Control:"no-cache, no-store, max-age=0, must-revalidate, no-transform"

paste "http://blog.patrickmeenan.com/2011/10/testing-for-frontend-spof.html";
into the URL bar
see what gets loaded & how long it takes



I understand that "little benefit" can mean different things to
different people, so type "about:cache" into the url bar
in the disk section, click on list cache entries
how many entries have a fetch count > 1 ?
does that meet your definition of "little benefit"?

I tried visiting reddit & opened 4 threads in new tabs, so there was
no forward/back button clicking & no page reloads
about:cache?storage=disk&context= shows
https://e.thumbs.redditmedia.com/pF525auqxnTG-FFj.png   500977 byte s
5   2017-07-10 16:11:25 2037-10-24 17:32:41

downloading 500KB instead of 2.5MB is not my definition of "little benefit"

Lee



All of those links open so fast I can't count.

But, then again:




--
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When you do a good deed, get a receipt - In case heaven is like the IRS.
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Glen via support-seamonkey]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Lee wrote:


On 7/10/17, Paul B. Gallagher 
wrote:

Lee wrote:


I was really hoping to skip the discussion of exactly what
"little benefit" means & go straight to how to decide _for
yourself_ if disabling cache is a Good Idea or no.


Fine. Try it, and if you like it better, stick with it. If not,
revert. That's how I'd decide.


Really?!  You wouldn't even try to look at any performance data?

Whatever works for you, but I've seen too many instances where
people see what they want/expect to see instead of what's really
there, so I like looking at the numbers instead of going by feel.


I would happily look at performance data for comparable systems under
comparable conditions. Got any of that? My point was that systems are so
varied and conditions are so varied that it's impossible to make a fair
comparison. All we have is empirical results for our own systems. And
ultimately that's the bottom line -- is this user happier or not?

Paul-1, Lee-0. I'll have to agree with Paul on this one. For example, 
Lee, if you took two identically built computers (same models, specs, 
etc) - like Paul was describing - even taking it to the point where both 
systems were connected to the same router, in the same house, one could 
have loads of software on it, rarely maintained, while the other could 
have limited use and constantly maintained, and then did performance 
tests on those two computers, well, most likely, your results could vary 
so greatly that you'd start to question whether those two computers were 
identical models or not. Like Paul suggests, you truly need 
apples-to-apples type testing here, not just looking at one computer's 
performance test and then draw a conclusion by saying, 'All systems 
should make this change to it.' I sorta wish it was that simple. It's 
not. But, as for myself, I kinda enjoy the challenge. :)

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Lee wrote:


On 7/10/17, Paul B. Gallagher 
wrote:

Lee wrote:


I was really hoping to skip the discussion of exactly what
"little benefit" means & go straight to how to decide _for
yourself_ if disabling cache is a Good Idea or no.


Fine. Try it, and if you like it better, stick with it. If not,
revert. That's how I'd decide.


Really?!  You wouldn't even try to look at any performance data?

Whatever works for you, but I've seen too many instances where
people see what they want/expect to see instead of what's really
there, so I like looking at the numbers instead of going by feel.


I would happily look at performance data for comparable systems under 
comparable conditions. Got any of that? My point was that systems are so 
varied and conditions are so varied that it's impossible to make a fair 
comparison. All we have is empirical results for our own systems. And 
ultimately that's the bottom line -- is this user happier or not?


--
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--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Lee]

On 7/10/17, Paul B. Gallagher  wrote:
> Lee wrote:
>
>> I was really hoping to skip the discussion of exactly what "little
>> benefit" means & go straight to how to decide _for yourself_ if
>> disabling cache is a Good Idea or no.
>
> Fine. Try it, and if you like it better, stick with it. If not, revert.
> That's how I'd decide.

Really?!  You wouldn't even try to look at any performance data?

Whatever works for you, but I've seen too many instances where people
see what they want/expect to see instead of what's really there, so I
like looking at the numbers instead of going by feel.

Lee
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[David E. Ross]

On 7/10/2017 7:57 PM, Lee wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> 
> On 7/10/17, Paul B. Gallagher  wrote:
>> Lee wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> downloading 500KB instead of 2.5MB is not my definition of "little
>>> benefit"
>>
>> Depends a lot on your connection speed.
> 
> I was really hoping to skip the discussion of exactly what "little
> benefit" means & go straight to how to decide _for yourself_ if
> disabling cache is a Good Idea or no.
> 
> Lee
> 

You might be interestend in my comments about "Internet speed" at
.

-- 
David Ross


President Trump now denies there are any tapes that
recorded his conversations with ex-FBI Director Comey.
Between when Trump hinted there might be such tapes
and his denial, there was sufficient time to destroy
any tapes.
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Lee wrote:


I was really hoping to skip the discussion of exactly what "little
benefit" means & go straight to how to decide _for yourself_ if
disabling cache is a Good Idea or no.


Fine. Try it, and if you like it better, stick with it. If not, revert. 
That's how I'd decide.


With all the variables, speculation from here is just guesswork.

--
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--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Lee]

Hi Paul,

On 7/10/17, Paul B. Gallagher  wrote:
> Lee wrote:
>
>> ...
>>
>> downloading 500KB instead of 2.5MB is not my definition of "little
>> benefit"
>
> Depends a lot on your connection speed.

I was really hoping to skip the discussion of exactly what "little
benefit" means & go straight to how to decide _for yourself_ if
disabling cache is a Good Idea or no.

Lee
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Lee wrote:


...

downloading 500KB instead of 2.5MB is not my definition of "little
benefit"


Depends a lot on your connection speed.

If you have a 300 baud modem, the difference is excruciating (2.5 MB = 
18.52 hours). If you have a gigabit connection, you won't notice it (2.5 
MB = 0.02 second, about the length of the tongue contact in the "d" of 
American English "pedal" or the "r" of Spanish "pero").


Most users are somewhere in between. On my 50 Mbps connection, it takes 
two or three seconds to download 2 MB (the difference between your two 
cases). If I pay attention, I can tell the difference between 500 KB and 
2.5 MB, but I would definitely call it "little benefit." If I had a 1 
Mbps connection and had to wait two minutes, it would be a BFD.


--
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--
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Lee]

On 7/10/17, meagain wrote:
> On 6/21/2017 8:59 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:
>>
>> If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
>> browser cache.  Disable it.
>
> Interesting and clearly true, but I had never heard that recommendation
> previously.

Not clearly true.

try this:

Open SeaMonkey & click on tools / web development / toggle tools
select the network tab + the All tab below that
visit http://blog.patrickmeenan.com/2011/10/testing-for-frontend-spof.html
see what gets loaded & look at # requests, data xfer size & time on
the all/html/css/etc. tab

visit http://fasterdata.es.net/science-dmz/DTN/tuning/
see what gets loaded & how long it takes

click on the back button
see what gets loaded & how long it takes

click on the forward button
see what gets loaded & how long it takes
WTF!?
click on the GET /science-dmz/DTN/tuning line & notice the response header of
  Cache-Control:"no-cache, no-store, max-age=0, must-revalidate, no-transform"

paste "http://blog.patrickmeenan.com/2011/10/testing-for-frontend-spof.html";
into the URL bar
see what gets loaded & how long it takes



I understand that "little benefit" can mean different things to
different people, so type "about:cache" into the url bar
in the disk section, click on list cache entries
how many entries have a fetch count > 1 ?
does that meet your definition of "little benefit"?

I tried visiting reddit & opened 4 threads in new tabs, so there was
no forward/back button clicking & no page reloads
about:cache?storage=disk&context= shows
https://e.thumbs.redditmedia.com/pF525auqxnTG-FFj.png   500977 byte s
5   2017-07-10 16:11:25 2037-10-24 17:32:41

downloading 500KB instead of 2.5MB is not my definition of "little benefit"

Lee
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Felix Miata]

meagain composed on 2017-07-10 11:28 (UTC-0400):

> Ed Mullen wrote:

>> If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
>> browser cache.  Disable it.

> Interesting and clearly true, but I had never heard that recommendation 
> previously.

Not clear to me. Where's the proof? Surely this must depend on:

1-broadband speed (some are many times faster than others)

2-whether one habitually restores previous session at startup

3-if restoring, number of tabs open, and depth of each

4-if restoring, number of tabs in which JS is enabled

5-if restoring, number of tabs in which content is no-cache

6-local storage speed (some is magnitudes faster than the fastest broadband)
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[meagain]

On 6/21/2017 8:59 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
browser cache.  Disable it.


Interesting and clearly true, but I had never heard that recommendation 
previously.

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

rickman wrote:


I've disabled the cache and we'll see if things work better.  At the
moment I am able to type without all the delays.  Wow!  I opened the
browser and even *it* snappy again.  WTF!

We'll see if this persists.  Why would they have a cache if it goofs
up things so much?  Is there something different about my system?
Most users don't seem to have this problem do they?


I don't have that problem, but I have SM set to clear cache on shutdown, 
and I frequently clear private data (including cache) during a session 
for other reasons.


Perhaps something in your aging cache got corrupted, and is gone now 
that you've wiped it.


--
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--
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Dirk Munk wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote:


I have quite a strict view on caches, page files etc. When you
*start* an application that uses a cache, that cache should be
initialized. Data in a cache belongs to a running session, there
shouldn't be old junk from previous sessions in the cache.


Better would be to clear any caches on shutdown, so they don't
survive on disk until the next program launch. All well and good to
initialize on startup, but not as good.


An application may crash, and in that case the caches still contain
data, maybe even data that caused the crash. In your proposal you
rely on the assumption that caches are clear at start up. When I was
still a programmer, I learned never to assume anything. Check and
double check, or to make sure no junk is left in caches, records,
fields and so on, always initialize.


Agreed. I didn't mean to suggest clearing only on shutdown, but rather 
to reject the approach of clearing only on startup. Belt and suspenders 
are best.


--
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--
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[rickman]

David E. Ross wrote on 6/24/2017 9:56 AM:

On 6/24/2017 3:11 AM, Dirk Munk wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

rickman wrote:


Ed Mullen wrote on 6/21/2017 8:59 PM:


If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
browser cache.  Disable it.


First question, how?   Second question, does the browser impact the
other components in SeaMonkey when the browser isn't running?


Edit | Preferences | Advanced | Cache

Uncheck "Let SeaMonkey manage..." and set the value to zero.

Logically, I can't imagine how something that isn't running could
affect anything else, but I'll leave that one to the experts.


I don't know which cache is disabled by this setting. When you delete
the local profiles directory, more then one cache is deleted!



You are quite correct.  See bug #864047 at
.


I've disabled the cache and we'll see if things work better.  At the moment 
I am able to type without all the delays.  Wow!  I opened the browser and 
even *it* snappy again.  WTF!


We'll see if this persists.  Why would they have a cache if it goofs up 
things so much?  Is there something different about my system?  Most users 
don't seem to have this problem do they?


--

Rick C
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Dirk Munk]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote:


David E. Ross wrote:


You are quite correct.  See bug #864047 at
.


At the cited URL, David E. Ross writes:


While SeaMonkey deletes the general cache on termination (per my
Private Data preference), the special caches are not deleted. Thus, I
manually delete the special caches before doing a backup.


Care to explain how you do that?


And since we don't know which cache is causing the speed problems,
disabling the cache as described may not fix the problem.

I have quite a strict view on caches, page files etc. When you
*start* an application that uses a cache, that cache should be
initialized. Data in a cache belongs to a running session, there
shouldn't be old junk from previous sessions in the cache.


Better would be to clear any caches on shutdown, so they don't survive 
on disk until the next program launch. All well and good to initialize 
on startup, but not as good.


An application may crash, and in that case the caches still contain 
data, maybe even data that caused the crash. In your proposal you rely 
on the assumption that caches are clear at start up. When I was still a 
programmer, I learned never to assume anything. Check and double check, 
or to make sure no junk is left in caches, records, fields and so on, 
always initialize.



When I was still using the glorious Windows 98, I used a setting
that would clear the page file when I closed down Windows. It made
Windows 98 quite a lot more stable!

So I would suggest that SM also initializes the local caches at
startup!


I suppose you intend the subjunctive sense here ("I propose that SM 
should be made to initialize") and not the indicative sense as written 
("I hypothesize that SM actually does now initialize"). If so, I agree.



That is what I mean.
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Dirk Munk wrote:


David E. Ross wrote:


You are quite correct.  See bug #864047 at
.


At the cited URL, David E. Ross writes:


While SeaMonkey deletes the general cache on termination (per my
Private Data preference), the special caches are not deleted. Thus, I
manually delete the special caches before doing a backup.


Care to explain how you do that?


And since we don't know which cache is causing the speed problems,
disabling the cache as described may not fix the problem.

I have quite a strict view on caches, page files etc. When you
*start* an application that uses a cache, that cache should be
initialized. Data in a cache belongs to a running session, there
shouldn't be old junk from previous sessions in the cache.


Better would be to clear any caches on shutdown, so they don't survive 
on disk until the next program launch. All well and good to initialize 
on startup, but not as good.



When I was still using the glorious Windows 98, I used a setting
that would clear the page file when I closed down Windows. It made
Windows 98 quite a lot more stable!

So I would suggest that SM also initializes the local caches at
startup!


I suppose you intend the subjunctive sense here ("I propose that SM 
should be made to initialize") and not the indicative sense as written 
("I hypothesize that SM actually does now initialize"). If so, I agree.


--
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--
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Dirk Munk]

David E. Ross wrote:

On 6/24/2017 3:11 AM, Dirk Munk wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

rickman wrote:


Ed Mullen wrote on 6/21/2017 8:59 PM:

If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
browser cache.  Disable it.

First question, how?   Second question, does the browser impact the
other components in SeaMonkey when the browser isn't running?

Edit | Preferences | Advanced | Cache

Uncheck "Let SeaMonkey manage..." and set the value to zero.

Logically, I can't imagine how something that isn't running could
affect anything else, but I'll leave that one to the experts.


I don't know which cache is disabled by this setting. When you delete
the local profiles directory, more then one cache is deleted!


You are quite correct.  See bug #864047 at
.

And since we don't know which cache is causing the speed problems, 
disabling the cache as described may not fix the problem.


I have quite a strict view on caches, page files etc. When you *start* 
an application that uses a cache, that cache should be initialized. Data 
in a cache belongs to a running session, there shouldn't be old junk 
from previous sessions in the cache.


When I was still using the glorious Windows 98, I used a setting that 
would clear the page file when I closed down Windows. It made Windows 98 
quite a lot more stable!


So I would suggest that SM also initializes the local caches at startup!


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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[David E. Ross]

On 6/24/2017 3:11 AM, Dirk Munk wrote:
> Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
>> rickman wrote:
>>
>>> Ed Mullen wrote on 6/21/2017 8:59 PM:

 If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
 browser cache.  Disable it.
>>>
>>> First question, how?   Second question, does the browser impact the
>>> other components in SeaMonkey when the browser isn't running?
>>
>> Edit | Preferences | Advanced | Cache
>>
>> Uncheck "Let SeaMonkey manage..." and set the value to zero.
>>
>> Logically, I can't imagine how something that isn't running could 
>> affect anything else, but I'll leave that one to the experts.
>>
> I don't know which cache is disabled by this setting. When you delete 
> the local profiles directory, more then one cache is deleted!
> 

You are quite correct.  See bug #864047 at
.

-- 
David Ross


President Trump now denies there are any tapes that
recorded his conversations with ex-FBI Director Comey.
Between when Trump hinted there might be such tapes
and his denial, there was sufficient time to destroy
any tapes.
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Dirk Munk]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

rickman wrote:


Ed Mullen wrote on 6/21/2017 8:59 PM:


If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
browser cache.  Disable it.


First question, how?   Second question, does the browser impact the
other components in SeaMonkey when the browser isn't running?


Edit | Preferences | Advanced | Cache

Uncheck "Let SeaMonkey manage..." and set the value to zero.

Logically, I can't imagine how something that isn't running could 
affect anything else, but I'll leave that one to the experts.


I don't know which cache is disabled by this setting. When you delete 
the local profiles directory, more then one cache is deleted!

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

rickman wrote:


Ed Mullen wrote on 6/21/2017 8:59 PM:


If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
browser cache.  Disable it.


First question, how?   Second question, does the browser impact the
other components in SeaMonkey when the browser isn't running?


Edit | Preferences | Advanced | Cache

Uncheck "Let SeaMonkey manage..." and set the value to zero.

Logically, I can't imagine how something that isn't running could affect 
anything else, but I'll leave that one to the experts.


--
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--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[rickman]

Ed Mullen wrote on 6/21/2017 8:59 PM:

On 6/21/17 at 4:43 PM, rickman's prodigious digits fired off with great aplomb:

rickman wrote on 6/1/2017 8:59 PM:

Dirk Munk wrote on 6/1/2017 6:43 PM:

rickman wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote on 6/1/2017 2:08 PM:

rickman wrote:

I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been
responding to
posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able to
type
for half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it still has
these long delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going on in the
system. None of the other apps are affected.  When I am waiting for the
hourglass I can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.

I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.


Try to clean the cache files as described by Frank-Rainer in "Clearing
Seamonkey Cache Files", worked for me.


I see his post, but not anything about clearing cache files.


That is the title of  a separate thread !!


Yes, I found that and cleared the cache.  It is not as bad now, but
SeaMonkey still has small delays that freeze your text cursor when typing or
the mouse cursor when using the rest of the GUI.

I can live with it as it is.  We'll see if it gets worse again.  Thanks


The speed issue has been bad again, so I've cleared the cache again.  This
is a reminder to myself to report if SeaMonkey is still working ok after a
day or so.



If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a
browser cache.  Disable it.


First question, how?   Second question, does the browser impact the other 
components in SeaMonkey when the browser isn't running?


--

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Ed Mullen]

On 6/21/17 at 4:43 PM, rickman's prodigious digits fired off with great 
aplomb:

rickman wrote on 6/1/2017 8:59 PM:

Dirk Munk wrote on 6/1/2017 6:43 PM:

rickman wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote on 6/1/2017 2:08 PM:

rickman wrote:
I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been 
responding to
posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able 
to type

for half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it still has
these long delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going on in 
the
system. None of the other apps are affected.  When I am waiting 
for the

hourglass I can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.

I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.


Try to clean the cache files as described by Frank-Rainer in "Clearing
Seamonkey Cache Files", worked for me.


I see his post, but not anything about clearing cache files.


That is the title of  a separate thread !!


Yes, I found that and cleared the cache.  It is not as bad now, but
SeaMonkey still has small delays that freeze your text cursor when 
typing or

the mouse cursor when using the rest of the GUI.

I can live with it as it is.  We'll see if it gets worse again.  Thanks


The speed issue has been bad again, so I've cleared the cache again.  
This is a reminder to myself to report if SeaMonkey is still working ok 
after a day or so.




If you have a broadband connection there is little benefit to using a 
browser cache.  Disable it.



--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Everybody repeat after me ...We are all individuals.
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[rickman]

rickman wrote on 6/1/2017 8:59 PM:

Dirk Munk wrote on 6/1/2017 6:43 PM:

rickman wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote on 6/1/2017 2:08 PM:

rickman wrote:

I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been responding to
posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able to type
for half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it still has
these long delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going on in the
system. None of the other apps are affected.  When I am waiting for the
hourglass I can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.

I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.


Try to clean the cache files as described by Frank-Rainer in "Clearing
Seamonkey Cache Files", worked for me.


I see his post, but not anything about clearing cache files.


That is the title of  a separate thread !!


Yes, I found that and cleared the cache.  It is not as bad now, but
SeaMonkey still has small delays that freeze your text cursor when typing or
the mouse cursor when using the rest of the GUI.

I can live with it as it is.  We'll see if it gets worse again.  Thanks


The speed issue has been bad again, so I've cleared the cache again.  This 
is a reminder to myself to report if SeaMonkey is still working ok after a 
day or so.


--

Rick C
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[rickman]

Dirk Munk wrote on 6/1/2017 6:43 PM:

rickman wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote on 6/1/2017 2:08 PM:

rickman wrote:

I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been responding to
posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able to type
for half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it still has
these long delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going on in the
system. None of the other apps are affected.  When I am waiting for the
hourglass I can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.

I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.


Try to clean the cache files as described by Frank-Rainer in "Clearing
Seamonkey Cache Files", worked for me.


I see his post, but not anything about clearing cache files.


That is the title of  a separate thread !!


Yes, I found that and cleared the cache.  It is not as bad now, but 
SeaMonkey still has small delays that freeze your text cursor when typing or 
the mouse cursor when using the rest of the GUI.


I can live with it as it is.  We'll see if it gets worse again.  Thanks

--

Rick C
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Dirk Munk]

rickman wrote:

Dirk Munk wrote on 6/1/2017 2:08 PM:

rickman wrote:
I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been 
responding to
posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able 
to type

for half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it still has
these long delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going on in the
system. None of the other apps are affected.  When I am waiting for the
hourglass I can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.

I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.


Try to clean the cache files as described by Frank-Rainer in "Clearing
Seamonkey Cache Files", worked for me.


I see his post, but not anything about clearing cache files.


That is the title of  a separate thread !!
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

rickman wrote:


Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 5/29/2017 3:39 AM:

rickman wrote:


I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been
responding to posts in various groups for an hour or two and
I've only been able to type for half that time.  I've tried
restarting SeaMonkey but it still has these long delays.  Task
manager says there is nothing going on in the system. None of the
other apps are affected.  When I am waiting for the hourglass I
can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.

I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source
stuff.


The usual troubleshooting procedure is to launch SM in Safe Mode,
disabling all add-ons and extensions. If the problem goes away,
repeat the procedure, enabling one extension. If the problem is
still gone, repeat, adding one more extension at a time until the
problem recurs. When it does, you have the guilty party (the most
recently added extension). At that point, post back and someone
here may well have a fix or workaround for that particular
extension.


Starting SeaMonkey in safe mode I still find delays and the other
things that make SeaMonkey hard to use.  Just now as I type this post
it both would freeze for some seconds as I type, but since it stops
processing input as I am typing it sometimes will switch back to the
main window where the typing is interpreted as commands.


OK, next thing to look at is Windows Task Manager.

Do CTRL-SHIFT-ESC and look at the "Performance" tab. Is your CPU or your 
RAM maxed out or nearly so? In that case, look at the "Processes" tab 
and see if anything's sucking up all your processor time or memory. If 
not, click "Show processes from all users" and sort by CPU or Memory by 
clicking the column heading.


Any news, report back.

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[rickman]

David E. Ross wrote on 6/1/2017 4:06 PM:

On 6/1/2017 10:11 AM, rickman wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 5/29/2017 3:39 AM:

rickman wrote:


I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been
responding to posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've
only been able to type for half that time.  I've tried restarting
SeaMonkey but it still has these long delays.  Task manager says
there is nothing going on in the system. None of the other apps are
affected.  When I am waiting for the hourglass I can switch to Chrome
and play Sudoku with no problems.

I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.


The usual troubleshooting procedure is to launch SM in Safe Mode, disabling
all add-ons and extensions. If the problem goes away, repeat the procedure,
enabling one extension. If the problem is still gone, repeat, adding one
more extension at a time until the problem recurs. When it does, you have
the guilty party (the most recently added extension). At that point, post
back and someone here may well have a fix or workaround for that particular
extension.


Starting SeaMonkey in safe mode I still find delays and the other things
that make SeaMonkey hard to use.  Just now as I type this post it both would
freeze for some seconds as I type, but since it stops processing input as I
am typing it sometimes will switch back to the main window where the typing
is interpreted as commands.



This might be a Windows problem instead of a SeaMonkey problem.


Fine, but how does it change anything.  Windows is the environment in which 
the program must run.  Other programs run under Windows without a problem. 
Windows is not going to be "fixed".  Ergo, if a fix is desired, it needs to 
be in SeaMonkey.


I am running back in normal mode and the delays seem to be worse.  But I 
still had significant delays in safe mode.


--

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[David E. Ross]

On 6/1/2017 10:11 AM, rickman wrote:
> Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 5/29/2017 3:39 AM:
>> rickman wrote:
>>
>>> I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been
>>> responding to posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've
>>> only been able to type for half that time.  I've tried restarting
>>> SeaMonkey but it still has these long delays.  Task manager says
>>> there is nothing going on in the system. None of the other apps are
>>> affected.  When I am waiting for the hourglass I can switch to Chrome
>>> and play Sudoku with no problems.
>>>
>>> I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.
>>
>> The usual troubleshooting procedure is to launch SM in Safe Mode, disabling
>> all add-ons and extensions. If the problem goes away, repeat the procedure,
>> enabling one extension. If the problem is still gone, repeat, adding one
>> more extension at a time until the problem recurs. When it does, you have
>> the guilty party (the most recently added extension). At that point, post
>> back and someone here may well have a fix or workaround for that particular
>> extension.
> 
> Starting SeaMonkey in safe mode I still find delays and the other things 
> that make SeaMonkey hard to use.  Just now as I type this post it both would 
> freeze for some seconds as I type, but since it stops processing input as I 
> am typing it sometimes will switch back to the main window where the typing 
> is interpreted as commands.
> 

This might be a Windows problem instead of a SeaMonkey problem.

-- 
David E. Ross


Consider:
*  Most state mandate that drivers have liability insurance.
*  Employers are mandated to have worker's compensation insurance.
*  If you live in a flood zone, flood insurance is mandatory.
*  If your home has a mortgage, fire insurance is mandatory.

Why then is mandatory health insurance so bad??
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[rickman]

Dirk Munk wrote on 6/1/2017 2:08 PM:

rickman wrote:

I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been responding to
posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able to type
for half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it still has
these long delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going on in the
system. None of the other apps are affected.  When I am waiting for the
hourglass I can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.

I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.


Try to clean the cache files as described by Frank-Rainer in "Clearing
Seamonkey Cache Files", worked for me.


I see his post, but not anything about clearing cache files.

--

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Dirk Munk]

rickman wrote:
I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been responding 
to posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able 
to type for half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it 
still has these long delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going 
on in the system. None of the other apps are affected.  When I am 
waiting for the hourglass I can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with 
no problems.


I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.

Try to clean the cache files as described by Frank-Rainer in "Clearing 
Seamonkey Cache Files", worked for me.

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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[rickman]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote on 5/29/2017 3:39 AM:

rickman wrote:


I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been
responding to posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've
only been able to type for half that time.  I've tried restarting
SeaMonkey but it still has these long delays.  Task manager says
there is nothing going on in the system. None of the other apps are
affected.  When I am waiting for the hourglass I can switch to Chrome
and play Sudoku with no problems.

I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.


The usual troubleshooting procedure is to launch SM in Safe Mode, disabling
all add-ons and extensions. If the problem goes away, repeat the procedure,
enabling one extension. If the problem is still gone, repeat, adding one
more extension at a time until the problem recurs. When it does, you have
the guilty party (the most recently added extension). At that point, post
back and someone here may well have a fix or workaround for that particular
extension.


Starting SeaMonkey in safe mode I still find delays and the other things 
that make SeaMonkey hard to use.  Just now as I type this post it both would 
freeze for some seconds as I type, but since it stops processing input as I 
am typing it sometimes will switch back to the main window where the typing 
is interpreted as commands.


--

Rick C
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[rickman]

David E. Ross wrote on 5/29/2017 11:00 AM:

On 5/29/2017 12:29 AM, rickman wrote:

I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been responding to
posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able to type
for half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it still has these
long delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going on in the system.
None of the other apps are affected.  When I am waiting for the hourglass I
can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.

I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.



I use Thunderbird, which is open source, for E-mail and newsgroups.
That way, I do not lose my current E-mail or newsgroup session when I
change my browsing profile.


I switched from T-bird to SeaMonkey because T-bird was even worse.  There 
were times T-bird was almost impossible to use and when I loaded the last 
upgrade it quit working.  When I start it there is no calendar and no 
newsgroups.  Once they all showed up and I was able to export the calendars. 
 But restarting the program now, it is back to being broken.


--

Rick C
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[David E. Ross]

On 5/29/2017 12:29 AM, rickman wrote:
> I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been responding to 
> posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able to type 
> for half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it still has these 
> long delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going on in the system. 
> None of the other apps are affected.  When I am waiting for the hourglass I 
> can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.
> 
> I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.
> 

I use Thunderbird, which is open source, for E-mail and newsgroups.
That way, I do not lose my current E-mail or newsgroup session when I
change my browsing profile.

-- 
David E. Ross


Consider:
*  Most state mandate that drivers have liability insurance.
*  Employers are mandated to have worker's compensation insurance.
*  If you live in a flood zone, flood insurance is mandatory.
*  If your home has a mortgage, fire insurance is mandatory.

Why then is mandatory health insurance so bad??
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Ed Mullen]

On 5/29/17 at 3:29 AM, rickman's prodigious digits fired off with great 
aplomb:
I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been responding 
to posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able to 
type for half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it still 
has these long delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going on in 
the system. None of the other apps are affected.  When I am waiting for 
the hourglass I can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.


I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.



In addition to the other suggestions you might try creating a new profile.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

You can try Adrians latest 2.49.1 version:

https://l10n.mozilla-community.org/~akalla/unofficial/seamonkey/nightly/latest-comm-esr-windows32/

Did you temporarily disable your virus scanner? They can do nasty things with 
network access. Some inject certificates and further slow down or interfere.



FRG

rickman wrote:
I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been responding to 
posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able to type for 
half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it still has these long 
delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going on in the system. None of 
the other apps are affected.  When I am waiting for the hourglass I can switch 
to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.


I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.



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Re: SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[Paul B. Gallagher]

rickman wrote:


I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been
responding to posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've
only been able to type for half that time.  I've tried restarting
SeaMonkey but it still has these long delays.  Task manager says
there is nothing going on in the system. None of the other apps are
affected.  When I am waiting for the hourglass I can switch to Chrome
and play Sudoku with no problems.

I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.


The usual troubleshooting procedure is to launch SM in Safe Mode, 
disabling all add-ons and extensions. If the problem goes away, repeat 
the procedure, enabling one extension. If the problem is still gone, 
repeat, adding one more extension at a time until the problem recurs. 
When it does, you have the guilty party (the most recently added 
extension). At that point, post back and someone here may well have a 
fix or workaround for that particular extension.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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SeaMonkey Speed Problems

[rickman]

I don't know if I can continue to use SeaMonkey.  I've been responding to 
posts in various groups for an hour or two and I've only been able to type 
for half that time.  I've tried restarting SeaMonkey but it still has these 
long delays.  Task manager says there is nothing going on in the system. 
None of the other apps are affected.  When I am waiting for the hourglass I 
can switch to Chrome and play Sudoku with no problems.


I may have to buy a newsreader and give up on the open source stuff.

--

Rick C
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