Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[mozilla-lists . mbourne]

Alexander Yudenitsch wrote:

J. Weaver Jr. wrote, on 15 nov 16 03:22:


Ed Mullen wrote:

Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and
slim down SeaMonkey.


Hear hear! It's a large bundle of code with no modern purpose.  -JW


I don't much care whether a 'purpose' is "modern" or not, but I do
occasionally use Composer to edit web pages for printing optimization:
Taking out not-wanted items, doing a little rearrangement and editing,
so a printout will be optimized for the person/purpose it's meant for.

Even the 'print' function isn't working, but 'print preview' is, and it
does allow printing after that.

Of course, I never 'save' the edited pages, because after the printout
my 'purpose' is accomplished...  and I don't know any other way to
achieve it without Composer!  So, I hope it remains as a part of SM for
a long time.


For what it's worth, I quite often use the DOM Inspector (Tools > Web 
Development > DOM Inspector) for similar purposes - removing unnecessary 
menus so the useful content fits on a single page, fixing up CSS imports 
for printing, etc.


--
Mark.

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Alexander Yudenitsch]

J. Weaver Jr. wrote, on 15 nov 16 03:22:


Ed Mullen wrote:

Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and
slim down SeaMonkey.


Hear hear! It's a large bundle of code with no modern purpose.  -JW


I don't much care whether a 'purpose' is "modern" or not, but I do 
occasionally use Composer to edit web pages for printing optimization: 
Taking out not-wanted items, doing a little rearrangement and editing, 
so a printout will be optimized for the person/purpose it's meant for.


Even the 'print' function isn't working, but 'print preview' is, and it 
does allow printing after that.


Of course, I never 'save' the edited pages, because after the printout 
my 'purpose' is accomplished...  and I don't know any other way to 
achieve it without Composer!  So, I hope it remains as a part of SM for 
a long time.


--
Thanks beforehand for your attention, and I hope to hear from you soon.

s) Alexander Yudenitsch   



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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

2.49a2 crashes when opening certain links and the autocomplete feature 
is broken. Sessionrestore also has a problem with session storage, There 
may be other errors too so please do not install it one someones PC who 
is not accustomed to be a beta tester. Should be fixed when it hits Beta 
but currently stick with 2.47 or 2.48. I am sure Adrian will update the 
release 2.47 builds too soon.


FRG

sean wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:


On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired
off:


I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They
probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


Umm, how could your experience improve if you don't notice it?


There are lots of situations where people don't consciously notice 
improved experiences, but you can detect and measure it if you poll 
them before and after. There's a big gray area between the kind of 
dramatic improvement that gets your attention on the one hand and no 
change on the other hand.




2.49a1 is dramatically faster than cludgey old 2.40... vastly so...

I really wanted to install it or at least 2.48 on the laptop i'm 
repairing for my mother, but i couldn't figure out how to get an icon to 
appear in menus in a 32 bit linux environment...


sean


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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[sean]

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:


On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired
off:


I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They
probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


Umm, how could your experience improve if you don't notice it?


There are lots of situations where people don't consciously notice 
improved experiences, but you can detect and measure it if you poll them 
before and after. There's a big gray area between the kind of dramatic 
improvement that gets your attention on the one hand and no change on 
the other hand.




2.49a1 is dramatically faster than cludgey old 2.40... vastly so...

I really wanted to install it or at least 2.48 on the laptop i'm 
repairing for my mother, but i couldn't figure out how to get an icon to 
appear in menus in a 32 bit linux environment...


sean
--
The Purpose of life is to be happy.
   ~ Dalai Lama
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[NoOp]

On 11/15/2016 01:06 PM, sean wrote:
> Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
>> Ed Mullen wrote:
>> 
>>> On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired
>>> off:
>>>
 I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They
 probably improve my experience without me noticing it.
>>>
>>> Umm, how could your experience improve if you don't notice it?
>> 
>> There are lots of situations where people don't consciously notice 
>> improved experiences, but you can detect and measure it if you poll them 
>> before and after. There's a big gray area between the kind of dramatic 
>> improvement that gets your attention on the one hand and no change on 
>> the other hand.
>> 
> 
> 2.49a1 is dramatically faster than cludgey old 2.40... vastly so...
> 
> I really wanted to install it or at least 2.48 on the laptop i'm 
> repairing for my mother, but i couldn't figure out how to get an icon to 
> appear in menus in a 32 bit linux environment...
> 
> sean
> 

Icons are always in /seamonkey/chrome/icons/default
What flavour of linx & desktop?

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Ed Mullen]

On 11/15/2016 at 8:15 AM, David H. Durgee's prodigious digits fired off:

Ed Mullen wrote:

On 11/15/2016 at 12:22 AM, J. Weaver Jr.'s prodigious digits fired off:

Ed Mullen wrote:

Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web site.
I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out
and
slim down SeaMonkey.


Hear hear! It's a large bundle of code with no modern purpose.  -JW



Yeah, geez, I just realized it's 2016!  Fer crying out loud!  Get rid of
this terminally flawed useless piece of crap code.

Lemme see?  I want to create a Web page?  Options?  Does anyone
immediately think:  "Oh, yeah!  Lemme get SeaMonkey and use Composer!

Not!

Get rid of it.  Obsolete.  Wrong.  Ancient.

Okay, going to bed now.



Err... How do you think you are going to create HTML email in SeaMonkey
without an HTML editor?


We're talking about creating Web pages, not email. Removing access to 
the Composer component need not remove HTML email composition.


Out of date and buggy as it is, it is needed

for this at a minimum.

Dave


WYSIWYG HTML editors have been problematical forever.  Even expensive 
ones can't  be relied upon to generate compliant code.


--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Better living through denial.
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Ed Mullen]

On 11/15/2016 at 4:41 AM, Alex Beauroy's prodigious digits fired off:

On 15/11/2016 06:01, Ed Mullen wrote:

On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired off:

On 11/14/2016 1:28 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Stay with 2.48a2 or 2.48 for the time being. 2.49a2 and the soon the
be 2.50a1
will be very very unstable right now. There were several Mozilla last
minute
changes which need to be taken care of first. Worst is bug 1316104.


Just for the record.
I like stable releases!
I don't think there are any visible functional difference between the
features I actually used since the days of Netscape 4.x and my current
SeaMonkey 2.40 [Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/43.0 SeaMonkey/2.40]

I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They
probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


Umm, how could your experience improve if you don't notice it?



NEW is not, a priori, better.
E.G. More than a year ago there was talk of removing Composer due to it
not handling all of the "latest/greatest" {sic} features of HTML. That
would be a mistake. I does what it claims. I regularly need what it
offers.

THANK YOU developers!



Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web site.
I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and
slim down SeaMonkey.


Hi Ed!!! I trust very much your opinions and I consider you to be a
trustful elder here...
But shall I still be able to "insert" a "link" or a "picture" while
composing an e-mail using the
" Insert menu" if I get rid of "Composer"
Thanks in advance!!
Best Regards
@lex


Getting rid of the Composer component GUI need not affect composing HTML 
emails.



--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
A husband is someone who takes out the trash and gives the impression he 
just cleaned the whole house.

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[WaltS48]

On 11/15/2016 08:15 AM, David H. Durgee wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:

On 11/15/2016 at 12:22 AM, J. Weaver Jr.'s prodigious digits fired off:

Ed Mullen wrote:

Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web 
site.

I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code 
out and

slim down SeaMonkey.


Hear hear! It's a large bundle of code with no modern purpose.  -JW



Yeah, geez, I just realized it's 2016!  Fer crying out loud! Get rid of
this terminally flawed useless piece of crap code.

Lemme see?  I want to create a Web page?  Options?  Does anyone
immediately think:  "Oh, yeah!  Lemme get SeaMonkey and use Composer!

Not!

Get rid of it.  Obsolete.  Wrong.  Ancient.

Okay, going to bed now.



Err... How do you think you are going to create HTML email in 
SeaMonkey without an HTML editor?  Out of date and buggy as it is, it 
is needed for this at a minimum.


Dave



The same way you create HTML email in Thunderbird without Composer's GUI.


--
Visit Pittsburgh 
Coexist 
National Popular Vote 
Ubuntu 16.04LTS

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[David H. Durgee]

Ed Mullen wrote:

On 11/15/2016 at 12:22 AM, J. Weaver Jr.'s prodigious digits fired off:

Ed Mullen wrote:

Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web site.
I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and
slim down SeaMonkey.


Hear hear! It's a large bundle of code with no modern purpose.  -JW



Yeah, geez, I just realized it's 2016!  Fer crying out loud!  Get rid of
this terminally flawed useless piece of crap code.

Lemme see?  I want to create a Web page?  Options?  Does anyone
immediately think:  "Oh, yeah!  Lemme get SeaMonkey and use Composer!

Not!

Get rid of it.  Obsolete.  Wrong.  Ancient.

Okay, going to bed now.



Err... How do you think you are going to create HTML email in SeaMonkey 
without an HTML editor?  Out of date and buggy as it is, it is needed 
for this at a minimum.


Dave
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[WaltS48]

On 11/15/2016 04:41 AM, Alex Beauroy wrote:

On 15/11/2016 06:01, Ed Mullen wrote:

On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired off:

On 11/14/2016 1:28 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Stay with 2.48a2 or 2.48 for the time being. 2.49a2 and the soon the
be 2.50a1
will be very very unstable right now. There were several Mozilla last
minute
changes which need to be taken care of first. Worst is bug 1316104.


Just for the record.
I like stable releases!
I don't think there are any visible functional difference between the
features I actually used since the days of Netscape 4.x and my current
SeaMonkey 2.40 [Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/43.0 SeaMonkey/2.40]

I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They
probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


Umm, how could your experience improve if you don't notice it?



NEW is not, a priori, better.
E.G. More than a year ago there was talk of removing Composer due to it
not handling all of the "latest/greatest" {sic} features of HTML. That
would be a mistake. I does what it claims. I regularly need what it
offers.

THANK YOU developers!



Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web site.
I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and
slim down SeaMonkey.

Hi Ed!!! I trust very much your opinions and I consider you to be a 
trustful elder here...
But shall I still be able to "insert" a "link" or a "picture" while 
composing an e-mail using the

" Insert menu" if I get rid of "Composer"
Thanks in advance!!
Best Regards
@lex



Probably. Thunderbird doesn't have it and I think all you need is the 
editor.


Then again maybe Thunderbird does have it, but doesn't have the GUI with 
the Normal, HTML Tags,  Source and Preview tabs and all the 
Composition Toolbar items.


--
Visit Pittsburgh 
Coexist 
National Popular Vote 
Ubuntu 16.04LTS

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Gérard]

On 11/15/2016 10:41 AM, Alex Beauroy wrote:

On 15/11/2016 06:01, Ed Mullen wrote:

On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired off:

On 11/14/2016 1:28 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Stay with 2.48a2 or 2.48 for the time being. 2.49a2 and the soon the
be 2.50a1
will be very very unstable right now. There were several Mozilla last
minute
changes which need to be taken care of first. Worst is bug 1316104.


Just for the record.
I like stable releases!
I don't think there are any visible functional difference between the
features I actually used since the days of Netscape 4.x and my current
SeaMonkey 2.40 [Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/43.0 SeaMonkey/2.40]

I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They
probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


Umm, how could your experience improve if you don't notice it?



NEW is not, a priori, better.
E.G. More than a year ago there was talk of removing Composer due to it
not handling all of the "latest/greatest" {sic} features of HTML. That
would be a mistake. I does what it claims. I regularly need what it
offers.

THANK YOU developers!



Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web site.
I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and
slim down SeaMonkey.


Hi Ed!!! I trust very much your opinions and I consider you to be a trustful
elder here...
But shall I still be able to "insert" a "link" or a "picture" while composing an
e-mail using the
" Insert menu" if I get rid of "Composer"
Thanks in advance!!


works perfect
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/51.0 
SeaMonkey/2.48a2

Build identifier: 20160923081035




@lex




--
Gérard Vinkesteijn-Rudersdorff
http://ciudadpatricia.com
https://facebook.com/gerardjan.vinkesteijn.7

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/51.0 
SeaMonkey/2.48a2

Build identifier: 20160923081035

To code the impossible code,This is my quest --
To bring up a virgin machine,   To debug that code,
To pop out of endless recursion,No matter how hopeless,
To grok what appears on the screen, No matter the load,
To write those routines
To right the unrightable bug,   Without question or pause,
To endlessly twiddle and thrash,To be willing to hack FORTRAN IV
To mount the unmountable magtape,   For a heavenly cause.
To stop the unstoppable crash!  And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest,
And the queue will be better for this,  That my code will run CUSPy and calm,
That one man, scorned and   When it's put to the test.
destined to lose,
Still strove with his last allocation
To scrap the unscrappable kludge!
  -- To "The Impossible Dream", from Man of La Mancha
[gérard@gershwin] $
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Alex Beauroy]

On 15/11/2016 06:01, Ed Mullen wrote:

On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired off:

On 11/14/2016 1:28 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Stay with 2.48a2 or 2.48 for the time being. 2.49a2 and the soon the
be 2.50a1
will be very very unstable right now. There were several Mozilla last
minute
changes which need to be taken care of first. Worst is bug 1316104.


Just for the record.
I like stable releases!
I don't think there are any visible functional difference between the
features I actually used since the days of Netscape 4.x and my current
SeaMonkey 2.40 [Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/43.0 SeaMonkey/2.40]

I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They
probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


Umm, how could your experience improve if you don't notice it?



NEW is not, a priori, better.
E.G. More than a year ago there was talk of removing Composer due to it
not handling all of the "latest/greatest" {sic} features of HTML. That
would be a mistake. I does what it claims. I regularly need what it
offers.

THANK YOU developers!



Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web site.
I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and
slim down SeaMonkey.

Hi Ed!!! I trust very much your opinions and I consider you to be a 
trustful elder here...
But shall I still be able to "insert" a "link" or a "picture" while 
composing an e-mail using the

" Insert menu" if I get rid of "Composer"
Thanks in advance!!
Best Regards
@lex
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Gérard]

On 11/15/2016 09:22 AM, Daniel wrote:

On 15/11/2016 4:01 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired off:

On 11/14/2016 1:28 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:





Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web site.
I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and
slim down SeaMonkey.


FYI, I think part of the problem with getting rid of the outdated Composer is
that parts of it are still used for composing/displaying HTML formatted e-mails.

Now, if we could get rid of HTML formatted e-mails, ..!!



Yes, you are right !!!

--
Gérard Vinkesteijn-Rudersdorff
http://ciudadpatricia.com
https://facebook.com/gerardjan.vinkesteijn.7

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/51.0 
SeaMonkey/2.48a2

Build identifier: 20160923081035

To code the impossible code,This is my quest --
To bring up a virgin machine,   To debug that code,
To pop out of endless recursion,No matter how hopeless,
To grok what appears on the screen, No matter the load,
To write those routines
To right the unrightable bug,   Without question or pause,
To endlessly twiddle and thrash,To be willing to hack FORTRAN IV
To mount the unmountable magtape,   For a heavenly cause.
To stop the unstoppable crash!  And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest,
And the queue will be better for this,  That my code will run CUSPy and calm,
That one man, scorned and   When it's put to the test.
destined to lose,
Still strove with his last allocation
To scrap the unscrappable kludge!
  -- To "The Impossible Dream", from Man of La Mancha
[gérard@gershwin] $
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Daniel]

On 15/11/2016 4:01 PM, Ed Mullen wrote:

On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired off:

On 11/14/2016 1:28 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:





Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web site.
I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and
slim down SeaMonkey.

FYI, I think part of the problem with getting rid of the outdated 
Composer is that parts of it are still used for composing/displaying 
HTML formatted e-mails.


Now, if we could get rid of HTML formatted e-mails, ..!!

--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.40 Build identifier: 20160120202951

or
User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:41.0) Gecko/20100101 
SeaMonkey/2.38 Build identifier: 20150903203501

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Gérard]

On 11/15/2016 09:04 AM, Gérard wrote:

On 11/15/2016 08:47 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:


On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired
off:


I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They
probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


Umm, how could your experience improve if you don't notice it?


There are lots of situations where people don't consciously notice improved
experiences, but you can detect and measure it if you poll them before and
after. There's a big gray area between the kind of dramatic improvement that
gets your attention on the one hand and no change on the other hand.



the third world war has started (in the spirit)




--
Gérard Vinkesteijn-Rudersdorff
http://ciudadpatricia.com
https://facebook.com/gerardjan.vinkesteijn.7

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/51.0 
SeaMonkey/2.48a2

Build identifier: 20160923081035

To code the impossible code,This is my quest --
To bring up a virgin machine,   To debug that code,
To pop out of endless recursion,No matter how hopeless,
To grok what appears on the screen, No matter the load,
To write those routines
To right the unrightable bug,   Without question or pause,
To endlessly twiddle and thrash,To be willing to hack FORTRAN IV
To mount the unmountable magtape,   For a heavenly cause.
To stop the unstoppable crash!  And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest,
And the queue will be better for this,  That my code will run CUSPy and calm,
That one man, scorned and   When it's put to the test.
destined to lose,
Still strove with his last allocation
To scrap the unscrappable kludge!
  -- To "The Impossible Dream", from Man of La Mancha
[gérard@gershwin] $
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Gérard]

On 11/15/2016 08:47 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Ed Mullen wrote:


On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired
off:


I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They
probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


Umm, how could your experience improve if you don't notice it?


There are lots of situations where people don't consciously notice improved
experiences, but you can detect and measure it if you poll them before and
after. There's a big gray area between the kind of dramatic improvement that
gets your attention on the one hand and no change on the other hand.



the third world war has started (in the spirit)

--
Gérard Vinkesteijn-Rudersdorff
http://ciudadpatricia.com
https://facebook.com/gerardjan.vinkesteijn.7

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/51.0 
SeaMonkey/2.48a2

Build identifier: 20160923081035

To code the impossible code,This is my quest --
To bring up a virgin machine,   To debug that code,
To pop out of endless recursion,No matter how hopeless,
To grok what appears on the screen, No matter the load,
To write those routines
To right the unrightable bug,   Without question or pause,
To endlessly twiddle and thrash,To be willing to hack FORTRAN IV
To mount the unmountable magtape,   For a heavenly cause.
To stop the unstoppable crash!  And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest,
And the queue will be better for this,  That my code will run CUSPy and calm,
That one man, scorned and   When it's put to the test.
destined to lose,
Still strove with his last allocation
To scrap the unscrappable kludge!
  -- To "The Impossible Dream", from Man of La Mancha
[gérard@gershwin] $
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Ed Mullen wrote:


On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired
off:


I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They
probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


Umm, how could your experience improve if you don't notice it?


There are lots of situations where people don't consciously notice 
improved experiences, but you can detect and measure it if you poll them 
before and after. There's a big gray area between the kind of dramatic 
improvement that gets your attention on the one hand and no change on 
the other hand.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Ed Mullen]

On 11/15/2016 at 12:22 AM, J. Weaver Jr.'s prodigious digits fired off:

Ed Mullen wrote:

Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web site.
I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and
slim down SeaMonkey.


Hear hear! It's a large bundle of code with no modern purpose.  -JW



Yeah, geez, I just realized it's 2016!  Fer crying out loud!  Get rid of 
this terminally flawed useless piece of crap code.


Lemme see?  I want to create a Web page?  Options?  Does anyone 
immediately think:  "Oh, yeah!  Lemme get SeaMonkey and use Composer!


Not!

Get rid of it.  Obsolete.  Wrong.  Ancient.

Okay, going to bed now.

--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire  Department 
usually uses water.

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[J. Weaver Jr.]

Ed Mullen wrote:

Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.

Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web site.
I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.

Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and
slim down SeaMonkey.


Hear hear! It's a large bundle of code with no modern purpose.  -JW

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Ed Mullen]

On 11/14/2016 at 3:19 PM, Richard Owlett's prodigious digits fired off:

On 11/14/2016 1:28 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Stay with 2.48a2 or 2.48 for the time being. 2.49a2 and the soon the
be 2.50a1
will be very very unstable right now. There were several Mozilla last
minute
changes which need to be taken care of first. Worst is bug 1316104.


Just for the record.
I like stable releases!
I don't think there are any visible functional difference between the
features I actually used since the days of Netscape 4.x and my current
SeaMonkey 2.40 [Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/43.0 SeaMonkey/2.40]

I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They
probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


Umm, how could your experience improve if you don't notice it?



NEW is not, a priori, better.
E.G. More than a year ago there was talk of removing Composer due to it
not handling all of the "latest/greatest" {sic} features of HTML. That
would be a mistake. I does what it claims. I regularly need what it offers.

THANK YOU developers!



Composer should be dropped.  It is decades out of touch with HTML and 
CSS standards.  It produces totally crappy code that won't validate.


Yes, once upon a time, like 1996, I used Composer to create a Web site. 
I then, in Web terms, grew up, got wiser, learned.


Kill Composer.  It serves no useful valid purpose.  Rip the code out and 
slim down SeaMonkey.


--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Why do we drive on parkways and park on driveways?
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[sean]

Richard Owlett wrote:

On 11/14/2016 1:28 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:
Stay with 2.48a2 or 2.48 for the time being. 2.49a2 and the soon the 
be 2.50a1
will be very very unstable right now. There were several Mozilla last 
minute

changes which need to be taken care of first. Worst is bug 1316104.


Just for the record.
I like stable releases!
I don't think there are any visible functional difference between the 
features I actually used since the days of Netscape 4.x and my current 
SeaMonkey 2.40 [Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:43.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/43.0 SeaMonkey/2.40]


I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. They 
probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


NEW is not, a priori, better.
E.G. More than a year ago there was talk of removing Composer due to it 
not handling all of the "latest/greatest" {sic} features of HTML. That 
would be a mistake. I does what it claims. I regularly need what it offers.


THANK YOU developers!


As I mentioned earlier, I'm an old hat with development build... I have 
multiple redundant backups... so no worries... 2.49a1 is fast and 
zippy... unlike cludgey old 2.40...


Many thanks to the developers...

sean
--
The Purpose of life is to be happy.
   ~ Dalai Lama
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Richard Owlett]

On 11/14/2016 1:28 PM, Frank-Rainer Grahl wrote:

Stay with 2.48a2 or 2.48 for the time being. 2.49a2 and the soon the be 2.50a1
will be very very unstable right now. There were several Mozilla last minute
changes which need to be taken care of first. Worst is bug 1316104.


Just for the record.
I like stable releases!
I don't think there are any visible functional difference between 
the features I actually used since the days of Netscape 4.x and 
my current SeaMonkey 2.40 [Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 5.1; rv:43.0) 
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/43.0 SeaMonkey/2.40]


I do understand there are extensive changes behind the scene. 
They probably improve my experience without me noticing it.


NEW is not, a priori, better.
E.G. More than a year ago there was talk of removing Composer due 
to it not handling all of the "latest/greatest" {sic} features of 
HTML. That would be a mistake. I does what it claims. I regularly 
need what it offers.


THANK YOU developers!

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

For Lightning check if it is just disabled. If its missing find

extensions.installedDistroAddon.{e2fda1a4-762b-4020-b5ad-a41df1933103}

in your about:config and reset it. Should reappear magically after a 
restart.


That said 2.49a1+ is unstable and unusable right now. Problems are being 
worked on.


FRG

sean wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 11/14/2016 01:14 PM, sean wrote:

sean wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 11/14/2016 10:00 AM, Ray_Net wrote:

WaltS48 wrote on 14-11-16 01:44:

On 11/13/2016 07:23 PM, sean wrote:

decided to test out a newer build on a separate back up computer...
we'll see how this goes...

sean



Great timing! With the merges tomorrow, 2.50a1 should be out shortly
after.



And what about the 2.40 ? All developers prefer taking their time for
new gadgets ?

Or - it's better to wait for the 2.50 release ?



If you want to stay on the release channel, just wait for the next
update.

Versions with an a1 on the end of the version number are experimental
and may be unstable.


I'm rather weary of being on the release channel. Also weary of waiting
for the ubuntuzilla ppa to be updated some time after the releases. I
have enough triage capabilities under my belt to deal with instability.
I'm not going to reinstall lightning until after the release most
likely, I no longer use any other addons.

Main laptop today is getting SM 2.48a2 which was the newest I
managed to
find today.

sean



Well... color me stunned, Lightning is already automagically
installed with 2.48a2! yippee...

sean



I believe Firefox Developer tools may also be bundled.


managed to find the newer SM 2.49a1 a few moments ago... Lightning is
not bundled with this, guess it lands in build 2, 3 or 4...

sean


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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Frank-Rainer Grahl]

Stay with 2.48a2 or 2.48 for the time being. 2.49a2 and the soon the be 2.50a1 
will be very very unstable right now. There were several Mozilla last minute 
changes which need to be taken care of first. Worst is bug 1316104. 

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 11:14:48 -0700, sean wrote:

>>sean wrote:
>>> WaltS48 wrote:
 On 11/14/2016 10:00 AM, Ray_Net wrote:
> WaltS48 wrote on 14-11-16 01:44:
>> On 11/13/2016 07:23 PM, sean wrote:
>>> decided to test out a newer build on a separate back up computer...
>>> we'll see how this goes...
>>>
>>> sean
>>
>>
>> Great timing! With the merges tomorrow, 2.50a1 should be out shortly
>> after.
>>
>>
> And what about the 2.40 ? All developers prefer taking their time for
> new gadgets ?
>
> Or - it's better to wait for the 2.50 release ?


 If you want to stay on the release channel, just wait for the next
 update.

 Versions with an a1 on the end of the version number are experimental
 and may be unstable.
>>>
>>> I'm rather weary of being on the release channel. Also weary of waiting
>>> for the ubuntuzilla ppa to be updated some time after the releases. I
>>> have enough triage capabilities under my belt to deal with instability.
>>> I'm not going to reinstall lightning until after the release most
>>> likely, I no longer use any other addons.
>>>
>>> Main laptop today is getting SM 2.48a2 which was the newest I managed to
>>> find today.
>>>
>>> sean
>>
>>
>>Well... color me stunned, Lightning is already automagically installed 
>>with 2.48a2! yippee...
>>
>>sean
>>
>>-- 
>>The Purpose of life is to be happy.
>>~ Dalai Lama


 Regards
 Frank-Rainer Grahl


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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Gérard]

On 11/14/2016 07:41 PM, sean wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 11/14/2016 01:14 PM, sean wrote:

sean wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 11/14/2016 10:00 AM, Ray_Net wrote:

WaltS48 wrote on 14-11-16 01:44:

On 11/13/2016 07:23 PM, sean wrote:

decided to test out a newer build on a separate back up computer...
we'll see how this goes...

sean



Great timing! With the merges tomorrow, 2.50a1 should be out shortly
after.



And what about the 2.40 ? All developers prefer taking their time for
new gadgets ?

Or - it's better to wait for the 2.50 release ?



If you want to stay on the release channel, just wait for the next
update.

Versions with an a1 on the end of the version number are experimental
and may be unstable.


I'm rather weary of being on the release channel. Also weary of waiting
for the ubuntuzilla ppa to be updated some time after the releases. I
have enough triage capabilities under my belt to deal with instability.
I'm not going to reinstall lightning until after the release most
likely, I no longer use any other addons.

Main laptop today is getting SM 2.48a2 which was the newest I managed to
find today.

sean



Well... color me stunned, Lightning is already automagically installed with
2.48a2! yippee...

sean



I believe Firefox Developer tools may also be bundled.


managed to find the newer SM 2.49a1 a few moments ago... Lightning is not
bundled with this, guess it lands in build 2, 3 or 4...

sean


Dear Sean,
/What is the URL for SM2.49a1?/

--
Gérard Vinkesteijn-Rudersdorff
http://ciudadpatricia.com
https://facebook.com/gerardjan.vinkesteijn.7

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:51.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/51.0 
SeaMonkey/2.48a2

Build identifier: 20160923081035

To code the impossible code,This is my quest --
To bring up a virgin machine,   To debug that code,
To pop out of endless recursion,No matter how hopeless,
To grok what appears on the screen, No matter the load,
To write those routines
To right the unrightable bug,   Without question or pause,
To endlessly twiddle and thrash,To be willing to hack FORTRAN IV
To mount the unmountable magtape,   For a heavenly cause.
To stop the unstoppable crash!  And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest,
And the queue will be better for this,  That my code will run CUSPy and calm,
That one man, scorned and   When it's put to the test.
destined to lose,
Still strove with his last allocation
To scrap the unscrappable kludge!
  -- To "The Impossible Dream", from Man of La Mancha
[gérard@gershwin] $
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[sean]

WaltS48 wrote:

On 11/14/2016 01:14 PM, sean wrote:

sean wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 11/14/2016 10:00 AM, Ray_Net wrote:

WaltS48 wrote on 14-11-16 01:44:

On 11/13/2016 07:23 PM, sean wrote:

decided to test out a newer build on a separate back up computer...
we'll see how this goes...

sean



Great timing! With the merges tomorrow, 2.50a1 should be out shortly
after.



And what about the 2.40 ? All developers prefer taking their time for
new gadgets ?

Or - it's better to wait for the 2.50 release ?



If you want to stay on the release channel, just wait for the next
update.

Versions with an a1 on the end of the version number are experimental
and may be unstable.


I'm rather weary of being on the release channel. Also weary of waiting
for the ubuntuzilla ppa to be updated some time after the releases. I
have enough triage capabilities under my belt to deal with instability.
I'm not going to reinstall lightning until after the release most
likely, I no longer use any other addons.

Main laptop today is getting SM 2.48a2 which was the newest I managed to
find today.

sean



Well... color me stunned, Lightning is already automagically installed 
with 2.48a2! yippee...


sean



I believe Firefox Developer tools may also be bundled.


managed to find the newer SM 2.49a1 a few moments ago... Lightning is 
not bundled with this, guess it lands in build 2, 3 or 4...


sean
--
The Purpose of life is to be happy.
   ~ Dalai Lama
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[WaltS48]

On 11/14/2016 01:14 PM, sean wrote:

sean wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 11/14/2016 10:00 AM, Ray_Net wrote:

WaltS48 wrote on 14-11-16 01:44:

On 11/13/2016 07:23 PM, sean wrote:

decided to test out a newer build on a separate back up computer...
we'll see how this goes...

sean



Great timing! With the merges tomorrow, 2.50a1 should be out shortly
after.



And what about the 2.40 ? All developers prefer taking their time for
new gadgets ?

Or - it's better to wait for the 2.50 release ?



If you want to stay on the release channel, just wait for the next
update.

Versions with an a1 on the end of the version number are experimental
and may be unstable.


I'm rather weary of being on the release channel. Also weary of waiting
for the ubuntuzilla ppa to be updated some time after the releases. I
have enough triage capabilities under my belt to deal with instability.
I'm not going to reinstall lightning until after the release most
likely, I no longer use any other addons.

Main laptop today is getting SM 2.48a2 which was the newest I managed to
find today.

sean



Well... color me stunned, Lightning is already automagically installed 
with 2.48a2! yippee...


sean



I believe Firefox Developer tools may also be bundled.


--
Visit Pittsburgh 
Coexist 
National Popular Vote 
Ubuntu 16.04LTS

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[sean]

sean wrote:

WaltS48 wrote:

On 11/14/2016 10:00 AM, Ray_Net wrote:

WaltS48 wrote on 14-11-16 01:44:

On 11/13/2016 07:23 PM, sean wrote:

decided to test out a newer build on a separate back up computer...
we'll see how this goes...

sean



Great timing! With the merges tomorrow, 2.50a1 should be out shortly
after.



And what about the 2.40 ? All developers prefer taking their time for
new gadgets ?

Or - it's better to wait for the 2.50 release ?



If you want to stay on the release channel, just wait for the next
update.

Versions with an a1 on the end of the version number are experimental
and may be unstable.


I'm rather weary of being on the release channel. Also weary of waiting
for the ubuntuzilla ppa to be updated some time after the releases. I
have enough triage capabilities under my belt to deal with instability.
I'm not going to reinstall lightning until after the release most
likely, I no longer use any other addons.

Main laptop today is getting SM 2.48a2 which was the newest I managed to
find today.

sean



Well... color me stunned, Lightning is already automagically installed 
with 2.48a2! yippee...


sean

--
The Purpose of life is to be happy.
   ~ Dalai Lama
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[sean]

WaltS48 wrote:

On 11/14/2016 10:00 AM, Ray_Net wrote:

WaltS48 wrote on 14-11-16 01:44:

On 11/13/2016 07:23 PM, sean wrote:

decided to test out a newer build on a separate back up computer...
we'll see how this goes...

sean



Great timing! With the merges tomorrow, 2.50a1 should be out shortly
after.



And what about the 2.40 ? All developers prefer taking their time for
new gadgets ?

Or - it's better to wait for the 2.50 release ?



If you want to stay on the release channel, just wait for the next update.

Versions with an a1 on the end of the version number are experimental
and may be unstable.


I'm rather weary of being on the release channel. Also weary of waiting 
for the ubuntuzilla ppa to be updated some time after the releases. I 
have enough triage capabilities under my belt to deal with instability. 
I'm not going to reinstall lightning until after the release most 
likely, I no longer use any other addons.


Main laptop today is getting SM 2.48a2 which was the newest I managed to 
find today.


sean
--
The Purpose of life is to be happy. Dalai Lama
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[WaltS48]

On 11/14/2016 10:00 AM, Ray_Net wrote:

WaltS48 wrote on 14-11-16 01:44:

On 11/13/2016 07:23 PM, sean wrote:
decided to test out a newer build on a separate back up computer... 
we'll see how this goes...


sean



Great timing! With the merges tomorrow, 2.50a1 should be out shortly 
after.



And what about the 2.40 ? All developers prefer taking their time for 
new gadgets ?


Or - it's better to wait for the 2.50 release ?



If you want to stay on the release channel, just wait for the next update.

Versions with an a1 on the end of the version number are experimental 
and may be unstable.


--
Visit Pittsburgh 
Coexist 
National Popular Vote 
Ubuntu 16.04LTS

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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[Ray_Net]

WaltS48 wrote on 14-11-16 01:44:

On 11/13/2016 07:23 PM, sean wrote:
decided to test out a newer build on a separate back up computer... 
we'll see how this goes...


sean



Great timing! With the merges tomorrow, 2.50a1 should be out shortly 
after.



And what about the 2.40 ? All developers prefer taking their time for 
new gadgets ?


Or - it's better to wait for the 2.50 release ?
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Re: downloaded SM2.49a1

[WaltS48]

On 11/13/2016 07:23 PM, sean wrote:
decided to test out a newer build on a separate back up computer... 
we'll see how this goes...


sean



Great timing! With the merges tomorrow, 2.50a1 should be out shortly after.


--
Visit Pittsburgh 
Coexist 
National Popular Vote 
Ubuntu 16.04LTS

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downloaded SM2.49a1

[sean]

decided to test out a newer build on a separate back up computer... 
we'll see how this goes...


sean
--
The purpose of life is to be happy. ~ Dalai Lama
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