Re: [Sursound] how to read common loudspeaker format (CLF) file
Dear Bengt-Inge, Thanks a lot. Best regards, Junfeng On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Bengt-Inge Dalenbäck b...@catt.se wrote: Dear Junfeng At 01:20 2013-11-22, you wrote: Dear Martin, I sent one email to CLF group. Unfortunately, there is no any response. Therefore, I try to look for someone who have some experience in using CLF files. Junfeng, your mail was replied to Nov 11, the same day you requested the info, I assume it may have ended up in a spam folder, it was resent now. The CLF format is based on an input text format that when validated is saved as a binary distribution format, the reason it is not only a text format is to ensure data integrity and traceability. The distribution format is signed by the CLF author (typically the person/company that performed the measurement or the manufacturer) which means that anyone viewing a CLF distribution-file via the free viewer, and has a question about the data, can contact the author. The format also includes a way of adding special documentation as an embedded PDF-file. To avoid that data is directly created as binary, bypassing all validity checks, the binary format it is not made public on the web-site but anyone with a valid use (like here) can request the specification as indicated on the web-site. There are no costs involved in becoming an author or to receive the binary specification. Best, --- Bengt-Inge Dalenback / CATT For the Common Loudspeaker Format (CLF) group. http://www.clfgroup.org ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131122/ef09f5b2/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Hector bird recording - SoundCloud
Perhaps witchcraft needs some strange settings. For headhones - https://www.dropbox.com/s/iga71wluxfcb4i6/Untitled2.mp3 On 22/11/2013 14:21, dw wrote: On 21/11/2013 19:08, Aaron Heller wrote: I took the liberty of merging them into 4-channel files and putting them on my server, which might be easier to access than the skydive (the UI was in Japanese for me, fortunately I recognized the character for 'down') http://ambisonics.dreamhosters.com/01-Birds_WXYZ-110425_0119.wav http://ambisonics.dreamhosters.com/05-Music_WXYZ-110425_0127.wav They sound quite nice. In Harpex, you can clearly see the locations of the singers, percussion, and birds. Impressive! Thanks... Aaron (hel...@ai.sri.com) Menlo Park, CA US Is the W level correct? I am finding myself turning up my W knob 3-6dB relative to other recordings before it sounds good.. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] New Ambisonic VST Plugins
Yes - there basically aren't any problems applying the processing operations to material that is only first order. Feeding first order material to a third order decoder raises more subtle issues. If you're working with first order material, we'd normally recommend you still work at third order within Reaper, i.e. set all your track channel counts to 16. If you force first order by setting your channel counts to 4 then everything will work, but you won't save much CPU and you'll lose spatial accuracy in scenarios where intermediate processing uses second or third order components. When you get to your output stage, if there isn't any second or third order detail that you want, you can always export at first order by simply taking only the first four channels from the TOA mix. On decoding, I should start by saying we typically get good results feeding first order material directly into our third order decoders. We wondered about including an order switch here, and have done exactly that for the Rapture3D Advanced decoder plugins. However, for the normal TOA Decoding plugins we decided it would be better to focus on making everything work cleanly at third order, and encourage treatment of first order material if it's really needed (and IMHO it generally isn't) as folk are inevitably going to want to add first order recordings into third order mixes. There's a First Order Injector in the Upmixers library that provides a couple of such treatments, and an equivalent result can be achieved using the Order Amplifier and/or Diffuser plugins in the Manipulators library. These treatments don't attempt to sharpen the image. In contrast, you should also be able to upsample to third order using Svein's excellent HARPEX-B plugin, although the public version of that currently generates only horizontal components at third order (for compatibility with channel count limits in other hosts). That all said, first order material added directly to a third order mix and then decoded at third order is generally just blurrier or less sharp than real third order material (as one would expect!) but hopefully that's fine for most scenarios. Best wishes, --Richard -Original Message- From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Malham Sent: 22 November 2013 13:42 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: Re: [Sursound] New Ambisonic VST Plugins Shouldn't be any problems with any of the processing operations (Richard?) but the decoding will need to set at 1st order. Dave On 22 November 2013 07:40, Bo-Erik Sandholm bo-erik.sandh...@ericsson.comwrote: Hi Is there any technical problems in using third order processing with only first order data ? If I remember correctly it should not be a problem? Only the overhead of having 12 unused tracks in the reaper layout? Nice of you to promote Ambisonics by offering the basic plugins for free. Thank you Bo-Erik Sandholm Sweden -Original Message- From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of Richard Furse Sent: den 21 november 2013 14:14 To: Surround Sound discussion group Subject: [Sursound] New Ambisonic VST Plugins Hi there! In case folk aren't aware, the TOA (Third Order Ambisonic) VST plugins from Blue Ripple Sound have been released, along with some other bits and pieces. They are intended primarily for use with Reaper (Cubase/Nuendo currently can't host them). More details can be found at http://www.blueripplesound.com/story/new-toa-plugins. Best wishes, --Richard ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/201311 22/d895072c/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
[Sursound] 45J recordings - did they / do they exist?
Hi guys A thought just crossed my beleagered mind concerning 45J. From what i can see, it was around for quite a while, so the question is: are there any recording of interest in 45J? By the way, those with long memories will remember my interest in the BBC's Matrix H. Well i finally got around to working on decoding it, and it's finished. it's as accurate as is possible, and has phase correction etc. From the limited encoded material i have it sounds very good. I'm, planning on decoding releasing the BBC Matrix H LP within the next month or so. If there's interest here in finally hearing this decoded then i can make the torrent available here. Richard --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131122/3b112ce6/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] Hector bird recording - SoundCloud
Is the W level correct? I am finding myself turning up my W knob 3-6dB I'm tempted to agree. Of course it's difficult to be certain. From: dw d...@dwareing.plus.com To: sursound@music.vt.edu Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 6:21 AM Subject: Re: [Sursound] Hector bird recording - SoundCloud On 21/11/2013 19:08, Aaron Heller wrote: I took the liberty of merging them into 4-channel files and putting them on my server, which might be easier to access than the skydive (the UI was in Japanese for me, fortunately I recognized the character for 'down') http://ambisonics.dreamhosters.com/01-Birds_WXYZ-110425_0119.wav http://ambisonics.dreamhosters.com/05-Music_WXYZ-110425_0127.wav They sound quite nice. In Harpex, you can clearly see the locations of the singers, percussion, and birds. Impressive! Thanks... Aaron (hel...@ai.sri.com) Menlo Park, CA US Is the W level correct? I am finding myself turning up my W knob 3-6dB relative to other recordings before it sounds good.. ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131122/fb208b96/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] New Ambisonic VST Plugins
be found at http://www.blueripplesound.com/story/new-toa-plugins. Best wishes, --Richard ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University Dave Malham Honorary Fellow, Department of Music The University of York York YO10 5DD UK 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/201311 22/d895072c/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131122/0ef0c46f/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] New Ambisonic VST Plugins
On Fri, Nov 22, 2013 at 11:19:58AM -0800, Aaron Heller wrote: I hate to contradict you, but my experience playing my first-order recordings (e.g. Pulcinella, LvB 4th Sym, available on Ambisonia) on the 2nd or 3rd order presets in Ambdec results in decoding errors. The most obvious artifact is that frontal sources sound too close, sometimes right in front of my face. When using a 3rd order max rE decoder with 1st order input, the gain on the first order signals is too high. The error is around 2.3 dB for a 2D decoder, and 3.5 dB for 3D. In both cases the resulting decode is closer to systematic (rV = 1) than to max rE. For an in-phase decoder the errors are higher, around 5 dB for 3D. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] New Ambisonic VST Plugins
At 18:12 22-11-13, Richard Furse wrote: Yes - there basically aren't any problems applying the processing operations to material that is only first order. Feeding first order material to a third order decoder raises more subtle issues. I have obviously missed something. How does one record in third order (or indeed any order above first order)? What kind of microphone array does one need, for instance, for 3rd order with no height information (WXYUVPQ)? Is there a native format method for HOA or is it all extended A format, with conversion through matrices? David ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] New Ambisonic VST Plugins
I'll jump in to add... the TOA plugins set provides a wide variety of very powerful tools. Is great to see BlueRipple has now made these available. If you've heard it mentioned that something is possible with Ambisonics, TOA likely includes it... ... and with a pretty GUI! My best, Joseph Anderson j.ander...@ambisonictoolkit.net http://www.ambisonictoolkit.net On 22 Nov 2013, at 6:38 am, John Leonard j...@johnleonard.co.uk wrote: I've been trying these out and they're extremely good. Highly recommended. John On 21 Nov 2013, at 13:14, Richard Furse rich...@muse440.com wrote: Hi there! In case folk aren't aware, the TOA (Third Order Ambisonic) VST plugins from Blue Ripple Sound have been released, along with some other bits and pieces. They are intended primarily for use with Reaper (Cubase/Nuendo currently can't host them). More details can be found at http://www.blueripplesound.com/story/new-toa-plugins. Best wishes, --Richard ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131122/99852949/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] New Ambisonic VST Plugins
David Pickett d...@fugato.com wrote: How does one record in third order (or indeed any order above first order)? What kind of microphone array does one need, for instance, for 3rd order with no height information (WXYUVPQ)? Is there a native format method for HOA or is it all extended A format, with conversion through matrices? All excellent questions. It is not quite as obvious how to record any order of Ambisonics above first order. It will require some sort of microphone array and post-processing. One of my favorites is the array described by Craven, Lawe and Travis in: Microphone arrays using tangential velocity sensors P.G. Craven, C. Travis, M.J. Law We introduce a new class of 3D microphone arrays that use symmetrical arrangements of tangential velocity sensors. Use of velocity sensors allows these arrays to recover spherical harmonics of a given degree with less low-frequency boost than when using pressure sensors only. As an example we present a symmetrical array of twelve velocity sensors that resolves the eight harmonics of degrees 1 and 2. A second-order spherical microphone can now be constructed by combining this array with one or more pressure sensors that provide the missing harmonic of degree 0. http://ambisonics.iem.at/symposium2009/proceedings/ambisym09-craventravis-tangentialsphmic.pdf/at_download/file The other practical method for constructing an array that produces higher order spherical harmonic outputs is to use a group of omnidirectional microphones on a sphere, such as the commercially available Eigenmike: http://www.mhacoustics.com/products There are other methods. It's still early days for this technology. Eric Benjamin -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131122/1436acf9/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
Re: [Sursound] New Ambisonic VST Plugins
�David Pickett d...@fugato.com�wrote: How does one record in third order (or indeed any order above first order)?�� What kind of microphone array does one need, for instance, for 3rd order with no height information (WXYUVPQ)?� Is there a native format method for HOA or is it all extended A format, with conversion through matrices? I don't dispute Eric's very short, but very full summary but I think we may be at cross purposes. Richard Furse's software obviously works with a higher order microphone (if anyone has one) but I would suggest his primary motivation was for synthesised higher order soundfields. You can obviously create a synthetic soundfield of any order you want. Michael All excellent questions. �It is not quite as obvious how to record any order of Ambisonics above first order. �It will require some sort of microphone array and post-processing. �One of my favorites is the array described by Craven, Lawe and Travis in: Microphone arrays using tangential velocity sensors P.G. Craven, C. Travis, M.J. Law We introduce a new class of 3D microphone arrays that use symmetrical arrangements of tangential velocity sensors.� Use of velocity sensors allows these arrays to recover spherical harmonics of a given degree with less low-frequency boost than when using pressure sensors only.� As an example we present a symmetrical array of twelve velocity sensors that resolves the eight harmonics of degrees 1 and 2.� A second-order spherical microphone can now be constructed by combining this array with one or more pressure sensors that provide the missing harmonic of degree 0. http://ambisonics.iem.at/symposium2009/proceedings/ambisym09-craventravis-tangentialsphmic.pdf/at_download/file The other practical method for constructing an array that produces higher order spherical harmonic outputs is to use a group of omnidirectional microphones on a sphere, such as the commercially available Eigenmike: http://www.mhacoustics.com/products There are other methods. �It's still early days for this technology. Eric Benjamin -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/attachments/20131122/1436acf9/attachment.html ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound ___ Sursound mailing list Sursound@music.vt.edu https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound
